Everyone needs a friend like Kobe! Knows that Meteos accomplished a personal goal but was too humble/didn't think it was big enough to talk about and brings it up for him.
The soft inting ban thing won't be easy. Hard inters dont get banned half the time. Quasi afkers who just afk farm or even just walk in and out of fountain dont get banned. It will be real hard to detect.
Agreed. It could be hard to tell for sure even with manual review whether a player is soft inting, or disagreeing with their team about the best strategy but still trying to win, or just having a bad game (especially at lower ranks). I think it would be completely impossible to do automatically.
While true, and how far they take it will be interesting, for now they've clarified they're looking at things like following the jungler and stealing camps. Things that haven't historically been automatically trackable and aren't hard inting, and by that definition fall under soft inting...for now. So I'm ok with the current new things they're adding to the automated system, but wary if it goes too far.
soft inting has been going on for YEARS. and it’s sad that we finally getting a discussion about it when the player base in NA is the lowest it’s ever been. reason why i quit the game is 9/10 games someone gets petty to the point where they will stop trying to win the game because they’re upset at their own teammate for bullshit
Yeah, and the worst part is it often still ruins the game even when the problematic person is on the other team. I quit league when I was about to queue and I literally thought “I’m probably not gonna enjoy this at all, and I’ll feel empty after”. Could also be that the game in general outstayed its welcome for me, but I think the constant tantrums and soft inting didn’t help.
@@MrAlihassanein think the older i got the less time i got to play and the less games i got and that just meant that even the few games i got, every game was filled with inters on either side and there’s just no escape
ive come across more toxicity in WoW Mythic+ Dungeons than I have in League. I am also in Iron/bronze so i probably just havent seen a whole lot of inting since we are all bad lol
only at 16:00 in the video so idk if they mention this, maybe a good punishment for people "soft inting" could be to ban them from playing ranked? it could be like how CS does it where it scales from 24 hours, 3 days, a week, etc.? its just hard to really classify what "soft inting" is when people could genuinely be clueless about the game or just misplay.
What if instead of banning people, each time a player soft ints they get points added to a hidden weight and the higher that weight is the more likely you are to get placed with people who also have a high weight. Slowly they'll be moved out of games with people who try and are respectful, but they can still play the game the way the want, but only with people who want to play the same toxic way. And if they have an epiphany and start to play better perhaps their number could go down and they could rejoin polite society.
If they do it at a hardware level, it will decrease the soft inters by a drastic margin. Most soft inters aren't smart enough to solve it or won't want to bother solving it. Just like when they cracked down on scripting. It decreased scripting significantly. Nothing is 100%, but any decrease at all is better than doing nothing
People soft inting is what made me quit playing. Most of the time they also wouldn't surrender so you were stuck until the enemy finally decided to end the misery for you
That's true sometimes, but I actually think it goes the other way more often. A lot of my experience with "soft inting" is by players who want to surrender, but when their teammates disagree they stop trying to win the game (and ironically, THEY complain about being held hostage by their teammates). And often these are even in games where the enemy team has only a small advantage, not completely hopeless unwinnable ones.
@@joshuachartrand268 Id say at least 50% of my games end in an ff, whether it's mine or the enemy team. My perspective is definitely skewed because I really only play norms with friends these days, so there's no LP on the line. I'm sure that makes ff more likely.
@@rynejones8513that would be terrible because there have been many games where a team looks well behind but then manages to make a pick and take an objective once or twice and it completely swings the game back the other way
The comments section of any league video is wild. As a 4 year veteran of the game now, the only reason i dont tell people to play the game is because of the insane toxicitiy in the game. Ive been told to off myself, ive been threatened with violence, ive been false reported, ive been hostaged, ive seen it all. But then the community is always like "the games dying because the metas bad and my teamates suck!"
Nah I think everyone knows it is toxic and that's a problem. I tell my friends to play but just don't play solo. If you're in it with a friend you can make soft inter games fun if you have the right mindset and don't take everything so seriously
I love playing ADC champs but I refuse to play a 2v2 lane it’s just too much for my teeny tiny brain and I cannot trust rando supports to be on the same page as me ever
Support perspective here. If I am buying space, winning trades, and I identify that you can’t cs in an efficient manner with a heavy advantage. I will straight up leave you in an attempt to bring my CC and vision control to a player that gives us a higher chance of winning.
@@1638whatsuphello adc main here. When my support dies level 1 to a blitzcrank hook, comes back to lane, dies level 1 to a blitzcrank hook. Comes back and dies level 2 to a blitzcrank hook while I'm level 3/level 4 and leaves, I'm not sure what space they bought me.
The goal of Leauge is to get farm, get kills, get vision or get objectives. A player can easily soft int by only participating in one of these tasks in a game, because they then aren't trying to bring their full value to their team and therefore make losing far more likely. But, since they are still doing *something* they don't get banned.
There’s a player I consistently run in to (I’m extremely low elo) and he always types “only I decide who wins this game” and will either 1v9 or soft int it’s so weird to see happen because he actually does it EVERY TIME I think riot needs to limit how much one singular player can negatively impact the game? Dunno if that’s possible
Love that Azeal made sure to make the point of how much it sucks to go through queue time, draft, and game just to have almost an hour wasted. So frustrating. As an attorney working crazy hours and living with a partner, sometimes all I have time for is 1 game. It fucking SUCKS when that’s ruined by some a-hole soft inter. And honestly, even on those rare days where I can spend a handful of hours playing, it is still a huge shot to the gut when even just one of those hours is wasted by these people. Get em out!
i agree with azael more than kobe about the aggressiveness of punishments. if you incrementally increase punishment people adapt. if you go hard people stop BECAUSE it’s so serious.
Love how they reiterate the fact that if you’re normal, you have nothing to worry about. I’ve played over a decade and I get mad, I flame, I troll, but I’ve never gotten banned or chat restricted. It takes a lot to get you there and if you’re genuinely worried then maybe you are soft inting more than you think
Can't wait to continue getting banned by 5k dmg adcs, 3 kp junglers, and first time champ mids because I'm trying to create a competitive game against an enemy team with a team that is not competitive and die a lot because of it
15:20 Azael describing the quintessential league experience. I don't get that many hard inters either. But i get soft inter baby raging run it into opponent fight fight fight kids every single game. Its absurd and ridiculous how common it is and, as Azael stated, it makes you NOT want to play the game.
Banger episode! 😍 the soft inting and dodgers were the reason that made me leave the game a few months ago, i just play my 5 placement keep gold+, get skin. leave the game again, or only play aram, champ select its a torture. The last second dodge, omg, hate those guys! 😂😂
Every time meteos talks about soft inting. I think about meteos brand game the 0-25 what a game. I ran it down once and I only got to 18 before the game ended.
I agree about soft inting. It's complicated and a lot of factors go into trying to objectively identify it to hand out hardware bans. I think a good baseline is to factor in the person's historical punishments and reports they've received.
I wonder if in regards to the red/blue side abuse for lp gain....maybe they need to make the time penalty for dodging longer with a larger exponential growth for successive dodges per day instead of just dodges in a row. They would have to take into account people taking troll picks/summoner spells to try and force others to dodge but that could be taken into consideration with the soft inting problem.
Kobe's take on soft inting is 100% spot on. The way in which they are able to "detect" soft inting in game and roll out punishments is going to be massively important. How the hell are you going to ban someone for soft inting, let's say in iron and bronze elo, when 99% of games play out in a constant state of non-optimal play due to players just simply not being that good? I can foresee this system rolling out bans for a lot of these casual/normal players it's seeking to protect.
I said this before and I think its worth restating. Riot needs to provide people with immediately feedback when it detends soft inting. It should always start with a warning and a suggestion to take a break or some other reasonable alternative. Most people who are soft inting are just TILTED and need to know they've been picked up by the system to either remind them that they cant just keep running it back or to at least just take a break so they can calm down from the tilt. So few players are hard committed to inting. They do it because in that moment they cant handle the overwhelming negative emotion and the only option they see is to play another game after to attempt to reclaim the sanity they lost, which is always a mistake for them, and it has the negative side effect of hurting the four people they have to play with next game.
Keep submitting these ideas to their open threads man, this is an ideal solution. Warnings before bans on a system like this. Imo this system is going to be best to hardware ban people that are smurfing AND running it down. People that are instantly swapping accounts after a chat restriction or a timeout.
I also mute all chat and it's the best to combat toxic players. Once people know they can't get under you skin bc you have mute chat, then it's obvious to see who's actually inting. The standing in the same area... I agree with KOBE 100%
Soft inting happens because it’s easier to feel agency throwing the game than playing to win… The prevalence of the behavior is a symptom of a core gameplay design issue. Spending time trying to identify and ban the behavior is a “band aid fix” and will only result in a different mini-game to feel agency in the game.
I would only be ok with shrinking the selection time if we had more time post comp chosen to update runes. A person being last pick when you don't know what your opposing laner is playing can be very disadvantageous if you're trying to update a rune page you want. There's just a lot of variance to champ select that I think makes the current time it takes a necessary evil. League is a complex game so having the time is to the benefit. But some of my champs have up to four rune pages that work with them IE Jayce can run, First strike, phase rush, conqueror or electrocute if you're feeling spicy. And I do realize there are some champs that can actually run the same setup every game no matter what.
Soft inting is a symptom of the game being shit. Riot's problem is that they continually try to fix the symptoms with bandaid on top of bandaid instead of dealing with the underlying illness.
Thank you The Dive for focusing on soft inting!!! This is such a big problem that happens *all* the time on N.A. server, about 50%+/- of ranked games it feels like. (bronze/silver in my experience) This generally, but not always, involves someone who gives up at 5 - 10 min and then absolutely ruins the game for everyone. They may even Blame Game others for the loss. People who do this with some level of consistency, shouldn't be allowed to play ranked in my opinion. Maybe a month ban from ranked is needed.
Double post!!! Riot needs to ban people who show a statistically significant number of games that are soft inted over a certain number of games. So like out of 20 games, 5 or more are soft inted could be a sign. In determining what soft inting is, Riot should not only look at negatives such as a player with a large number of deaths. If a player is actively trying to moves for their team (meaning, gold positive plays) despite otherwise "bad performance", then they should be ok. Gold positive plays can include split pushing even though your team dies on the other side of the map. On the other hand, farming jg at minute 20-30 instead of taking towers or team fighting could be a sign of soft inting. As the hosts said, automating this system would be tricky though, I can imagine.
In law there's a famous saying which I'll adapt. "Better one hundred soft-inters go free, than a one innocent man be banned." It's reasonable to doubt the detection can be fully and flawlessly automated. Why not combine it with players reporting them. If a player is reported by people who have seen them play and read their chat, then apply the algorithm. Also, you guys are just thinking of Diamond, Masters and Challengers, but players in the lower ranks could look like they're soft inting but it could be because they don't know what they're doing.
League needs to have something like csgo had with the overwatch system. Let the community police themselves. Make it so that you gotta be gold-plat and atleast level 100 or something and a jury of 10 people get sent a 10min clip of a game where a bunch of reports come in and they decide the fate.
Here is my solution to soft inting: Stop playing the game and all the soft inters will only be able to play with each other and eventually the game will die and people won't be depressed. On the real though, I think an amazing solution would be you can block a summoner and never have to play with them again. Soft Inters would just sit in queue forever and quit game or reform.
4 out of 21 games were soft inters that I remember from the last 2 weeks. Probably more of these were soft inting, but I didn't notice as much because it didn't affect my lane, etc.
There is another solution to the problem that it's a bad experience to play with a soft inter on your team. Make it so that LP losses are adjusted for performance. This won't really stop the soft inting, but it will mitigate the feeling when you're playing very well (for your elo) and someone else makes the game unplayable. It will improve the game experience around soft inting without having to enter the fraught territory of hardware bans.
@@botbadger I recall some earlier episodes him asserting that coaches are not helpful and it’s all about putting up teams with good vibes. That’s just the first that comes to mind, I feel like I could come up with a plethora of hot takes from his history on the dive that I disagree with. This is not to disparage him at all for the record, there was a point where I was subscribed to his twitch channel for 2 years straight. His hot takes are fun and bring lively discussion.
@@ethangilworth7891 He didn't say coaches weren't helpful, he said most of the NA coaches aren't helpful because they don't know the game very well and they power trip like crazy.
instant don't like the guy that wants to hardware ban soft inters. like its literally league of legends. he's acting like he is perfect. he's the first to be hardware banned tf. i will say this for the people in the back YOU CAN NOT FIX SOFT INTING. add voice coms, deal with it, or stop playing the game. it cannot be manually reviewed either cuz people may have different ideas of how to win league. but the minute you start making it feel like a prison then no one wants to play. HOW ABOUT WE MAKE THE GAME NOT FEEL AWFUL TO PLAY WIHEN IT HAS POTENTIAL.
Man i'd love a non League podcast from you guys, my favorite part is always the intro where you guys are talking about what you're been up to and games you're playing
i think in order to fix soft inting they need to innact some type of system where the soft inter either is automated or through a vote like a surrender is subject to either minus lp gains or positive lp losses. Ive had many times where a player tried their hardest to int the game and make it unwinnable but myself snd my team win the game, that soft inter gets lp for that, then that helps them climb and stay in higher ranks, if you go 3/15 and your team wins the other players should get your lp divided up and you should get none, or if you lose vice versa.
FIX THE HONOR SYSTEM. have upvotes for enemies and have the system influence rating. also have real rewards. imagine if everyone in the game is like, this guy is obv inting/soft inting and then they get rating punished and lose rewards ect.
Has a toplaner im scared of the ‘’soft inting’’ change because if you get dove on stacked wave, you are out of the game and the enemy team can choose to dive you repeatedly and then your 0/10 and the whole team is flaming
I think there should be a minimum rank for the 'soft-inting' bans. As much as I agree that this is still a thing in my Plat game, half the time I feel like people are just dumb and don't know what the 'optimal' play is lol.
Instead of banning or punishing, try grouping these people together in future games. More reports lead to grouping the soft inting players together, all trolls with other trolls, etc.
Doubt Azael will see this, but I play a lot of survivors/bullet heaven games, and outside vampire survivors I played the most Soulstone Survivors. Compared to others in the genre, AoE size is totally uncappped leading to that screen clutter; make sure you turn effect transparency to like 30% and it makes it a LOT easier to see stuff. Especially if youre a summon build because those chaos golems make everything impossible to see.
regarding blue side red side i wonder would it be better to be able to enable an option to have a wild rift mode where the red side can just be flipped to act like blue side
No one wants to say this either but another reason why soft inting is so prevalent is because we've created a children's playground out of an online competitive multiplayer game so that no one gets hurt with the overly excessive chat filter What I'm saying is, people's inability to tell others to go fuck themselves due to fear of getting chat restricted and banned has ultimately lead to toxic people figuring out ways to ruin your game in other ways I'd rather give someone the ability to went their frustration on me in chat, even if they're completely wrong, but them continuing to play the game than fucking around...we all know the league playerbase is older and the average player is like 20-something, are we really that immature that we can't just mute the person typing garbage?
Hardware bans is an absolutely not from me. While I personally live alone and don't share my computer, I grew up sharing a computer. Hardware banning a PC for one account's offenses could easily screw over anyone else who also uses that computer. You also get into issues with public computers. When I was younger and didn't have a great PC, I would go to a place called the "Gamer's Lair" in my town, 5 bucks for four hours of gaming. If you ban one of those PCs you're screwing over an entire business.
