Last Of Us Part II holds absolutely nothing back. This episode is extremely hard to get through My Coffee Company ► topofthemornin... ►Twitter : / jacksepticeye ►Instagram: / jacksepticeye Edited by Pixlpit: / @aliceandchill
I will jack I just got to the part where ellie sings and damn girl I wish I had your voice EDIT: why does this have that many likes it is don't deserve this
In Joel’s house, right next to Sarah’s picture there’s one of him and Ellie with her new horse. I love how he put them together like that. His two daughters.
His house is so beautiful. The woodcrafting and paintings, the pictures, with Sarah and Ellie, the little books about dinosaurs and space for Ellie's birthday. A lot of that doesn't hit you immediately but knowing everything.....it's so beautiful
@@iwannadie3637 Bruv we see in the second flash back he tells Ellie wear a mask that's being careful if you use the "he's been inside for a long times he's become soft" type shit that's bs if he's in a community where he cares about them he would be way more careful there's no reason he would go in there
I almost cried when going through Joel's house and seeing all of the woodwork he was doing. He really went from a hardcore and emotionally unavailable smuggler to a caring old man who just wanted to make little carvings, play his guitar, and spend time with his adoptive daughter. It's so heart-wrenching :(
jack would be the worst person to survive the apocalypse with me:fighting of zombies "can i get some help" jack: "look at the light cascading through the window"
It really makes you think. One mistake, can be the end. One person. He killed one person who probably didn’t deserve it. He regretted killing them without a doubt, but it didn’t matter. The daughter only wanted blood.
@@leximurray5066 no way in hell did you come to this video and look at the community comments by FANS who know everything that happens and then be upset about it being spoiled.
36:14, Sean, I think the reason why there was a book called "Idiot's Guide to Space" was to insinuate that Joel was trying to learn more about space so he could relate more to Ellie... Jesus man this game really hits right on the daddy issues doesn't it?
Just to smell them, hold them, love them again... It's why the sense of smell can tell you a whole story of happiness, family, and hurt... That part got me crying hard too....
I had to keep telling myself, he's with Sarah. They're on their couch, back at home, and it's Joel's birthday. They're watching a movie, eating popcorn, and laughing again.
After all the people he tortured and killed? That man is in hell nowhere near Sarah LMAO. I love Joel but he was definitely not a good guy even if he was good to Ellie, he killed lots of innocent people.
When Ellie went from threatening to begging, that broke me. Also, I liked how Jack pointed out that the extra dialogue moments in this game are endearing, instead of annoying like in some other games. I think the difference is how well these characters have been crafted, and how invested we are in their journey.
whats so frustrating about Joel's death is that Ellie fought for so long and nearly killed herself trying to find medicine for him when he was hurt and nearly dead in the first game, and now she was completely and absolutely helpless watching him get beat to his death. As a watcher this was so infuriating, I wanted her to blast everyone away in that room.
@@purplepianoist88 That is the driving point of the entire story, gives an incentive to kill and be animalistic, showing how revenge wont break a loop of violence.
SPOILERS BELOW As a former English major, I always tend to look up the symbolism of things that appear in things I read or watch. Joel has white lilies and blue hydrangeas on his grave. White lilies represent purity, commitment, and rebirth, and have even been known to represent death in some situations. But that's not the flower that made me do a double take. It was the blue hydrangea. Blue hydrangeas symbolize apology, regret, and forgiveness. That really tugs at my heartstrings, knowing that literally the day before Joel dies, Ellie tells him she doesn't think she can forgive him, but wants to at least try. Don't know if this was an intended symbol from ND but still a nice little touch. In a way, I see this flower as Ellie apologizing for not starting her route to forgiving Joel sooner, and regretting that, and also forgiving him for what he did (to some extent).
@@plaguedocter4791 yeahh, I hope they put a little interaction scene in the show as well where Ellie at least admits to Joel's grave that she forgives him or something like that!
@@SpiritCrafter505 what he means is that the flowers on Joel's porch right at the end when Ellie tells him she wants to learn to forgive him mean forgiveness and regret
Is anyone else endeared how now Sean can say “I’m gonna have strong fing words with Troy after this.” Like, someone who he admires and has looked up to for a long time and now he can just have casual and familiar conversations with him.
Bad Touch Man I didn’t believe him until he said that Troy had texted him and I was just so proud like he’s talking to one of his idols and I love that
I am glad for and impressed by Sean's personal and professional growth, but I don't think that's the proper way to use the word 'endear.' Ok my Grammar Nazi Hall Pass for 2020 has been used. Sorry for being a dick about it.
@@christianwilson1118 troy baker is also a recording artist, and so is ashley johnson how else do you think they sing so well in cutscenes and trailers
As an environmental science student, I can say that you would be surprised how fast roads go to shit and dams break to allow rivers to flow if nothing is maintained
i dont think something as a highway bridge going to shit like that unless a fucking massive cathastrophic event like erthquakes happened, and in even that case it would have to be a big one... unless that or corrosion from water streams, massive structures of thick reinforced concrete lasts decades or even hunedreds of years without significant dmg, i can tell u this as a (once) construction worker
@@samurduarte4064 The city was also bombed which would either destroy or significantly weaken the structure of the buildings, then you add on decades of erosion due to rain and rivers as well as not having any people around to maintain anything
Bubba Gump Shrimp I think in most places it wouldn’t be that bad but the Seattle area is really wet so things would grow very quickly and erode quickly.
I cried like a baby. My wife was in shock when she saw me, I never cry. She got upset when she found out she first saw me cry over a video game character. Still brings a tear to eye.
My brother and I, who were both born and raised in Seattle, and still live here, both agree that this game is the most accurate depiction of our home city, minus the post-apocalyptic setting. Specific buildings and streets and neighborhoods are SOOOOO on point. I was geeking out so much when I played this game, and I hope many more people were able to appreciate it the way I did.
I live near Seattle, but I really don’t like the city so I don’t really ever go to it. So I couldn’t pick up on specific landmarks and geek out about how cool it is. But after reading that, it makes me like the game just that little bit more
@@alyssaanderson4323 Yep, they are right on the many piers at the waterfront. The view you see of the city and Puget Sound from the wheel in the Abby/Owen flashback is legit.
This is the silly challenge that game developers and story composers throw to the audience. Let's not ruin mental health for the sake of their charisma, mental health is a very important part of life, take care of it. Joel died because the producer and the team wanted it to happen (I wouldn't give them any credit for creating such a story of disappointment, the story's one of the most important characters is gone, which, in my opinion, looses a lot of interest for the next sequel in near future. Although I know why Abby did it, I'm literally disgusted by how brutally she did it in a time consuming manner. In fact, there was a reason to kill Joel but no reason to do it the meanest possible way) Anyway, take care & let not this trauma affect your daily lives.
catastrophic avalanche Joel ideas because that’s life. When you live in a time where morals don’t exist, people most will get their revenge. If you really cared about Joel and aren’t faint hearted you’d feel how Ellie felt, wanting to continue playing so you can retaliate and avenge him
i felt so bad for ellie in this. she went from threatening to kill them to begging them to pls stop. you can see the pain in here eyes and hear the pain in her voice. it was so heart breaking
I like that Seán is able to be more fair, analytical, and appreciative of this game than a lot of other players. He spends so much time admiring the camerawork, storytelling, graphics, acting, writing, etc. It makes his videos more fun to watch than most!
The story telling,writing and acting were the worst of what I've seen in any game ever. Graphics and gameplay wise (messing around, doing my own thing) is mediocre at best, why do all that shit when I have rdr undead Nightmare or rdr2. Black ops coldwar zombies has better lore than tlou2 possibly can
@@Bacon00024 dude tlou2 gameplay graphics acting character chemistry and attention to detail can only be matched by a couple of games it’s in the top 1% of games whether you liked the outcome of this stories conclusion or not you can’t deny the beauty of this games craft
@@magnus7708 I can think of a few games that are way better than tlou2. Rdr2 and rdr1 execute exactly what they were trying to do with tlou2 a lot better and much more realistically. GTA 4 too. GTA SA and GTA Vice City are way better than tlou2. Every retro game ever is better than tlou2. Tlou1 is better. The reason I don't like tlou2 is because nothing about it makes any fucking sense and it tells a story about revenge poorly, a second grader could write a better story than whatever the fuck you call this catastrophe
Jack playing a game: OMG the main character that we love so much just got brutally murdered, but look at how the light reflects off the blood and the coldness of his eyes, so beautiful
Yeah it’s amazing. Never have a game been so good at making me feel what I felt. I felt empty, angry, and sad. Yet the narrative did its thing, and in the end I understood the terrible loop that is revenge. This games really said “eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”
@@mesaplayer9636 I get that people want that but it goes against everything the game is trying to tell you and is about. So Ellie not avenging Joel made it amazing for me personally.
@@JVE003 exactly. Joel took Ellie from the hospital because he wanted her to have a chance at her own life, as normal as possible. But in doing so, he spurred Abby’s mission to claim vengeance on him, which in turn led to Ellie destroying her own life trying to reach Abby-the exact opposite of what Joel wanted for her in the first place. It’s an awful cycle of revenge and misguided love. It’s too bad the wider narrative gets lost on some fans because they only see Abby as a mindless villain, no more nuanced than a random soldier, rather than the complex deuteragonist she is.
Me: *literally crying* Sean: "Look at that reflection" In all seriousness, the moment that made me start crying was when Ellie went into Joel's closet and smelled one of his jackets. When I lost my dad, I realised that I would never get to see, hear or even smell him anymore; he had one aftershave that he used often and that smell was a part of my childhood. I don't remember the name of the aftershave and I've never been able to find it in store, but sometimes I think I can remember what it smelt like.
In our country the elderly says if you recognize the smell of a certain person who passed away that means they're nearby. And uh i dont know but reading your comment about the scent of his makes me think about Artic Blue aftershave.
I wish more developers had balls to delay their games. This one took 8 years to release and it is probably the most stunning looking visually/graphically; as well as the most emotionally investing game I've ever seen and played to be honest.
@@jordanlindquist6605 why do you say that? Personally I really enjoy the story. I’ve never been one to critique games much, I just try and enjoy it even if it doesn’t go how I imagined.
i would say the fact they optimized the game this much to make it look that good is even more impressive than the visuals considering this is on 2013 hardware
33:02 “all the promises at sundown I met them like the rest” is actually the lyrics to the song Future Days by Pearl Jam. (Which is also the song the Joel was singing to Ellie earlier in the game)
47:13 According to Le Google: "This question has been investigated quite thoroughly by Alan Weisman in his book The World Without Us. The short story is that within 5 years, it'll start looking like a forest, within 20 years, the skyscrapers will start coming down, and within 200 years, the place will have been fully colonized by trees." Pretty crazy
There is also a show called Life After People on the History Channel that would take a specific place and/or building and discuss how it would degrade over decades and eventually centuries.
Joel DEFINITELY felt so much worse with Ellie being there during his death. His life's goal is to now protect her. And he finally couldn't protect her and probably thought they would murder her as well. He died losing the thing he feared most in life....ie losing his daughter and not being able to protect her. Ellie has basically become his daughter.
@@Jackieb741 truly sad. It's really great writing. I know a lot of people sh*t on the sequel but it's writing is still good. Anything that can bring a 34 year old man to tears is powerful.
My headcanon is honestly he didn’t know Ellie was there. His skull was caved in at that point, and his brain was malfunctioning. I know you’re meant to interpret it as him taking one last look at Ellie, but it makes me feel better to think the last thing he remembers is “you don’t get to rush this“ instead, instead of thinking, he’s going to lose Ellie. I think their last talk on the porch works really well for HIS final time ever seeing her.
@@magiccookies420haha your "headcannon" . I like that. I just rewatched that part and he looks like he might already be dead. Whatever happened I hope he finds peace in the afterlife and knows Ellie is okay without him. (Wtf am I even talking about lol, I'm wishing RIP for a video game character... I guess that shows how powerful this narrative is)
Poseidon Exactly, Red Dead Redemption 2 had so many deaths, and all of them seem so real, this game is even better when it comes to character deaths. (Graphics wise)
When Ellie came across that space book by Joel's bed, it added onto the fact the Joel cared about Ellie and took interest in her thoughts and dreams because in the first game Ellie mentions how it would have been cool to go to space sometime, maybe he was reading that to inform her on stuff?
Naughty Dog did such a good job on the characters- making them human and real and all, but yeesh if I don't think they fumbled the story a little bit at key points? Still, they made a real world, with real humans living in it, that's for sure.
that special moment between ellie and dina when she plays "take on me" has to be one of the most beautiful moments ive seen in a videogame. everything about it is so human and so hopeful despite everything they have gone through
Not sure i hate the game but i hate abby. She looks like the hulk with a female face and a A cup i mean she is buffer then joel.. it just ehhh looks weird seeing a girl have pecs next to all these skinny guys and girls. I would have gave her some points if she said would you kindly but nope. Discount Andrew riona death scene.. pffff and oh the knee remover from black ops2 scene is back.. they could have just crippled joel and left but no.. i mean crippling seems more emotional and painfully to live with what you did but nope. Generic torture.. i see abby is creative as her design and clothing choice.. sorry for the small rant.. Just this all made me feel a bit sick..
She tried not to show that she was looking at him, that she reconised the name. I also noticed when they're at the mansion when they say Joel's name, the guy on the couch straightens up, he knows
It’s so sad knowing the last conversation Ellie and Joel has together was Ellie being mad at him and pushing him away and Joel’s last sight of her is her being pinned down by the attackers
She was upset with him but she did say she wanted to try forgiving him. Even when she's doing her first patrol with Dina, she was asked what she would be doing later that night. She said she was thinking of inviting Joel over to watch a movie.
The reason why Joel got astronaut stuff at his house was because Ellie told him that she wanted to be an astronaut. That's why he learned everything about astronaut stuff to impress Ellie. Feels sad man. Joel was a great father.
bro, this literally reads like the second mortal kombat movie, where everything's grey and there's ninjas everywhere and they kill johnny cage on the first minutes of the movie for no reason.
i’ve seen this a million times but everytime joel dies and ellie plays if i were to ever lose you i cry. it’s so sad and idk how she doesn’t break down crying playing the guitar.
I’m sure other people have noticed but when Ellie was playing guitar the first song she sang Is the song that Joel sang to her at the beginning of the game. I just thought that was so cute!
It's also notable that the song is actually called "future days" by Pearl Jam.....a band from Seattle whose poster was on the wall in the main lobby of the music shop.
did you think it's more funny when you turned the scene into text? is this funny? Okay, should i laugh now? hahahaha there you go, because this is a funny thing you just did, ha ha ha haha.
One thing I appreciate IMMENSELY, is the guitar animations and fingerings are 100% accurate to real life. That's something you don't see in game ot movies almost ever. I LOVE it. ❤ 🎸
and that you can hit individual strings too not just strum all at once. However its' very difficult to be smooth at it. So easy to mess up with the touchpad in the wrong spot plys having to cycle through the other chords with l1 takes time. I can almost play house of the rising sun on it but obviously my tempo is much slower.
Part-Time Gamer lol that just proves that there's another plot hole, what if there's a random joel that says their name, do they blow off his kneecaps also?
Abby knew there's was a Joel Miller at Jackson on his 50s, he's brother Tommy was a former fireflie they had files of him. I think it's enough information for her to recognize them.
@@LaMarkBall Im not a defender of Last of us 2 but in last of us 1 they knew Joel and Ellie. I cant remember his name but it was the man that ultimately locked up Ellie that identified her and spread word to his people. In the mid game with the soldiers in the worn down brick buildings I remember someone saying "look for the tourist as well"
The detail put into this game is incredible. When Tommy introduces himself and Joel to Abby you can see her facial expression change as she realizes the man she’s hunting is right in front of her
A cool reflexion that I had walking in Joel’s house is that in the bathroom he took the mirror off the wall, like he couldn’t stand to see his face, I think until his death, Joel was plagued with the guilt of what he did, even if he wasn’t expressing it in public. That’s a really nice detail and story telling in the environment
as much as I like that thought. that was the bathroom that he seemed to be using as a laundry room. The bathroom attached to his bedroom still had 2 rather large mirrors in it. Likely that the mirror was gone before he moved in there or maybe he gave it so someone else who was missing a mirror and didn't have 3 bathrooms in their house lol.
The thing that broke me the most was the tear drops on the pages of the diary entry about what happened on the day Joel had met his enemies. The detail digs deep and really puts hooks on the heart.
I didn’t even notice that until I went back and it hurts, what pains too is at the end out of nowhere seeing Joel sing to Ellie again made me cry, you just know Ellie’s stayed up for nights crying missing when Joel would just hug her and promise her no matter what even if she is immune she will always be safe with him... then when he died before that fatal blow you can feel the tears he shed not because he was dying but because Ellie had to watch him die 🥺🥺
I didn’t actually notice that, but I did notice when Ellie took the map out after being in the river it flung water up off of it. Pretty wild the amount of detail put into the game.
the fact that I’ve seen this game play so many times but I still can’t bring myself to not look away during Joels death. one of the saddest character deaths in all history, if not the most saddest.
Looking at leaks for a great game is not worth it. In this case it takes the emotion out of it which is the driving force for the rest of the plot.... Damn...
@@Depsilon69 It's a good idea to always look just a little bit into potential leaks and spoilers. You don't want to waste $60 on a shitty story. Doesn't matter how good the gameplay and graphics are.
@@Depsilon69 looking into believable leaks has saved me alot of money, I'd rather have a few spoilers and play a good game than spend 60 dollars for a shitshow like this one
watching this again and im so appreciative of how Jack is praising the game. i think it gets way more shit than it deserves and it's good to see so much praise for it
He's giving praise to the visuals and the attention to detail, people always s*** on the game because of how the story is so it's two completely different things
Don't play victim. He's telling you the difference between praising the games visuals and praising the games story. Everyone thought this game played well, looked phenomenal but the story and characters are probably the worst in any Naughty Dog game ever. Terrible stupid death of the main character and then the game forces you to play as the killer for like 12 hours, then gives you no payoff in the ending after slaughtering so many people. It's a ridiculously bad story and characters are written beyond terribly. If they had focused on a compelling story as opposed to shoehorning wokeness into an apocalypse game then they might have had a great game.
@@biancadesousaExcept the developers or writers I should say are so stupid they made the best game unenjoyable because you're too busy despising your character.
🤣🤣🤣 Good point. Ellie is still a badass, but if it's gonna be any group if people. It's David's group or the Fireflies. Personal guess since they didn't kill Ellie, but they also didn't take her with them. We shall see. 🤷♀️
I'm glad that someone else saw this coming from a mile away. Feelings about the event are going to differ from person to person, and all those feelings are valid... But anyone saying that that was out of nowhere, and bad writing, are just not being honest with themselves. It's terrible. It's horribly sad. It makes you feel all kinds of uncomfortable, negative feelings (y'know, like certain kinds of ART tends to do!)...but it definitely had a purpose. The purpose is to point out that people are complicated. Sometimes you have to make a choice that's bad, but it's the least bad. Or sometimes you have to hurt others to protect the ones you love. But that doesn't mean it's 100% righteous and good and everyone else hurt by your decision has no right to protect or get justice for THEIR loved ones. So, I saw it coming from a mile away. Not just from the trailer. During the end of the first game. Seeing it coming, imo, isn't a bad thing. It means the story makes sense. A lot of stories now just try to pander to what fans want, good writing be damned, or try to surprise us just to surprise us. He did what he had to do, and he also had to face the inevitable consequences. He did a horrible thing, for a good, very understandable reason. Doesn't make it any less horrible for those he hurt. Those are not mutually exclusive. That conflict makes the whole story more interesting, but it also needs to be addressed. You can't set the protag up for that and then let him live carefree and "happily ever after". Those weren't obstacles in a video game to the people in the story. They were loved ones. And just because he needed to do what he did to save HIS loved one, doesn't mean it wasn't without consequences. Y'know what else isn't mutually exclusive? Feeling anger towards her, feeling devastated, wanting her dead after what she does, yet feeling conpassion toward her reasons, feeling regret for the characters about everything on all sides. That is good writing. If someone wants a black and white tale about pure good and evil, there's a million fairy tales and superhero stories out there to scratch that itch. Though I'll tell ya right now, the hero in those stories doesn't just kill a gaggle of people (who were just trying to do their best to save as many as possible) and then afterwards get thanked for it by those murdered people's kids. This series was never heroic escapism. I'm really glad there are honest, open, fair gamers like you out there, doing your thing, with heart and brain engaged. Thank you
I think this game teaches a very important lesson, that no matter what you do in life there are consequences to your actions, so be mindful of what actions you take.
jack: “there are gonna be some really pissed off people” guess he hasn’t seen almost every reply to Naughty Dog and Neil Druckmann on Twitter. you haven’t seen pissed off until you’ve seen those replies. beware of spoilers over there, too. they’re ruthless
The spoilers are saving people money. This sequel took what many consider to be one of gaming’s most iconic characters of recent era, killed him and spit on his corpse within the first three hours of a 15+ hour game.
@@Hanakin-Sidewalker not only was Joel not THAT iconic, but everyone who played the first game KNEW that this would be what a sequel would look like. Ellie losing Joel after intentionally building it up over the first game and fueling her revenge is textbook. Do I actually wish they didnt have the same old morals in this game? Yeah, but it's clear that they wanted to make "more last of us" and not really have more interesting things to say. At let's be honest, there are countless zombie stories that have 'what if zombies arent the only monsters'as a plot twist. Fucking dead rising did it too
@@amaridesu1141 A lot expected that Joel would die in the second game. That usually what happens in stories like this but I guess it's how he died that pisses most people off.
@Amari Desu like @Emille Aira Patanao said, it’s the way the writers killed Joel off. just how they introduce this Abby character (i read and seen the spoilers, so i know her motives) willy nilly. sure it gives a reason for the continuation of the story and Ellie’s revenge, but the way they decided that clubbing Joel to death like he was a nobody, that’s what hurt. in my opinion (and i know not many will agree), telltale’s the walking dead did the whole “killing off a main character” beautifully. it hurt a lot, yes, but it made more sense than TLOU2. lee’s death is what made clem stronger and angry. strength in a character makes more sense and expands them more than anger. look at Abby for example. she’s really angry and that doesn’t make her likable as a person. Naughty Dog and the writers tried, but i can’t see myself liking the sequel more than the original and sorry for the novel lol
@@jameskloslow2068 actually you cant go off of that because most of the reviews were made by people who had only played the first 2 or 3 hours and others who were just going off other people
no but also the fact that Ellie and Joel had a fight the night before. and Ellie was gonna do a movie night to smooth things over, and she never got to. im sobbing
The magicians did this on the season 4 finally, I can never here the original without thinking about the magicians “take on” it. “Needless to say” this brings back sad memories from the show.
Everyone (a lot of people) was crying about Joel being “out of character” and all that but he’s literally been in the safety of a city for years. It’s not like the original starting point in the first game where he still had to fight. Joel barely fought during that time and he’d been softened up and trying to bond with Ellie the ENTIRE time. Not only that, he was completely untrustworthy in the first game so it wouldn’t be surprising if he had to change in Jackson in order to be more trusting of people, hence him telling his name to Abby’s group. People were totally blinded by their hate of Joel dying that this game was completely treated unfairly when it first came out. The insignificance and fast paced killing of Joel just goes to show Joel being treated like some of the people he’d killed in the first game
I don't think you get why a lot of people were upset at Joel's death. Joel was, deep down, a good man that had been broken after the loss of his daughter, and his connection with Ellie pushed him to finally have a real reason to push forward in life, not just for himself, but for his surrogate daughter. Joel also isn't out of character, because he never gives his name, Tommy does, the one who genuinely has been living in the comfort of a powered city for probably close to 10 years, and even in the first game is painted as naive and too optimistic for his own good. The problem with Joel's death is that it's contrived, undeserved, and salt is only poured into the wound when you're forced to play as Abby, who is a complete psychopath in every sense of the word, being far worse than Joel ever was when it came to being selfish and brutal. I'm not nearly as upset as people were online when this game released, and I genuinely enjoy it's gameplay, but the entire narrative suffers from a lack of thought and contrived scenarios with a slap-dashed message of "Breaking the cycle of revenge", a message that was portrayed far better in games like Nier Automata, God of War 3 and 4, and even the first game to a limited extent. Joel being "out of character" is not the problem, anyone who says that didn't pay attention, the problem is that his character deserved far better from not just this game, but Naughty Dog as a whole
@@kalemuncher9425 First off yeah I definitely misunderstood the first part, also, I’m sorry man, but that second paragraph, is like… literally the point of the game, and it did good. I feel like you just liked the character Joel so much you would “hate” on the game (or just not like it) unless you got to play as him. The fact that you recognized that “salt is only poured into the wound when you’re forced to play as Abby” is good because that’s precisely what made me like the game more. You play as this character (Abby) that killed and utterly disrespected the character you were so deeply attached too, but for a kinda understandable reason. I found myself hating Abby so much after Joel’s death, ESPECIALLY when the game forced you to play as her, but slowly I kind of thought about what she did, and how… kind of understandable it was. You say that Abby was *far* more selfish than Joel somehow, when Joel took away humanity’s (possibly) only hope for a vaccine. Finally, you saying that the game lacked thought is just complete disrespect. I’ve seen people fairy criticize the game, but almost no one go to an extent of saying that the game is lacking thought behind its narrative, which even Jack admits is a strong part of the game when he obviously thought the game had some flaws. I also believe that us all thinking that Joel “deserved more” in terms of story and gameplay further contributed to how good him suffering an “insignificant” death or one without him being able to fight back very much was.
@@devwvw You're misunderstanding what I mean when I say that Joel deserved better. You can make the argument that the entire point of his death was to enrage the player, and it's a valid viewpoint to have, but I just can't buy into that with full belief due to the situation that led up to Joel's death, with stuff like a hoard suddenly appearing in the blizzard despite the patrol zone being clear for months, Ellie and Dina getting distracted with weed and so on, Tommy thinking that the appropriate time to introduce yourself is when you're being chased by a hoard. I just can't ignore that kind of stuff, some people can, and those people enjoy the narrative a lot more than I do, to which I am happy for them. I'd never rag on anyone for liking something that I didn't, because that'd just be egotistical on my part. Since you mentioned the cure, I do want to bring up that the first game was quite deliberate in how it painted the vaccine actually coming into existence was a pipedream. The fireflies act utterly incompetent and needlessly brutal throughout the entirety of the game, and Marlene herself was on the brink of leaving before Ellie showed up at the hospital. The doctors then take Ellie, who is unconscious and can't possibly give consent to this (and didn't expect to give her life away considering she says she'll go anywhere with Joel before we get to the hospital), she's placed in a dirty operating room, in a rundown and barren hospital and incredibly desperate doctors who admit in a recording that they have no clue what they're even looking at. Joel didn't take away the cure, he took away the *chance* for a cure, a chance that by the end of the first game has been made exceedingly clear is slimmer than a toothpick. Incase I'm coming off with the wrong tone, I promise you I'm not upset at all and I'm not trying to rag on you, I'm just trying to explain my reasoning for the way I feel about this. Joel saved Ellie's life from a bunch of incompetent terrorists that were living purely on a pipedream. I see Abby as far more selfish since she willingly dragged her friends, including someone who's visibly pregnant, miles across the country and risked their lives so that she could torture and kill a man that killed her father 4 years after it happened. Abby also willingly engages in cheating with her ex when he's committed to someone else (Owen is also guilty there) and straight up says "good" when she learns that the girl she was about to slit the throat of was pregnant, only being stopped by Lev who gives her a look that screams "What the actual fuck is wrong with you". That goes well beyond a need for revenge and is just straight up psychotic. Again, I wanna be clear that I'm not ragging on you for liking this games narrative at all, people's likes and dislikes are completely subjective at the end of the day. This is just to help give reasoning for why I and a lot of other people didn't like how this game handled it's narrative
But he left a family on the side of the road in part 1 before he even knew what was happening. He wouldn’t just forget to be paranoid if he was paranoid during the prologue
@Alexander Gill he lived in a 100% safe community with little kids running around and electricity while the only thing he cared about was bonding with ellie. There's a bunch of arguments on why the game is bad or why Joel's death is bad but this is literally bottom of the barrel
