Primoz Roglic and Vingegaard Drop Sepp Kuss on Angliru | Vuelta a Espana 2023 Stage 17 

The best quote of all time : " There is no Sep Kuss for Sep Kuss on Angliru"

This must be one of the strangest grand tours ever. From day 1 to now.... just crazy.

Landa rode well for Kuss, probably saved Kuss's red jersey, similar to the way Kuss saved the entire Giro for Roglic earlier this year. It is what it is.

Being 4 minutes ahead of everyone else, I think it would be ridiculous if Jumbo don't try to give Kuss the Overall Win. He has done so much for them and has put all his personal ambitions aside, despite being capable of leading a team and being a Top 10 Grand Tour finisher in his own right.

These guys have more respect for GC rivals than their own loyal teamates.

Kuss should give Landa a hug for being such loyal domestic.

Sepp Kuss has been there for both of them-JV and PR-working and sacrificing for years during their tour wins. Yet, they attack him whenever the opportunity arises, instead of helping him to control things. And Jumbo’s boss is full of it when he said they weren’t attacking Sepp. I saw it with my own eyes, are you kidding me? I hope they come to their ethical senses and support Sepp for the win otherwise in my book, it’s total betrayal. Ironically, we can thank Landa, an adversary, for keeping Sepp in the red jersey-not his teammates.

After all he's done for them, it's cruel to try and take it away from him on these final stages.

The thing that rubs me wrong is that Kuss works for these two to win important stages of grand tours. Now he’s got the leader’s jersey and neither one will give him the courtesy of a pull. Imagine if Kuss had dropped either one to go grab a stage win the the Giro or the Tour.

Dude, you are KILLING it with the commentary. In other words, really good job, seriously.

Kuss did a good job minimizing the damage today. If he has a good day tomorrow it could be enough. He has to mark his teammates very carefully. Every man for himself at this point

Sepp is such a great team player and so optimistic. He has to be the best politician. Sepp has been the primary climbing domestic for both of them for five grand tours in a row. Not to mention all the other stage races he has helped win. It’s a pity that these teammates don’t understand that they didn’t do it by themselves. It’s even worse that management is blowing apart the team they fought so hard to build. Maybe because Jumbo Visma is not sponsoring in the future, the team won’t be able to pay Sepp, Jonas and Primos, so they are willing to burn a promising American, to keep one star. The worst part was, yesterday was Sepp’s birthday! Happy Birthday Sepp Kuss!

Wouldn’t it be nice for Kuss to win and TJV to have three different grand tour winners - that’s TEAM WORK!

Honestly shocking to see. Even hours later, I'm still speechless. People who talk about 'no one deserves gifts' don't understand cycling it seems. Its about teamwork and you constantly gift each other help, lead-outs, pacing, protection from the wind, etc, etc. Kuss has done it for every grand tour they've won. Not only did they not return the favor, they attacked him outright. Shocking. One can only hope Kuss somehow holds on and wins, despite having no teammates, a field of riders still trying to get a win and his own teammates even fighting against him. If he pulls it off, at least there will be absolutely no talks of 'gifts' after this.

I just want to point out a few things: 1) Jonas looked VERY comfortable in Roglic' wheel and I have little doubt that he could have dropped Roglic and taken the red jersey if he had wanted to. This tells me that he is infact not just "going for it". 2) It is one thing to gift stage wins to teammates as we've seen plenty of times in the past (including by Jonas and Primoz) and quite another for the strongest rider in the peloton to gift a grand tour to a teammate. After his sickness has evaporated, Jonas IS the strongest rider in the peloton, probably even by far. Him gifting the Vuelta to Sepp would probably be the biggest gift given to a teammate in cycling history. 3) Sepp has been the best super domestique in the world over the last few years, no doubt about that, but it is ridiculous to talk about how Sepp has sacrificed for Jonas and Primoz. To ride for them is literally his JOB and he gets paid handsomely for it and has become one of the most popular riders in the world because of it. Probably a better deal than being a tier 2 captain on a smaller team. Regardless, none of the "sacrifices" that Sepp has made even begins to compare to sacrificing a grand tour win. Jonas can complete a historic tour-vuelta double. Primoz can win a historic fourth Vuelta. You don't even get to that place unless you are single-mindedly competitive. It is not a small thing to ask these riders to give it up when it is within their grasp or in Jonas' case, 100% there for the taking if he wants it. 4) Everybody has said that there is an agreement on the team that if one of the three gets dropped, the other two doesn't wait around for them. Of course it can definitely be argued that the Angliru was different because they were just those three Jumbo riders ahead of everybody else, but still. 5) Yes, I also want Sepp to win and want the fairytale ending. I think a key reason why so much fuss is being out of this is exactly because everybody loves Sepp. But I must say I object to the villanization of Jonas and Primoz.

Was waiting for this video after seeing the end of the stage

My biggest cheer of the race so far was seeing Kuss stick to Landa and pull back some seconds. Would be one of those iconic sporting moments if Kuss goes on and wins in Madrid, But I think the ego's of Roglic and Vingegaard will prevent it.

Before this stage, the only potential threats left to Jumbo finishing 1, 2, 3 on GC were Ayuso and Mas. Both had fallen a long way behind by the time the three Jumbo riders were left as the leading group of three going up the last climb. There was no reason to ride away from Kuss other than the rivalry between Jonas and Primoz was too intense to obey team orders. Some people are questioning whether Kuss will go elsewhere because of this. I am wondering which of Jonas and Primoz will leave.

I can just feel the relationship on the Jumbo Visma team breaking apart. Sometimes the bigger goal of team cohesion is greater than the goal of wining a grand tour. It is ironic that while dominating this tour with 1, 2 and 3 on the GC they are looking like the team that is losing the most.

It's pretty simple. You don't ever attack a teammate in the leader's jersey.

Landa MVP

Sat on the bus the other day, little kid was jealously staring 10 minutes straight on my LRCP cap 😂❤️

I remember Laurent Jalabert in this very race, trying desperately to let a journeyman rider from another team win a stage as both knew that it would probably be the guy's only day in the sun. That was class as opposed to whatever this is.

Thank you for this. Was waiting for this

Would be interesting knowing the dynamics in the team bus, whether this was agreed upon beforehand. On the one hand Kuss deserves recognition for his domestique work. On the other hand the two leaders are grand tour winners and are hungry for success ie "best cyclist wins".

"He shot a cat, anyway"

Aside from anything else, funniest day of cycling in several years.

It makes no sense to go up the road further without Kuss. He has been there for both those riders when they have needed help winning. Not sure the tactic to push him off the win. No teammate should be battling to stay in the race lead vs. his own teammates who they have helped win major races. This is his 3rd grand tour this year and Primoz has fresher legs - he should of backed off and all crossed the line together showing support for Kuss. Just really makes me made to see how he was treated on his birthday for crying out loud!

Jumbo Visma communication in times of a shitstorm because of their tactics is like: SEPP🙂: thinks the "desires and whishes in the race are by now all satisfied" in his opinion he wants to go "to the next stages in a more defensive way" JONAS🌚: hopes "Sepp wins the GC" (but attacks with Roglic anyways and almost takes GC) ROGLIC😐: "is here to race" (wich means he wants to attack an see who's best) but at the same time "is the first who wants Sepp to win GC" I think there will be some tense Team Meetings to come. Hopefully Sepp can prevail in them. In my opinion the director would be wise to start giving clear instructions to avoid further tensions in the team. (The quotes all come from interviews after today's stage)

Perhaps the funniest thing is that Jumbo's socials are trying to highlight their 'teamwork' today. Bunch of clowns.

Jonas' attack yesterday made more sense than him sticking to Primoz' wheel today... Sepp being a domestique for Roglic at the beginning of the climb since clearly they wanted to give him a stage win but why Landa ended up fulfilling Jonas' role today is beyond me

Love how you sprinkle in the still shots in these videos

If Sepp leaves Jumbo after this, who could blame him? Vingegaard needs him for the Tour, there's no similar domestique at the moment.

On the one hand, they should have waited for Kuss since he's worked tirelessly for them and since there was no tactical reason to drop him. On the other hand... wait, what the hell, why did they do that?!?!?!

Jonas had no business following Roglic's wheel when he already took time from them yesterday. Roglic kept his pace because he wants the stage win. He's more than 1 minute behind Kuss in GC so he isn't threatening the red jersey. Jonas could have slowed down and stayed with Kuss, if he really wants Kuss to stay in red. His actions say otherwise. 🤷‍♀️

Landa was the only birthday present for Sepp today! Team morale at JV means nothing it seems.

Dudes saying that roglic and jonas shouldnt wait because "the strongest win". remember that this is 5h GT in a row for Kuss. In 4 of them being the best domestique in the peleton. He could be potentially much much stronger at this moment if he could prepare for vuelta like roglic. Saying that the strongest wins is just so stupid at this particular moment

Helping team members win happens, especially from leaders that appreciate/ want continued support from their team riders who sacrifice their own glory. Wout for LaPorte at this years Gent Wevelgem.. maybe Wout needs to make a few calls 😊

UAE: well if we can't get on the podium we'll at least get the.most dysfunctional team award TJV: hold my bidon

If Kuss does win it will be without support from his teammates. If the other two have a bad day Kuss would be there to offer a wheel. Kuss, so far, is being left to fend for himself with no ‘Kuss’ figure to support him. There is no gift at this stage. He has held his own with the current Giro and Tour winners attacking him.

Excluding this Vuelta, Kuss has ridden 11 Grand Tours as a jumbo domestic, contributing to 6 victorys plus 2 second places at the TDF. A couple of those wins probably wouldn't have happened without him (roglic giro and his weaker vuelta wins). So the Jumbo tactics here are nothing but despicable. yes I know I put the same thing under the podcast too but I didn't want to waste the 3min of pcs research lol

I'm split: on the one hand, Kuss has done such a good job. He deserves the win! On the other, this is a race. The best/strongest should win.

Almost couldn't get that KILLER birthday candle line out LR? Loved it

Kuss might need to find a new team after this. Seems very little mutual respect here... He rides selflessly for Roglic and Vingegaard when they are in the lead, but they drop him without concern when he's in the lead.

Landa braking over the line to gift Sepp the bonis. An honorary American!

After rooting for Vingegaard at the last two TdF, the symphathy scores, I had for him, have imploded today. That means, that I hope that Remco will beat him at next year's TdF, although I used to be rather suspicious about his performances. And if not Remco, then Tadej, to whom I also used to be rather suspicious, or anyone else, but Jonas. It may not be logical, but that's how I FEEL after this stage. Don't even feel sorry for leaving Jonas followers. Greetings from Germany.

Great video LR! I still believe in Jumbo letting GC KUSS win the overall, but at this point I don't even know what they're planning anymore. Also what really got me in stitches was the "and they keep going" at 2:32, timed so perfectly that you see the roadside sponsor ad that says "KEEP GOING" 😂

that Wout poels still can ride high tempo like he did for froome is just a different level

jumbo visma has basically secured all the podium positions at this point, i hope tjv sees that and stops roglic and vingegaard from attacking kuss from this point onwards

When I saw Almeida drop at the start and then start catching people I immediately thought of LR’s rant the other day 😂

I was waiting for Horner to rock up on his rim brake Madone out of mountain mist and drag Sepp back up to the front. His own team mates FULLY dogged him up the Angliru!

That last hour of the stage is worth watching for anyone who has access to it.

Landisimo 👏🏻

Treacherous team mates!!! I hope Sepp remembers this next year!

Good thing Landa was there to do the job Sepp’s teammates wouldn’t. As Dan Lloyd said, “a PR own goal for TJV”. I have felt mostly positively about this team until today. Let’s see what tomorrow brings.

The positive press giving a domestique a win in a grand tour would instantly make Roglic and Vingegaard legendary. One grands tour more or less for them two doesn't really change their post career image, I think.

Yes they should’ve waited for him & pull😂 but Sepps a beast too, he held his own. ❤

To those who think Kuss shouldn't be "gifted a win": what is the difference between Kuss pacing for another rider to help them win a grand tour vs. other riders pacing for Kuss in this Vuelta? Does it mean Kuss has "gifted" his captains the Tour and Giro this year? I'm honestly trying to understand your viewpoint.

Kuss saluting Landa at the end. That was nice.

Life in the Peloton podcast just released an excellent interview with Sepp Kuss earlier today. Highly recommended.

Too hyped for the drama/discussion/speculation

The work Landa did for Kuss in those final kilometers really proves that he will be a great helper for Evenepoel next year!

Let the show finally begins!

Landa, class act.

This is a team sport they should protect their leader. It’s one thing if Sepp cracks and has a bad day, it’s another when you attack your leader 3km from the end of the stage when nobody from another team is nearby or even close on GC. Jumbo is taking an amazing PR story and turning it into a PR disaster.

A hard stage and a very tactical play by TJV... And happy birthday Kuss!!! 🎂 ❤

Ty for vid😅

Cobo hahaha. Poels did really good this stage. I like to see him riding well. Roglic just smashed this climb. He looked invincible.

For all the Jonas and Primoz haters, I hereby quote them: Jonas: “The stage win was our main goal today. The goal was of course to remain in the first three spots of GC. Everything went according to the plan. To be honest, I’m happy that Sepp is riding in the jersey. I hope he holds on to it. I would find it amazing if Sepp wins the Vuelta. Primoz: “It’s my own responsibility to do my upmost. Eventually we’ll see who is the strongest. The one with the best legs will win the Vuelta.” Sepp: “On monday we decided to let the strongest one win. Winning the Vuelta won’t be easy. I know this is my only chance to win a Grand Tour. I never expected to be in this position. I went in without expectations and wanted to help the others. Now I have this beautiful jersey. Backstage, we work together very well. Of course I want to go for my own chances, but I don’t mind riding for the others.” And lastly Grischa, team leader: “It’s incredible. We’re looking good, but er have a few tough stages still to go. I think that everyone likes to see Sepp in the lead. But we decided that everyone could ride for their own chances.” Hope this somewhat makes the situation in the team clear

Can not believe how Sepp’s teammates are riding, his leading the race , leading the race as race leader , who you help not drop

What I would give to be on the JV team bus tomorrow morning at pre-race meeting 😬😬😬

I guess people forget that the captain of a team is whoever is best on GC and is not threatened by the competition. Every teammate should protect his position, regardless of the fact that this person may not have come to the race with any ambition and regardless of any other potential personal need of his teammates. When Kuss, Vingegaard and Roglic were alone at 2km to the finish line there was no need to drop him, especially for Vingegaard. Stop saying "the best rider should win the race", as if every grand tour winner isn't used to take advantage of his teammate at every possible chance. It doesn't matter that Vingegaard won the Tour and Roglic the Giro: if Kuss is in red, they are all alone with him in the front, you don't attack him: someone (Vingegaard) should have played the role of his domestique

It’s one thing for Roglic to shore up the third place as Vingegaard did in previous 1-2-3 but had no reason to kick Kuss in the nuts and take him out of red. Jonas could have supported Sepp and helped him to the line but did not. Disappointing from Roglic and Jonas.

I've always had this question and can't hold it anymore. When Landa "saves" Kuss, why is it so? Isn't the drafting advantage almost none when going uphill? Why is it still so helpful? Genuinely curious.

Kuss has GOT to recover better than the others. And he could recruit help from other teams.

What an amazing birthday present for Sepp Kuss from his "team-mates"!

so Roglic in his post-race interview basically saying he went pretty much full gas and that Kuss should just fight for it and he’ll win. I mean… cool that he believes in him. But perhaps he shouldn’t forget that if it wasn’t for Kuss he maybe wouldn’t have won all the races he has. Cycling as a team sport has strange dynamics and today it worked out perfectly for the team, but still it’s a bit weird how not Jonas nor Primoz can adapt to being a domestique, especially to Kuss, who is well ready to take the win. Saying as a Slovene and Roglic fan. Sorry he can’t win it but the beauty of cycling still is that it is inherently a team sport

"Shot a cat and got released.." I forgot about this and it caught me off guard how casual it was dropped lmfaaoo! keep it up Laterne Rouge!

Landa is the true hero of today stage

this vuelta reminds me a lot of the 2012 tour... you had a defending champ with a relatively weaker team (cadel evans in 2012 and remco in this years vuelta) who cracked really badly one day and then an absolutely stacked team with drama between who should be the real leader (sky with froome and wiggins in 2012, jumbo with sepp, jonas, and roglic now). the main difference being, that sepp is in the leaders jersey rather than froome and wiggins hadn't won a grand tour at the time. i think what makes this vuelta so much more interesting is that sepp clearly is not as strong as jonas or even primoz. i think we would all love to see sepp win the vuelta, and i believe if he gets through tomorrow he will. also, i do think jonas seems more genuine when he says he wants to see sepp win the vuelta. he certainly could have taken the red jersey today if he wanted to, but he just sat in primoz's wheel. primoz on the other hand, seems to know that his time is coming to an end and that this could be one of his last chances to win a grand tour. as much as he wants sepp to win, he also wants to win for himself. tomorrow (stage 18) will be really interesting for sure

Sepp : "guys im dropped" Primoz: "do I know you?"

8 seconds … small enough for Jonas to accidentally win … Roglic will sulk and attack for second … Kuss may even end up mentally crushed by the on the team coach politics and end up with nothing … in the future Jonas will have fewer haters as a result, Roglic will not care and Kuss will still be a nice guy cherished by those who value selflessness and loyal …. Just supposin’

Landa is the man of the day

Great Jumbo domination!

the story of the day nobody talks about: Landa only 16 seconds behind 4th place now i.e. Vuelta VICTORY as soon as Jumbo get popped 👏

To me it’s clear from both the stage and the interviews after.. Roglic wants Roglic to win it. No surprise we know he’s an assassin. Kuss feels he’s earned it. But he’d rather not be gifted it. And Jonas wants Kuss to win and if he can he will help that cause tomorrow. Earned a few fans today I thought did Jonas.. Jumbo have it all sewn up, they are already celebrating…. Big day for the American coming up!

Beast

All in for Kuss now surely, the podium is done.

At least in the Danish interview after the stage, Jonas seemed to support that Kuss should win the Vuelta. I dont think Jonas/Primoz will attack Kuss tomorrow. So if Kuss can keep up with the other strong opponents, I think Kuss will win the Vuelta.

Bro they better ride for Kuss tomorrow. But i get it, pro sport has no gifts. And none of them might be in this position ever again. When you have La Vuelta win on the line you will fight for it. Goes for all 3 of them. But Kuss would be a nice champion :) Go Kuss!

Kuss: Vingegaard told me on the climb that I would win the Vuelta, but I was skeptical. I told them to go on when I couldn't follow anymore. The strongest must win. No crying from Kuss. Vingegaard wants Kuss to win, but if he ain't fast enough, Vingegaard will take it. That's top sport, deal with it and stop crying, folks!

Let Sep Kuss win a Vuelta. He has helped the others so much in the other races.

Jonas is a smart rider. He's a borderline unreadable, both by stage and by tour. Played domestique early in the Vuelta and didn't look like much of a GC candidate, but then did what he did in Le Tour and wound it up gradually. Keeps his powder dry, loses a few seconds here and there without freaking out over big attacks, and always sees the bigger picture - even if that means dropping his teammate. I think Roglic is his main rival, not Kuss. Jonas can win the Vuelta if he wants to, but maybe he lets Kuss stay in red and keeps him on side (in 2024+). I love all these guys - Pog, Rog, Kuss, Remco - but to me, Jonas is on another level right now. The GC battle is all TJV - of course they're going to fight it out for ultimate honours.

From what jumbo said on twitter, Sepp said "go guys" when he got dropped

Great ride from Jumbo "Cobra Kai" Visma. Don't forget to sweep the leg, no mercy even if it's your teammate.

4:27 anyone else noticed the phone setup on the rock recording the riders? I imagine the fan spend a long time during the wait to get the perfect spot and angle

It seemed to me that even Sepp was riding for Primoz to get the stage today. But why did Jonas drop him? I hope there is a reason, because I honestly admire all three of these riders. Go Sepp! He's earned this grand tour win!

Lets just say Tadej Pogacar is accumulating fans for next years Tour de France by the day.

Dope.

As much as I'd love to see Sepp win, he has stated he doesn't want it gifted. TJV goal at this point is 123 overall. They don't care who gets 1 2 or 3. The 3 of them are racers and if their only competition is on their own team then they're racing their own teammates. Edit: I'm not sure why I've had at least 3 people blasting me for repeating what Sepp said. Sepp said he doesn't want the win gifted not me. Don't get mad at me, get mad at the guy you're defending.