Power creep is slowly affecting Overwatch more and more every patch 

I remember when Kiriko doing 120 dmg was absolutely insane. Now look at illari

Imagine they just do a mass nerf patch that would go crazy

I don't like playing tank because I feel I get melted if I make a single mistake and the enemy team is coordinated.

Every dps feels like they're becoming a one shot Even torb now with his increased fire rate. He can two tap you before you can physically register you took any damage whatsoever

Nothing dies. It’s so hard to get a single kill sometimes and I’m screaming they’re 1! And in 2 seconds they’re back to full hp. it’s insane.

Tank is just rock paper scissors at this point

Every time they nerf Ana everybody complains and her playrate drops from 95% to 94.999%

So many problems stem from the switch from 6v6 to 5v5. One shots were okay when each elim had less value, but every elimination can swing fights in OW2. It feels like the only constantly balanced characters are Lucio, Moira, Reaper, Reinhardt, and Winston. The fact that basically every DPS is one tweak away from complete terror isn't a consequence of DPS being too strong, it's a consequence of 85% of the roster being developed for 6v6.

Don’t remember if they addressed this early on, but with one less tank to heal, that leaves a lot of extra healing to go around for everyone else to take from. So overall healing should take a hit if they haven’t done so already.

For some reason I was really enjoying being a tank main when Flats had this take a few months ago. Didn't see what he saw, now here we are and I avoid queueing tank every night. The man knew

I honestly think a simple 10% to 15% reduction (rounding to nicer numbers where needed) to damage and healing game wide could do wonders, obviously you wouldn't leave it there but just taking that initial step to kinda bring everything back and then going from there would be great

They've been doing this over the life of OW1 and 2. More and more you needed constant healing just to live, and being pocketed made you more and more invincible. The game used to be way more level across the board, which left room for more freedom in positioning.

This is pretty much EXACTLY what i was just telling my buddies the other day. Often times anymore dying just doesn't even feel fair and its just not fun, it less feels like you got out skilled and more like you just got dropped without any reasonable way to fight back. At this stage i honestly think that we rather need to raise all health pools, or just flat out drop numbers across the board. Like literally, just flat out slow the game tf back down

Just make every character in the game busted to the point that noone can complain.

Illari is the catalyst that has officially made me uninstall

They need to do what paladins does have a 4 number health bar it makes damage numbers more precise

The only solution is to buff weak characters or nerf the stronger ones. Which then puts us back to square one. My proposed solution is to just bring back 6v6

They should do a wild base reduction to healing, damage, and resistances (armors, shields, etc). And have that run for a week or 2 with competitive turned off or something (like end of a season thing). Just see how it goes and what happens Then slowly reduce the reduction percentage and raise it up to that happy middle ground. And see if it actually helps solve a lot of issues. If it does, then they can go through and properly balancing things to that level (that weren’t balanced on reduction) and try from there. I think the main issue is definitely going to be those push maps and trying to capture point?? But you won’t fully know until they try it out. Sometimes you have to go full “fuck it, we ball” mode.

This short aged so well

The fact of the matter is that in any team-based game, the more characters there are, the more difficult it is to balance the game

"NERF ROADHOG NERF ROADHOG" ..... Oh ok now hes completely useless and will be getting a rework. Basically the ow community summed up

It's one big cycle starting with burst healing. Burst heal is too high, so HP pools have to be increased. HP pools go up, Burst damage has to go up. Burst out strips DPS , meaning DPS has to be nudged up. DPS goes too high, HoT becomes irrelevant and must be upped. HoT out paces Burst heal, Burst heal has to go up...And then when it gets too high, the HP pools have to go up so that it's not healing 70~100 % every burst......

I believe it's better for the game to make things harder to kill rather than make everything easier to kill, but not in the way it's happening rn. The way everything is harder to kill is specifically from the healing of the supports. Nothing can't die specifically because of the amount of healing and survivability even is too much. What I propose is keep this idea, but don't make the healing being the reason, make it be the tank being bulky enough and damage not being so high in general, and not making every character's damage so high which makes their damage per second be increased much higher than expected. Only certain characters should have those high damage numbers but keep them in check for sure. Other than that, it should be feeling good and fun to play and not feel just overall negative and also unrewarding for killing things and also feel good because you would be able to see your skill much better and be able to see and know what to improve and get more value as you now made yourself better at killing things and what not. Also, tanks are the one role that defo need more love by just simply making them tankier, making them have better dps in one way or another, even just a little bit of both. Dps and supports can carry even in moments when it's just the 2 dps or just the 2 supports, but tanks can't do that at all whatsoever. Even characters that should defo be able to do it will still struggle so much that they can't carry still when they're made to carry, ya know.

let me remind you how you reacted to the brig buff/rework

Honesty im not a huge fan of this take. There has been some increases on damage for sure but what damage numbers are what we talking about? Sombra, Bastion, Mei(?), Sojourn, Torb? These are recent but when were looking at hitscans and tracer, were at an all time low for their damage. Ashe started at 85 and is now 75. Cass is at his lowest range and still been stuck at 70. Fan started at 70 per shot in OW1 and now is 50, up from its previous 45 whenever that was in OW1. Soldier was at 20, down to 18 and back up to 19 which is still below where he started in OW. Sojourn got damage nerfs still being right under that 1 tap range. Rein held his 85 from OW1 but with the sustain from supports, its hard to ask for him to be nerfed. Brig is literally 10 dps off being able to 1v1 Rein again. Roadhog can barely 1 tap and its mental now in comparison to before off of hook. Doom cant 1 tap reliably like on OW1 off punch anymore which is fine but objectively that is LESS damage. Genji got damage nerfs after finally getting a buff in OW2. Then they also buffed supports after this. Hanzo is down to 120 and Widow also 120 with a lil less range than before. I believe Mei always 2 tapped to the head but they've lowered her spray DPS to make a more interactive soft CC mini game for burst. I need to understand this idea that damage has gotten too high in any role other than support.

Being a doom main was a down slope into insanity.

Fr I like that the health pools are smaller than most other games but the damage and heal numbers are def becoming too high. I don't think balancing the game is easy ofc it's not. however, I think ow has failed to make proper distinctions between the roles. Why do supports have as much HP as DPS when they also get self sustain? Why do tanks do as much dmg as DPS? I bet if this was tweaked a bit it would automatically make the game a little more balanced.

Sorta related but the Ana nerfs weren't tht good. Ana's biggest enemies are flankers, and that includes Tracer. Now, she can't two shot a Tracer, which isn't ideal considering how Ana's weapon fires.

This is a direct result of the blurring of classes. OW used to be tank has a shield (+ off tank), DPS has a gun and support has heals. This isn't very fun to watch in OWL though, so they gradually made tank fat DPS and support DPS with heals. Kiriko and Illari (in particular) have such strong damage kits though that healing feels like an occasional secondary ability and not their actual role. Can say the same for some tanks too.

It might be time to just give everyone 25 health.

going into overwatch 2 and in, it felt like all numbers started getting to high. so iv have always agreed with flats on this one

I think part of the issue was when they removed one of the tank slots but kept most of the old numbers. Now they have to play catch up on the missing slot and they have yet to reach a good balance point because they keep pushing the numbers up slowly. At some point they need to bring them back down to level the playing field again.

I agree. Theree is only one recoirse left. Make the game 4v4. Just remove the tank role entierly.

SureFour is an absolute king for making this point forever ago: the roles should be rebalanced around what the roles are expected to do. Tank should tank, Damage should damage, Support should offer extra supportive effects. It would take a lot of rebalancing but so would tweaking the numbers and it just seems necessary. Supports two-shotting people and tanks team-wiping people might feel good when you're doing it, and it might make for a good highlight reel, and it might even take skill much of the time, but the truth is that it's not sustainable. It'll take time and experimentation but it would be worth it if the devs could find a formula that makes each role feel like it has an actual role that it can execute, should prioritize and will benefit from privileging in its gameplay. If they aren't willing to try something bold like that, then I couldn't tell you how to handle it. Turning numbers down by itself is probably something they've avoided due to wanting a certain pacing in teamfights, but if those higher numbers are still there and limited to a certain context with interplay that doesn't just depend on doing higher damage or faster damage back, then it's still possible to have fights that aren't grindy. Just my two cents.

Here’s a potential solution to that problem. You add back the second tank. Almost all of these characters were designed when 1/3 of the players in the game were there to absorb damage and take space. Now that’s that is down to 1/5, everyone’s numbers are going crazy, except for those poor tanks.

Nah it's just straight up the supports. Healing and dmg numbers on that role have gotten insane while tank and DPS haven't gotten big buffs in 2

I'd rather walk a mile in glass barefoot then play ow2 again and I mean that.

It's because everybody wants their hero to be a DPS hero. The only way to actually balance the game would make it a lot less fun to play. 1. Lower some of the DPS health pools. Long range and highly mobile heros need to have low health pools, "glass cannons." 2. Lower all damage for all tanks. Their job isn't to get kills it's to make space. If someone receives no healing then yeah you should get the kill, but if they are getting heals they should be able to tank your damage. 3.Give support good burst healing on a CD, and decent but low overall healing. Support should l be able to out heal a DPS heros damage on one teammate, but not be able to heal 3 people all taking decent damage.

6 months later, they upped the health pool... and now damage/healing creep is quickly swallowing it again

Me and my friend out healed a nano winston ult whilest being juggled in a corner. I never felt so bad for not dying before.

It's not because people don't like nerfs, it's because overwatch team doesn't play their own game or play it against bots. They should have nerfed most of the heroes 4 seasons ago.

Bringing back 6v6 would solve a ton of issues. A majority of the issues in this game stem from it being 5v5.

Bro the amount of times Flats predicts shit and ppl get mad is insane.

The best Overall nerf done was with leauge durability patch where EVERYONE got a 10% dammage nerf early and ticked back power creep, but bc there was changes on so many people no one could say who will be good or bad

Best solution would be to buff every hero's hp and slightly reduce the effectiveness of healing across the board. Community won't complain about nerfs as much if it's labeled as a buff

I'VE BEEN THINKING THIS SINCE THE REMOVAL OF THE SECOND TANK, LESS MITIGATION = TOO MUCH DAMAGE TAKEN We gotta play cover like it's valorant now lmfao

Valorant is successfully doing the opposite. Slowly nerfing everyone and making ults cost more. Everyone is becoming less broken than their former selves.

I noticed this yesterday when i walked into a team fight as Road hog and lost 600 health in less than a second

The way to fix this? Nerf tanks and add a 2nd tank.

If everybody's damage got nerfed including doomfist He'll be trashed so much worse than ever before I just hope they don't do anything to doomfist if they do intend to tune the numbers down a little

Back in beta I was mad when they changed Widow's jump-quickscoping to be slow boring, it was some of the most fun such a shame

That sounds like a good reason to buff kiriko and merf genji

Imagine playing a role that "occasionally" heals and 90% of the time it's an off dps role. And then cry that they feel like a healing bot, and not playing the game. It's not like the world forced you to play support and only that. The hypocrisy levels are too damn high

I think that everyone being powerful is better than everyone being weak

I always thought that this game is way too frenetic, way too much damage and healing, low health pools, small hitboxes, lot of mobility and the strafing is dumb

this happens in to many games now a days. they just keep adding things. and then having to buff things. but never really nerf anything so everything just slowly gets stronger and stronger. to keep up with the buffed things. even non PVP games like warframe just constantly end up doing this. Siege a tactical shooter even has this now. DBD a asym horror has it in the perk system

This isn’t power creep, it’s always felt this way. You’re just starting to notice more of these problems as the game wears on you

BUFF HOG ❤

Only character needing a buff is genji, like actually, if most of the time your accuracy is gonna be 30% increase one of two things, either the rate at which the stars travel, or their dmg

Forgot which game did it but i remember that one game ONLY buffed characters more and more and it became unrecognizable from it og version

I think they should add a support whose role is more similar to old symmetra. Healing is a great mechanic but support as a role is basically just healbots with benefits. I don't know much about game design or anything like that, but I think a focus on support characters that have more utility to move allies around, give shields and ways of survivability beyond pure healing and hindrances and the like to the enemy team would provide much more balance to make supports useful but not overpowered, and dealable by tanks whilst still having an affect on their team.

The issue is the different health types. They need to work more with those for the Heroes rather than just giving them hp. Look at Orisa, she's got three different types of health and if you put a Zyra shield there it goes. You can also build a character that doesn't need that type like Roadhog, but then you have people like Lucio and any champ with 200 or less HP who insta tly die if caught out with no room for escape. They just need to focus on making those things work. Lastly, wtf is the range on Zyra's attack? It's ridiculous! Will be so far away and she's hitting me, and not with the gernade launcher with her beam, it's ridiculous.

I played 2 games of OW2 since the beginning for season 3, got completely curbstomped both times and just uninstalled because I didn't remember how to play most of the characters or know the counterpicks. Only character I remembered how to play is Sigma. My experience was so bad I reinstalled Paladins.

Mauga throw balance out the window and says hold my beer

Hammond has been nerfed due to the lack of buffs from everyone else getting buffed. Outside of hog, there is a good arguement he is the worst tank in the game. And this is from a guy with 300 hours on Ball.

I feel like there is secret unknown Reaper nerfs💀

I wish people would ACTUALLY listen to what Flats has to say, instead of kinda siding it off untill what he says comes to fruition, and acting like they agreed with him the whole time. It seems like every time he's had to say "I told you so" he gets more tired and fed up.

Slightly up all the health pools, slightly tone down damage across the board. And change widow and hanzo so they get power elsewhere in their kit but can no longer one shot anyone but tracer.

The only way ill go back is if they give my man doomfist his old move kit back i miss the wombo combo

Nerf healing add more health packs to map to fight over.

I’m actually really hopeful and exited to maybe one day see a full reset and all of the numbers go down

I think they can't decide if they want fights to last longer or shorter

This is the absolutely wrong philosophy. Primary concern should not be not making clears angry. It should be making a good game. This over prioritization of player feedback over quality of the game is what led to the constant power creep. This is one of the primary problems with overwatch two at the moment aside from 5 to 5, rather than 6v6. Having all this over, cracked power being pumped into a single tank, exacerbates the issue.

overwatch inflation (REAL)

"Has there been too much healing" Yes, in custom games

Kiri, illari, and mauga are so broken in my opinion. Kiri able to 1v1 dps with ease n heal herself during so and can leave anytime. Illari hits like a rein swing and mauga doesn’t die even if he has 1 healer but this could be because of the opposing team not using their abilities to their strength

Paladins have a lot figured out tbh. Cauterise (base kit anti heal that increase as the match goes on) gives matches progression and deals with the issue of being out healed and teams being too bulky and of you do need extra healing or survivability there’s the item shop, talents and card load outs to aid you when playing

The worst part of this is that this isnt just an OW problem, its a thing with alot of games now where the devs dont nerfs something unless its actively ruining the game and just keep buffing characters, which sometimes is good, but other tumes in gets fucking stupid

I don't think the dev team should be making changes based on the community's reaction. That is exactly how power creep happened in Overwatch 1.

There cant be too much healing, its just a good player vs a bad player and people cant admit they are just bad. Two healers pocketing a tank will not be able to keep them alive unless the tank knows when to use their skills and ultimate

He says that but some characters havent had their numbers changed at all since ow1.

The infamous flats quote, “Remember when I said this thing one time half a year ago? Well I told you so” 😂

Power creep occurred in Heroes of the Storm too. Some of the original characters are too weak, while newer characters are strong. It’s as if some of the older characters were just forgotten about.

Next weekend event thing needs to be like 1/2 damage and healing

a game like overwatch can NEVER be balanced. ever.

I think it revolves around 2 things, the ammount of "free" healing, i mean free by healing that can be done safely and without much aim needed. The second would be how armor and shield health, not shield like rein/winston/sig but i mean shield health gained from other abilities. Personally i also think hanzo/widow one shots, sombra perma invis, and the overall DPS output of journ/ashe/echo are also all problems that will be forever impossible to solve without making the hero dead. They would have to make a huge patch all at once and people would be FURIOUS over it.

Been looking for validation that tank is just not fun. I'm turning into a support main somehow. Probably because I can stay alive and actually do something

I also think with the most recent support additions, including bap. Most of the utility for supports was healing, or mercy res. Now the one's like kiriko have cleanse + invulnerability, bap has immortality - aka a second health bar, lifegrip etc. That on top of the healing makes it so frustrating, because you have to break through the healing, and then also bait out the support cooldowns. And honestly, i doubt kiriko's suzu would exist had ana never existed, or gotten nerfed, as she should. Ana has way too large of a bias for her that it makes balance stupid. Yeah, illari damage is a bit absurd, but it's only her m1 that does it, but ana ? She does the same damage roughly, and she can nade. And don't act like hitting her m1s is hard. I just despise the baby treatment ana gets.

Glass half full- Health increase across the board Glass half empty- Damage nerf across the board

I don’t really understand the thought process they have with buffs and nerfs, cuz they nerf characters like rein and ball who are fun to play and fun to watch at pro level but they keep Winston to a level where he has been meta for the whole owl season

Bro i was playing tank, i didnt notice it much up until like a couple days ago but DAMN I PEAK FOR 0.2 SECONDS AND MY HP JUST DISAPPEARS….

I stop playing as a tank because I always end up with healers trying to do damage instead of healing

Do a mass nerf patch. Drop dmg output and healing by everyone like 20%. That way no one was nerded. Its all the same. You just live longer

As long as the characters can do their jobs in their respective roles I tend to not care. Like with Life Weaver I was thinking the buffs or a rework would revolve around his crowd control being better to supplement his lacking dmg/healing. Like his flower could detect and trap enemies in a gas chamber and provide cover for allies.

Nerf Sombra into the shadow realm

As someone who switched from playing more traditional FPS games I have absolutely no problem with the ttk in overwatch.

"Most people don't like when their character gets nerfed." True. But as a Soraka/Nami, Mercy/Brigitte main (Raka and Nami are from League of Legends for those unaware) I have lived through mostly nerfs and reworks. Those players will be fine. Balance, however, will get way out of hand if we don't start foam darting some stats.

It’s almost like the heroes weren’t made for a 5v5 game crazy.

I love playing Rein but swear 90% if my matches are against Orisa or Zarya it just gets old always fighting the two same tanks.

Might be time to bring two tanks back 😱😱