Jonas Vingegaard Plays Domestique for Sepp Kuss | Vuelta a Espana 2023 Stage 18 

If he ever won a tour I would be very surprised

Well that's a pretty bold claim

Nah, to weak mentally

Kuss iz a strong domestique 3GT

Na, being leader would be too much pressure. I can’t imagine him as a GT winner

Great to see Jonas and Rog have become honorable men of integrity and compassion. It takes a heart of gold to achieve that... something that Sepp has always had.

Totally agree. Big JV fan but think the ego here is Roglic

@@user-sg3xd4dj1p Jonas looks depressed on interview too. Probably wanted (and was capable) to take 2 tours a year

@@PhilosophicalSockno, he wanted Sepp to win

@@ChristianW1975 No, he SAID he wants Sepp to win. Because people never lie, right? Even if best intentions and good reasons, it still could be a lie inside his mind. We can never know. Wanting to win another GT is not a crime. But he has to maintain good atmosphere in the team and with Sepp personally, which is more important strategically than taking a GT right now. Also community wanted Sepp to win, and team management knew it will be good for their public image

He's a meme.

He is a meme and will always be remebered as the guy that won a grand tour because he was gifted it.

​@@rojkar1300unlike legends like yourself who have won loads of GTs on your own merit. Clown.

Pretty hard to work your ass off all these years, get a win and the doubters think you're just some schmuck who rode up on an e-bike, following his boys only to be "gifted". Sure it wasn't a dominating win, yes his team helped him. He still had to ride the freaking race, and beat all other teams. Jeez, give the guy some credit. I guess we could consider Hinault and Wiggins as meme's because they were gifted tours.

There is nothing wrong with getting 2nd or 3rd in the Vuelta. But Kuss will always be remembered for being gifted a Grand Tour by his team mate. What an incredibly generous gift from Jonas !

Hard crowd to please! JV wins he gets smacked if he supports he gets smacked 😂 🙄

​@@2niteL8Rpretty obvious there's reluctance here

@@veganpotterthevegan I think it’s a tricky situation for the team and the riders. I would like to see Sepp have a win! Saying that as a Dane! I can also see the desire and dilemma for all involved. We the punters here are quick to judge. We think we know! I would like to see both Rog and JV ride in support of, and that Sepp makes the most of that opportunity!

@2niteL8R not a total punter. I'm an expro and couldn't imagine pulling the nonsense they pulled yesterday. And it's not like plenty of pro tour riders haven't stated how bothered they are by what happened. Sepp had gladly stopped on the road multiple times in his career to wait for Jonas and Roglic when he could have had a career defining win instead.

​@@veganpotterthevegansource: trust me bro.

About time they copped on! The Team Directors finally said they were the bosses!

This was a call of social media, no doubts about that after Roglic words. The Directors would have done nothing if they have not felt all the pressure coming after those 2 stages. I can believe Jonas would not take the win from Kuss by himself, but if it was not yesterday Roglic would have attacked today 200%. Jumbo is just so much better than everyone else that they can do these unbelievable mistakes and still smoke everyone in the race.

​@@GDF07People on social media are not he smartest.

@@hisztorry And yet here we are 😳😂

@@brendanward9877 I think Roglic is the one that (finally) shot Jonas down. On the previous stage Jonas raced against Kuss and Roglic. And that move could have cost the entire team by the time the last mountain stage is complete. Especially of continually repeated.

Agreed. Best “mess", I ever seen. Jonas excels, on evry parameter

This mess is what makes Remco shine, otherwise we all know he won because both Pr and Jv, were holding back to protect kuss.

I almost don't think anything has gone according to Jumbo's plan this Vuelta. I highly doubt they planned on Kuss getting in a break and taking so much time on GC. Probably also expected him to bomb on the TT. And then didn't expect Jonas to take a minute on a 5km climb with 4 UAE riders chasing him. Probably also didn't expect the PR nightmare when Roglic won yesterday. Overall a decent result for them though even though nothing went as expected.

I think the goal was to put more time between third and fourth places. The strategy was to use all hands to attack/weaken the GC group. If an attacker gets a gap, they should go as far as they can, while the others sit on until they are ready to attack again. What happened was -- well, YOU chase down Jonas when he's feeling good! The important result was pushing the gap between Roglic and Ayuso to nearly three minutes, allowing Jumbo to ride strictly defensively.😊😊😊

@@GDF07 > didn't expect Jonas to take a minute on a 5km climb with 4 UAE riders chasing him This I can see them actually expect. JV is a KING on any ascent over 10% ... this is where he is truely unbeatable. Which is why even record-time Angliru was a cakewalk for him, he basically just relaxed in Roglics wheel.

+ winning a stage

Congrats on the tri brother Hope youre hooked. After reading this I can only imagine, I’m gonna end up firing it off in my head next big ride.

Litterly

They're not politicians but you are their campaign manager. LOL.

I think this stage made the TJV inside feuds pretty clear. Roglic wants his 4th vuelta win and because he's leaving TJV at the end of the season anyway he wouldn't worry about ruining any team dynamics. Jonas has a competitive rivalry with roglic, so he felt like he should, and when he could he did, attack roglic. But Jonas isn't gonna attack Sepp, we saw today how he slow down to get some distance between him and his teammate in GC. Jonas attacked to get 2nd in GC, and yesterday roglic attacked Kuss so he attacked Roglic himself. If roglic doens't attack Kuss now, Jonas has no reason to attack either

​@@ivanbastos4963lol you literally just did what the commenter said not to do

Spot on. The public looking dumb with their comments on the previous days.

Must suck if you made a bet on him as winner.

Jv just let this one go. Now he is just in it for fun

He is the best climber right now. There's hardly anyone to compete with him on long high climbs. Had a feeling he was holding back even on stages he won. At Angliru too, he could have smoked Primoz but chose not to take the red jersey away from Kuss.

Even Vingegaard is not in his best shape, he still way ahead of everyone in their very best. Only Pogačar can battle against Vingegaard.

He needs a 4 week tour, its too easy for him

Yes, i believe that you are 100% correct here.

I agree totally, it seemed abit dull holding back Pr and Jv but the team has decided due to pressure from fans and media. Otherwise RE wouldn't have won so easily today.

Dropping on purpose seems very hypothetical and not really like Vingegaard. Also Vingegaard was pacing for a long time which is really tiring so he might have been feeling it when Sepp upped the pace. Plus he was at the very back of the group and not really in a wheel.

@@vinnieboy3963 So you think that Landa and Mas (or who it was up front) whom Vingegaard has toyed with for the last two weeks suddenly today, of ALL days, were superior to Jonas? No I can't PROVE it, but it's damn unlikely considering that the pace up the last climb was not super intense or super long 😏 Jonas knows he will end second so why would he sprint like crazy the last 50m when he could see that Kuss was alright? Come on, it's obvious unless you're a die hard Kuss fan....

@@clauso72 He closed gaps, paced and was in a suboptimal position as you have less drag towards the front. Also your legs aren't the same every day and he went hard yesterday, so he could definitely get dropped, as a domestique. That doesnt mean that Landa and Mas (and Ayuso who is quite strong) are superior though.

They have been slapped into shape by the higher ups after the yesterday’s outcry, make no mistake about that

Looks like Jumbo Visma got the message. Social Media blew up last night with criticism about dropping Sepp on Stage 17. Chris Horner (2013 Vuelta GC winner) tore them a new one. Thank goodness Jumbo put in a solid team effort today on Stage 18 and protected Sepp and the Red Jersey. Kudos to Jonas & Primoz! Great ride Sepp! Chris Horner, Butterfly Effect: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FjmvsJkD9To.html

@@JP41257Chris Horner is an absolute hack

And how about pulling up stumps? Quite obviously Jonas has been the best rider in the Vuelta (looked totally unbothered by roglic’s pace yesterday) and it’s a slap in the face of the race and the other competitors. I get the team aspect but Jumbo should’ve done a better job of keeping this from turning into what it has.

and todays knucklehead award goes toooo.......... the american social shitstorm and Chris Horner himself. Bravo America you won the Vuelta for GC Kuss@@JP41257

Not a gift, a payback

Not a payback, the man is good at the job he is paid for

No No a gift for Jumbo! It's very important to remember that cycling is a TEAM sport so Kuss didn't win anything. Jumbo did 🙄 Jumbo also won TDF and the Giro. Don't even know why Roglic and Vingegaard worked so hard....

Gift? It's called teamwork

not a payback, a GIFT, a shameful one too @@nicolasl

oh yeah for sure, also don't forget the Netflix effect. I know the TdF series is half in French, but it's being promoted to the same people who watched and loved Drive to Survive, and that must have played a large part in the recent growth of F1 in America.

Rabobank will return to cycling.

They already have a new Sponsor locked up. It‘s some European crypto trading Company/Site…

I do not hope so Americans means a lot of unnecessary drama, not the individual but the media hype that follows.

​@@r3drum3k92you serious?

Smart move

Yep, for sure! I had the same idea he wanted a greater than 10 sec buffer so he can get a win without stealing the GC from Kuss.

So it is okay to win a stage now?

I wonder, when Roglic wins and is still 1 minute behind, it is wrong and everyone are angry. But when Vingegard wins, it is ok? Talking about double standards.

Tripple, woke standards to let the little man win was not part of the original script by Jumbo, but trapped two stronger riders due to social media pressure along the way.

It's like having Eddy Merckx and The Cannibal in the same break.

Jumbo Visma turned Remco into a breakaway rider

​@@user-xn8rz1ef6f😂 and took all the attention from him too

@@user-xn8rz1ef6f Remco's "wolf pack" did that.

It's two of the most dangerous riders to have in a breakaway!

Watching it real time, Vingegaard didn't look so strong today, actually.

@@cup_and_cone He definitely backed off on purpose today, he's definitely the strongest in the race

@@cup_and_cone ye definetely had more in the tank, and I'm sure he could've beaten Roglic on the Angliru

@@ste9240 I agree that it certainly looked like he could have rode away from Primoz yesterday. None of us are in the team bus, so who knows what the real story is or what Jonas was thinking.

True. He just sat up at angliru and today too..getting so much hate for nothing. He always managed the gap, if he wanted he would have smoked Primoz and Kuss.

Nah, not even close, it was obvious he was forced to behave

@@tonyg3091 He's said he like for Kuss to win ever since he first got the red jersey. Any excuse to hate on him just because you know he is the best GT rider in the world.

@@jeppelrkesen9060 Ah yes he said that…and then went on and attacked Sepp twice. Just to prove how much he wanted Kuss to win, lol

@@tonyg3091Cry baby. Just be happy that Kuss is winning the Vuelta

@@tonyg3091 Did he take the red jersey away from Kuss? No.

Yaaah he iz the strongest the way he bring bek Landa and Ayuso is something else

I can understand giving up a few stages to a domestique, but not a grand tour

Insane. Jonas may never be in a position to win the vuelta again. Shitshow.

@@dannyjensen2123 dude is their team's best gc guy and is 26 years old he got at least 5-7 more years to win the vuelta, sepp is 29 and a domestique. it is sepp who may never be in the position to win vuelta or any gt ever again.

@@austienbryandemesa5841 Jonas will hopefully leave this insane shitshow of a team as soon as possible. He cannot know if he will have the opportunity to win the Vuelta ever again. And he has just been forced to hand it over to a mediocre domestique who got lucky on a breakaway. This is scandalous and disrespect to the vuelta, Jonas and every real cycling fan.

Nah.. Haters still gonna hate. They'll just find something else o hate about him.

I think true cycling fans are not haters of Jonas, they all admire him for his talents. It’s the American bandwagon jumping on board the patriotic train that is causing all the fuss. It’s been all over the USA news that an American was leading the Vuelta and they all suddenly jump in and whinge to try and get their way. Blame it all on the strongest rider who is considerably stronger than their boy.

@@Spruikermania You're all absurdly wrong. You think critical commentary is only about allegiance to a cult or nation or something? Look up Freudian projection. Also look up false choice and straw man fallacies.

@@indonesiaamerica7050 They will finish 1,2,3 regardless so FFS let the strongest rider win. Kuss as a domesticate is paid very well, finishing 2nd or 3rd would be a great achievement knowing he earnt it. Kuss even said after Stage 16 that he didn’t want any favours. Now he will be remembered for receiving the most generous gift we have seen in Grand Tours this century. Jonas handing Kuss the Vuelta !!

That's what happens when you attack your teammate 3 times. I'm glad the team folded to the pressure. Jonas is forever a snake.

Hopefully not a Froome/Ineos situation, I really like him at Jumbo

They received so much flak after Stage 17 that they realised attacking/defeating Kuss would be a pr disaster and Kuss would up sticks. I am glad order has been restored. Kuss deserves this after all he has done for them. I think Roglic remains the fly in the ointment, though.

I wanted to see Roglic on Bahrain. It seems like they have the full mountain train to support a top GC rider.

@@djackson652 thanks for your insider knowledge! what would we do without you🥸

Exactlly , Jonas coveret seep , and only followed roglick , anyway they were the 3 strongest on the strongest team , Nice race

Sad to see the brain rot from people forgetting this is a team sport that no one wins by themselves; yes, even those who now have to pull for someone else for a change. Or maybe Jonas can race the TDF next year unaffiliated and we'll see how well he does.

@@plain-bagel What part of your comment had anything to do with what I wrote?

Sadly the english speaking commentators have their agenda. A joke. On a side note I hope that we will see real racing in the next GT.

I agree. Jonas took the stage the day before, fine. Yesterday Primos went while Sepp struggled and Jonas I think said sod it, I'm not handing the Vuelta to Primos

you are delusional. First you forgot team TT where jonas got dropped… Then he attacked 2 times when roglic stayed with kuss and when roglic attacked once sudenly he is the bad guy. I just wanted to see roglic free and we couldnt see that plus kuss got free ride where he made 4 minutes like jonas where he got 1 min. Noone was pulling….

Roglic attacked on angliru to win the stage and distance himself from landa not far behind in the back and very close on gc

@@781mmMy guy, Jonas had a mechanical during the TTT. Of course you wait there, he is the best GC Rider in the world right know. But what Roglic did yesterday was unnecessary. He could’ve waited for everybody and he would still outsprint them and on Tourmalet he tried to get a gap and failed, he could only gain time in the sprint to the line. Of course this isn’t bad per se, but there is no bad and good here, fact is that Jonas pulled for Sepp today and Roglic didn’t, Although Jonas is ahead of him.

@@moritzknoll1737 so when jonas was behind roglic he could attack red yersey but when roglic is 2minutes behind he cant??? You forgot that they let jonas 2 times to get away and bring back 1.40m???? The man was tired didnt you see that he was let to come back in the game?? Even on TT we saw where he was with his shape.

I've had an opinion since Ullrich took over for Riis.

Stop Biasing! Sepp Kuss earned it! Deservedly so... 😏

@@nataneley No doubt No doubt. But could Jonas have taken red if he wanted to🤔🤔

@@gace4916 From what I witnessed he tried but he couldn't

@@famaskim2310 I’m just saying that Jonas could have won the Veulta but decided to let Kuss win. Am I wrong?

@@nataneley He was pacing the last climb

How many Grand Tours did Sepp Kuss "give" away prior?

@@pfeifencarl None, he couldn't have won any of them...

​@@pfeifencarlzero? He is a great mountain domestique but not a gc rider.

​@@pfeifencarlHe gave up stages

It's not really a gift or giving away I think. It's just brilliant team tactics, looking forward to the future cooperation of these guys, they're common history and how they want the team to be remembered. Best possible outcome for the team and the fans. Great work!

How convenient of you to ignore the multiple stages during this Vuelta where Sepp was able to stay with his teammates or actually looked stronger but didn't attack them because he isn't selfish. And even on his off days when he was attacked he only lost a few seconds to his teammates and defended the jersey. Sepp is a worthy winner of this race on merit, and only the uneducated would think that this win is gifted

@@BoxCarBoy12 Are you in doubt as to who is the strongest rider and would take the most time on each other between Sepp Kuss and Jonas Vingegaard? And do you want me to link to a video of Jonas Vingegaard saying today that he hold back for Sepp Kuss to win? 😇 Afterwards, I'm sure you'd like another chance to consider whether the victory is a gift or not? And you will certainly get the opportunity to enlighten me in which of the two of us is the most "uneducated"? 😉

@@Smalldeine to your first point, yes Jonas is the better rider but you have to take the situation into account. He is fresher than Sepp since he has 1 less GT in his legs, yet Sepp only lost a few seconds to him when attacked. He persistently defended the jersey in multiple situations when he was expected to lose it. They may be on par with each other in this race. To your second point, you working for Sepp and gifting the race to him are two different things entirely. And while JOnas was riding at the front, that could have easily masked a bad day from him where he couldn't have attacked, but we will never know.

@@BoxCarBoy12 Nobody is questioning that Sepp Kuss is a great rider too. But right now you are making excuses for your earlier statement that Sepp Kuss victory isn't a gift. Sepp Kuss could possibly have gained more time on Jonas Vingegaard at the start of the race, when the Dane was affected by illness, but in the latter part of the race it has been quite clear - and even articulated by the involved themselves, that the riders have held back to let Sepp Kuss win. And when the strongest riders hold back to give someone else the overall victory, it cannot be described as anything other than a gift. I would still like to offer you the link to the interview from earlier today? Incidentally, I can also link the interview to you from yesterday, where Jonas Vingegaard is directly asked if it was nice to give Sepp Kuss a few seconds, if you want to hear his answer? The answers in both videos are transcribed in the articles.

@@Smalldeine We can agree to disagree on what a "gift" is. But by your definition Jonas's 2 TDF wins and Roglic's Giro and Vuelta wins are gifted wins as well, gifted to them by Sepp, especially since you agreed that Sepp was stronger in some stages but weaker than others. By your definition all wins in cycling are gifts. And that's fine, but the one thing I stand firm on is that gift or not if Sepp wins this Vuelta it is not a cheap or tarnished victory compared to Roglic's and Vingegaard's, like you are inferring, because he earned it.

"the eagle" received a medal out of pity.

Kuss will always be remembered for being gifted a Grand Tour. Jonas with the most incredible gift in cycling that we have seen this century. Lets hope the American fans are happy

The 'eagle' will be KFC before the last stage! He will crack, and no leader is going to 'carry' a domestique over the finish line. In your dreams!

@@-es2bf Yeah, it's a fkin shame what pro cycling has evolved into . . . leaders 'gifting ' domestiques Grand Tours?

@@savagepro9060just like domestiques “gifting” GTs to GC riders. It’s hilarious and an absolute joke to think anybody wins a tour by themselves. Wout and Kuss were pulling like crazy all TdF.

Roglic leaving, this what clowns did to the sport

the best from the rest

They let him go Jumbo Visma, no chance if he was in the top 5.

I blame Remco for all the negative press Jumbo is getting. If he didn't blow up and was competing for a podium spot on GC, Jumbo probably doesn't end up having to take turns winning stages and actually has to to race.

Would have been a really interesting dilemma if Remco had been gaining on GC and TJV had a choice between using Jonas and Primos to try to keep Sepp in red and risk that they would lose the win completely or else they could accept that Sepp couldn't hold on, not defend Sepp in red and instead have Sepp work to get Jonas or Remco into a good spot to take the jersey for the team. Without the rest of the field putting pressure on them you have the three TJV "squabbling" among themselves. Maybe it's wishful thinking that they always understood you don't take the leader's jersey from your own teammate, but I hope they all had that understanding. @@GDF07

​​@@GDF07 Hey, good for Remco like that so that Sepp will be secured for Vuelta 2023. If Remco maintains as a threat to TJV surely Jonas & Primos would compete with him toe-to-toe & hard for Sepp to hold his Red Jersey!

Your hypothetical took a wrong turn when you used Soler as an example, That guy is a squirrely, unreliable teammate who is famous for bailing on his team's plan. He's basically the opposite of Sepp.

@@charliedillon1400 but Soler was number 2 in GC not too long ago, also rode the time trial of his life just like Kuss, AND he pulled Pogacar on Mont Blanc and saved his podium in TdF. By that logic, he DESERVES to be given the red jersey right? Because that seems to be the case with Kuss. Suddenly, the same logic does not apply because it’s not Sepp Kuss. 🤷‍♀️

@@lalala-vh4pi Spot on mate. Or imagine Verstappen was told not to overtake Perez just because he was in the lead in lap 4 out of 50 laps. Shame it has come down to this, that the winner is picked on social media.

The NBA MVP is an individual award so your Kobe Bryant example doesn't work. Cycling and basketball are team sports, Jonas/Primoz doesn't win without Sepp and Kobe doesn't win without Shaq, Gasol, etc. People with your mindset do not understand the concept of a team sport at all.

@@BoxCarBoy12 it’s exactly as you say, they are both team sports and are very similar. Kobe have had so many important helpers but I don’t see a world where he would give up being MVP to one of his precious helpers who helped the team win. Being a GT champion is an individual award as well. Being 2nd place is not the same.

Cheers

maybe Sky way back but not lately for sure

@@timliscum2861I was thinking Astana in 2009. They nearly swept the Tour podium!

Always sad to have to mention it and i hope tjv are clean, but in the past decades only teams with the "best" doctors got close

La Vie Claire

I guess we should not talk about it, but I remember US postal beeing this dominant in the dark ages...

Really? You mean like when he told Yates to keep going and fight for his podium position when Pog cracked in the TDF? Pog is the best teammate one could ask for!

@@Xavierfanchris He was completely roasted....Jonas isn't 😂

​@@Xavierfanchris😭

Yeah isn’t that something. We will see

Is a Saudi winning the Vuelta?

I am sure sponsor know this probably be a one time experience that a tour can develop like this so it end up that Sepp will be racing for win

@@bene4577😂😂😂😂

@@tonyg3091 World Champions of WHAT

You may be right, but please learn the difference in meaning between "lose" and "loose.". You spelled it wrong 3 times in a row. One loses time, one looses (sets loose) cattle.

Couldn't have happened to a more likeable guy and it probably only happened because Jonas wasn't on another team.

Yep, he certainly looks promising.

Evenepoul can't be happy that Roglic started the Vuelta with so much more depth supporting him (especially when Vingegaard was nominally part of the support but easily capable of taking over if Roglic showed any signs of weakness. But throwing a stage? Not a chance. First, it would be totally out of character for any top rider to concede a grand tour when GC time gaps are small and there are many hard stages remaining where the picture could change dranatically. Second, although winning KOM going away, multiple stages (three already, with a great shot at four) plus several combativity awards would be a total triumph for almost anyone, but they're consolation prizes when you're the world champion and defending last year's Vuelta victory. And third, from what I've seen, Evenepoul doesn't only want to win, he wants to crush the opposition.He's about the last person I could imagine giving up instead of fighting as hard as possible.

It wasn't a heart, it was an O for his wife.

No. If Kuss had not been in the break, there is no chance that he wins the Vuelta. But he would still have been 3rd on the podium behind Vingegaard and Roglic and that's impressive in itself.

did he not try earlier on? and still ended outside top 15? As profesional as Jumbo is, I think that the numbers they have on the riders, no one comes close to Jonas. Jonas is kinda freak of nature, his lungs and heart are much larger as I remember.

As Kuss said earlier... Before the tt.. He hasn't been on the tt bike for a long time and he never put a serious dig at the previous grand tours.