Great, honest review. I've had my large for a little under a year now in CA, 6'2", 190-200 lbs depending on how much beer I drink. I would say at 190, I wouldn't go medium. It might be more fun on local runs I know but it would definitely be a sporty ride for me. The large manages to be a blast on familiar sections but isn't too much to handle when I am pushing it. I can load the large with overnight gear and feel comfortable. Stern definitely lets you know its there, especially when loaded. I haven't had an issue with the hard chines on the CA granite, but I know some friends in OR who have had them shaved off a bit by the basalt. Regardless, if you are on healthy volume (like you said) it should perform well on creeky stuff. Confidence inspiring boat as far as the large goes at 190-200. Fast, predictable, engaging, stable, and honestly just damn good looking.
I absolutely agree with everything you've said. It's my second season and I've been experimenting with boats. I started with an rpm, then got a remix 69 for bigger water and to be more forgiving, it did ok but I felt like it was still a true beginner boat, and it was a bitch to roll. Just took a scorch x out for the first time and holy hell I'm in love, def not a beginner boat and everything I was looking for.
@@AlexBarham Thanks Alex I'm 190 I bought a medium and haven't tried it yet. Hope I'm ok with the size. It's keeping me away from the cookies and chips. Lol
I’m around 180lb should I get a medium? Or what creek boat would be a good alternative? I’m an intermediate paddler and have only really used half slices (Ripper 2) I generally paddle the Yough, Gauley and I’m looking to get on the Green and Great Falls (VA) this summer.
Just went to the WWTC in Charlotte, they are taking over the place, there is no perfect boat, but there are many happy kayakers in them, says alot. They all said you have to be aggressive paddler in it.
@@4JudgeSmails I'm 6' and about 175lbs. In the large scorch defense, my only paddling it was running some laps on Nantahala falls. But at the moment I sat in the large on the water it felt too big. The medium felt great for me though.
I get the feeling you kinda like this boat! Can't wait to try one out. I think I'll have the 'which size' dilemma so hopefully can try the Medium and the Large. Thanks for the review.
Nice review Alex 👍 some really good info and footage! I managed to sit in a large yesterday and boy it’s pretty spacious and I’m 84kg and 5ft 10, the medium seems spot on size wise but will set the trim like you advised when I can get my hands on one! I might even decide to shed a few pounds of weight... sporty me = sporty boat 😂
Great review like always I am looking for the Scorch. The problem is that as per manufacturer specs with my 186lbs I am at the very upper end of the M and very low end of the L. Looking at the volume I think the M has enough. I am an intermediate paddler of class 3-4+ doing mostly low volume runs and a lot of boulder rivers. But I also want to unlook the speed of the boat. I do not want to overload it. Which size would you recommend.Thanks
Low volume and boulder bouncing is much more of a Machno playground. Are you sure you wouldn't want a medium Machno? Between the M and L I would put you in the M Scorch. You will have a lot of trouble pulling a L around in tight spots and low volume.
I tried the x recently, and I feel like it is everything you just said, but turned up. Insanely fast, but if you don't drive it and loose it to the boils, it isn't easy to recover
That would make a lot of sense if you try to map out what would be between a Scorch and a 12r which is what I think they were trying to tell us to imagine.
So did you like it? 😉 I agree w almost all of this, except I was surprised to hear you talk so much ab it’s speed. I’ve paddled a medium twice now. First time (borrowed boat) felt fine, but when I just had mine out it actually felt sluggish, and I’m at bottom of medium weight range. Like you said, it likes to be driven and is most in control at speed, which I think is to be expected w those rails. Problem for me was getting up to speed. Just my initial impression. I need more seat time for sure, but I’ve gotten similar feedback from others who just paddled their Scorches for first time too (all mediums).
Could be more of a large thing? I think just the way that this gets through features makes up a lot of time in rapids. Usually I am pulling far away from whoever is behind me and about to run over anyone in front of me in this boat
@@AlexBarham yeah, maybe. I’m also wondering if it just shines in harder/steeper conditions. Someone who’s been paddling his for a while said he thinks it performs better in faster currents, and that bc it’s a little stern heavy it can drag some when first getting up to speed from going slow, but once up to planing speed it carries that speed well. I think it was that initial getting up to speed thing I was noticing, which makes even more sense given that I’m smaller and the medium is a lot of boat for me to get moving (50 lbs).
Hey Alex, I'm at 160ish right now would you put me in a medium scorch? I wish I was a little lighter, but that's not running in covid for ya. Love the reviews!
Hello Alex Please say always something about sizing during your reviews. For me as an intermediate skilled, 182lbs paddler, for many boats I am always between the M and L. So I do not know what to choose ? Of course it also depends on what for rivers and runs but maybe you can fit all parameters a little bit together.
I’m having the weight issue you mention. 13st (180lb), I’m trying both M and L. Only ever paddled half slice or slalom so the L when I tried on flat water felt “huge”. Trying both on WW next Sunday
Thanks a ton for the review....been looking forward to it. As a bigger guy in the 265-275 weight range, I'm a little worried I'll be too heavy for even the Large (your input on that would be great). Part of me wants to try the X too, but I'm worried about that as well since they say it was based off of the medium and is more intended for that weight range of paddlers. I'm almost feeling like the Dagger Code (review upcoming?) might be a better fit even though I like the design of the Scorch better. Not gonna lie...wish there was an XL Scorch (either a large version of the X... or an extra large version of the standard Scorch). Not holding out hopes for that though. I think its kind of unfortunate that "medium" sized people get all the focus and smaller and larger people don't get more love.
I would just skip over the X. As you said it is not going to be your boat. I think that the Scorch L will still be one of your best options. It paddles bigger than the Machno L, which is a good sign. Absolutely agree that it would have been a really smart move to make a 4 size run, with a true L and a true XL
As for the Code, I have been in contact with Dagger, but no demo has appeared. If you want a review I would send them an email and let them know it is important to your purchasing decision.
Translation: the water will grab the "edge" and flip the boat. It seems to be a hybrid of a creek boat and half slice. Less rocker would make it even better. River runners don't need all that rocker. Drops need the rocker. So do big holes. That is just my 2 cents.
It really has nothing to do with the rocker. For better or worse, the extreme rocker in a lot of these recent Pyranha boats seems to mostly be trying to satisfy the demands of our fellow paddlers. What is happening is that they are not providing any soft transitions to the ends of the boat so the sharp chines lock in and will not let go every time unless you are very light in the boat.
Hmmm, interesting. I'll have to demo one. Per my rocker comment - I went from a Mamba to a Zen3 and loved the less rocker. I could go straight when I wanted to. @@AlexBarham
Hi Alex... I have the Scorch L weighing 180 lbs, and I am in the lower weight range. I feel that the boat is really easy to row, and I can easily go over all the obstacles in the river and that makes the river somewhat boring, so I will leave the scorch for class 4 large waters up and for class rivers 3+ I will row the Ozone M, as it is more unstable it will help me improve my technique and allow me to play a little more. Do you think I should change my L scorch for an M one? Or is the Scorch size L better for my weight in bigger and more technical waters?
Hey Abner! I would probably put you in the medium. That will definitely make you work a little harder! I would tell you to try and demo a medium. You'll know best. I would guess that the medium will be more your size though.
I'm 6ft 4, 235lb and currently paddling a large Machno, which I find a bit cumbersome at times. I'd be very interested to see how the large Scorch compares. I did demo a Scorch but it was on the Lee Valley Legacy course ( grade 2?) so I couldn't really notice too much difference. Hoping to demo again on the Olympic course (grade 4?) soon though.
I paddle a large Machno too. I did a couple of laps on CIWW in my mates large scorch. I was shocked how fast and manoeuvrable it was. I was very happy in the Machno up until then but no I’m no so sure!
Hey Steve! So I went back and took a lap in the Machno L to do a side to side comparison with the Scorch L. I would say that the Scorch L is probably going to be faster, and much easier to throw around, but we have a significant weight difference. I definitely felt that the Scorch had more pickup and was cutting current more than the Machno.
The scorch is a gun on the Olympic. Its perfect for that environment if you don't need any play potential. The only issue I had with it (I tried the X) is that if you miss a boof on one of those big chains of moves, it was harder to recover than in other boats I've tried. So you really have to plan your move and strokes, but with time using that boat I'm sure you would get used to that
@@AlexBarham fair enough, but hopefully most of what I sad translates fairly well to the other sizes. I do need to try the m so I can compare them myself. Probably still won't buy one tho, pretty happy with my exo rexy atm
Im trying to decide between a M scorch and a waka goat (not billy) as an all round river runner that surfs well. I’m 150 lb, paddle G3-4 mainly, & due to kids and work don’t get consistent paddling time, so it needs to look after me a bit off the couch. I have paddled a billy goat a fair bit, and like a lot about it, but not the grabbiness in the stern (others have found the same). I also find it doesn’t surf that well with the stern shape Any thoughts?
A tail-tap is when you boof your boat and then the corner of the stern impacts what you were boofing over. This can cause you to be launched forward and have your bow knocked down
Love the revies as always. I am in the same boat as so many ;) I am right at the 200 lb mark and something doesn't quite right. My dad has a large and he is a little bit heavier than me and he loves it. Any tips for outfitting the large to help out with sizing in many matters?
Yeah, it is a bit of a bummer, but you can build your strength to where you can still whip it around. That is my basic strategy. Here's my outfitting guide: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LWnXTtfVPVM.html
So I get this isn't a new burn, however I paddled a Burn 2 for years, so I'm familiar with it. So is the scorch going have harder edges? Will the way the scorch paddles feel somewhat similar, or is it a completely different feel? Also, have you had a chance to try the X yet. I'm worried it may be two fast for me, but I can get one, everything else is unavailable.
The scorch is going to have a lot more speed and want to always be paddled on the rails with an aggressive mindset. For something closer in personality to the burn without that need to be driving the boat so hard look towards a Machno
@@AlexBarham Thanks for the reply. I got to demo a large scorch, large code and scorch x this past weekend. I loved the large scorch, super precise and easy to hit a line in, I really liked the code, I felt it took a little more work to hit a line in or carve around in, but super forgiving. The X I didn't care for as much, I could feel the extra length and for me it took more work to paddle than the large scorch (and I'm 195-200 so on the light end of the large scorch weight range). Anyway, looking forward to your Scorch V Code video.
Zen3 is probably the most stable, but it is a tank. You will want a second boat, as I do. But staying upright is a good thing when you are near your limit of turbulent water. I paddle a lot in a club, and a newbie got a Code, and he flipped a bunch when he first got it, but he progressed really fast and he rarely flips anymore.
Wish I had one close to sit in. At my weight I'm totally in the medium but am curious how it would paddle loaded for an overnighter. Dave told me to get an X but I'm afraid to have that as my one boat quiver. Might need to get a medium and keep my Shiva for overnighters.
@@AlexBarham My new COVID and stressful busy season at work weight puts me down to 155 lbs. Not sure what I am with all my kayaking gear though. Still think I'm right in the Medium even with overnight gear in the boat.
Thank you for all the great reviews and info!!! Currently paddling a Mamba 8.6 and last season bought a Rewind mostly for the fun river running feel and surfing ability. How does the Scorch do as a river runner, specifically surfing? Both little waves and bigger and steeper waves?
@@AlexBarham might be a stretch to answer this but here is another question. Could you see the Scorch replacing both a Mamba and a Rewind to be the coveted one boat that does it all??? Most of my boating is class 3 pushing into class 4. Most of the class 3/4 runs in my area are pool drops that take rain to run and they aren't dam controlled. I am not really interested in low volume steep creeking nor do I see myself getting there anytime soon if at all. The Rewind tail is too much in play for my style. I am not really interested in tail squirts or play boating. In hindsight I should have bought something like an axiom that you have to try to engage the tail unlike the Rewind.
The Code is going to be much easier to learn in. The Scorch will be trying to take off without you more aggressively than the Code, which is much easier to manage for a beginner. The other beginner boat I really like is the Toro.
Sounds awesome! Do you think that someone who enjoys getting regular feedback on technique in a Ripper would be of the right mindset for tightening things up in a Scorch? I'm a small, intermediate paddler looking for a river runner-biased creek boat, waiting for the small to come out. If this is an advanced boat for advanced paddlers, am I just waiting to get my hopes dashed, or would it also be a good boat to learn with?
No, not really. I would expect to hear things in passing, but I don't make a habit of taking deep dives on head to head comparisons. The inevitable blow back isn't worth it to me.
@@AlexBarham No worries and thanks for replying. I like your vids and reviews, I'll keep watching. Any comparison would be your own opinion, but I understand how that can often be taken wrong and come back on you
@@AlexBarham I paddle on the Yough, Savage, Casselman - PA WV MD. I have a Dagger Mamba 8.1. I love my Mamba but it's reaching the end of it's life span.
@@anthonymacerollo9916 If you're still stoked on the Mamba, but want something more aggressive that would be the Code. If you want to adjust your style towards the more modern speed and cutting through pushy water that would play to the strengths of the Scorch
Yeah well due to plastic issues, I will not be buying another Pyranha soon. This is a tragedy, since only Wavesport can challenge Pyranha for designs. Dagger can sometimes threaten, but not totally compete. No one else except a couple of obscure, low volume Euro boats can compete.
Machno or Scorch? Fairly new to the sport, but usually progress quickly. Started with a Z about a month ago. Then got a Varun, traded the Z for a paddle and am making the Varun my own. I live, and will mainly be kayaking the S. Central PA area. Thanks for your input. Marshall.
Hey Marshall! I made this because I assumed I would get this a lot over the next few years: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sOdT-VyUUUE.html
Check out Alex's " initial thoughts" video on this boat. I think he touches on this. If you running low volume steep creeks, you're best to look at the Machno, where as the Scorch does better with more volume. However, if you are new to the sport, the Machno will be more forgiving in general. That said, the reviews of the Code are suggesting it will be the best middle-of-the-road boat (that's what Dagger does) in this category if you are looking to split the difference on sporty/forgiving.
He finds it easier if you are able to reach out to the manufacturer to help him have access to the boat. Just since its hard to get some of them and for him to get enough time to make a review. Would love to see one also but best to reach out to waka directly :)
The tutea is a small boat, and Alex normally reviews medium and large boats, so I doubt his review would be much help. You might wanna ask someone like matt wallin instead, who "specialises" in smaller boats
Mystery - I would be happy to do a hybrid project for a smaller paddler with my girlfriend who is 135lbs. As said please give Waka an email and ask them. Otherwise I am not likely to come across one.
Thanks James - like I said to Mystery, we are working on how to critically test and review smaller boats in house. Hopefully we will start putting those out soon.
