Thanks to our friends at HotCars for the great article: www.hotcars.com/track-attack-canada-pits-718-cayman-gt4-vs-camaro-zl1-1le-for-track-ready-supremacy/
Yeap...I feel he should have done the autocross portion too...the ZL1 did a 7: 16 at Nurburgring versus the gt4s time of 7: 28...so that Camaro can perform at at least the same level as the gt4...I detect a little Porsche fanboy bias in him.
@@AKDevilman Used to own a 911 and loved it. But no fanboy bias here. The GT4 is a great car but not enough bang for the buck IMO. I actually loved the ZL1 1LE so much I bought one over a GT3 a few months after making this video.
@@gregoryrobins7725 hmm i can see that. One has pants hanging down, boxers showing and the other has glasses, button up shirt, pants at waste line, belt buckled, and shined shoes. Lmao
The fact that she is so surprised by the performance of the Camaro tells me that she is the wrong person to review it, has she been hiding under a rock for 3 years? Everyone knows the ZL1 1LE is a beast that eats the lunch of sports cars costing 3 times as much.
It definitely caught me off gaurd when she said that until the ZL1 1LE spec the Camaro has fallen on the back burner for track cars built by Chevy. You definitely have to consider the release of the Z28 in 2014 that was so race focused they didnt even offer AC and a radio stock. Then in 2017 the SS 1LE was one of the best track cars on the market when considering price for performance.
@@AllIsWell_22 How about we see both cars on fresh PSC2's and see that what the lap times, and slalom times are. A consolidated time would be interesting.
So...there was a Porsche expert as a guest but no representation from the Camaro team. Not sure if it is fair. There is so much engineering that went into the ZL1/1LE with a story that was barely told.
The ZL1 is nowhere near 100k and the Porshe is way over 100k with options. The difference is close to 60k. You can almost buy two zl1s for the porshe. I am not hating the cars. I actually want both but you cant compare them as "if you had 100k" lol
Exactly. The GT4 is about three to four times the cost of the ZL1 now. Even more so than my 18 SS 1LE, but I bet the results would be similar and more disheartening to the porsche guy if a $50,000 MSRP camaro SS 1LE beat him
I really like the GT4, but let’s be real here. An SS 1LE is a better match for it. The ZL1 1LE would easily win every performance category with equal drivers & fresh tires. Wouldn’t even be close
When comparing cars for the sake of saying best for track you should use same driver. Both of you could have driven both cars to see the real results. Did you guys use same driver for hot lap? EDIT- Both cars should have fresh tires. I'm really enjoying the track comparisons just want best fair test from both vehicles.
@@colincaissie8724 Then can we have a rematch with fresh tires? There is no reason a ZL1 1LE should be slower than the C8 Z51! In addition, where are the stock Good Year 3R tires that came with the car stock? With all these ‘holes’ the lap time is suspect.
@@AllIsWell_22 we source the cars from the public. They are not provided by the manufacturers or dealers. We can only work with what we are given. The owner of the Camaro is an awesome guy and tracks his car a lot. He put in a good season this year and the tires were done. We are working on getting cars supplied through other sources. But we are still a brand new channel working with a shoestring budget and we are still building our network. Takes time to build greatness ;)
Launch control sucks in these cars. For the 1LEs it is set at 3500 I believe. Even with my SS 1LE I will easily blow the rear tires loose and have traction control kicking in. The sideways run was definitely in PTM Race mode. For these, it's better to launch around 2000 rpms or so due to the torque and then roll on. Also in Sport 2 or Race because the other modes will regulate power significantly.
I own a ZL1. Clear winner to me. A car for under 70k that kicks butt on the European super cars that cost double at minimum....Chevrolet has done an amazing job for the price. I like the run done at Nurburgring with a 1LE, in 7 minutes 16.04 seconds, it was amazing. Bill Wise is an animal behind the wheel, a video of that day is well worth viewing.
Bang for the buck it is the best car out there at the moment in our opinion. The ZL1 1LE even had a potential lap time of 7:13 at the Nurburgring according to Al Oppenheiser in an interview he did when the Camaro was released.
This channel has so much potential..... you need to have one professional driver if you are going to compare times though. Having 2 different drivers with different skill sets competing in 2 different cars like you did in the autocross and the first drag race is pointless if you are trying to prove which car is faster or handles better. Hopefully you guys fix this issue quickly. Other than that videos are very well put together! Love the racing drone footage as well. Editing is top notch. Nice work!
Odd spin (at times) on the results where the Camaro is clearly a superior track car and will be faster 99% of the time. Pretending that they're "close" is rather silly. Those few seconds are a big deal. At least they gave it the win at the end.
Thanks for producing the comparison. I'd choose the GT4 but the ZL1 V8-supercharger whine sounds great. I'd like to see the future GT4 RS use the same 911 GT3 motor.
98% of drivers have a budget limit, I would recommend to compare cars of similar price. ZL1 1LE is 1/2 the purchase price the GT4. Compare the $70k(?) ZL1 1LE to a $70k Porsche
Very biased test. I owned a GT4 and now I have a C7 Z06/Z07 trk pack. I did over 20+ track days in advanced (Red) run group in the GT4. And now I have 8 track days on my Z06. My Z06 is 8 secs faster on a 3.1 mile track. Both cars running Cup2 tires. A 1LE is maybe 1 sec slower than a Z07. Either your driver is was intimidated by the power of the 1LE or you had bad tires. No other review has these cars so close in lap times. One last thing. My GT4 was $92K USD when I bought it and my Z06 was $69K. Both cars with less than 6,000 miles when I bought them. There is no better bang for the buck than a 1LE or Z06 for track work and even cabin comfort features. Save your money. Get a Cayman GTS if you have to have a Cayman.
Thanks for the comment, the tires on the ZL1 1LE had seen better days for sure ... the theoretical time was a good 3-4 seconds faster. With newer tires it would have been easily a few seconds faster than the GT4
Awesome video.. I really wish he would have used the Camaro on the auto cross just to see the difference using the same driver. Cool stuff though. Camaro for me cost:fun ratio is just insane.
@@Peel5000 Have you driven the zl1 1LE? It’s an amazing car with unbelievable refinement especially for an American car and for the price . I’ve driven almost everything and owned a lot of cars . I’m hugely impressed with the Camero!!
When you can’t even pronounce the manufacturer’s name correctly...it sets the stage. Then the autocross...the Camaro hits a cone, is seconds slower than the GT4 but he considers it equal “so everybody wins”....the drag race...Camaro with significantly more HP should have devoured the GT4 in a straight line......but it lost two of the three runs, so he changes the way he launches the Cayman to make sure the Camaro wins one....LMAO....IMO this reviewer is not qualified .....and this hack job is not worth your time watching.
I love Porsche but I purchased a 2021 Camaro ZL1 with the 1LE track package because it is a better buy for the money especially for me because I road course race. With fresh Goodyear F1 tires it will destroy many more expensive cars on a road course, no disrespect to shawty but I would love to see this with 2 equal qualified racers
I’m sorry man but I’ve done 57 track events and have owned both a ZL1 and ZL1 1LE and there isn’t a GT4 on earth minus car cup car ( which I’ve battled ) that I couldn’t slaughter. I’ve driven 17 road courses. This is a biased test with differing drivers. Even a GT3 can’t stand up to a ZL1. Anyone who tracks knows this is not accurate.
@@TrackAttackCanada Im wondering if the Automatic is the better version to launch and drag. Manual may be the better track choice, but Ive heard auto usually better for drag.
Did you put the camaro into launch mode? It sure looks like it wasn't because mine does the same thing unless I put it into drag mode. If you did I can only chock it up to the track and tires. Granted the gt4 has a little more weight over the rear tires too...
@@AKDevilman Yes we tried launch mode in drag and track settings. Neither worked well. The tires were too heat cycled and the track didn't have that great traction either. But we found a way to win the race in the end ;)
It is a true GT car, because it is a Porsche GT car. This whole argument around bespoke GT engines is BS. Same argument that people made about the '16-'17 n55 vs s55 M2's. The experience is what matters.
I think that it would be more fair to compare the two ME sport cars: Corvette C8 Z51 VS Porsche Cayman GT4. And to compare the two oustanding muscle cars: Shelby GT500 VS the Camaro ZL1.
@@MrRicard75 I was referring to the slalom course where the 718 got better times . Also real close on the track corse only 4 tenths of a second difference . I will agree the driver is everything and it should have been the same person to get true results .
Porsche really didn't want the GT4 outshinning the GT3 lol Hopefully when the PDK comes out for the 718 GT4, it'll be a game changer. So I'll just stick with my 718 CS for now since I'm doing about the same time for a lesser price
Fantastic show, enjoyed the layout and honesty. I'm incredibly biased as I own a ZL1 1LE but spending a lot of time on track, I can say the GT4 eats less tires/brakes and can go all day long on track in just about any condition. The ZL1 1LE gobbles up tires, brakes, gas and can sometimes get a little hot pushed 9/10ths for too many laps. If price wasn't an option, we'd all go with a GT3 RS :) I have a feeling the Porsche rep was comfortable with this outcome because he knows the GT4 RS is on the way... Good show, will subscribe!
I have a ZL1 1LE too. Haven’t tracked it yet. Disappointing to hear it overheats as with 11 heat exchangers I thought that problem was addressed especially after all the issues with the C7 z06 …
@@howarda4242 The ZL1 1LE can get hot on a very warm day (90F degrees+) when being pushed 9/10ths for more than 5-6 laps at COTA. It never, ever shuts down, it never ever gives up, it just protects itself by reducing the power the engine makes. In MOST people's hands and honestly in most track conditions, this will rarely show up. You've got a great car and it will be a joy to track, trust me. Physics are unavoidable, 3800lbs of car is just a lot of work for the brakes/tires at extreme levels of track demands. Again, not at all a knock on the car, the chassis dynamics of the 6th gen Camaro are near the top of the chart for any car I've driven with an MSRP under 175K.
@@jeffcollop Thanks for the info. I look forward to tracking it. I used to have a 991.2 Gt3 Rs. Offered a lot for it so I sold it. Hoping this will be almost as good at a fraction of the price . Cheers
@@howarda4242 So... I now have a 991.2 GT3, so it's like we switched places. :) I can tell you the operational cost will go up as the GT3 is much easier on tires/brakes/fluids. The ZL1 1LE is a little less accurate in terms of car placement and you're going to have to relearn how the car transitions weight. (hint, you're going to have to wait past apex before you even breath on the throttle) :) Enjoy it's a great car.
This didnt seem to be very fair to the Camaro, the Cayman's driver was more skilled. No disrespect to her, but this review should have used either the same driver or equal skill drivers.
There is no rear multi link suspension, its a bespoke rear strut arrangement reinforced and made specifically for the GT4/spyder. This is not like the 911 GT3/GT2 which has the rear multilink suspension.
I think it's because porsche did not want to redesign the standard cayman suspension completely for the gt4. They do sell a aftermarket multilink upgrade for the 981 gt4 though.
7 seconds in the slalom was not realistic due to the fact she has next to zero experience driving in the slalom. 1 le will definitely do better than what was presented here.
Jen's surprise at the camaro doing so well tells you just how ignorant she is. No one who's been paying attention would be shocked at the camaro ZLE or 1LE.
Just because the camaro has way more power than the porsche doesn't mean it is automatically faster... Just like the drag race showed originally, it doesn't matter how much power you have if you can't get traction. Same goes for the weight of the camaro. I am very surprised everyone didn't think the porsche would sweep the camaro on the track. Especially since they are about the same in a straight line, and the track is more for handling vs straight-line speed. Regardless, I have an 18 SS 1LE, and I love to surprise people in this car. So many people have told me that the heavy Camaro can't corner... then they are pleasantly surprised when I am on their tail and just waiting for them to move. Plus, it is awesome to keep up or exceed the capabilities of cars that cost 4x more or greater.
I think you need better drivers IMO. Look at the Nuremberg numbers on the Camaro and it obvious it’s a much faster car. I have seen the ZL11lE KEEP UP WITH A GT3RS. For the price the Camaro is much better buy.
Our host Colin is one of the best in the area ... the ZL1 tires had seen too many track days unfortunately. It had a potential time of 1:14 which would be more in line with the expected performance. We'll have it back next season with fresh tires to post an updated time.
Good job guys, quality is coming along! One point, the guest audio needs to be the same, get another mic! Jars the experience a little. Other than that good job!
I currently own both Porsches and Corvettes. If you owned a 911 as stated please pronounce Porsche correctly. The Germans are very sensitive to this!!! I raced on a corporate sponsored Porsche team back in the 80’s. The brand name is pronounced “Por Shaaw”. I cannot tell you how many Germans that I offended by calling it Porsch like you both did!!! Community relationships are important. Keep in mind that Chevrolet has always provided the best bang for the buck. Hence why I have owned 11 Corvettes. Value in the ZL1 1LE will drop significantly over 5-7 years in comparison to the GT4.
We're not too concerned about losing any Porsche sponsorships over the pronunciation of the brand. Haha. As for the resale of the Camaro, GM's generally don't hold their value like Porsche's do. However we believe the ZL1 1LE will be a different situation with it being a rare car and the best Camaro money could ever buy. The next gen Camaro will ditch the V8 in favor of hybrid tech meaning a supercharged V8 will be in high demand pretty soon.
Constructive criticism - I really enjoyed this, though we could have used more numbers, specifically curb weights and how that weight impacts cornering. Sometimes videos break down into boring numbers-fests lol but I think some numbers to establish a baseline can help
i used to want a GT4 when i had my 987.2 but with nothing added to either of these cars how can you not go with a car thats $30,700 cheaper with 236 more HP? and with the prices in 2022 i think that gaps more likely to be around $50,000+
it's only 30k cheaper when you put zero options on the Porsche which is basically impossible. In reality, a new GT4 is going to be 45k+ more. Absolutely insane but that's the price you pay to drive a low production luxury sports car.
@@neckofthewoods24 right, but it has nothing to do with 2022. In fact, the GT cars are getting marked up like $80k on average so the price diff is closer to $130k.
Aaaargh, it is Por-shah', not "Porsh". I have been fighting this battle since 1967. The 904, 906, 907, 910, 917, 956/962, RS Spyder and 919 are all groaning...
From what i understand the Chevys tires are spent . Incredible. Idk ,but to me this makes the Chevy look soooo much better . Id much rather see a video on this chevy with newer broke in tires go against the .ore expensive 911 model .
@@TrackAttackCanada , or yall just come back with a ZL1 with the 10 speed which I'm hearing is perfect on the track. Great vids too btw! Enjoy the work yall have put into the episodes!
Thanks for the great content here. One thing you didn’t cover is heat soak. I wonder how much each car would be affected after a couple of hours on track? I also wonder why the Camaro was bogging off the line? Did you guys figure out why it was doing that? Is that a common issue?
Apples to Oranges. NA Voodoo engine vs. blown higher displacement LSx, while closer in cost...? I'd like to see the GT500 and 1LE (while different costs completely) on a longer, higher speed track where there will be some airflow. Interesting cars all of them either way.
The Cayman is technically a GT car: a Grand Tour is a 2 door with a 4 Seater, like the 911, even though, the Cayman is identified as a GT4. Kind of how Porsche identified the Taycan Turbo S, which is an all electric powered 4 door variant sister to the Panamera. Thanks for great footage and the Drone is a plus.
Test drove a 1le. The interior is horrible and Stevie Wonder has better vision. I'm 6'4" which might have something to do with it but just couldn't find a driving position that was comfortable and decent vision, the windshield is extremely short. Went out and found a used Carrera S. Couldn't be happier!
And the GT4 is only $35k more than that Camaro.. and I currently have a 981 GT4 and I sold a 2022 ZL1/1LE to buy it.. in fairness the Camaro needed a better driver (one with more Camaro seat time)..
Editors note on GTS power band is incredibly insightful. His experience with PDK, the previous Turbo, and the family of cars demonstrates he knows the car he is driving. Well stated.
Colin will be doing all the performance testing in season 2 to keep a level playing field between all the cars. And we have some pretty interesting cars coming!
So you put a cart driver behind the wheel of one of the bet road cars made,and expect her to drive the car at its limit. But you put professional Porsche driver in the Porsche..really fair. With a professional driver in the Camaro this would have been a great video.
Colin has many motorsports trophies at home collecting dust in a box to prove that he is qualified to unleash the GT4's potential. That was a very good time for the GT4 at this track. The Camaro should have been much quicker but unfortunately it had old heat cycled tires on it.
Not sure this guy understands the GT4. He’s the first person to not be amazed by it and he’s disappointed that it’s not a GT3. That’s 50k more… did he just say he would rather the turbo 4??
@@TrackAttackCanada I agree that the gearing is wayyy too tall… that’s a problem across the (true) Porsche lineup minus the “T”models. The engine is a packaging and performance marvel. No it’s not a muscle car engine but from a balance and delivery standpoint it’s pretty high up there for an NA power plant.
The auto cross race is great for a Honda Civic or Veloster...not track beasts like Porsche, Lamborghini, Vette and ZL1 1LE. This is really disappointing to under use the potential of those cars. You have a full track there to use Cayuga, why not run full laps and measure against comparable lap times! Using an inexperienced driver for testing as well? That driving and times were not representative of 1LE potential. I was really was excited for this channel and a sub since beginning. But I won’t stay too long
@@danny200mph5 The GT4 set a great time on that track. The Camaro was wearing a set of heat cycled tires and still beat the Porsche on a tight technical track. If they Camaro had fresh rubber it could have picked up another second for sure. This certainly showed how the Camaro not only wins in the straight line but it can hang in the corners with the best of them ;)
1:17:8 in a 2020 gt4 manual on cayuga is a great time, that's actually one of the quickest ive seen anything lower than 1:18 in that car is a nice run. So nice run first off, but 0.4 diff to a car that has 50% more hp shows that porsche punches hard for what its given. Fastest verified time I've ever come across btw is 1:17:42 for a 981 GT4 bone stock on cup2. So 30hp down on a 2020. It would be interesting to see a new 2023 with PDK on cup2 it may shave off some more time and even get this car into the 1:16 range
Thanks Matty P ... In fairness the GT4 had a significant tire advantage. The ZL1's tires had seen better days ... and we've subsequently run a 1:15 with a stock ZL1 1LE. So it's a bigger delta but likely not $40K+ in terms of value.
I REALLY hate when self-proclaimed Porsche fans pronounce the brand "Porsh". Are you REALLY a fan when you don't pronounce the name correctly?? The Porsche brand is all about passion and exquisite attention to detail. You'd think as an enthusiast, the least you could do is say it right.
Also, having two different people in each car does not prove a car is better. A Driver makes the Car. Not the other way around. 1 person may attack a course much more aggressively than another person. So timing each person proves nothing. You want to know which car is better. Then you Personally Drive both. With the same Aggressiveness. And give them a fair shake.
