One thing we can all agree on, is the importance of high quality sleep and blood work, so I chose todays sponsors accordingly: 🛌 Use my Eight Sleep code "MPMD" for $200 off the Pod 4, or $350 off the Pod 4 Ultra: www.eightsleep.com/moreplatesmoredates/ ⚕ Use code "MPMD" to get 10% off my go-to "Complete Panel" blood test, with a lab review included to interpret the results: marekhealth.com/mpmd Feels good to be back. More podcasts and videos incoming! ------------ 🕑 Time Stamps: 0:00:00 - 0:00:50 - Introduction 0:00:50 - 0:05:32 - Why Paul Saladino Stopped The Carnivore Diet After 2 Years 0:05:32 - 0:08:41 - Is There Ever A Point Of Doing A Keto Diet? 0:08:41 - 0:11:21 - Why Paul Reached Out To Me To Do A Second Podcast After Seeing Me Speak With Peter Attia 0:11:21 - 0:17:36 - What Actually Causes Atherosclerosis? Paul’s Take On The Traditional Hypothesis 0:17:36 - 0:22:17 - Should We Ignore High LDL-C Or APOB? 0:22:17 - 0:25:05 - Paul Describes How Some Studies Suggest That Those With Higher HDL-C Levels May Be Less Likely To Get Atherosclerosis Despite Having High LDL-C Levels 0:25:05 - 0:25:26 - Paul’s Perspective On Why Many Doctors Aren’t Educating Their Patients About Metabolic Health 0:25:26 - 0:33:41 - "Ignore Nutrition Just Focus On Exercise" 0:33:41 - 0:37:55 - Sponsor: Eight Sleep 0:37:55 - 0:39:02 - The Most Important Lab Tests For Avoiding Atherosclerosis 0:39:02 - 0:42:53 - Is It Possible To Get Atherosclerosis If You Have A Fasting Insulin Of 3 uIU/mL Or Less? 0:42:53 - 0:46:27 - Familial Hypercholesterolemia (FH) And Why It’s A Phenotypic Diagnosis, Not A Genotypic Diagnosis 0:46:27 - 0:49:41 - What Happens When You Replace Saturated Fat With Linoleic Acid? 0:49:41 - 0:52:38 - How A Pure Carnivore Diet Affects Thyroid Metabolism 0:52:38 - 0:56:45 - Can Someone On A Keto Diet Long-Term Develop Atherosclerosis Despite Having A Low Fasting Insulin? Dave Feldman’s Lean Mass Hyper-Responder Study 0:56:45 - 1:00:56 - How Paul’s Perspective Differs From Dave Feldman and Shawn Baker • The Baseline Data From The LMHR Study Paul Mentioned: twitter.com/realDaveFeldman/status/1733387107610063195 1:00:56 - 1:03:55 - What Is APOB And LP(a)? 1:03:55 - 1:06:44 - Sponsor: Marek Health 1:06:44 - 1:10:21 - How Long It Takes For Plaque To Develop And Show On A CT Angiogram 1:10:21 - 1:13:46 - Why Paul Uses Proxy Biomarkers In Atherosclerosis Data Analysis To Discern Insulin Sensitivity 1:13:46 - 1:18:14 - Does Paul Think It Is Ever Justified To Take Lipid Lowering Medication To Avoid Atherosclerosis? 1:18:14 - 1:20:13 - How Should You Track If You Are Developing Atherosclerosis? 1:20:13 - 1:45:27 - Lipid Lowering Medication Risk-Reward Analysis. Will Lowering LDL-C Impair Quality Of Life, Regardless Of The Medication Used? Do Adolescents With Hypofunctioning PCSK9 And Very Low APOB Have Impaired Development Cognitively Or Structurally? 1:45:27 - 1:47:39 - If You Don’t Lower APOB But Want To Track Plaque Accumulation, Is The Dose Of Radiation From A CT Angiogram Concerning? 1:47:39 - 1:56:45 -Why Certain Tribes Have Lower Rates Of Cardiovascular Disease Than The Average Person. Should Or Shouldn’t We Copy What They’re Doing? 1:56:45 - 2:16:17 - The Lowest Hanging Fruit For Avoiding Atherosclerosis And Evaluating Your Risk ------------
You do not need any high tech device for great quality sleep lol. Do not buy this. Focus on what we have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years- not this bs
It was a good convo. Remember Socrates said there is nothing better than leaving a conversation having been refuted. I won’t go as far to say you were refuted but I think derek did raise a lot of good points objections and this can only make you grow more, as you mentioned. Appreciate you mate, feeling great on animal based :)
@@connorgray2896 I was actually surprised at the end when Derek dicussed a possible scenario of a perfectly healthy individual with high ApoB and supplementing with the latest and greatest lipid-lowering drugs. I think the obvious refute would be: 1. A healthy individual should always strive to avoid pharmaceutical drugs. All drugs have side effects, and if ApoB alone is bothering you, add some carbs to lower it. No need for drugs. The mere thought of taking drugs as part of a healthy lifestyle is distorted. 2. Many of these lipid-lowering drug outcomes only mention CVD mortality and fail to mention all-cause mortality. The reason being they don’t improve it. So you’re less likely to die of a heart attack talking these drugs, but you’d still die at the same predicted age from something else. These drugs do not work as most people think. 3. The lipid guidelines, the drug RCT’s and outcomes are of course all sponsored by big pharma, and you should be very wary of that. You cannot trust the reported data as-is.
Derek really asks great questions. Even tho i don't agree fully with stuff u say Paul (i disagree with quite some), I think u can have very high quality debates defending your points and i don't think your opinion is as contraversal as a diet that u do acording to that opinion. Even tho you are contraversial figure, I dont see you even near the pseudoscientific team foil, where some people try to fit u. I think u should do less influencer type of content where you sometimes sound pseudoscientific and do more of long debates and videos like this one. Great work both of you💪💪
@@gggXIIIHe's not controversial, he is promoting a balanced, non-extreme and sustainable diet that excludes all processed and harmful foods. He is exposing that sugar is not bad for you, while at the same time emphasizing that meat and animal foods are the healthiest and most nutritious. In other words, he's not joining one of the diet cults - the system wants the cults to argue with each other forever and never reach the truth. IMO Paul it near the truth and so he's being labeled controversial to throw the peasants off the scent.
Derek, please start hosting debates. It is the only way people that disagree but cannot sit down to talk can do it. The respect they have for you makes it doable
So, uh, in practical use let me see if I got this right: 1.) Don't be overweight 2.) Do cardiovascular exercise and lift weights 3.) avoid excess processed sugar 4.) eat a varied diet that doesn't completely eliminate any macro or micro. 5.) Past a certain age get a test from doctor to see how much plaque you got going on. Did I leave anything out?
@@blackpalacemusicplant based? Bro have you not been tuning into Paul or Derek😭? That’s one of the least efficient ways to do anything you’re gonna need to supplement, also bioavailability is a lot lower on a plant based diet
Heart health is one thing with this diet, but Kidney and liver health is also what I’m looking at. Whatever is the best diet for my organs is what im doing. Whether fruit+meat, or mediterranean, idc, I just don’t want to die for a dumb reason
This is why Paul is outspoken about the benefits of insulin and what the spikes actually do for your kidney function. Keto and carnivore people skip and bullshit this factual information from Paul
@@redpillthinking6043 not by much that is a fact, so much more subdued than an actual carbohydrate of which his choices of raw milk and fruit are so ridiculously low on the spectrum I’m amazed he gets so much flack
While I appreciate Saladino promoting some of the bioenergetic ideas it would be nice to see someone at Mikes level of understanding explaining why carbs can be very important. Saladino doesn't seem to be operating at a high level of understanding on the subject.
@@Louis-qo7tf Fiber is indigestible. Veggies have non-ideal forms of many nutrients that the body often can't deal with so easily compared to the animal food counterparts. There are also at times anti-nutrients and oxalates. Grains cause alot of people issues including Paul. But if they work for you, then by all means (grains).
@@4DTravelr fibers is great for digestion, good bacteria’s eat fibers therefore your gut is healthy. It also slow down digestion, there lowers blood sugars spikes
I'm getting info from this so this isn't a dig on it as a whole, but it seemed hard to follow because you and Paul bounced around trying to find common ground in different areas. The conversation in general had a back and forth feel to it. Did you both have an outline for the show? If you need someone to Google info on the side during podcasts I could be available. Regardless, love what you do here and for doing the Marek thing. I love that Paul keeps trying. We need people to be fringe to find the limits of what we know so we can gather more info and make more informed decisions in the future. Cheers!
True but I do feel the very last segment of the podcast was kind of a saving grace after they got off that specific back n forth and had time to process what the other person was trying to get it at they were able to tie it together a lot better, hope every one watches the whole thing and doesn't miss that part. At the end of the day we just need way more conversations held with both sides of the community, that's one thing I respect about Paul he has always tried/is willing to talk to anyone on air about the topic. Really wish Peter Attia would agree to do a show with both him and Derek so there isn't this kind of proxy debate where its hard to get super granular because of not knowing every little detail about what the other person actually believes/advocates for. That's the best outcome for us the viewers who just want to learn.
I will never understand what's controversial about eating fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Diets like carnivore completely miss one of the biggest advantages humans have - we're opportunistic eaters. Not saying you should eat twinkies, but cavemen probably would kill (you) for them.
Well, I think Joe Rogan, Paul, and others have said that they have immune issues. Most people don't have issues eating rice or bread, for that matter. This helps a lot of people who have food allergies would be my opinion. I think people saw that it helps with fat loss, and people went on making careers out of it (liver king). Even Derek eats meat with carbs
@@iiam2214 My issue with any 'fad diet' is the key component that they all use to promote weight loss is almost always cutting out junk food. If you're allergic to say, rice or grain, or whatever, that's a valid reason. It's when people who say they're on the keto diet, ignore that it's made as a treatment for children with epilepsy, where the kids will literally drink heavy cream as part of their dinner, and instead cut out junk food.
@@iiam2214 here was my experience. I struggled with my weight my entire life and it ruined my childhood and school/college years. When I stopped eating carbs and all the weight just fell off, without even exercising, it was easy to justify thinking carbs were the enemy.
Derek- Ridiculous playing up the fears of CVD to justify drugs that have little to no absolute risk reduction in association studies and no longevity benefit- look at the longevity study by southern Denmark university that took the Kaplan myer plots of 11 major statin studies - LDL is not causal in atherosclerosis ; it is more likely a response; including LPa being the first response. There would be no level low enough that would not bring LDL to an injury. The statin studies are adjusted just enough that they show benefit. If LDL were the cause, the entire lumen would develop plaque in both arteries and veins. There is no way around this - no numbers of LDL are a problem. In the genetic hypercholesterolemia, everyone seems to just look at a single function of that disorder and not what else is wrong ( maybe signaling etc).
I don't have a fear of death, but at the same time, I'm not trying to speed up the process. Accepting the fact that death is simply part of life, its not so bad. Focus on living rather than the inevitable outcome. Take care of yourself and your loved ones and just enjoy the process as best you can. That's my outlook at any rate. Cheers!
Thanks for the pod! Love both you guys, learn so much all the time. Great to hear from someone whose continually growing in their views and beliefs. It’s on the listeners to evaluate and discern what would work best for themselves, in their own life. Dude is just talking about his journey and how his beliefs have evolved, he’s not responsible for your own choices.
Save yourself some time: Derek believes that leveraging pharma in addition to a healthy lifestyle is worth the potential side effect profile, Paul does not.
If anyone is curious on the Tsimane diet, from the study: An estimated 14% of their average caloric diet is protein, 14% is fat, and 72% is carbohydrate. Meat protein and fat are acquired by hunting with guns and bow and arrow, or fresh water fishing with arrows, hook and line, or nets. Non-processed carbohydrates are grown in the form of rice, plantain, manioc, and corn via slash-and-burn horticulture, and the Tsimane also gather wild nuts and fruits. Importantly, carbohydrates are high in fibre and very low in saturated fat and simple sugars, which might further explain our study findings. The Tsimane diet lacks trans fats, and is a low fat diet, with an average estimated daily consumption of 38 g fat, with 11 g saturated fat, 14 g monounsaturated fat, and 8 g polyunsaturated fat.
@@Superulterathis should be top comment. I get that he’s smart and all that, but usually when you are speaking to a broad audience; it’s best to dumb things down. He’s speaking like a lawyer. Jelking to big words.
I find these fad diets like carnivore or vegan or keto absolutely ridiculous. Truth is, the standard American diet is so bad, that any of these fad diets will be an improvement. However, earlier generations could live perfectly healthy by combining meat with veggies , carbs with fat, etc just find the balance and eat less and do sports. There is no need to deprive onself from anything as long as its with moderation
Vegan diet isn’t a fad diet, it’s a philosophical approach to an eating pattern, there is no one vegan diet or pattern. But other than that I do also dislike the fad diet approach to carnivore and keto and find it dangerous
I'm just going to throw this out there and say it. If someone uses a lot of "big" words, a lot of industry words (combo with the big words), talks fast, and at the end of a 2 hour conversation you still don't understand the claim or what's going on... you're probably being scammed. Or at the very least, you should be very skeptical of them. Or a combination of both.
99% of people that cannot or choose not express their ideas in simple ways should be looked at with scrutiny. The last 1% are just the super autismo geniuses.
I agree 1000%. The guy says about 500 words a second, and uses so many abbreviations and complex phrases it’s hard to keep track of him. At least to the average person. I feel like he keeps moving at an insane pace, so no one can actually follow what he is saying.
If Derek thinks that there’s enough talk about diet, just not true man. It’s typical bs like “all in moderation” “calories” pointless shit, not including seed oils, etc. Not getting into the specifics, DOES make you an enemy to the truth. Because ur speaking on what you just do not understand, or you would take seed oils more seriously and speak on them, preservatives, etc. Foh with this biased from Derek.
➡ I've been listening to Attia, MPMD, Huberman, Shawn Baker, Saladino, Anthony Chaffe, David Sinclair, Rhonda Patrick, Thomas Delauer for years and years and probably spent the same amount of time as what it takes to complete a PhD myself. And my conclusion is: It's probably better to just do what makes you feel good because trying to strive for following any advice out there will 15 hours later be totally unvalidated by someone else's claims, referring to a completely opposite study. I also want to comment that it's hard in these times and ages to believe in studies that are heavily or even completely payed off by food and drug companies, which sadly seem to be almost every single one of the larger ones. This topic is probably one of the hardest one to solve since it involves trust in pharmaceutical industry with its 2022 worth in the US were about $846.72 Billion
@@OptiRaz invalidated*** but hey I bet if you asked a heroin addict how they felt after shooting up they’d tell you they’ve never felt better…obviously an extreme example but maybe it illustrates that just because something makes you feel good doesn’t mean it’s good for you or your longevity.
@@Stank_Tank you do you. I rather use my senses and feel what feels good rather than following something that doesn’t make me feel good but according to some studies say people live 5 years longer
@@OptiRaz many studies. Just about every study done on the topic. And what if it was more than 5 years? And what if the last 10 years of your life you feel like absolute shit because your arteries are clogged up and you can’t do anything? Poor cardiovascular health is one of the leading causes of death. Just saying that maybe there’s a happy medium where people can still feel great and also increase lifespan/health span.
@@Stank_Tank for me it’s easy to understand that I should avoid leafy greens and fiber rich vegetables as my gut and digestive tract gets fked up. Tried everything on this earth suggested by several so called experts in their field. Been vegan for 1 year, vegetarian for another year. Tried bodybuilding style with rice, chicken and vegetables. Tried keto with measuring my blood sugar and ketones several times a day to make sure. The only thing that ever made a huge difference was to cut out vegetables and fiber. Clogging up arteries.. I can hear what studies you’ve been listening to and there’s really not much to talk about here, it seems you are not open to see that the studies suggesting that arteries clog from meat are not made on people eating solely meat but rather meat with bread, alcohol and sugars. No studies has yet been made on 100% carnivores so you can’t say yes or no anyways. That’s why, go on your gut feeling and instincts - it tells you exactly what you need if you just get integrated with your body and stop being all focused with your thoughts and brain in to studies.
@@OptiRaz no study has been conducted that concludes that high cholesterol (ApoB in particular) isn’t a risk factor. In every instance, reducing it will reduce risk of CV events. I understand that no study has been conducted on pure carnivores that support people like Saladino’s claims. And until someone puts their money where their mouth is and funds such studies, you shouldn’t make health recommendations based on unfounded claims. And multiple studies need to be done on the subject to make those claims with high degrees of confidence. This is coming from someone who loves and eats red meat. And again, just because something makes you feel good right now, doesn’t mean that it won’t kill you or complicate your health 20 years down the road. I know you’ll do it whatever you want, just understand that it’s irresponsible to make dietary and health recommendations based on anecdotal evidence alone.
We’ve been prescribing statins for 20 years en mass - and CVD is still going up. I’m a pharmacist and know the science fairly well but just that fact alone tells you that the lipid model of CVD is at the very least incomplete and probably wrong.
Not remotely .! And if u were you’d know that Focusing on keeping LDL oxidation as low as possible -> oxidative stress is main contributing factor to plaque formation. Which is the driver of arterial sclerosis
@@TheAbsoluteSir go back and look at the percentage of people that have high vs normal LDL and have cardiac events. And then look at the most recent data around statin effectiveness along with the relationship to dementia after long term use. Educate yourself instead of just believing what ur told by big pharma or some random dude on the RU-vid.
@@TheAbsoluteSir WHEN THINGS GET WORSE, THAT MEANS IT WORKS! ok bozo. Also the trend in people doing physical activity has actually risen over the past two decades.
A little disappointed in the last half of the podcast where Derek literally asked a question, let Paul say three words and then interjected, for like 30 minutes straight. Very frustrating to watch. So I'll monologue in this comment to make up for it. My dad got put on repatha as a "compromise" with his cardiologist for not wanting to take a statin. What he got in return was a marginal lowering of LDL, a post surgical joint infection, his first ever UTI, immediate cognitive issues/ dementia, and diabetes. I finally convinced him to go off and his a1c dropped an entire point in a matter of months. And his LDL is THANKFULLY back up to what his body physiologically prefers at 80 years old of 170 ish. I think the point you are entirely missing Derek is that LDL has a vital role in the body, especially as we age. I have zero doubt that the infections my father experienced had everything to do with artificially lowering a molecule that helps fight infection as one example of its functions. Lots of studies to show that the elderly with higher LDL live longer. Why are you ignoring this? My father could have died from sepsis from the UTI but thankfully it did not progress to that level. Lowering LDL leaves people susceptible to all kinds of issues including infection, cognitive issues, and diabetes.. diabetes LITERALLY being a precursor to heart disease, what you are apparently trying to prevent at all costs ignoring any other factors. You're not looking at the big picture. I don't get it. Our bodies are not stupid and cholesterol lowering medications are not benign vitamins for "just in case."
How do these people internally deal with the fact that they evangelized a diet they were CERTAIN were right, and convinced others to go on them, just to then drop the diet themselves?
@@graychev Shouldn't that be a sign to not evangelize any system at any stage when it comes to personal health though? We could always be presented with new evidence..
Live and learn. I commend him for paying attention to his body and what it needs and changing his mind. Everyone needs to be this way. Rigidity does not serve us
Well going carnivore is definitely not one bad thing to evangelize... Ideally if he stopped working out so much being always on carnivore he'd be perfect
This is one of the best examples of a constructive, healthy, respectful debate/discussion. It’s also one of the most meaningful discussions for people living - or trying to live - in 2024.
When I saw saladino had a smoothie named after him at Erewhon I was like shit. He’s more famous than I thought. I do feel great on his diet though. I did add in the “grey area” rice though and loving it the last couple of days. Feeling a lot stronger in BJJ.
LDL - Low Density Lipoprotiens (carry triglyceride and cholesterol to peripheral tissues from the liver) HDL- Carries cholesterol from peripheral tissues to the liver. (Not a risk factor for heart disease) ApoB - There are multiple different types of LDL lipoproteins all of which contain apoB(the protien bit) cholesterol or triglycerides would be the “lipo” bit of lipoprotein. The theory is that not all LDL Carries the same atherogenicity(plaque causing) But since all LDL contains apob it’s just a better way to measure all of the atherogenic particles compared to just getting an LDL-C (cholesterol) measurement. As for the types of LDL: you have vLDL, iDL, lpa Paul’s argument is that lifestyle changes are good enough to mitigate risk and that apoB (while being a risk factor) is not significant enough to hop on meds for when all other lifestyle changes are accounted for. As for Derek, he is more in the middle ground. Meds if outcomes are better vice versa. I think….This stuff can be tough to grasp honestly.
Apo B100 is the protein tag that is on VLDL, IDL, and LDL that allows it to be detected as such. HDL has an Apo A1 tag which distinguishes it. VLDL drops of triglycerides and becomes IDL then LDL.
I still don’t understand how any fully grown adult can honestly be convinced they cracked the code in ≤2 years of experimenting with any kind of specific diet
Salidino is overhated his diet made me realise the reason i had gut and poopy di scoop issues may been due to plants, spices and seed oils (i was told just eat more fibre even though it made it worse) also adding organs like liver and eating more butter made me feel better
Changed my life too man no more ibs chronic pain brain fog crp was 6 now it’s less then 1 no more asthma lost 100 pounds and am pretty fucking jacked now
Fellow provider here, I have to disagree with the thyroid dysfunction or lowered t3 being an issue especially if TSH is normal. Almost all thyroid issues, chronic or acute, will affect the TSH in some way. Secondly you would have to check t4 and THR as well and have some type of symptoms manifest to fully conclude if it’s an issue that is negatively affected us as oppose to a normal physiologic compensation.
My libido is much better on strict carnivore. My testosterone went from mid 300s to 900 after 2 years of carnivore and my free test was around 200. So carbs can't be the only thing to increase your libido
So frustrating to see the agenda against Paul across comments all over RU-vid. He has arrived at the truth of a balanced, animal-based diet of healthy unprocesses foods. No veggies, yes fruit, honey, raw dairy, meat (raw even better), and organs. He is over the target so the system is trying to make him look bad. None of thes extreme diets others promote are the answer. Notice the system loved Paul when he was carnivore lol.
"muh dude you do not realize that you need balance and moderate diet" why? By that logic cows also need balance diet that incorporated organ meat for example.
Atherosclerosis starts with lesions on the walls of arteries. Inflammation, poor metabolic health are probably main causes to this dysfunction . HBP, diabetes , insulin issues all are major contributors causing endothelial damage …. It seems focusing or treating the causes of the lesions is ideal to long term health. The body repairs lesions using cholesterol. The focus ( fundamentally) has been on ldl levels , higher being bad. I’ve yet to see an explanation that if you have a lesion , the person with an ldl of 150, vs 70, would send more cholesterol to the lesion for repair ( causing more “clogging”) vs the person ldl of 70? Thus the idea that “lower” = less clogging….. one would think the body sends just enough to repair the lesion whether the ldl was 150 or 70 ( or aboB being higher versus lower ). The idea that lowering ldl (apob) via pharmaceuticals stops/minimizes the repair of lesions ( microtears) formation and thus the level of “clogging” due to other causes of inflammation seems confusing. In a perfect world with no endothelial damage , does it even matter what your ldl level is ?
Risk factors for heart disease are smoking, drinking, saturated fat, trans fats, refined sugar etc. they damage the tight junctions of the endothelial cell wall in your arteries. This is because they are inflammatory products. Once the tight junctions are permeable then the body has endothelial dysfunction. However the nail in the coffin IS, exogenous LDL particles, the more you eat the more likely they are to oxidise within your arterial wall. Once they are trapped they never get out. Macrophages see them as foreign bodies and engulf the lipids, they begin to expand as foam cells until they finally explode. The internal lipids are further spread, more macrophages then arrive and see more foreign oxidise bodies and the cycle continues trying to engulf them. These lipids continue to become trapped unless you reduce the exogenous intake. Calcium and phosphates in the blood harden theses lipids and that is what atherosclerosis is, our number one killer. So there are risk factors like smoking etc etc but NO LDL DOES CAUSE HEART DISEASE, it is the number one critical risk factor. To answer your question though, you will still have atherosclerosis from high exogenous LDL, even without the risk factors, the critical risk factor is LDL
Our body produces its own cholesterol and we don’t need consume exogenous cholesterol to meet our needs. This is why carnivore is a fad and whole food plant based diets are not, a nutritionally complete plant based diet will always have better health outcomes than omnivores and especially carnivores assuming it’s whole foods and all macro and micro nutrients including amino acids are accounted for, high fibre, more variety, lower rates of cancer, heart disease and diabetes etc
@@LozwaveOur body produces its own carbohydrates and we don't need to consume exogenous carbohydrates to meet our needs. This is why modern agricultural diets are a meme and our ancestral dietary niche of carnivory is not. A meat based diet is nutritionally complete whilst plant based diets are lacking, thus why the majority those who try veganism quit in a couple years with the majority of those who quit citing health problems as the reason. More fiber is just more poo and gas, the rest are associative memes that don't even include carnivorous cohorts, not to mention the lack of scientific rigour in these associative studies
Good interview. I respect Paul's ability to interpret studies and share his knowledge about his health journey. People should be willing to put the time and effort into understanding their own personal health.
@@jkeller2129 Saladino doesn’t have much beyond seed oil fear mongering. Data doesn’t back up his claims that seed oils are satan, cholesterol scores be damned. And before you get going on studies being funded by big sugar, does big ag not have financial incentives? Are the butter manufacturers above skewing studies to help sales?
Derek came across to me as nit-picky and pointed in his questioning. Really good conversation between two highly-informed individuals but not sure why Derek is so pushy on certain things. Paul isn’t the knower of all and I appreciate whenever he straight up admits; “I don’t know!”. He is authentic and unapologetically passionate about what he believes. Probably also why he speaks so fast. His brain is like on crack with all this information. My practical takeaway: “YOU will be your best investigator into what you need to be the healthiest you possible in this life. Pay attention to how you feel first, look second, then think about digging into your bloodwork and hormonal profile and beyond. It’s pretty clear that Paul believes in the power of what humans can do for themselves naturally. Nothing wrong with the notion that drug intervention should be the exception, not the rule. Thanks for the conversation Derek and Paul!
Derek was being a little nit- picky but for a good reason, Paul is going against mountains of evidence especially on overblowing the side effects of modern Lipid lowering drugs. Derek's whole point was trying to understand why Paul thinks that lowering your apob with modern drugs is not worth it even though all the data points in the direction that it lowers your mortality and has very little side effects. Saladino did not answer the question or site studys on exactly how it is actually bad to lower apob which made derek ask it over and over again.
I did keto for about 4 years straight in 2018 to reverse fatty liver and gallbladder issues and it worked I was 38 years at the time. I had blood work done every 3 months. I worked out about 6 times a week and did sauna. The only issue I had with keto was that you tend to get too skinny in the face but the only time in my life I had a 6 pack. You get the sunken face look which doesn't look attractive. The weird thing was I didn't lose my strength I was 210 before keto and dropped down to 180 and still pushing the same weight which was awesome and my stamina was way up. I no longer do keto but thinking of doing it again for sure.
I did not feel any of the side of effects I actually felt the heathiest I ever felt. I wasn't doing hardcore carnivore diet I did eat fruit and vegetable and the fruits and vegetables I ate were the ones recommended by this book called "The Liver and Gallbladder Miracle Cleanse". That was my guide before all the keto hype.
The standard American diet is full of seed oils, and most of MD influencers don't think that is a problem and only advise to "eath healthy" and exercise. But if what paul is claiming about seed oils and metabolic disfunction is true, his argument that no body of main stream MDs advise to fix metabolic disease/insulin resistance with dieting (stopping seed oil intake) is valid.
@@august4633 I did not defend his views, I only said his argument is valid because Derek didn't get hist point. On the contrary of pseudoscience, there are evidences that high rates of n6 polyunsaturated fats disrupts mitochondrial functions, which the standard American diet is full of.
“Seed oil” is the new “demon food”, before that it was just “carbs” if you ask vegan it would be any animal based product. It’s all nonsense, nothing bad would happen to your body if you consume seed oils, the issue with seed oils is that they are just low in useful stuff while rich in calories. Just like most “unhealthy” food it really comes down to too many calories for too little micronutrients. Because of that you end up over feeding and gaining weight while still lacking sufficient fiber, minerals and vitamins.
I know it would be a big cost, but if you had an editor have little slides/annotations come up sometimes when referencing medical terms /conditions that are slightly less well known that would make these podcasts a whole new learning experience and way more accessible. Even just a pop up description of a term front time to time. I’ve been watching for 4/5 years now but there are times I don’t have a clue what they’re talking about
Because carnivore is 100x better then the standard American diet because it eliminates almost all processed foods and seed oils, still though adding fruit makes it even better and is more like we evolved eating
Getting hung up on pharmacological intervention for managing lipids was painful. So many great things Paul was unable to talk about here due to how much time was spent on that. Silly.
I think one thing that is always left off of these discussions is what should a person do if they are not metabolically healthy, don't have/are disposed to FH, and have high levels of APOB, and struggling thyroid? I believe this cohort of patient is very prominent in the US and it would be helpful to discuss from that perspective. I know several relatives that would fall into this group and wonder how I should encourage them. i.e - should they attempt a limited full carnivore diet to help get their metabolic health moving in the right direction? Is low impact cardio sufficient if that is all they feel like they have the energy to do daily?
it’s wild that this comes out at this time because like 2 and a half weeks ago i started watching Saladino’s stuff and taking it serious than before because i used to think he was a quack but im 100% on board now from thinking about it logically ive been on animal based for over 2 weeks and have felt 100 times better
Been on it a bit over a year. Just remember not to skimp out on the bone broth for collagens, and liver for all the other vitamins as well as your fruits!
Im not agreeing with Derek’s approach here of “lets use pharmacology for prevention” to manipulate numbers and make them look good. A huge thing I see with other bodybuilders in social media. I wouls much more agree with Paul’s approach, even though Im not 100 percent in his views of nutrition.
Derek - I think one thing to talk to regarding the carnivore diet is the lack of fiber. Studies have been showing that colon cancer, specifically amongst young men is doubling (the same young men influenced by bodybuilding culture and carnivore culture), is sky high and a lack of veggies/legumes/grains is a big reason for this.
Fiber as a preventative measure for colon cancer only has utility in a carb laden diet. This is because the fiber is a substrate for gut bacteria to create butyrate. The butyrate is then converted to beta hydroxy butyrate in the colonocytes before it's any use. In the absence of dietary carbohydrate this beta hydroxy butyrate is supplied to the colonocytes endogenously
Paul is that kid who hated vegetables so much as a kid he’s devoted his whole life talking about how unhealthy they are because his mom made him eat a broccoli one time 😂
Looking forward to this. Glad to see Derek back. When it comes to atherosclerosis & cholesterol I have no idea what to believe. Hopefully gain some insights here.
From This convo I do think It makes sense to hedge your bets against high apob whilst also living healthy in all other aspects. If you can find a apob lowering med with little to no side effects then it seems the benefits far outweigh the risks.
His comments on Peter Attia endorsing seed oils and bad nutrition are crazy. He’s trying to provoke a fight so he can get publicity by debating his. But he seems to no understand what Attia actually says.
He did not say that, his argument is that seed oils are the main cause of metabolic disfunction and Peter Atteia is not advocating against seed oils and even saying the are benign.
@@RyanABC123 Can we agree that if he doesn't advocate against them he doesn't see them as a significant factor in metabolic disfunction? Paul and others believe seed oils are the main cause of it and Peter and others don't and this was the argument
It does not seem like Paul was interested in answering any questions during this interview. Paul says one thing, Derek asks a question, Paul won’t defend his stances and just says “you’re looking at it incorrectly”. And round and round and round
the only people who can do that are tribes who eat every part of the animal, including organs like the stomach where much of the nutrients of vegetables came from vegetables in the stomach or something.
As someone who has tried every diet to finally feel good, I was vegan for 2 years, vegetarian for 1 and for about 8 months I did typical “body builder” diet, rice, chicken, a cup of vegetables at every meal etc. I’ve never felt more alive and as good as I do doing carnivore CORRECTLY, the issue is everyone just buys chicken breast and thinks they’re doing carnivore. As someone who’s had multiple trips to the ER for chronic gas cramps to the point where doctors thought I was having an appendicitis attack, this is the only thing that’s healed them. As well as my acne, back pain, thin nails, energy, libido, etc. but yeah yall can say what you want lol, don’t knock it till you try it
The thing thats bothers me is the people who dont want to eat this way who preach grains and veggies are missing the very important fact that people who do eat this way do it because grains,veg etc do not agree with there body....why is that so hard to understand?
I am 56 years old. Been in the gym religiously for 39 years. I still train really hard 4-5 times a week for an hour or more (doing HIT) I went Carnivore 28 months ago, and had many, many benefits, but, like Paul, I had terrible cramping and frequent heart palpitations. I added electrolytes after a year and this still did not solve things. After 18 months I added some fruit. Nothing crazy like Paul, maybe 3-4 servings of fruit a day, mostly berries in a smoothie. This solved all my issues! My hypothesis is a little different from Paul's. I think that when you are super active and often depleting all of your muscle glycogen, via hardcore training or like Paul's surfboarding, and then not replenishing that glycogen via carb loading, especially after training, that these carbs actually are the transport mechanism to put the electrolytes into the muscle. The muscles become chronically electrolyte depleted and then the cramping becomes chronic. Anyway, some fruit fixed that. Recently I have been following Dr. O'Mara and now I am adding some ferments to my diet. I may try to lower the carbs somewhat and see if the original problem might have had to do with gut biome health.
Love that you two could sit down and speak through the nuances of nutrition and exercise! Sort of weird that Dr. Saladino was trying to paint the story that Dr. Attia only focuses on exercise. Regardless, glad you two were able to get over that hurdle and host a beneficial, public, open discussion on the rapidly evolving and complex field of metabolic health. Would be great to see more podcasts like this!
@@bigaaronall that exercise stressed his body to the max. He’s stressed his body and is ages rapidly and his diet which consists of a lot of carbs will do that to you.
Everybody wants to criticize Paul for switching his diet a lot. All I can say is whether you’re vegan, carnivore, keto or Animal based one thing I can say for sure is as long as you’re trying to make your diet better for yourself then you’re on the right direction
Saladino was very defensive, lol. I'm glad y'all were able to work through that and come to an understanding and overall have a great discussion. I know he gets ragged on often, so its to be expected. You asked some tough questions for the sake of understanding as well as to help us understand and I appreciate you for that, Derek. For what it's worth, Saladino, my perspective is much more similar to yours as I believe carnivore is a tool that should be used to figure out what works best for each of us on an individual level. I believe a food journal is the key to determining what is the proper diet for each of us while using the carnivore style diet to heal as well as create a clean foundation from which to test various plants (veg/fruit) for side effects while notating how our bodies react to them. This will give us a great diet plan to follow that suits our needs, allowing everyone to drop the dogmatic approach. Its quite annoying to see people in carnivore forums get all bent out of shape with their dogmatic outlook which makes them easily comparable to the vegan crowd. In any case, I wish you all well on your health journeys. Cheers!
I stopped following this guy when he said he has no idea the liver king was on roids. Called him a friend then “distanced himself” from him after liver admitted it lol
Diet and exorcize. I feel way better when I'm exercising even when I'm eating worse. Diet helps and i can tell i can better when I'm eating better but moving more had affected the way i look and feel and the data shows my anecdote is correct. This guy has always been a contrarian griftet. Listen to this dude and you can tell he's nervous all the time. He knows he's dishonest. He wouldn't look like he does if he didn't work out. No diet will do that and he fucking knows it
I have got to figure something out with exercise. I stopped walking/running/biking because the city has gotten crazy. You risk your life walking around in public now. I guess I'm going to have to get a gym membership, but I hated sports and PE and all that stuff, it's just reminder of all the stuff I sucked at. 😂
@@Steve-ev6vxafter a few months of consistent exercise itll just be second nature. working out for me used to feel like a chore, but now its just.. something i do, and i enjoy doing it. it gets easier i promise u just gotta be consistent
@1:41:10 “it’s a gray area.” It doesn’t seem very gray considering the pharmacological intervention the Derek describes attentuates apoB and has a very minor side effect profile. It seems to me that if a pharmaceutical is tolerated well and lowers the risk of the #1 cause of mortality, it’s pretty no brainer. I could be wrong, though.
Yeah when it got down to it Saladino's only defence was "you can't prove that it is safe long term" when you really can from most clinical data on Lipid lowering drugs especially the modern ones
Bro science. No truth to it. Never heard anybody claim that from being in ketosis. I've never had a problem with it. And also the only one to hear him say in the ketosis camp about it being long term unhealthy. Just pulling that out of thin air.
@mcstootschris never had that issue. I have only gotten cramps when working in 100 degree plus heat all day. But I haven't ever tried to go 7 days without eating either. I can do one small meal a day, but I have to eat something.
Can we please get Peter Attia and Paul in a room together for the ultimate lipid discussion? Let Rogan host it like he did with Chris Kresser and James Wilks.
@@Arthur-jz8sm he aint a grifter he got me into organs which was unheard food group that noone talks about they helped me overcome mineral defficencies without having to eat pounds of vegetables to get the same nutrients
@@Alex77tank87the science has always said vegetables are good for you and eating nothing but meat is bad for you. Paul just chose to ignore all the science and cherry pick and misinterpret studies that bolster his biases. Anyone who takes this man seriously is an idiot.
Guys if you wanna consume veggies, grains, starches, &/or pharmaceuticals then do it nobody’s stopping y’all grown ass people complaining over his recommendations based off his experience & work😭
Im curious If Paul thinks type 2 diabetics should eat carbs and use drugs to decrease blood glucose a alternative to Strict keto for glucose control. Keto has had me at 4.7 A1c non-diabetic from 13.2 A1c Scorching Diabetic. since Feb 2020. Drug intervention "Insulin, Metformin, Invokana" kept me at 6.5 A1c diabetic with treatment.
@@frontierlandfrank5314 Absolutely correct, I followed my doctor's orders of eating a healthy diet of Whole grains, brightly colored vegetables like tomatoes, red potatoes, carrots and lots of Juice, fruits and berries. The standard american diet, also known to kill people with extreme insulin resistance. Extreme Keto "Sub 15 Grams of carbs daily dropped 100 lbs, and allowed me to get moving again without joint pain. I have now gained 30 lbs of muscle in 4 year "Dexa scan verified @ 19% body fat and won't go back. currently I have the following specs @ 64 years old. 5'10" 190 lbs 48" chest, 16.5" biceps, 32" waist. Can deadlift 300 lbs, 36" box jump multiple times, Dips with added 90 lbs, chinups with the same weight. I still eat the occasional high carb meal on special occasions then work it off quickly. A few DewBerries are consumed daily, picked off my fence line when in season. The doctor now hates to see me as I question most things with info from derrick, Attia, Huberman, and the like. Click on my image to see a few "mainly silent" videos showing the effects of a clean keto lifestyle!
