This Brand New Powder Coating Method! Gives us more control of our BHN. Without Tempering or Annealing our cast powder coated and sometimes water quenched bullets! NICE TO BE IN CONTROL!
Elvis, the bullets that you powder coated and heated to 400 will test a lower bhn for a couple days but will return after about a week to the original bhn before heating them in the oven. Using 3 separate bhn testers I checked this on 19bhn bullets. After cooking on 400 for 20 min I then rechecked them on day 2/3/4/5/6/7 and all on day 7 had returned to within 1 bhn of cast hardness. Just what I have found. Something else to consider is the bhn test. It is putting an indentation in the surface. The coating is a very thin layer and softer than the lead itself therefore your bhn test on the coated bullets are not accurate. This is why I put non coated bullets in to heat with my coated ones and these are the ones you need to test and they will tell you what u need to k ow
I gotta say thanks for the info in the latest video elvis. I only cut my temp back to about 300 but what makes it so awsome is afterward i felt good about takin my rifle bullets out right after the powder coating flows over the bullets. Sure enough after the first load i observed what u said about the bullets easy release from the tray when i dumped the bullets into the quench. on my second load of rifle bullets i just tossed them all in the basket like pistol bullets. To my overwelming joy they all came out perfect just like i had placed all my rifle bullets on the tray carefully making sure that they didnt touch. So now im saving alot of time and aggravation when coating my rifle bullets. Thanks for all the great work you do and share with us all. Since i discovered your channel its become my favorite on youtube. Inicially it was the everyman approach thats so refreshing and inviting. That is still the case. the info and the process you use make your videos enlightening, second to none. I believe the simple and honest why or why not questions are not asked enough by most but you sir have not lost that inquisitive nature. you continually demonstrate that the solutions to most problems are small quests. Just a simple matter of the can do spirit, effort and common sence. Put simply anything is possible if you just try. For most unbridled possibility is a natural instinct that is dimmed by the sinacism developed with time. Your enjoyment of life and its journey is evident by the laughter and joy you show in every video. You are an inspiration on so many levels. Thanks again and dont ever change.
Between your other "marathon" video on powder coating bullets, and this one, I have to say that these two videos are the most informative and useful videos I've yet seen on the subject.
Thank you sir! This is the best method so far, did a pile of 9mm boolits today and they came out great and broke right apart. I have piles of boolits for .357, .44 and .45 to do and this is how they will be done
Great work, Elvis...!! Other commenters have been saying that PC works with shorter oven times, but you're pushing new ground with the lower temps... Gung Ho...!!
FortuneCookie45LC .. Yeah.. some crazy stuff with unexpected results so far.. Some more data and testing is needed. I'm sure I won't be the only one with good feedback.. I'm excited about what I'm seeing. . this could be a great option to control our bhn. More to come! ; )
Elvis - I was just putting another order in with Eastwood, so I bounced your PC bullets off of 'em just to get info from the source to add to yours...They said that the 400 for 20 minutes was the recommendation for car parts. But the tech said that doing other stuff like bullets, the temps and times could certainly be adjusted. What he said is that if it works, it's OK. Have a great day, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC ..Yeah, I guess I was never much for following the rules huh! ; ) I have an epoxy base pc coming. it's a much lower temp cure.. Might be just what we're looking for. My biggest hope is that it coats using the swirl method! ; ) a lot of times when someone says "no way" it just means they haven't tried anything different! thanks for the feedback from Eastwood. ...
@@elvisammo Based on several bullet casting books that I've read on the subject, wheel weight is nearly devoid of TIN. It does have about 4% antimony on average. The amount of gain from quenching wheel weight is minimal. It would be better to add about 1%-2% of TIN. This will improve BHN after quenching.
Great news Elvis thank you so much I'm going to make a batch this weekend of 30 cal 150gr and will try your new method on 100 of them if it kicks but for me I'll do the other 900 the same method. Keep these videos coming. You da man!
elvis ammo I shot them this weekend and they shot great. Really tight groupings and my barrel check with my borescope looks fine as well. This method seems to work well. I'll do some more testing.
I did experiment with powder coating my .25 cal slugs and pellets for my air guns.I did them at 160 degrees for 20 minutes and they turned pretty good.This was the first time I did it.I have a 350 Legend on the way and plan to cast bullets for it.I also have plans on getting a 450 BushMaster.
toby emerson ..that's awesome! I knew you folks were out there! Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. . I was hoping to here from you guys!!! ; )
hey Elvis, awesome video! you are the mad scientist of reloading! if only you could win the Nobel peace prize for this! Obama won one for doing nothing! look forward to your follow up videos on this, maybe my husband won't burn his fingers as often thanks
Kaye Szymanski ... Hey.. thanks , I like the money that comes with the prize. .. My dog took a dump this morning. . That was greater than anything Obama done... ; ) Lower temps and shorter times save the burn and power bill!
Awesome! This is an awesome contribution to the PCing community! Great work brother!(I've had plans of doing some BHN/casting/PCing videos in a couple months - this will certainly be a great addition to that.)
Loads of Bacon .. hey man! hopefully this is as good as it looks! time is either your best friend or worse enemy! I'm optimistic! so far so good! I'm working out and eating my bacon! things are looking up! ; )
Great job on figuring out time and temperature for keeping your bullets hard while curing the powder the bullets look grate...shake and bake is the best method the elvisammo method 👍
Spot on Elvis Ammo! It was kinda funny listening to you because the method you speak of is the exact way I've been doing it. Low temp (200-250) and just keep an eye on the shine. Great information for everyone!! Keep up the good work buddy!
Thanks! This may even be a benefit to us crazy people that stand our bullets one at a time ...... the heat can get to the coating faster and does not need to penetrate the lead on one to heat the next one. Hmmmmm something to think about (I get in trouble when I think, I try not to do it much) . All kidding aside, you may have discovered something that will help all of us and I for one appreciate the time and effort you must have put in to this. THANK YOU!
Hey Elvis, seems great minds think alike. I've been doing a similar process all along. I usually set mine to around 275* for about 10 minutes. I'll lower it to 250* and try to keep a little more bhn. I use a mixture of range scrap and ww since ww are hard to come by in my area.
Really enjoyed your vid..could you consider in the future doing one comparing powder coating pure soft lead bullets with your wheel weight bullets ...with some range testing comparing accuracy and penetration ...that would be very interesting ...even with buckshot ...Thanks
You were about to tell us the BHN difference before and after you water quenched the PC bullets at the lower temp at 18:55. Then you drifted to cotton on the bullets from a towel and you left out the BHN difference. It may help your viewers if you can outline your results down and show that to us in the video so you don't get sidetracked so much but I understand your excitement. We really appreciate the time you put into this. Thank you.
Hey Elvis the pioneer! that's really good info and thank you for sharing it with all of us casters and powder coaters. I have some 230gr I'm gonna try this on tonight. Thanks bud. I'll let you know how they come out.
Two questions: 1) Did you do a BHN test on your powder coated bullets that were water hardened out of the mold, cooked the usual 450* method, THEN water quenched out of the oven? I wonder if water quenching then after the cook restores any of the hardness. 2) Since we are powder coating the bullets, does the actual bullet hardness matter anymore? My purpose in casting hard bullets is as a substitute for lube, and preventing barrel leading. 2a) In fact, would a softer powder coated bullet actually be beneficial, as it would be able to better expand under pressure to form a better seal to the barrel?
Hello Elvis. Long time. Good video. Now, I'm going to throw in a monkey wrench. Physics - water quenching does indeed make cast bullets harder, but SUSTAINED hardness depends upon the composition of the alloy. What is happening in the oven when powder coating amounts to "tempering". Water (or for steel, oil) initiates the contraction of the molecules. Reheating in the oven "removes" the brittleness of the metal and, after tempering, increases the durability of the metal. Note the word "metal" - still applies for lead. Tempering, by definition, removes SOME hardness BUT increases durability. The sustainability of hardness is dependent upon composition, and any remaining hardness is dependent upon the temperature of the "tempering" process. In other words, the least amount of heat is best. So, you've done well. Now one more thing. "Reloaderman" has come up with a "wet" method for powder coating. Per 200 bullets (he's doing 9mm), use 2&1/2 cc's of powder. Toss in 3 cc's of acetone. Shake with lid on for 10 seconds. Repeat for seven seconds with lid off, and then scatter bullets on a drying tray till dry. Once dry (just a few minutes), bake in the oven as per usual (400 degrees for 20 minutes). Break apart and allow to air cool and repeat with a second coat. He says this does everything people talk about, but keeps powder out of the air and minimalizes use of powder. I'm thinking that second coat could undergo a water quench and end up with the best of both worlds. Want to check it out?.........
You've hooked me on powder coating. Best is once their coated I'm no longer handling lead. The lower temps and times are very important too. I'm "off grid" and my reload room is in my shop, separate from the house. I have to run a small generator to use my toaster oven.
20 min is a bit overkill. If you want to see exactly how much time you need, get powder coat "clear" and coat some bullets. They'll appear Snow white, then when you cook them sit and watch. They'll go from snow, to wet looking, to normal lead in just a couple minutes. You can watch in real time how long they actually need to cook.
Awesome, brother. I've been following you and the methods are sound. I'm partial to the Eastwood semi-gloss Black. Bullets look like the old Federal Ny-Clads. Can't wait to try the new technique. Thanks for your efforts.
I have been buying powder from The Powder Coat Store on Amazon. Their instructions say 400 for 10 min. Watching through the glass the powder melts and coats the bullets in less than 5 minutes at 400 degrees F. I pull the bullets at about 7 minutes when I see a good shine. In fact I did batches of 500gr Lee .459's today for my 458 SOCOM. That's a lot of bulk in the oven with those big pills. I stand them up like Loads of Bacon and still water quench. The powder from harbor freight is cheap and is hit and miss. Pay the $15-$19 bucks on Amazon and go with the good stuff. The color selection is crazy big. My favorite is a candy blue. I'll definitely have to try your low temp method and see how it works. Thanks for thinking out of the box Elvis. Sorry for the rambling.
Could the reason the BHN dropped so much be that the lead tester is actually testing the hardness of the polymer coating rather than the lead that is under it?
I have found if you heat them till they gloss over then 1-2 minutes longer is all that is needed. Large batch or small batch doesn't matter. That point where they move from fuzzy to glossy is the key not the time. Id have PCd the same quantity of bullets in 1 batch, but, moved them from the oven to a water bath, thinking I could preserve some of the hardness. They seem to shoot fine subsonic 800-1100 fps. I don't know about faster. You are right, good powder makes all the difference.
Hey Elvis ! First let me say this I can't thank you and F.C. with Johnny also for what you guys do ,with the help you guys give Us in this .I will pass this along to all my reload freinds (just make them think I am smart ) not ! thank you again My God Bless You and Yours .
Nice job bud.........In the many many years of casting bullets using standard WW's, air cooled they'll average out around 9-10 BHN and water quenched I'll get 14-15 BHN. I've never hit 21 BHN which is about what air cooled linotype runs. I bought an LBT BHN tester from Veral Smith way back in the day (probably 1981) and it has a direct readout. I've tested and swapped bullets back and forth with guys who had the Lee and saw (sometimes) wildly varing results.........just my 2. Never tried the Saeco......
thanks for liking my sign Nick J... took some time and paper to make that graphic appear!! : ) I'm not sure if it's a change method always, as much as it gives us more control when we need our bullets to remain hard as possible ... one more tool in our arsenal!!!
Very Nice! Good work Elvis, Your hard work and testing is appreciated by all of us that are powder coating like me. Thanks again. I am binge watching your vids to save me a ton of time and misspent money Thanks to your EARL laboratory :)
hey The Reloader Dude... Water quenching after powder coating does nothing for the BHN. But it would be possible to heat treat them close to the melting point for a couple hours or more. Then quench.
Wondering if powder coating produces advanced wear on barrel. Paper patch bullets wear the barrel though one would think paper wears hard iron or steel? But people have written about it. Wonder if whatever the coating is made from will produce accelerated barrel wear? For the average hunter shooting a few rou ds to check zero then whatever is shot during probably not. Hobby shooters shooting few hundred a month...probably but serious shooters shooting 500 a week maybe do....
Wow great news. Elvis, the powder coat jacket looks a little softer and more malleable with this method. In a very good way. Is that true? I had another idea. Heat the bullets with a quartz heater outside of an oven, that way maybe the heat will not ever penetrate very deep but still get hot enough to melt the coating.
heattreating the lead bullet in a oven was a method to hardening the bullet ,if you heat them to cure the bullet with powder coating ,just wat hotter and then up in cold water. seems to work wel too
Elvis. You can get up to about 30 BHN if you do this: cook them at about 470 for one hour after powder coat and sizing. Quench. Wait about a week. There you go.
Old reply here! Current method is cast, quench, coat/bake 400/20min, quench, gc /size, load. You are the first I've heard to heat treat after coating! I cast 300g for my 454 w g/c, coww alloy, coated and really want it harder, and have been wondering about that. Does it burn/degrade the coating, or change dimension? Only problem, my toaster says 450deg max...
Well Thats Just Great..... How do I explain to my wife that I need new equipment if the old stuff will work???? Thanks for the info. I guess I need to get casting again and try this method. See you at the range, and stay safe.
Hey monkeyship74401... You just have to tell the wife it's like the equivalent of a product that makes ya look ten years younger!! She'll understand! : )
Great research brother, very good to know. I had noticed that after about 12-15 mins in the toaster oven that my cast bullets looked finished, but thought maybe the extra time in the oven was part of the powder coat curing process. Looks like the extra time us not required at all, also was tempted to reduce the heat but never tried that either. Don't forget your safety glasses when pounding out those bullets, a lot there that could fragment and wind up in one of the eyes. Again awesome work dude. Thanks a million.
I don't have a BHN tester. I need to get one. I've only ever used range scrap lead and I've always assumed bullet lead recycled would make good bullets lol. Never had any issues so far. Wheel weights are softer I believe. What are some of the issues with using powder coated cast bullets with a BHN around 11? Does it limit how hot you can load em? I learned the first time I ever powder coated not to dump bullets fresh out of the oven on a towel. I dump em out in a pan now. Might try dumping em in water next time. Thanks for sharing your research! Awesome job!
Hey there CountryBoyPrepper! Yeah scrap range scrap is good stuff. And nothing to complain about for sure if it's working for your application! But water quenched clip on wheel weights COWWS. can far exceed them in BHN. Your usual suspect comes in at around 12- 14 BHN after water quenching range scrap. These numbers can vary a little because of the random mix. I've got cowws that have exceeded 26 BHN. This new process is a nice find to be able to mitigate (like that word) any loss where bullet hardness will benefit. More options here! I have a feeling we will learn a great deal more as others apply this method and share results. Some folks are already having way better results with the quality of PC coverage dumping them in the water. almost perfection. As with anything their are trade offs. This passes the smash test with flying colors but not the solvent test... Not even for sure if this matters? But giving you the information. I have fired soft lead with pretty good results at higher velocity with no leading. but some high pressure loads seem to like harder bullets even at lower velocities? Some folks like to mix cowws with their range scrap to increase BHN! Hope this helps a little! Thanks for being a part of the conversation!!
I like to dump them in the water even if I baked them at 400 degrees. Recently I powder coated a batch of 500 bullets in 3 batches and not a single of them had a mark from mesh tray! I use glove to knock stuck ones in to bucket of water I think it has to do with what type of powder coat paint you use, because HF red will leave marks.
Instead pf water-quenching your bullets to get the high hardness you want how about just "alloy" the high hardness you want to begin with? I alloy 18+ Hardness all the time for "rifle" subsonic loads and then you do not have to worry about what the heat from coating them does to the bullets....
Powder coat can be cured by hot air or a Halogen lamp and it only needs to get hot enough for the coating to melt without heating the lead much. And I don't remember you saying if water quenching after powder coating restored any of the hardness, so did it?
I don't think the engine heat is going to be enough to hurt the tempering of the bolt over time. An engine only runs at about 200 degrees at the high end. Exhaust manifolds may reach 500-700 degrees on a average vehicle under normal operation temp. Even that shouldn't be a problem supposing your using OEM equivalent bolts. You'd have to heat those bolts to 1200-1500 maybe even 2000 degrees before you had worry about them being softened.
So now the previous testing that you have done with powder coated bullets and testing for expansion..... That changes now that the bullets retain their hardness ....correct?
Check your guns bore diameter, size your bullets accordingly, lube or powder coat, and you can shoot some hot loaded ammo without gas checks. And I've never seen wheel weight at 21 bhn that's lynotype bhn. undersized bullets cause leading in your bore. love your videos Elvis I'm a South Carolina boy too.
Hey joewcolt.. Yep.. Barrels been slugged... all my lee bullets are well over bore... I don't use gas check either.. works great.. how bout this I have some wheel weight lead that is 26 BHN after water quenching... : ) Thanks my Carolina Friend!!
elvis ammo I believe you man your a smart guy or I wouldn't watch your videos but I've never had wheel weight at that bhn and I never mix clip on with stick on pure lead.
The tempering seems like a good thing to me as the bullets will be more likely to expand and create a larger wound channel (unless of course you are hunting rhinos in which case you need em hard for penetration). ;)
Hey Antonio Wright.. I've heard of others trying that. It's harder than it sounds. once they start to flow it's hard to get em to move. One of our viewers even tried a rotisserie oven with a cage full of bullets slowly turning.. They turned out a mess!!! : ) But was cool to see and they get an atta boy for trying!!!
Just wondering if you tried the lacquer thinner test? I was using harbor freight red baked at 300 degrees for 20 minutes, the bullets passed the smash test and looked good but I got horrible leading in glock barrels. I tried the lacquer thinner test, rubbed a bullet on a rag with lacquer and the powder coat rubbed off immediately, powder coat wasn't cured. Coated more bullets with hf red and baked at 400 for 20 minutes, passed the smash test and also the lacquer test, only a very slight hint of PINK on the rag. Loaded and shot the ones baked at 400 and no leading in any of my glock barrels. Just wondering if your powder coat is really cured at that low of a temp. The lacquer thinner test is the only way to find out if your powder coat is really cured. Look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks!!
Hi. Thanks a lot for your assume tutorial videos. Im new in the way of coating bullets. Actually i haven’t done it yet. So I’m learning, and you taught in a very pedagogical way. By the way, your accent is very nice. Me myself live close to the North pole. Scandinavia. Thanks Elvis. 😊👍🏻 Greetings Peder
I'm confused. I thought the point of powder coating bullets was to fundamentally change the interface between the bullet and the barrel. That being the case, why worry about brinnel hardness? If you're shooting an unjacketed bullet, a soft bullet is going to deform more favourably than a hard bullet which, I thought was the point of an unjacketed bullet (as well as economy). ?? If the powder coating, and lubing, form up the interface between the bullet and the barrel, then lead fouling is a non-issue. So ...?? BTW, I'm a novice so perhaps I'm missing something here that everyone else knows. Sorry.
Ok. The average BHN with WW is 12-14 without the stick-on WWs.... Quenching out of the mold usually means +2 to +3 ..An average of 16 BHN.. so I'm wondering How he gets 21 BHN ??? Been casting for 40 years now and I have never achieved it. Not that 21 bhn is anything I'd want to mess with. At least not wise in a large bore. The base won't seal and you lead up your bore. Maybe not with powder coating. But still the bullet Esther arbitrate the bore fully in order to spin and fly accurately. But that 21 BHM statement is what gets me. By the way I do watch your other videos kudos for them. I'm interested in Powder Coating and I like your Channel.
Freezer, I'm wondering if throat erosion is in the equation of 300gr, coww alloy, cast quenched, coated quenched again, GC/ sized .452 at 1,600fps out of my ruger SRH 454? They shoot great, no leading, and cheap! All the major retail Big Bore rave about their hard cast... Just wondering about the erosion deal or is clip on wheel weight lead so soft it's not an issue? What's your take.. Thanks
So here is my question... powder coating reduces BHN... Ok... understand... why are we powder coating? for me, it's so I have pretty bullets and no leading in mostly black powder firearms and so far it works. Now if you are able to shoot, as you say... your bullets are fantastic and presumably, this was before you realized that the BHN was reduced by the powder coating process after quenching... and of course you can quench twice can't you... but bottom line, what does bullet hardness have to do with a powder coated bullet if properly sized... and like you mentioned, some folks lube the powder coated bullet with floor wax... some add Boron or whatever that Hex stuff is for more slickness and in my case, I can testify that in one of my guns, proper sizing means a lot for accuracy at distance...meaning .452 shoots more accurately than .451 in a .450 bore... low velocity so maybe not obturating as it could and .452 fills better... but bullet hardness when properly sized... what would BHN matter?
I'm waiting for the day some guy says " I can do it better than that Elvis Ammo guy" and dips the bullets of his fully loaded rounds into powder then puts them in an oven livestream to bake them, and then they start going off! On my next video I'm going to say "Hey RU-vid! It's not that Elvis Ammo here! Hey!". LOL
Also I believe that your methods work mostly because you are blessed by God. Seriously. I notice myself that when I am close to God good things happen in my work. I believe. Maybe others will consider that too.
hey Hans Pcguy... yes sir my friend, I am blessed for sure! and you are too if you are writing this!! : ) I am flawed but related to Perfection! This gives me a source of strength! 😀
How to copper colour coating bullet front part. Please help me. And my gun is old 32 caliber revolver. Please SUJEATION how to coating on revolver. Am indian
So why do you want to keep your bhn so high? I've been doing this commercially for about five years and I don't see why you need such a high bhn, I have never had any problem with having leading in the barrels of my guns. The powder coating keeps the leading down to nothing. In fact we make a pure lead bullet for hunting and they work well. But then we are using HiTech coating, maybe you should use that too. Scruffy
Hey there Elvis, Got a bit of a problem that I need a bit of help from you if possible. The first lot of bullets I powder coated turned out reasonably good but the second lond I tried a different powder and it didn't seem to cover the bullets too well. I even tried to give thema second coat but I wasn't impressed with the outcome. I then tried a third batch with the original powder I used the first time and it seemed to workout better. Just to make sure I gave it a second coat and baked them again and it seemed to turn out better. Can You give me an idea what the problem could be with the second lot of powder that wouldn't stick to the bullets to see if I can fix the problem here at my end. Your help is very much appreciated. Thanks
@@elvisammo i don’t actually know the brand but it’s a powder I bought online locally here in Australia. I was wondering if the container you use to mix the bullets and powder coat would make a difference ? One guy I was watching said to use a container with a number 5 recycling code on it as it produced more static charge when mixing the bullets and powder. I was sure how that would make a difference. Would using a powder coating system to actually spray the powder onto the bullets make a difference? Thanks for the help so far.
Thank you for your dedication and hard work. I have learned a lot from you and Fortune Cookie 45 LC. I too use the Lee hardness tester and have found it to be quite accurate after I learned how to use it properly. With that said, I wanted to say that I just got done casting some 240 gr .44 bullets that I intend on using for Cowboy action shooting. After a weeks time I powder coated them at the 400 degrees for 20 minutes and quenched them. These were air cooled bullets that consisted of 70% pure and 30% wheel weights that were cast at 750 degrees. My goal was to produce a bullet that was around 8 or 9 Bhn that would be shot at 700 fps. I succeeded in that quest and my bullets before and AFTER powder coating and quenching was 8 Bhn. There was no change in hardness. These bullets shot accurately and cleanly out of my Super Blackhawk Hunter and my 4" Redhawk. With that same alloy I water quench a batch trying to get 12 Bhn and that succeed also. I did not test those after powder coating them. I hope this helps you in some way. - HotoGeek
Bonding and looks are not the concern, If the PC is not baked hot enough for long enough they will not be properly/completely cured and they will react to different smokeless powders. Set some PC'd bullets in small containers with different smokeless powder for a few weeks and see what happens. -- Maybe, I am wrong, there's one way to find out.
Elvis, I'm curious where the line is between heat treating and tempering. What do you think about heat treating after PC'ing? What happens to BHN if you PC @ 450F for 90 min? I just had a batch fail the smash test after 14min @ 250F. More testing needed.
I got a turkey/fish fryer that works outside over a propane powered burner. I have some large large lead ingots I bought that need a place to melt down. I was pondering on the wire backet over in an oven/toaster oven. The removable "mesh " is more of a metal area with 30% holes. ; much less than your mesh. Would using this be effective? I havent found a cheap toaster oven and can't do it in the house. Would this make sense??
