@@IceLizardsUnited I know it's been 4 months since you commented, but I'd hardly call that a "defeat". Sealing Nyx because she was too powerful and doing so with the soul of the protagonist hardly counts as a "win" in my book. To each their own though.
According to the creator, this scenario is the antithesis of the story of boys and girls fighting for the fate of the world! They look down on adults and try to defeat the enemy by themselves, but everything backfires and they fail. They dislike adults, but they also have a kind sister whom they adore. To them, Maya is a special adult. However, Maya seems to be a kind and gentle woman, like a holy mother, but in fact she has forced herself to play that kind of character.
This is the ultimate kick in the balls. It’s so bittersweet it hurts. Maya is killed, earth is destroyed, it was all part of the long con by Philemon and Nyarlathotep to see who could win a bet and now it’s back to square one but with everyone’s memories erased. I know EP mitigates some of the pain here but I’ll be dammed if this isn’t needlessly cruel
@@Max1996YT a lot of people didn’t know IS even existed back then, so I assume most people just thought it was a very weird setup. That being said, these are niche games so it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary to assume the target audience was savvy enough to do some online digging. Magazines probably covered it too
Hmm, one of Nyarlathotep's lines was poorly translated into English. The line where he says, "Anyone has the power to achieve their dreams, eh? Your namesake, deluded to the end, has been sacrificed. The dream is fulfilled!" (3:32) is not correct. A more accurate translation would be: "Anyone has the power to achieve their dreams, eh? She was deluded to the end and sacrificed another woman with the same name. That was this woman's dream!" The "she" here is Maya Okamura. He's pointing out the irony of Maya's last words (that "anyone has the power to achieve their dreams") because her death was the dream of Maya Okamura, who desperately wanted to see the fulfillment of the prophecy in In Lak'ech. It's especially ironic because Maya's shadow had hinted at her "death drive," which Maya couldn't accept about herself. She was the only character who couldn't overcome her own darkness or trauma and ultimately succumbed to it. Sort of related, but I think her ultimate persona Artemis having the spell "Recarmdra" was brilliant foreshadowing by the creators of the game.
Personally I think Eternal Punishment has the best ending in the series, it's so conclusive that 3 onwards are completely different and are worked on by a different team too
Erica McQueen Unfortunately, it has always been that way for years when it comes to the first two Persona games; hell, the spin-off games don’t appreciate them enough, either. They are just constantly referenced in and out of the story, through remixes, items, and even costumes throughout the series. As of late, Royal has a special mode where you can fight the protags from the previous games but only 3 and 4 since they are a lot more popular and well familiar to the fan base... It’s really sad how Atlus likes to pretend that the first two games don’t exist all because of how drastically different they are from P3 and onward. The same applies to the main series that the Persona games are solely based on (It’s been 5 years since SMT5 was teased and STILL nothing.)
@@Embyreal Well, it's frustrating that Atlus won't acknowlede Persona 1/2, but maybe it's better this way. At least they won't get the Persona 4 treatment.
@@officialFredDurstfanclub yeah! I’ve played Innocent Sin this last year but haven’t played Eternal Punishment, I’m having a hard time finding it actually.
@@JonnyDang21 CDromance has the game and a undub that removes the really really cheesy early 2000s voice acting and changes returning characters names to be their original Japanese names (Nate > Nanjo, Mary > Maki, Chris > Reiji, etc). It’s PS1 only mind as there’s no official or fan translation of the PSP version
Tatsuya isn't truly angry at Philemon, he is angry at himself and humanity for being such failures. It's a manifestation of his self-loathing. He knows that Philemon could do much against Nyarlathotep and yet he punched Philemon, who is his other self. Tatsuya has a very low self-esteem.
@@drawer29 wow, they must not have played any SMT games lol (not counting p3 and p4 as they’re referred to as shin megami tensei persona). Both series are fantastic in their own way though
Take what happened to tatsuya and flip circumstances over to SEES and you get an equal level of anguish in both endings. Both are pretty dark and depressing, no need to act high IQ.
I played the first Persona game way back in the 90s on PlayStation. It got low reviews / ratings on some of the game magazines back in the day but I loved the gameplay/ characters and music and have been a fan ever since. "PERSONAAAA!!!" 🌟
BuffMaister I'm sorry, but what are you getting at? PS. I never played persona 2 though, but I don't have the intention to play the game. Care to tell me? What is this 'prequel' and 'sequel' you speak of?
This game comes in 2 versions. Innocent Sin is the prequel and Divine Punishment the sequel. The ending you see here picks up further in the Divine Punishment.
Thank god for this video. My game crashed on the first video after the final boss, and I did not feel like doing those fights again to risk another crash. Thanks for the upload as well as showing all choices!
I never knew how it ended until I read something form a gameforums post. I was in disbelief and so I went to look for something and this is truly how it ends. I swear something will not let me cry
@@rodrigopachecolemos9277 Right. The reason Shinjiro's death works so well is because we don't feel so badly for Shinjiro himself, but we feel badly for Akihiko who casts the blame on himself.
Damn, ever since P2, the Lovers Arcana girls would always have feelings for the male protagonists. Given this was before the series soft-rebooted into a social sim, Lisa's feelings got to be fully expressed in the canon with no issues. Sadly, fate would have her and Yukari's loves be unrequited.
No, they wouldn’t have because the earth literally died and the only people alive were in Nyarlethoteps world. If the world of Innocent Sin wasn’t destroyed, then the future persona games could’ve been different
@@karuko4072 Yeap. In Innocent Sin timeline, Makoto Yuki, Yu Narukami along with their respective friends died as children. Ren Amamiya/Joker along with his friends never exist due to their respective parents died before they were born. Hell, even the villains in P3, P4 and P5 died before they can become a villain. Makoto Yuki suffered the worst fate in both timelines.
@@player2-lightwater914 What if Joker and his friends in that timeline were still inside their mother's womb or recently born when this happened? Are they still considered "non-existent".
@@player2-lightwater914 "Makoto Yuki suffered the worst fate in both timeline" Innocent Sin Tatsuya being forced to live in a world where all of his friends and family are dead: "Am I a joke to you?"
@@jaydenlobbe7911 At least, Tatsuya have the current timeline version (which is the Eternal Punishment) where he get a chance to live as an ordinary person. On the other hand, Makoto have none since he died in both timelines. In Innocent Sin timeline, he died as little boy and in Eternal Punishment timeline, he died to become the Great Seal.
@@michaeljames6737 Nyarlothotep isn't a cliché villian though, he's the counterpart to Philemon, a representation of humanities conscience. He isn't extremely complex but he's still a good villian
I started playing this game shortly after finishing Persona 5 Royal (spoilers ahead) and couldn’t help but notice the similarities. Needless to say, the ending destroyed me even more… Right at the start of the fight with Nyarlathotep they scream out "We’ll decide our own future!" and I was like damn, so it’s like the Dr. Maruki’a false reality thing! He granted everyone his ideal reality and created a new world, just like Joker did. But the main cast is fighting against the fake reality and the rumors. In P5, the new reality mostly just affects them, since Maruki knows best what they wished for, but here it’s almost the whole world/whole of Sumaru. Everyone who heard of the Joker game tried it, wishing to have their ideals granted, and all fell into the trap of Nyarlathotep. In the end, it’s the whole world against 4 teenagers and their dying 'big sis'. In spite of everything they have been fighting for, they had no choice but to succumb to the gods in their sorrow. They failed and now have become the very same as the people they kept fighting against, having their ideals granted by Philemon, giving up all their memories, even though they previously agreed that being forgotten would be worse than being dead… The more I think about this ending the more it hurts. In P5R, they accept Akechi’s death as he does himself, but in IS they literally have no choice. It’s them against all of humanity and an almighty god, with no way out. God I’m going to start sobbing again if I keep thinking about it… This is not a bittersweet ending in my opinion, it’s just an incredibly dark ending. Having played every game safe for EP now, I’d even say it’s the darkest true ending in the series.
I'm sorry, but Innocent Sin's gameplay issues are way too hard to ignore. That alone disqualifies it from being the best in series. Even on the ps1 version the boss fights are bland boring and Slow. Eternal Punishment However is my 2nd favorite because all the gameplay issues were fixed in EP. For me Innocent Sin is at the very bottom next to Persona 5. My personal favorite persona game is 3, but I like all of the games in the series. It's just I like some more than others.
@@Serg_El_EspantaViejasThanks man, i found it! But damn, why it is so short? Isn't there a longer version? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aTwxihPXuxE.html
The universe was already messed up, he couldn't live with himself knowing it was all a lie and he couldn't forget. Despite the trouble it causes, he is the only one brave enough to remember.
@@gdragonismygod It is sad for sure. Tatsuya knew it was the only choice to make for the sake of the world. For the sakes of those he loves. But he did so without hesitation, and that's what makes it bittersweet.
Depends on choices you made in EP and take specific route, Enkichi and Lisa will remember or not. Jun will not remember regardless what route or choices. Maya is forced to remember in storyline. So it's fine as long as Jun didn't remember it
When Maya Amano died in this game, her successors: Makoto Yuki, Yu Narukami and Ren Amamiya (Joker) died too. Makoto and Yu died as little boys while Ren was never born.
14:25 I knew something happened to philemon between persona 2 and 3, i refuse to believe philemon is the butterfly in persona 3 and 4 because hes a yellow butterfly not blue
Try to think of everything that happens in Persona 3, plus how all the masked Shadows look like Nyarlathotep, it probably got renamed to Nyx fairly late in development.
@@hoyhoy852 Actually Nyx doesn't work like Nyarlathotep.Unlike Nyarlathotep,Nyx wasn't caused by the collective unconsciousness like Nyarlathotep,but is actually an alien that collided with Earth,becoming the moon and her psyche remained on earth and fused with the primordial life.So in order to counter her influence,the collective unconsciousness was created.So that means that Philemon and Nyarlathotep only purpose of existance is to distract us from thinking about Nyx(or death in that case).Damn,I miss when games had deep and interresting lore behind them.
@@Hyunation its like what happened with silent hill 2's pyramid head, being recycled as new torturers/chasers in almost every other silent hill game. Nyarlathotep was recycled again and as again as cheap knockoffs literally doing the same stuff he did in P2 duology.
They should have a remake and the concept of rumors could be more integrated in the story. Maya’s death would have more buildup because it felt a little out of nowhere. And the character’s emotions to her death and what she meant to them could be elaborated on. Also the story got a lot of great hidden themes and I think they could be a little less implied and more explained and shown in a remake since it’s hard to catch especially in an old game like this. Also I’d make the characters more elaborated on and have more development especially the Persona 1 and Eternal Punishment characters. But other than that, amazing story.
You probably found it by now, but I believe the track name is really dumb... I think its literally called Ending Movie. But I guess it kind of makes sense given that one song that's name literally spoils the ending.... wait why am I phrasing it like this... the video is the ending... obviously I'm talking about Maya Dies.
Well, there’s the inherent inequality between Philemon and Nyarlarthotep. They’re supposed to be equals, but we often see Nyar rigging the game in his favor while Philemon. While this makes sense from a narrative perspective (villains tend to set up the plot that the heroes must react to), it does raise questions of why Philemon doesn’t exercise more power to at least make things more fair. While the heroes are able to create the alternate timeline; a more Proactive Philemon might’ve made a situation where it was unnecessary, especially since Eternal Punishment hints that the original timeline still exists, and the new one is in danger of reverting to the older (though the latter is more of a FUBAR on Tatsuya’s end). Granted, this fits beautifully with the themes of self-sacrifice, atonement, and the nature of growing up. Hence, the writing is exceedingly well-crafted, but the narrative setup required makes certain aspects illogical.
@@narutardkyuubi Because Philemon wants humanity to solve its own problems. Whenever Nyarlathotep starts one of his schemes, Phil chooses new persona users to fight against those schemes on humanity's behalf. He equips them with persona, and grants them access to the Velvet Room so that they could adapt to new challenges with new persona. Solving all of humanity's problems, and quelling all its threats, robs their chance to learn and grow as a species. Philemon wishes for humanity to learn from its mistakes, and to one day evolve into god-like being like himself. And that won't happen if he uses his powers to stop Nyarlathotep's schemes at every turn. Plus, changing the timeline and creating a new universe drained his power significantly, so much so that we see him imprisoned by Nyarl at the beginning of Eternal Punishment. For all we know, he used all of his power to percent Nyarl from changing the timeline in his favor. Forcing him to try a new method to destroy humanity in Eternal Punishment, a method that ultimately leads to him being defeated by Tatsuya and Maya.
