See past Sunday Musings: SundayMusings.org Under what circumstances is it still okay to use the term "Mormon"? The recent changes have also produced some interesting legal updates that has gone unnoticed… until now.
I'm an active non-member, and the reluctance of the church to fight against the covid craziness was a little disappointing. I still regularly use the term "Mormon", and I don't think I've actually run into anyone in the 2 wards I've been in who feels at all offended by the terminology. "Mormon" actually has really good branding.
It’s not the Church’s job to fight against the Covid craziness. It’s ours. The Church’s job is to bind people to Christ through ordinances. It can’t do that if it gets political.
@@lw1959there was literally nothing more political than their participation in the covid craziness. They locked stepped themselves with governments and literally advised us to follow wise govt leaders. To stay out of politics would have been to provide spiritual guidance only and keep holding church. But they just kept doubling down.
@@lw1959 That is weak reasoning. It’s not that the church didn’t fight the Covid craziness. It’s that the church was fighting on the wrong side of the craziness. The church was not simply sitting as a neutral party.
I'm not offended by someone saying Mormon. I'm a Christian. I'm also a Latter-Day Saint. They're all synonymous. Let's not get caught up in the technicalities that don't have real impact on identity politics or sharing the gospel. If they still don't know what church I belong to, sure I'll say the whole name of the church.
My wife and I gave our children beautiful, strong, family-honoring full names. Apart from blessings and ordinances, and the odd scenario here or there, we call our children by a litany of nicknames that each one has grown into. The nicknames even change as they grow older. Grandpas and uncles call them X…. Grandmas and aunts call them Y….. friends call them Z. We as a collective, restored church have a true and proper name given to us by our true and proper leader. Our earthly church and its earthly, though divinely inspired, leaders are just doing their best to lead us in a way the Lord might have us lead. I am comfortable existing in a gray area regarding church leaders contending with one another regarding how the institution of the church markets itself. I am also comfortable with, and frequently use, the term “Mormon” in various contexts when communicating with non-members because there are more important points and connections I hope to communicate with them than insisting on policing language. I find that human connection and relationship building allows me to be as good a disciple of Christ as I can be. More so than insisting on people, both in-group and out-group, refer to me in a certain way. All this said, I try to be humble and open to correction when necessary.
I appreciate that you are flexible in certain situations. Imagine if Ammon had refused to roll with the term "Great Spirit" while teaching King Lamoni. It's hard for me to see that as a great win for Satan, but I'm just trying to follow the prophet on this one.
I agree with you. the Savior reminds us it’s his Church through our covenants and obedience to the ordinances of the gospel If we misstep in saying the correct name it’s not a blight on our souls he loves us and knows our hearts I loved all you’ve said it brings it full circle ⭕️ it never negates what the Prophet has said about the name .
It doesn’t bother me at all that I’m not a legal member of the corporation. My membership has never been dependent on whether the world recognizes it. The legal structure of The Church is only there to facilitate interaction with other legal entities in the world. When The King returns, He will bring a new legal structure along with Him, and I am a member of that legal structure, which is the only one that will not ultimately fail.
I would like to know your opinion on the phrasing used by the church for "legally and lawfully wed" to describe marriage socially and inside the church.
I have wondered but never really looked into who decided to give the church a dead body (corpse) created by the corporatized gov't. So much interesting stuff we just aren't taught about unless we search for it.
@@dudeofdixiethe church uses that language because the society uses it. Hardly anyone knows what a legal marriage is. At least what God considers to be legal. They go with what that"other" god says is legal or illegal, which makes them the children of the devil instead of children of the God of Abraham. Someone please prove me wrong.
When I joined the Church, in 1968, I loved the full correct name of the Church and loved to say it. It reminded me that this IS the restored Church of Jesus Christ!
I agree with you on this one. Personally, calling members “Saints” or “Mormons” doesn’t seem like an issue if we always refer to the church using its full name. Go over to Ward Radio’s comment section and you’ll find 2-3 Saints that post cringeworthy rebukes and condemnations of the hosts on every video just because they occasionally use the word Mormon in video titles or keywords for the algo. I read one nasty rebuke from someone called “LadyG” that said the hosts were going to be damned to hell if they didn’t stop using the word and she posts similar rebukes on content from all of the popular LDS channels on RU-vid. Abandoning the word Mormon after using it forever just makes it so investigators almost exclusively find anti-Mormon content in their top search results online and RU-vid. Is that being a wise and faithful servant to cede the word Mormon to the apostates online? I’ll add my personal experience. I was a lukewarm member in the church for several years until I came across a radio show that also plays RU-vid called, Midnight Mormons (now called Ward Radio because they wanted to follow the prophets counsel). I found it because I searched for Mormon shows. If they had been called Ward radio back then, I may never had found them. Their content brought me back to full activity. Just a thought to consider.
@@CryptoCPA COVID doesn’t count. The letter was a suggestion. But one can take a revelation from the prophet and discard it as not being one because they disagree. Happens in the Church all the time. Getting the vaccine wasn’t a sin. I got mine before the letter. COVID was politicized by the Church because of anti Trump hate. Same with his getting the vaccine out. There is a distinction between revelation, opinion and counsel. That I agree with. But the fact is, both the Church and non members in the US politicized the vaccine and caused contention over it.
Is this a Utah problem? Having lived in several wards in several stakes east of the Rockies since Nelson’s talk, the “social” problems being described in this musing are non-existent. No one gets judgy if we refer to ourselves as Mormon, no one turns into a Karen if someone calls them a Mormon. We’re just people doing our best to follow Christ, and to follow the spirit of what the prophets encourage us to do. If this is what Utah church culture is like, I’ve never been more grateful to live outside of it.
There's a bit if you live close enough to one of the FLDS or similarly polygamous cities or enclaves. There can also be a problem if local Protestant pastors like pushing things like "The Godmakers" around.
There was a guy in our ward in Texas who was getting like this- and most of us just asked that he live and let live. Just like Connor pointed out here, we pointed out that the saints throughout the primitive church were called by their geographical location- Corinth, Ephesus, Rome. The members of the church in the Nephite dispensation were called Nephites. Obviously they were all saints and members of the Church of Jesus Christ. I AGREE that the name of the church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" and it should be used whenever we refer to the church itself. I also know that neither Hinckley nor Monson had issues with 'Mormon' as a moniker when referring to members. I still use LDS and Mormon in my vocabulary.
Out west people love to display their righteousness by correcting you if you say Mormon, “Um, Aktchually… it’s the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”😂 Also tends to be the people who love bragging about getting the “jovid cab” and might still be seen wearing a mask
Much like the push to gave women qear pants ro church, a lot of this ONLY makes sense in Utah, and especially Provo and SLC. President Nelson also cautioned us about being myopic. We tend to get very myopic this close to the church office buildings. Out side this weird little circle so much of our drama doesn't matter.
Yeah, if they could just post some good stuff instead of all the obviously stupid wrong ideas they present as fact. They have fun though, so there is that. Their knowledge just sucks though...
The “Mormon is a major victory for Satan” claim Nelson made was a jarring declaration that further solidified that prophets really can lead the people astray. You did a great job breaking this down. I, too, have been on the bandwagon of saying that Nelson called us to be anti-Mormons. People, please use your discernment and don’t be afraid to call a spade a spade.
Nelson never made the claim that "Mormon is a major victory for Satan". And even if he's wrong, it doesn't constitute "lead[ing] the people astray" in an "Official Declaration 1" sense, as I'm sure Connor would agree
right! a mormon is a mormon. and the mormon church IS the mormon church, as well as the CofJCofLDS, as well as the Restored Church of Jesus CHrist, as well as the Church of CHrist, as well as the LDS church , as well as etc., etc., as you can read from church history.
@@MrBillmechanic I would argue that there isn't "the" Mormon church, only "a" Mormon Church. The LDS, RLDS, FLDS, etc, all fall under the umbrella of Mormonism
Calling someone mormon is like calling a woman the b or c word it's not as bad as calling someone the N word but all the words are not terms of endearment. If your white and driving down the road listening to rap you might not want to have the windows down and singing along to the N word. Now we always wonder why people don't want to be called the n word bit use it themselves? Apply that to the n word . Then think how they used mormon on Southpark it wasn't a term of endearment
Nelson’s wife, 2nd and quite a bit younger just out’d his wants, thoughts and desires! And these were things he wanted before he was the prophet, which begs the idea, is it his interests or is it by divine inspiration for the direction of the church?🧐 very curious
@@rickfowlks7296 That is not an unprecedented occurance. Lorenzo Snow received the impression that "As man is, God once was...." before he became President but did not enunciate it at that time because he did not then have the authority to speak for the Church.
the word "Mormon" is used as a pejorative all the time. "Oh, you're a Mormon, hu? Where do you keep all your wives?" Dude, if you've never heard Mormon used as a pejorative you must be in a coma from birth or something
A lot of Evangelical Protestants use Mormon as a pejorative, along with the anti-Mormon literature they push. In addition, if you're anywhere near the FLDS groups, there tends to be some bad feelings what with all the ones who escape them feel. One of my gaming friends complained about getting a reputation as a lawyer known for getting people out of Mormon groups. I clarified with him he meant the bad Mormons like the FLDS, and he agreed.
It was originally a slur that the early members turned to their use (here in the Bible Belt, it's still used by some as a slur). "Yeah, I'm Mormon and I'm proud of it." As you tell children to just ignore bad behavior and they will tire of pestering you.
A word that comes up in the scriptures, mostly in the Doctrine and Covenants, is "Expedient" (fit, or suitable for a purpose, proper under the circumstances). Perhaps, it was expedient to use Mormon in the past as well as expedient to use the proper name of the Church now.
You called it "the Church" and removed the name of Jesus Christ. Interesting. Perhaps it was expedient for you to have a practical way of using a term that condenses the information from a longer term that contains more information. In the world of internet and social media, it is still expedient to have a compressed way to express who the church is without the unnecessary use of the entire name of the Church each time you refer to it.
You can’t have it both ways…Mormon church was fine under past prophets and not under newest prophet. If no prophet can lead the church astray than they’re either all right or their all wrong. I find it tragic that so many brought people unto Christ using into the Mormon church and then suddenly we’re calling that a victory for satan. It makes no sense. I think it’s awful to see the latest prophet disrespecting the very predecessors that he claimed to sustain, as wrong. That’s a lot of people he is throwing under the bus. What are we members supposed to do with that. How do we trust any past or present prophet when they don’t trust each other?
Thank you for explaining a very perplexing and neck breaking course correction. A musing regarding the adoption of born-again ministering themes and wording would be interesting.
I have loved the focused effort on using Jesus’ name more. It has done me good to say His name and His words more often. Mormon doesn’t do that. Given I tactfully use the word when needed as it has its roots in our culture and is what many people still know us by.
That's offensive! His name is not "Jesus" and saying that is offensive! It's Yeshua and if you're not saying Yeshua but, instead, are saying the bastardized "Jesus" you have gone off course and are part of the evil! It's "The Church of Yeshua Son of Joseph the One Messiah or Christ of the Earth and Universe of Latter-Day Saints"!!! GET IT RIGHT!!!
I am American. Well, technically I am an American citizen. Well, technically technically I am a citizen of the United States of America. Back to "I am American". But, actually I am North American ... but, not Canadian ... so, I am North American, with a qualifier. Can South Americans identify as American? Or is that Cultural Appropriation? Wokesters hate appropriation. Nah, South Americans cannot call themselves 'American'. Some Evangelicals won't allow me to call myself Christian. Because, appearantly 17 centuries ago a bunch of Athanasian-ite Constantinian priests dictated the definition of Christian as a person who believes in their (pre-electricity, pre-American-continent, pre-germ-theory, pre-internal-combustion-engine) version of the Eternal God, who is everywhere but nowhere ... simultaneously. Meantime, Einstein had a problem with Quantum Entanglement aka Spooky Action at a Distance, because he could not wrap his brain around the concept. Just called me LDS. Ya, I like the Saint moniker. So, if 'Mormon' is out as a name identifier, and if 'Christian' has been co-opted by the Evangelicals, you can call me a "1st century classical Christian, with old world Jewish Lehi roots, and a progressive Prophet Mormon ideology" ... Or, LDS will suffice.
The phase of the the church ending with the Meet the Mormons campaign was the last welcoming and inclusive era. As cheesy as the campaign was and how marketing-ish it felt, we were a team - inclusive, celebrating growth and activity of all kinds of people. It felt good to be a member. We’ve settled into a phase, especially post covid where we’re adversarial and stodgy. We have to be called by a certain name, have a certain steeple height on our temples and insist that we’re the most Christian of the Christians because our church name says so and because we donate the most money (giving machines). We lost internal camaraderie in the name of an outward facing impression. Why do we care so much what other people think? We’d be stronger if we were spending much more time building Zion internally. I agree that we have many more important fish to fry. Nelson fulfilled his grudge but at what cost? The irony now is, of course that social media content using the keyword Mormon is some of the most profitable content out there. Plenty of anti-Mormons making a lot of money off a word that used to be held dear by so many of us.
At what cost is something I'd like to see, as in the amount of money that's been used. I'm sure President Nelson has spared no church expense on his campaign. It's easy to spend other people's money.
“We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true Mormons.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 316)
There were only ever 2 names of the church during Joseph's lifetime. 1. The Church of Christ - this was removed by the Lord in 1832 due to condemnation. 2. The Church of Latter Day Saints - see name on Kirkland house of the Lord and D&C on those days. This was the only name used during Joseph's lifetime. D&C 115 was printed in 1870.s by Brigham after Joseph's death. I do not believe it ever came to Joseph or he would have used the name we use today. Anything printed after Joseph's death is likely altered or a fabrication claiming it was from Joseph. Since we are still under condemnation as per Pres. Benson we should still be the Church of Latter Day Saints. Mormon is just fine and better in my opinion than what we are told to call the church, which we have no right to since 1832 when the Savior removed his name from the church. Joseph wanted to get it back and was told if they got the Nauvoo House of the Lord built he would restore his approval and grant his fulness.
I had the privilege of spending a couple days with Elder Anderson. 1. I have a testimony that the name correction is required to be called by him when he returns. 2. He uses, and we can use the name "Christian".
Who is “he uses and we can use the name Christian.” When can we use this? For whom? Christians? Us members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?? I am totally confused by your statement!
I joined the church in 1963 at age 16. I used the full name of church but did not correct non LDS who called us Mormons. But President Kimball and President Hinckley told us to call the church by the full name so I did. What others say is what they say but as members we should use the full name of the Lord's Church especially with those not members. That is my feeling about it. By using the full name the world knows we believe in Christ and are Christians.
The way you get people to do something (repeatedly and enmasse) is to tell them not to do it. To think that we can get people to call us by our long name is unrealistic. I am a follower of Christ.
Thanks for all you do, this is a discussion well worth having. At the same time, what if we look back and find that this change had some cumulative effects like separating faithful and anti channels to some degree in the algorithms so that the old tired channels can start to lose out after their head start, and as they are grasping at straws a wave of new faithful content overtakes, and in conjunction with other efforts reaches a tipping point, exponential growth, the last great gathering, then He returns. Definitely agree we shouldn't call others out/virtue signal.
Defending the Savior is always a good thing, and I see Russell Nelson defending his Savior. The “President Nelson is leading the Church astray” crowd needs to chill.
poisonous water in those PET bottles- don’t drink that water, but - get this- I crush Coca Cola cans and have been doing so long before P Nelson ever game up with the explicit bottle crushing instructions.
Seems like a wasted opportunity to be a light of truth by putting out this squabbling and silly argument that so many people are fine with this so why can't President Nelson be. Well seems like God's ways are not our ways. Jesus Christ did not come here to go along with the majority. So no surprise President Nelson is being led by Jesus Christ. He is truly a light and points people to the Savior.
I think we can all see both sides this pretty well. It might be easier to understand if you’re living outside of Utah. Back in 2006 when I was in high school in Northern CA, I had a teacher ask me in class if Mormons believed in Jesus Christ. And the way I answered still bothers me today. I said “Are you serious?” And the I walked up to the front of the room and wrote the full name of “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” on the white board and I said “That’s the name of the church, Mormons is just what people call us.” And I could tell I embarrassed him and totally shut the convo down. I could have said just about the same thing but have been less “offended” myself and less offensive. He was just curious. At the same time if I’m being perfectly honest I don’t want to be counted among the countless denominations of Christianity as “Christians”. They’ve sort of soured that idea in my mind. I’d rather just be a follower of Christ. To me a more appropriate way to approach nicknames which still seems in line with what President Nelson has said is to simply use the term Mormon when it is brought up as an opportunity to share the actual name of the church and our belief in Jesus Christ. We don’t need to use the name as a bludgeon. And to be perfectly honest it seems like we should be focusing more on retention through community, and teaching than semantics. Unpopular opinion, bring back 3-hour church, an alternative to scouting, a better young women’s program, relief society that does more together. We can’t just keep talking about building The Kingdom we actually have to do it. The bottom up approach can’t work without the proper organizational tools in place. In the world of technology this shouldn’t be a problem at all.
So many traditional Christians here in the Bible belt, literally think that Mormon is a new religion like Islam and is separate from Christianity. Missionary work was really frustrating when we were calling ourselves Mormons! I am totally on board with President Nelson. I had been thinking what he had been thinking for years.
thank you conner! myself and a couple friends look forward to these every sunday and love this video thank you! so grateful for a member willing to talk about stuff that doesnt like up and doesnt just suck up to the leaders in power
I’m on President Nelson’s side here. I think he understands the importance of psychological and spiritual conditioning. Maybe some members can be too passionate about President Nelson’s counsel, but I don’t know.
The anti-Mormon sentiment primarily comes from evangelical Christian leaders zeros in on our calling ourselves Mormons! They are thinking, checkmate, you’re not Christian! It’s all about missionary work and the target audience and the language that they speak. no sincere member of the church cares about being offended by what they are called. It’s not about that at all. It’s about missionary work.
A well thought out position, as I have come to expect from your musings. In general, I don't see course corrections as problematic, or conflicting with past prophets. If prophets are meant to be watchmen, it makes sense that policies will change as the facts on the ground change. Elder Holland in 2012 described our day as a time of "mighty accelerated change" in a talk titled Israel, Israel God is calling. This seems to me that it would require some significant and sometimes jarring changes. Perhaps God impressed upon president Nelson this idea long ago and allowed him to grow in it for decades, so when the time came for him to make this correction, he was able to give a well reasoned, grounded, and firm Declaration of this path. It speaks well of the church leadership that though he obviously disagreed, there was no power struggle or public contention on the matter, as there would have been in nearly every other organization on the earth, throughout all of history. I do think that members over react to the use of the name, but I do find it rather telling that nearly every anti-Mormon publication or podcast uses some form of the word Mormon, and would have no reason to change it, because they would hate to actually "follow the prophet" in this thing. That isn't to say that every publication that uses Mormon is anti, but it seems a reliable indicator. When members react to the name in unkind and judging ways, they fail to understand D&C 121. Power and influence are only maintained by persuasion, longsuffering, etc. that list does not include yelling at, condemning, or other things like that.
The only question I see here is; "Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, seer, and revelator and the only person on earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?" All I know is that when I raise my arm to the square I am sustaining a Prophet of God. I don't always understand why we are told to do certain things, but I do understand that our Prophets, seers and revelators are the watchmen on the walls and they can see what's coming far better than we can.
One must be careful, because the church throughout history has become corrupted. And a cause of that corruption are people blindly following the leaders who drifted away from the gospel til it was lost. The same thing can happen again if we aren't familiar with scripture and willing to point out and discuss when we see discrepancies between what today's leaders are saying, and the long history we have in the scriptures.
@johnsonsadventurers Read Joshua 9. Sometimes, a prophet does things without consulting with the Lord. This doesn't make them fallen prophets it shows that they are human and can make mistakes. In Joshua 9, he makes a treaty with some canaanites pretending to come from a far away land. (Josh 9:14-16) And the men took of their victuals, and asked not counsel at the mouth of the Lord. 15 And Joshua made peace with them, and made a league with them, to let them live: and the princes of the congregation sware unto them. 16 ¶ And it came to pass at the end of three days after they had made a league with them, that they heard that they were their neighbours, and that they dwelt among them.
You know what I see as strange? Why only one? If God has the same message he's trying to get out he can use multiple people. It would be a sign of 2 or 3 witnesses, not 2 or 3 read it from the teleprompters. I don't believe he is a prophet anymore. The one who deceives the most will be the hardest to detect. I have gone through the last 4 years since Covid jabs and prayed and struggled to finally come out on the other end with the answer. The thing I'm finding is, within the church doesn't it sound blasphemous to say it? Isn't that weird though? It should be blasphemous to say God isn't our God, but we have looked more to the prophet as a God then God himself! Our religion has fallen from the teachings of the Book of Mormon. I think Helaman and Captain Moroni would be in agony for us for not standing up for our freedom and doing the right thing to fight for our liberties, our faith, our freedom and our families.
You are missing the point! It’s about targeting evangelical Christians, who are most likely to join the church if they know that we are Christian. Many of them are taught that our answering to the name of Mormon is a sign that we are not Christian. I saw this in numerous conversations with coworkers about the church. They really do see it as a sign that we are not Christians when we answer to any other name. It sent a strong message to our target audience for missionary work that we do not accept any other name, except Jesus Christ. Evangelicals are heavy duty into taking on and confessing the name of Christ and being Christian and appearing Christian and sounding Christian.
Another informative and thoughtful musing. Thank you. You are a gift. I don’t think we can undo the Mormon nickname. That’s what we will be referenced as. As far as corporate status, I also considered this as a possibility.
As I listened to your podcast, Isaiah 4:1 came to mind. "And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel; only let us be called by the name, to take away our reproach. This scripture is not about polygamy it is about the churches in the latter days wanting to incorporate the name of Christ in order to give them more legitimacy in the eyes of the people. The people do not want to practice his doctrines, they will have their own (i.e. bread and apparel). They just want his name associated with them. As you know, the name of the Church in the beginning was the church of Christ. Later that name was removed and changed to the church of the Latter Day Saints and still later to what we have today.
Give me a break. People can't understand words even as simple as words can be. Terrible job word wrestling there. That right there is the product of a curse, because you have rejected truth. You now know nothing at all.
Thank you! I’m glad I’m not the only Mormon 😂 to feel this way. I also have wondered about the Lord’s instruction on calling His priesthood after Melchizedek. People rush through the name of the church now and His name. Every time I hear a person rush through His name by saying, “I’m a member of the Church of . . .” I cringe. I’m baffled as to why just the phrase “Latter-day Saint”is not more stressed. It sounds so much better than “Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,” which I find very redundant. It says what the members are to be called in the name of the church-Latter-day Saints. This is only four syllables, which is fewer than Jehovah Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, or Evangelical. It makes a lot more practical sense to have nonmembers use Latter Day Saint. Why the reluctance? I’m guessing members feel awkward calling themselves saints because of meaning the Catholic Church has brought on the word instead of the original meaning found in the New Testament. I think the “Anti-Mormon” campaign would have been more successful if Latter Day Saint would have been emphasized instead of saying the entire name of the church even when referring to members. That being said, “Mormon” is fine, and I still use it too. Great insight in 4 Nephi.
I haven't finished the video yet, but I wanted to share something I originally shared with some missionaries: The controversy over the name of the Church got brought up again, so I reviewed this talk. Once again, people are mistakenly assuming that the takeaway from this talk is that using the term "Mormon" is "a major victory for Satan". That's not what the talk is about, nor what it even says. It's the absence of the Lord's name from the Lord's Church that is a major victory for Satan, not the term "Mormon". Here's what I want to emphasize. Because people have mistakenly assumed that "Mormon" is bad, they just shifted to another term, "Latter-day Saints". This has the same issue, the absence of the Lord's name. Satan just bamboozled you! Now, you may be thinking, "But Zach, in the first sentence of the third to last paragraph of the talk, President Nelson refers to us simply as 'the Latter-day Saints'!" Well, hypothetical missionary, that's very astute of you, but notice what President Nelson *also* said a paragraph earlier: "If someone asks, 'Are you a Latter-day Saint?' you might respond, 'Yes, I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and am a member of His restored Church.'" While President Nelson uses that term, he is certain to include the presence of the Lord's name. This is why I'll often tell people the correct name of the Church, but if after the fact they continue to use the term "Mormon", I don't feel the need to continually correct them, especially if it's obvious they're doing it on purpose. At that point, I've already included the presence of the Lord's name, and will likely continue to bring Him up. Of course, this is all my opinion. Y'all are free to disagree. Just thought I'd share some insights EDIT: He actually touched on the topic of my comment in 36:25 . I had originally commented about halfway through the video
Here's another: More insights on the name of the Church. I've noticed many anti having a field day over President Nelson's push to say the correct name of the Church, especially this statement: "To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan." They like prancing around and talking about all the times the word "Mormon" was used positively in the past. However, I've been thinking about this a bit differently. I've never really had a problem with the term "Mormon", especially with using it as an umbrella term. As usual, I think Anti are misunderstanding. It's not the term "Mormon" that's bad, it's the absence of the name of Jesus Christ that is bad, which is actually what President Nelson is saying. If we get too caught up in not saying "Mormon", that leads to caricatures like replacing "The Book of Mormon" with "The Book of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". Just some thoughts I had
And another: Here's a thought I had today. Have you ever heard the Church criticized for not mentioning Christ "enough"? And then those same people turn around and say they don't understand why we don't like to use the term "Mormon" anymore? It's the same principle. We want to use the full name of the Church because doing otherwise removes the name of Christ. We want to say His name more, not less
I just wonder why Mormon was taken away from the Tabernacle Choir because it wasn’t replaced with the name of Jesus Christ. Mormon was just taken away insinuating the word is bad.
Connor, I asked ChatGPT for examples of women serving formal missions in the standard works and there was none. I would like your opinion on this. Thank you.
Your arguments are solid, and I share your channel whenever I find an opening. Thank you for expressing your questions as so many of yours are mine too. I pray regularly that our way will become His way eventually!
Does anyone ever consider D&C 104:49-50? "You shall do your business in your own name, and in your own names." In light of this, how do we justify DBA (Doing Business As a corparation)?
@@maxilla_asini The Church Corporation represents the current prophet and therefore no one specific prophet only. But that said, they don’t own anything. The Church does, through the corporation. So the prophet represents both the Church and the Corporation of the Church. Church employees of the Corporation are separate from regular Church members callings. The employees work full time, get paid for their work and it is considered a calling by the Church as they represent it while employed. They handle tithing, hire lawyers and construction workers and consultants and contractors etc. They make investments to aid both the Church and the rest of the world including humanitarian agencies.
Instead of Nelson vs. Hinckly, what if Heavenly Father’s will was to do both in that specific order and timeframe. The I’m a Mormon campaign might have even been preparatory to the focus on Jesus’s name. Our target audience is evangelicals who focus heavily on taking Jesus’s name upon you and confessing his name. It’s like a chess move that we are learning to block from leading evangelical leaders attempts to keep their flock away from the Church.
Boy your way over doing this topic. I did not get the the jab either but never thought via the prophet was looking at me as less valiant. Why is it so hard for you to just follow a simple thing like this, it's not that hard. He wants us to focus on Christ. I personally have told non members I am a member of.... They normally always come back with surprise when the learn this full name of the church is also Mormon. That is a sign to me we need to use the full name of the church far more often, or better, always. So chill dude, relax and enjoy life.
I just say that I'm a Latter-Day Saint and if they ask further what church it was, I would say The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you would know it as the "Mormon" church. Back then, the term 'Mormon' was a derogatory term in the time of Joseph Smith. I guess as time went on, the leaders were trying to make the term used in a positive light instead to overrule the negative use of the word 'Mormon'. Same as went on for the Book Of Mormon Musical. The world has used our belief of the Book of Mormon to mock our belief, but members have turned it into an opportunity to share the Book of Mormon by inviting others to read it with captions like: "You've seen the musical, now read the book" I don't think it was ever the problem, we are just shifting and making the world more centered on Christ and it starts with us first.
@amybaker1880 The church is THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. I refer to myself as a follower of Jesus, as a saint. People seem to confuse the two. It is in the name of the church. It is His church, we are the Saints.
@amybaker1880 However you see, is how you see. If you think I'm wrong, that is your judgement which doesn't really affect me in anyway because you are NOT the Lord 😊 I admire and respect our Prophet and I know that I do, so if you think that I don't - again, that is your judgement and thankfully, I've learned not to listen to the world and only listen to what the spirit tells me to, divinely appointed sources 😊 My friend, if you are a believer of Christ, please act as He would. Return and talk to me when you have received Him. I will love you from here but will not repeat the actions you have shown me.
@@corinajane6382 You said you say you're a Latter-day Saint. How is that obeying what Nelson said? "What’s in a name or, in this case, a nickname? When it comes to nicknames of the Church, such as the “LDS Church,” the “Mormon Church,” or the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” the most important thing in those names is the absence of the Savior’s name. To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us-even His Atonement." I'm a believer in Christ and the BoM.
Taylor Halverson says the root of the word Mormon may mean "Love endures forever." So, I'm not offended by it. I love the Book of Mormon which testifies of Christ. The legal stuff is bizarre. I'd like to hear more about that. I love both President Hinckley and President Nelson. I'm glad he'll be 100 years old soon and with that comes much wisdom. I pray the Lord continues to bless him for many more years. ❤
Before I joined the church i thought Mormons and the Chuch.of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were 2 different churches. So i think thst needd to be addressed. But also I knew some Mormons but i didn't know any of the other ones. I loved my Mormon friends and always from my dad heard good things about that church. So they need to be connected. The other issue is that some people think Mormons worship the prophet Mormon. That needs to be corrected. I just try to connect both together. But the Babylon Bee is correct! Lol!
Because I exported the wrong video settings and it included a ton of text from a past video that had nothing to do with this one, so I had to fix it, re-export, and re-upload. (RU-vid won't let you simply replace an existing video, you have to delete and upload new.)
@@cboyack Quick question. Have you done a video on President Russell M Nelson autobiography called Heart to Heart? What are your thoughts on page 48 when he joined Skull and Bones?
Here is what I have observed. It is subtle, but members rather than defending Christ are defending themselves as the source of ‘all things Christ’. It has increased pride in the church. A gentle arrogance that separates us, “you will refer to me by my proper title.” It reminds me of doctors saying: “that’s doctor, I think I’ve earned it.” I am not saying all members are like this, I am saying I have observed an increase in the idea that we are the true purveyors of Christ rather than followers of Christ.
I have two issues / questions- First, what are we supposed to call ourselves now? I believe that should have been considered and advised when this change was called for. Second, with the onslaught of anti-Mormon internet content, any channel that kept the name Mormon in their content is a big warning of who is running it. So could that have been a reason?
My first thought was "and I've always been proud to use the word Mormon as I am a convert and was a Mormon boy and now I am a Mormon man" my first thought in listening to your presentation was the word "transition" I think President Nelson is trying to get the point across that Literally "thus shall my church be called in the latter days! I see a winding down I think we are 10 years away from the quickening I think the second coming is right around 2000 years after the crucifixion Which would put it plus or -2034 Who knows if the calendars spot on could be after two or three years I agree with you that I am a Mormon as a member. It sounds good. Feels good. The church that I sustained belong to is "the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints" I am also one who guided my family to not attend church for 18 months As we did not feel welcome because we did not get the shot or wear a mask My son was released from the bishopric because the state president didn't like the fact that he would not fall in line and wear a mask and get the shot On that subject, I believe there's a difference when the profit speaks on behalf of the 501 C3 and when he's speaking about "thus say, if the Lord" I think you have to read between the lines on all these things and listen to the spirit For me with regards to Covid, President Nelson was protecting the corporation from government intrusion and oversight when he encouraged members to get the shot and wear the mask The overwriting principal is Listen to the spirit to guide your personal life
You could take it a step further per the words of Russell M Nelson said "Follow prophets who have been given Divine commission and speak when moved upon by the holy ghost shall be SCRIPTURE. Shall be the will of the lord and shall be the mind of the lord, shall be the word of the lord and shall be the voice of the lord". He was referring to President Hinkley BUT now for President Nelson to make such a hard course correction going against SCRIPTURE in his own words makes me concerned. When President Nelson wife spoke "He had been unleashed", "He's free to do what he came to earth to do" and "He's free to change things He's been concerned about" This language is very PRIDEFUL and I think she has forgotten who he is here to serve! If President Neslon was consistent in wanting to mention the Lord he would make a mandate not to quote or mention his own name during the next conference since he was mentioned twice as much as Jesus Christ. When Jesus says judge not less ye be judged. He's not saying suspend your critical thinking and accept everything being equally valid. Question everything!
@@Robin-ge2qc except he doesnt.....even his thing asking membera to avoid social media for a week was self serving because he dod it to hide from members that his daughter and son in law had multiple lawsuits against them for years of abuse at their house with minor aged kids being part of "touching parties"... he took that week while members werent online and the story barely broke and got quickly buried and the plantiffs all got bought off uding church funds and forced to sign NDAs so the case was dropped before it could get to court... even his story about how ans when he met his 2nd wife is a lie....she lived down the street in the same ward and was a roomate with sheri dew for years who he worked with...yet he claims he disnt even know her name till a few months after his wifes death and quickly gets married he had a ax to grind against hinckley and monson several times...evwn jokes qbout a dual between them were made in general conference after nelson gave wome weird talks going after the use of the word mormon ane then the prophet had to get up ans way he was wrong
My thoughts exactly. My first thought when I heard this talk was whatever happened to the counsel that we should not be using the Lords name too lightly or be too repetitious?
Life long member here, always introduced my beliefs as "Christian LDS". Had a testimony for myself calling myself a "Christian LDS" . Mormon didn't seem to make sense as it confused friends and non members who claimed I wasn't Christian.
I've wondered how this works. Just like how there is a "legitimate" gov't founded by the Constitution, that runs in parallel with the corporate gov't, there must also be the legitimate church of Christ, restored through Joseph Smith running parallel to the corporate church. But where do we add individuals fit in?
I am pleased to be a member of the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: I am also pleased to be called a “Mormon.” Mormon’s contribution to the work of salvation through his unimaginable editing of the records of the descendants of Lehi, all the while leading an unrighteousness people in battle after battle, and at the same time being a prophet to the church of Christ in his day is a marvel to me. I also sustain and support President Nelson!
I think that church members not being considered legal members isn't that big of a deal. Being a member of the church seems more like a spiritual status. Whether or not the government recognizes the church members as members seems irrelevant. The vital functions of the church (your membership in the church, the prophet's authority, etc) aren't determined by the government. Your relationship with Christ's church isn't strengthened or weakened by how that church's legal organization is set up. Because of this, I think that how legal organization of the church is handled is a question of prudence and pragmatism that depends on the circumstances of the time. When the government was going after the church, it was a good idea to legally decentralize everything. Today, with many Christian denominations adopting secular ideologies and going into schism with each other, it's probably a better idea to have a centralized legal setup. If not, we run the risk of having rogue local leaders splitting with the church over doctrinal differences and taking legal ownership of a bunch of LDS meeting houses, with nothing the prophet can do about it.
Non-Mormon here, but I know a lot about Mormonism. Connor, I absolutely love your Sunday musings, they're extremely insightful and no-nonsense. And it's for this very reason that I am starting to hurt for you a little bit on the inside, because I can clearly see the path you're on, I've seen it before. To quote Sans from Undertale... "if you keep going the way you are now... you're gonna have a bad time."
If we are not members of the church what are we members of exactly? This makes me have a lot of questions about tithing and other aspects of what people do to contribute to the progress of the church and it makes me wonder about the return on investment (not just financial investment) especially when people are struggling just to get by and are being taxed worse than serfs with no means provided to opt out of the system with the church providing a parallel system when it has been given the resources to do so by those who leadership refers to as “members”. Its quite baffling really.
This video also leaves out that long before President Nelson was the prophet the Church was sending out style guides to the press requesting that the proper name of the Church be used. This was done during President Hinckley's era and possibly before. Please take this into account. President Hinckley was only saying that if people insisted on saying "Mormon" then we would say, "Okay, that means More Good."
I’m grateful for the emphasis on the full name of the church for a few reasons, one of which I’ll share here: It is often easy to tell which videos, podcasts, or people are antagonistic toward the church by their unwillingness to use the full name of the church (the inverse is also true). I understand it’s clunky at times, but in this day and age where there is so much criticism, some of which is truthful but much of which is misleading or completely false, the name that is used by people to talk about the church is a bit of an indication of where the person lands in their attitudes toward the church and its members.
The Church has been trying to move into the mainstream of christianity for decades, by emphasizing Christ (which is good) but de-emphasizing Joseph Smith and the restoration. I am not sure I understand the rationale.
In 2020 we celebrated the anniversary of the restoration and the church released a proclamation that you can access on the gospel library app, and this year we're studying The Book of Mormon 🤷♀️
@@DesertPrimroseI agree. But not with the OP here. How does the Church convert the entire world without going mainstream? What the Church has de-emphasized is the Great Apostasy. Not the Restoration. The Restoration continues forever. The rationale is that the Church wants all other religions to bring their truth into ours and emphasizing the Great Apostasy doesn’t do that because it declares them as being wrong. We do not have a monopoly on truth nor do we have all truth there is to know. What the Prophet is emphasizing is that the name of the Church is what we represent to others when we do the WORK of the Church. We don’t speak for the Church but we do represent it when we do the work. Outside the Church work, saying Mormon to emphasize to non members that they can only use it when not referencing the name of the Church is the point of the video, and his ok with it.
How is diverting from using the "Mormon" nickname de-emphasizing Joseph Smith and the Restoration? Mormon was not directly involved with Joseph Smith nor the Restoration. He is a supportive person to the story at best.
"There is no salvation between the two lids of the Bible without a legal administrator." - Joseph Smith Considering that would apply to all volumes of scripture, including the Book of Mormon, that leaves you and other "Mormon but not LDS," "Joseph but not Brigham," or "Jesus but not the prophet" folk in a real pickle.
Would love to see a diagram of all the sub orgs, LLCs, corps, etc that are "part of" The Corporation of the President of TCoJCoLdS; with where incorporated, purpose, tax status, revenues, assets, goverance, etc.
I think Pres. Nelson's direction was inspired for the time he introduced it. His desire for us to more effectively focus on Christ is righteous. The danger of excess you mention is valid, though the dangers of excess in using Mormon also potentially distances us from Christ. What type of error are you more comfortable with? I will call myself a Christian. If needed to distinguish myself, then I would describe myself as a Christian Restorationist, and then finally a Mormon. We should strive to unify to a body of Christ as much as possible.
Nelson did this same thing back in the day when Hinckley was around and Hinckley called him out for it and said he was wrong. Hinckley is not longer around to defend the use of Mormon.
💯% agree that using the term ‘Mormon’ is totally appropriate and that The Church should be addressed using the full name. Similar situation as to whether members are actually ‘members’ of the Church, with Americans being actual ‘citizens’ of the United States of America, which was incorporated in the 1870s. (I’m Canadian, so uncertain as to the exact date).
IMO, whether I am a member of the worldly legal organization through which the leaders of the church conduct the necessary affairs of the church is unimportant. I agree almost without exception to your portrayal Of President Nelson‘s emphasis regarding how the church shall be called. The name was never in doubt. In my observation, the Lord allows, his leaders some leeway in governing his church. They are mostly right most of the time, but not exactly right all of the time. As leaders, we need to be careful to seek the will of the Lord at all times and not fashion matters to our own preferences/likings, last the members within our stewardship experience similar whiplash, and worse, a crisis of faith.
