PT6 failure in Mike Patey's Turbulence 2023 

I'd be surprised if Mike Patey wasn't one of your subscribers. Honestly, he should fly himself up to the great white north to visit your shop.

"air turns corners better than rocks and sticks and little birds".....classic JayZ

This was absolutely fantastic. You are a gifted teacher - among your many other talents. Every PT-6 pilot could learn a lot from this. I’d bet my hat on that. Thanks a lot.

Years ago you were the very first channel ever watched because I was curious about jet engines and rediscovering you today after not seeing your channels for a couple years and I'm familiar with the Mike patey situation and it was refreshing to hear your take on it

Just want to say that I have been enjoying your lectures for a long time and have learned lots about the machines that keep my humble butt alive at work. You are appreciated and respected! Thank you.

hey, this talk reminds me of a helicopter monitoring system that i built for north sea operators, in 1986...recorded and checked for temperature and rpm on twin-turbine aircraft, and used a time/temp/rpm algorithm to turn on warnings for exceedences of 'caution'/alarm/'please land now!' ... thanks for showing how this well-known turbine works!

Well you made that completely digestible and easy to understand. You have an educational gift (I'm sure you've heard this 1000 times).

Thank you for that very clear exposition of the PT-6 flow path and general arrangement. Good stuff!

This is exactly the take I wanted *while* watching Mike’s video. Thanks for breaking it down and I look forward to Mike’s response.

really very clear explanation of how a PT6 engine works, and also the dangers of hot starts and sudden shut down from high power. Also a very clear reason for boroscope inspection of the hot parts of the engine. brilliant thanks.

I’m glad you have healed enough to ride to Oshkosh. Now that I’m older I find don’t photograph as many planes as I used to. I began to realize I’m missing the show by looking through the viewfinder.

You are the very person I wanted to analyze this event that happened to Mike's engine

As a retired pilot and survivor of near 12,000 hrs as Capt of helicopters, both single and twin, I can tell you engines fail. Twice after maintenance ! Once the engineer lost a bolt whist refitting the engine intake after a 100 hr. You could see the new bolt fitted in the 12 o'clock position. A search was made and the missing bolt successfully found hiding in the corner or the engine intake. later in flight some hours later it made its way into the engine causing a failure with massive vibration. After the emergency landing another engineer found the offending bolt chewed up and back in its natural hiding place in the lowest corner of the intake. It had repeatedly bounced off the compressor blades, breaking bits off all over the place, those went through the engine. The 100 hr engineer lied about the situation, saying he never replaced the bolt. saying he never lost the bolt. yet we had the "old" bolt and the evidence of the newly fitted replacement ... Its colour was like new the others were darkened with dirt and soot. Then with other evidence and the passage of an ongoing legal dispute and 5 years later he confessed. The claim against his insurers was eventually met. Is this form of dishonesty unusual ???? No... the conflict of interest is there. Disciplinary action or a white lie ??? The second was in a single engine type. A hired helicopter, I noticed on first start it was slow to spin up and hung a bit. The engineer said it did that !! I was inexperienced at the time, and noticed it was maybe 5 seconds over the start max on first start of the day and quicker in subsequent starts. But it flew well and made the power. 2 days later, cruising at 2000 it exploded. The only word for it. Massive bang, yaw and instant lost of power auto landing and perfect short run on on smooth grass !!! Some blades had cut through the airframe and exited beyond, some had gone through the baggage compartment, some had hit the rotor blades. Did I say it went with a bang ??? I collected a handful of blades scooped out of the engine bay as souvenirs. Then the other two were in petrol types. The first the very next day after maintenance and the fitting of a new engine! Of course everyone pointed to the pilot as cause, yet the set up in my opinion lead to the waste gate not being calibrated properly meaning partial power or in my case, a restriction of air, insufficient for sustained flight. Again engineering told the truth as they knew it saying it was impossible, yet it happened and all evidence pointed to a faulty install. The next was my fault ..crop spraying an underpowered petrol heli running on minimum fuel all the time, dipping the tanks for accurate quantity reads and frequent refuels every 15 minutes, and error occured, My ground guy dipped the tank (it had two interconnected) the procedure was we only dipped one tank. I had landed in the corner of a field, it was ever so slightly out of level yet allowed the dip to be in error. The dipped tank gaining a benefit of fuel from the other slightly higher tank. Not quite on level ground gave a false dip stick reading .... at the 12 minute stage the engine stopped, whilst I was in the middle of a torque turn with a bucket close coupled below on the hook. It went quiet whilst the nose was up at 70 degrees in the turn, I saved the bucked and the helicopter and landed perfectly in the last seconds cutting loose the bucket and kicked the tail of the helicopter to one side so I did not land on it. Later as an owner of helicopters engaged in public transport flights we flew without incident for years, except I came across dishonesty more than once. Again this conflict of interest came into play, after damaging the helicopter the engineering out fit tried to cover it up, without simply saying what had happened. So in nearly 49 years I found dishonesty amongst engineers common and expensive. Their motivation to cover up being paramount.

THE best teacher on the internet imho. Great post.

Had a pt6 grenade on me, in a caravan c208. Audio of it destroying itself in the background on my mayday call on my channel. Good times. It was sulfidation corrosion on the compressor turbine locking the blade in place on the fir tree area of the disc. This stopped the oscillation in place that would normally happen and made the blade bend until it failed and cleared out the engine. The gas generator moved back 3/4’s of an inch in its mount. It actually triggered an AD that affected all engines with the same wheels.

I saw Mike Mike's vid and it was great to get a follow-up from and engine guy. Turbines are wonderful, and everything you stipulated about the cool down makes perfect sense.

Sorry you got hurt. Really glad you’re on the mend, up and around.

Great video and very informative. I don't fly or know anything about power plants but really enjoy learning about them. They way you presented this information gave me a greater understanding of turbine engines. I have a lot of respect for you and Mike on your expertise in your respective fields. Thanks for the video. I really enjoyed it.

Great to see you again JZ, thanks for the explanation. Glad you are doing well.

Thank you JZ, great info as always. Glad you’re on the mend.

Nice to see back and healthy! I follow Mike Patey (Draco is probably my favorite plane EVER!) , but also enjoy your videos, and am looking forward to your insights.

Mike is probably one of the smartest men alive! Great man!

You're talking about Mike being a big deal, well don't put yourself down like that, you're a pretty big deal too! Very few people can do what you do. I'm sure Mike would absolutely love to talk shop with you.

Got it. Clear explanation appreciated and I learned which is something I always enjoy. Thanks from Ottawa.

Hi AgentJayZ, I'm pleased to hear you're recovered after your injury and that it didn't stop you getting to Oshkosh. I've taken a look at Mike Patey's video, all 42 minutes of it. He's obviously very grateful and very relieved that, with plenty of altitude, he was able to glide into an airport, rather than plough a furrow in a cornfield, or do an emergency landing on a highway (see below). However, we don't get too much of the engine itself and he does keep describing the event as an "explosion" when it was clearly an uncontained engine failure. No doubt P&W Canada(?) will be able to home in on the root cause of the failure, but it does appear to have been a power turbine stage 2 blade failure, with possibly one blade causing a 'haircut', hence all the 'shrapnel'. As the aircraft was landed safely at an airport, will the NTSB become involved? We had our own emergency landing locally at around 1800BST on Thursday. A light aircraft on short finals into Gloucestershire Airport (30 minutes north on the M5 from my home) had a suspected engine failure just a few hundred metres out and landed on the Armco in the middle of the A40 Golden Valley bypass, presumably because the road would have been really busy at that hour. Fortunately, the pilot walked away unhurt.

Thanks for the very interesting video. I had never really thought about how that engine was laid out but it looks like a clever design and you did a great job explaining it.

Always a pleasure to hear you about jet engines, keeping everything tight on the vocabulary used to describe various parts and processes.

First time watching your vids, I like your presentation style and the way you present your info. Thanks for the great breakdown of MP’s engine failure.

Love that you rode your motorcycle there. Love it! I have a FJR 1300 and that's another bike that goes thousands of miles with not many issues ever. Thanks for the video.

I’m proud of you for making the journey on the bike. I just sold my 1985 k100 RT with 123000 miles and it still ran great and ever leaked or burned oil. Great bike brand. Replaced it with a R1150rt with 98000miles and I love it. Keep them coming brother. I always learn from your videos.

Thank you for this update on Mike Patey's video.

Really amazing analysis and a great explanation of how the PT-6 works.

Sounds like a much better time than the last time the trip was attempted. Rubber side down check. Quarantine restrictions, wtf? Keep posting. I'll keep watching.

I can't believe I actually found this video entertaining... well done!

AgentJayZ, glad you felt better in time to go to EAA. The heat and rain were a bit brutal this year. This video is another great perspective, one of the reasons why I have been following your channel for years. I hope you enjoy your boxer for hundreds of thousands of Km miles. We sure did ; )

Excellent analysis as always. Thank you, Jay Zulu.

Thanks for the perspective of a guy with experience.

Thank you for your video! Feel like a lecture and I enjoyed every seconds of it.

Glad to hear you're on the mend!

Thanks for another very interesting video Sir. Equal Thanks for your respectful acknowlegment for Mikes skill & professionalism. Both of you have great descriotive information.

Hope you're healing up Jay! good to see your face.

I really enjoy your videos. You know your craft well and you do an excellent job of explaining it to us novices.

Fantastic, thanks! As soon I saw Mike's video I thought, "I'd love to hear AgentJayZ's thoughts on that."

You are simply terrific. A pleasure to witness even without me knowing anything about such fascinating subjects. Cudos Agent Z...

I'm not even subscribed to Mike Patey's channel but have watched some of his videos about the Turbulence. Watched the engine failure emergency video yesterday... and here I am, absolutely fascinated and glued to the screen, watching some other channel's possible failure analysis.

Your videos are some of the best…and enjoyable from this A&P/ pilot👍

Thx Agent Z for an informative and entertaining video. Glad to see you made it to Oshkosh EAA fly in inspite of your injuries. MP was lucky He didn't have a fire during his engine out. I like that you road your GS there. FWIW I ride also currently have RFS 525 Katoom and '14 Duc Mutley PP. I've been riding since childhood and have 3 daugters and 5 G'kids with all riders 6th one is 3yrs old but were working on it. Have ridden in So Pacific in USN and road Mex2Can off road in Y2k+1 and about 15 LA2Barstow 500m DS rides. Enjoy that GS.

Learned a lot in A&P classes, especially about the PT6 A/B. Very nice breakdown and analogy of how they work.

Always like your videos. Another well done explanation. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the great explanation!

I love how turbine engines are both the simplest things and most complex things at the same time.

I feel you may be spot on. I'm retired now but had worked on the PT6A series engines for many years. I started in 1980 for the Pratt & Whitney Canada Service Center Network in Burlington (Vermont) and retired in 2013. I have many fond years working on PT6 engines!

ILMFAO! The "rocks and sticks and little birds" comment is a classic!

OH NO! Glad to hear you are on the mend! THOSE ARE FANTASTIC MOTORCYCLES!

We at Orange Coast Collage got to take apart a PT-6 and an Allison-250 for the A&P program. Both are incredible designs. The Gas flow in the PT-6 is trick.

Way back in the late 70s we had a J52 turbine disk disassemble itself in flight. It effectively cut the A-4s tail into pieces, penetrated the wing fuel tank, and caused the pilot to have to eject on fire and out of control. Fortunately the pilot was not hurt and it happened over ranch land so no damage or injuries on the ground. It was the first crash I was on. It was obvious what happened as soon as we saw the enjine. Everything behind T2 disk was gone. 2 turbines, their guide vanes, seals and other assorted goodies successfully and rapidly disassembled themselves in flight. This was a excellent video and description for people who donot know jets and how they work. Well done.

Dr. Turbine, another amazing video for engine failure analysis! ❤❤❤❤

Point of information from undergraduate level metallurgy: metal doesn’t crystallize from being overheated after annealing. The grains of metal are in a lattice structure that is already a “crystalline” structure. Overheating to 0.3 to 0.5 of melting temp can cause reorganization of the crystalline grain structure usually discontinuous to where one section has a different grain structure than another section of the piece of metal. Viewing the surface of a break reveals what is clearly a crystalline structure so observers may deduce “Aha! It crystallized causing it to break.”. In a sense, but it was always crystalline.

Very interesting, thank you for posting

It's luxury to have a teacher that know that exact engine Mike Patey use that well giving a great explanation that even I who have absolutely zero experience with jet/turbine engines could follow, and I'm confident you'll keep your cap. I'd love to watch a collaborative video with @AgentJayZ and @MikePatey where you discuss, among other things, the engine failure Mike had. I am confident it will go viral in the aviation community on RU-vid.

Nice video explaining what might have happened with Mike's Pt6 engine (I saw his video as well). It will be interresting to see the result of the investigation of the Pt6.

Great analysis. I think you are spot on. It will be interesting to see the inspection report. Thanks for the great video. B58 guy.

Another fascinating video. My plane has the Czech PT6ski turboprop, aka, the Walter 601. Very similar design as the PT6. In addition to the borescope inspection every 100hrs we also have a combustion chamber rivet check done. Like you mentioned, something coming loose in the combustion chamber can cause a domino effect in the turbines.

Mike also I believe stated that that engine was not the original engine because he removed the original and sent it to P&W because of a HOT START and the engine that (BLEW UP) was from P&W and had a total of 5 hours in Turbulence but very High time.

Great to hear your take on the engine failure of Mr. Patey, very educational thx so much this!

Great job on explaining the reverse flow engine like the PT & the Walter! Awesome Job!

Awesome explanation!! Thanks.

Good explanation of the working engine

Great breakdown! Thank you as always!

Great analytics of a serious subject. Anxious to hear what went catastrophically wrong with Mikes PT-6. And I agree completely with your sense of the build quality and research that went into the assembly of parts and pieces that became the world’s fastest turboprop. It’s amazing, as is the pilot. Textbook procedures culminating in a well thought out process of safely landing and zero injuries ( probably slightly elevated heart rate, but no data on that one)😂. Again, great video, and I know that he would gladly send you a cap!

Very clear and concise explanation - Great work

Excellent! I watch Mike as well.

Awesme class room session Jay, Hi from NZ

Hey good to see you back! Great open source forensic hypothesis, I did think on Mike's video that a breaking blade doesn't necessarily have to give any warnings, but idk any details about this particular engine.

It's absolutely critical that you allow the engine to cool down before you shut it down...just like the manufacturer calls for. The PT-6 engines are extremely reliable.

It will be interesting to see if that indeed was the cause. The PT-6 is arguably the most reliable engines ever produced, and for it to happen to Mike is even more statistically unlikely. Am thankful he was ok.

It was a lot of fun. I saw Mike looking around the amateur kit sellers on Saturday I believe. He has incredible energy and ability.

Excellent teacher. 👍

I’ve been watching you for a number of years now. With that said, I no more watched Mikes video thirty minutes before running across yours. Definitely got my attention with the subject matter. Yeah he kinda exploded the fan disk or maybe two. Peppered his airframe all over with nice coin sized holes. It’s good he was able to make it to a nearby airport and put her down safely. The one big take away I got from the event is he stressed taking safety seriously and practicing emergency procedures over and over so your well versed in piloting your way down.

Enjoyed this. Thanks!

I'm from Houston, Texas and 38C(100F) is hot for anybody and everybody, especially with high humidity. Houston is the most air conditioned city in the world for a reason. Anyways, it's great to hear your thoughts on Mike's issue. I always enjoy your videos! Keep 'em comin'.

Thank you, good explanation

Great video as always.

1:44 That was my favorite part of the video. Cheers my CanAm counterpart from way too sunny and miserably hot South Florida. I know Sun-N-Fun is a TRIP for you, but if you do make it to Lakeland I will definitely drive over. Till then my Friend.

Thank you ... awesome explanation

Nicely explained 👍👍👍👍

Thanks for the explanation Be Safe

Most interesting, thank you.

I was hoping you'd chime in on Mike's PT6, your expertise is appreciated. Hopefully @MikePatey sees it!

Been a while since I've chimed in! I do watch Mike and was hopeful you would respond Jay. I pretty much had the same conclusions. A little ironic but last month I saw a JT8D on an MD-88 let go right before my eyes. A loud bang, smoke, and a cloud of very expensive metal ejecting from the exhaust duct. We found out it lost a nozzle segment via borescope investigation. Combustors and compressor were fine. It was violent enough that the cases swelled and it blew a number of nozzle segments out into the turbines and wiped it out. I have a few souvenirs from that. Luckily it was a ground run. No fire, no injuries. Quite a thing to see. Our borescope is pretty tricked out. It can take dimensions and 3D model images. Full 360 articulating head, all the good tricks!

Brilliant design and explanation!

Very interesting. Thanks 👍

i agree with you , itt l be interesting when Mikes video comes out . More videos when you can please !

I was up at Oshkosh on Friday and Saturday. Got to see the MiG-23 on static display, and watched it taxi out for take-off... and then taxi back. 😞 Saw the restored P-47 fly on Saturday, and it was gorgeous! I took pics, but there are some great youtube channels with excellent videos. I recommend AirShowStuff videos and Airailimages. The Dronescapes channel has some of the Warbirds in Review lectures/talks too, which is usually excellent.

Excellent video Agent Jay Z! Glad you made airventure 23’ wish I crossed paths with ya I was tenting with my wife in Paul’s woods campground. Very good man love your new bike. ✌️✌️

Friggin great tutorial

Great stuff!

Excellent explanation as to root causes of failure Agent JayZ.... I hope Mike Patey watches your video explanation of failure causes..... I am betting someone "claimed" the engine got a complete visual inspection that wasn't done properly, or, the history of the engine, being used was lost, and a couple of hot starts by the previous owner/ pilot did the damage.

Worked on CH-135 Twin Hueys with 408 Tac Hel Squadron back in the day. P&W Canada PT6 twin pack in those venerable choppers. If not mistaken its replacement the CH-146 Griffon that replaced it uses a later version of the PT6 twin pack. Robust, proven power plants. Don't hear about many failures so this is very interesting.

I actually caught a break and at least got to watch the live stream of the flights this year. We'd just gotten back from a southwestern museum tour of old warbirds, with our final stop in San Marcos to see a still-flying C47 (not a jet, but Very cool!) Speaking of iron butts, I just saw the story of the german fellow who cycled (like pedal powered) from New York to Oshkosh! Holy cow, that's a feat at any age, but this guy easily had 15 years on me! Glutton for Punishment mode engaged!