@@xxxm981 easier said than done, sometimes the ability to make something is overshadowed by just spending a few dollars. Tried making a .22 lr ar bolt, spent probably 30 hours on it, should have just bought one. I could make reamers I can buy, but it's so much faster and easier to just buy it and not increase the risk of scrapping an expensive part with a cheap tool. Jmho, ymmv.
"This all started out with picking up a $15 set of dies at a gun show and it snowballed from there. " Very relatable, Steve! Sounds like most of my gun projects.
This is why I love Brownells; you guys seem honest about getting good information out there, even if it means telling us to go buy from a store that isn't yours if it means we'll find what we need. As a consumer and hobbyist, this is such a breath of fresh air in today's world. Thank you! Keep doing what you're doing!
Yes and odds are they end up selling the product too. they know good and well that if the industry is robust and people are doing a lot of DIY stuff on their guns they're going to want gunsmithing tools and brownelks is the place to get that.
Steve... is like the dad I wished I had. A little stoic at times which I am as well, succinct, consistent, methodical, and calibrated - obviously a master gunsmith, but seems like a no nonsense, save me the fluff, kind of guy. Tip of the hat to you, sir.
I been doing that for years I turn 3006 into all kinds of stuff even 8 mm Mauser and 45-60 out of 45-70 brass. My dad showed me how back in the early 60's when he had a British Bull Dog and a few other obsoleted cartridges like the Webley 455
@Doom Maybe, but I find it odd that Starline went and did .32 French, but they don't make any .30-40 Krag brass. Like, which is more likely to sell? Obviously .30-40
John Q. Public Starline, never cheap, and never inexpensive. But quality costs money, and you’re never likely to need more then a few hundred pieces of brass for your antique gun so $300 should sort you out no matter what.
Thank you to both you two fellows and Brownells for this video! Also interesting to see how close the firearms community among presenters and retailers is.
I get goosebumps thinking about delving deeper into hand loading! I only just started reloading 12ga shot shells. I'd love to start reloading .380 Auto, .40S&W, 5.56x45mm NATO, and .30-06 Springfield. I'm saving up for a Dillon 550c progressive reloading press. I really only have room for one press as I live in an apartment, so I figure I should get a press that can do just about anything with the right dies, and churn out rounds at a very high rate, as I want to shoot A LOT (and can, because the range I go to has a range for everything, even 1KYD shooting, and is only $50/year to use the range). I figured 12ga is the cheapest and most forgiving to learn hand loading due to how common and low pressure 12ga is. It's been amazing, and I almost have my 1 oz of 7 1/2 shot target loads tweaked to where I want. I think it may still have a couple grains too much powder, as even with a full choke, my pattern is shooting about a foot or two high (maybe about 2 front sight beads above the bead) when shooting clays, and the pattern is about 4 feet wide at 50 yards on the patterning board. My guess is the velocity is too high, and the lead shot is deforming into disks during acceleration, causing them to spread out faster. The velocity being too high I think would also be why the trajectory is effectively causing the beads to be "zeroed" too low. I'm using a 12ga Mossberg 500 FLEX with the 28" hunting barrel configuration. Works just fine when using factory Winchester Universal 1 1/8th oz. 7 1/2 shot shells, which is rated 1,600 fps. I want to get very familiar with hand loading so I can buy antique and obscure firearms without worrying about ammo availability. I even want to get into making my own black powder (charcoal, saltpeter, and sulfur, if I recall). I'm very into bushcraft, and a long term goal is to make a functional firearm entirely from nature. Smelt my own iron ore I find, forge my own barrel and parts, carve my own stock (a nice one, none of that amateur crap), find my own flint, and make my own powder. Ultimate self-reliance. Why? Because it's a challenge, and how cool would it be to have your own one of a kind flintlock you ACTUALLY made from scratch? I've even been learning how to do engravings and inlays, so when I make that flintlock, it's gonna look stunning and of professional quality.
I reload lots of old cartiridges. Before jumping to a big progressive i'd suggest getting an o-framr single stage. Progressive is great for volume but its very hard to trouble shoot when learning. A singles give you the ability to focus on one thing at a time and dial in exactly what you're doing. I do large bulk batches witb my single (9mm, 223 and m1 safe 30-06) as well as old stuff ( 38 smith, 43 mauser, 41 swiss and 8mm french ordnance). When reforming messing around to make obscure cases you really want to focus on one thing at a time, Its makes it harder to screw things up.
@@sheslikeheroin1661 exactly, I have rock chucker, Hollywood and an a 550, I normally use the 550 for small handgun, like the 45 acp and the rock chucker for most things, the Hollywood is set up right now with a antique black powder/shot thrower. Keeping it simple and methodical is the key, especially for a new reloader or for someone doing wildcatting or case forming for obsolete cartridges. I have done both, and sometimes it's the little things that trip you up, and you don't want to spend you day pulling bullets.
Really cool. I'm waiting on my Non-Restricted Firearms licence up here in Canada. Hoping to get my Restricted sometime this year. This is the kind of interesting information that really gets me interested in obscure older firearms.
You guys helped me back in the 80s when I worked at the Grant Boys gun store in Southern California. I have a model 94, 1912 Winchester in 32 Winchester. You informed me I can form 3030 brass to 32 Winchester by running it through 32 dies with normal procedure. And it worked perfectly. Its a 24 inch octagon Barrelled Beauty.
Difficult at first but I grew quite savvy at making ammo for the .41 AVENGER many years ago. Made from .45 ACP brass cases using Spec. Ordered RCBS dies. Loaded with Win. Sup. Targ. AA & even 231. Projectiles we're by Nosler & Sierra & Speer for the .41 Rem. Mag. The barrel & gun & reloading dies are gone now but the experience was paramount to this day in navigating any of the other necked & or semi-bottle necked pistol cartridges from yesteryear & modern cartridges of today such as .357 SIG. Thanks for the interesting vlog. A great look back to yesterday.
It was pretty cool seeing that .38/45 case. First cases I ever formed as well. I still have a .38/45 barrel, bushing and recoil spring for an old 1911 I had back in the 1980's, along with the form dies. I still put it in one of my 1911's once in a while and send a few rounds downrange. Fun to shoot, but my .38 Super handily outperforms it. Thanks for the video, guys.
Helped a buddy once make up some 6.5 Talbot, and unobtainium silhouette round for an XP100 he came into in a trade. Fun project and did take a few different dies to form it from .223 brass with fireforming. Pretty sure the 6.5 TCU dies i used for the project came from ya'll. Thanks for doing what ya do!
Another popular modern conversion is 223/556 to 300 BLK. I make most of my own 300BLK brass the hard way because ammo with good Lake City brass is so damn expensive. Back before it’s resurgence, and before Hornady started making reasonably-priced high-quality ammo, folks were converting 7.62x39 brass to 6.5 Grendel was also popular. Now I just buy factory Hornady 6.5G brass or ammo, and then reload it. I convert .270 Win brass for my .25-06 AI, and .300 Wby for my .300 Ackley.
@@svtirefire ; 5.56mm NATO has thicker walls than .223 though and is designed for higher pressures, so it often isn't recommended to shot 556 in 223 guns.
@@FirstDagger Yes the brass is thicker. No the pressure isn't actually higher. It's measured using different tools at different points. However peak pressure 223 and peak pressure 556 are basically the same thing. I believe ultimate reloader did a very detailed breakdown on this at one point.
I bought a Tokarev pistol in 7.62x25 ages ago, and couldn't source any brass or ammo that was suitable. Got busy and made a large batches of brass from .357 magnum Federal cases. The good news was I had a job with a small machine-shop; lathe, mill, the works. I used epoxy putty to make a chamber-casting, then measured to make a reamer for cutting the case forming and sizing dies. The forming and sizing dies had a slightly different profiles. Made all the other tools, even made a collet-crimp die for securing bullets in the case. Also made up various lathe tooling and fixtures for the loading process. The hardest part of converting the brass was cutting down the rim and making the extractor-groove. Six steps on the lathe for each cartridge...tedious doesn't cover it. The case was held on the lath by a tiny screw through the flash hole. The screws broke all the time! Except for losing cases, I got lots of use out of the first batch...averaged 5 reloads per case before the necks would crack. Annealing didn't help. Collet crimp was too tight. Second batch worked much better, got 6-10 reloads before cases split. Second batch was around 280 cases, so I got lots of shooting in! I never got tired of people's reaction to picking up bottle-necked pistol brass only to see a Federal .357 head-stamp! I tried modifying 5.56 rifle brass, but that was more work than I wanted to try. Great little gun, very flat shooting, loud as hell! Once commercial ammo was available I quit making new cases, kept on reloading empties!
A few years ago when I actually had time to sit at my bench, I loaded some .38-200 rounds for a friend to shoot thru an old WW2 era Enfield revolver, I don’t remember if it was a Mark 2 or Mark 4 but I did have a blast casting those 200 gr bullets and working up a load that wouldn’t be too hard on the old pistol. GOOD TIMES !
Thanks, really enjoying the videos, I am a huge fan of making my own projectiles and brass for obsolete calibres. But in the past 10 years haven't done anything but produce ammo for the range and competition. But now I am older and no longer work I am back into it. So keep them coming, cheers from Australia.
Thanks for the help gunna fire my 45ACP brass turned into 50BMG since they are so close, I got it to be the same size but just thinner! Wish me luck guys!
It is what I do. Started with a 32-40 before it was (somewhat) back in production. Cadet Martini. 256 Win Mag for a contender barrel - Used a set of Redding forming dies; it was a must to anneal the 357 cases. This is the stuff that floats my boat. 250/3000 is getting hard to find but the 300 Savage is the mother case for many rounds. It gets a bit cranky necking down to 250...
I recently had a damaged 30-30 Marlin 336 re-bored and chambered to 35-30, which is a 30-30 necked up to .357 diameter. I guessed right and bought a .358/.356 Win. neck sizing die and it worked perfectly expanding the 30-03 brass and shaping the small shoulder. I just had to do a few trial and error cases to get the right depth for the die using a fire formed casing as a guide. I got an inexpensive Lee bullet seating and a factory crimp die of the same sizes to use to finish the job. It beat buying the very expensive custom 35-30 dies.
I never have & probably never will ever need to use the services of Brownells , Not! because I have anything against them or any particular favourite I use , simply because I live in the UK and us air weapons . Why am I here watching this then ? , I watch several different YT firearms & related channels (all interesting to Me ) Forgotten Weapons , C&Rsenal , TFM , IRV 8888 , Paul Harrell , Hickok45 , to name a few . Anyone who Helps these good people and those like them will Get a big THANK YOU ! from Me , also I found this video really interesting concise & clear with People who clearly know what their talking about . Well Done Brownells ! particularly Steve & Keith , keep up the good work . Stay Safe Stay Well & Keep on Shooting.
30-06(762x63) to 8mm(7.92×57 Mauser) or to 7.7x58 Japanese I would not DO. The case heads are smaller on 30-06, than on the Mauser or Japanese. I know that was common in the old days. Back when I first got serious into reading (41 years ago). Just because it has been done before, Does not make it a good ideal. I am very, very sure there is a better way.
I take brass; 223 Rem or 5.56 and neck it down to form '20 Practical' brass. The cartridge is accurate, fast, easy to make. [a wildcat, not an obsolete cartridge].
Been using 50AE to make 440 Corbon brass for my AR. Gonna make a hybrid soon.... gonna use 502 Thunder Sabre (essentially a 50AE with a 7.62x39 rim) to use in my 440 Corbon AR. The bolt/extractors are rare in original modified form for the 50AE rim... 7.62x39 bolts are common...
Nice video, gents! I have a bad habit of buying guns with obscure calibers. Since Jameson went under, I've been forming .45-75 Winchester brass from .50-90 Sharps. It involves annealing, cutting down the length, reducing the rim, cutting an extractor groove, thinning the rim, resizing to put in the shoulder, final sizing and final trimming (with more annealing in there). I'm slow, so it takes me about 30-45 minutes each, but at least I can shoot my gun!
My most labor intensive one is 9x56ms from 30-06, as well as anealing, shorting, turning the neck, and forming, I also have to swage the head smaller and of course fire forming. But it is awesome to hunt with.
before Starline made our life simpler , I remember making .50 Remington Army M71 for the rolling block pistol, I used brazilian CBC brass shotshells (32ga.) , also used the same brass to make 56-50 Spencer and 50-110 winchester.
I had a dutch carbine from 1915 that shot the 6.5x53r rimmed, i could not find any new brass so i did some research and found original military cartridges and got creative with 303 brit brass and 6.5 carcano dies to get my dimensions close ans then fire formed the brass to get the correct shoulder dimensions. Big pain in the butt, but it shot like a dream. Still wish i had it.
I made 45 RAPTOR brass from used casings fired from my 30-06. I had to thin the case neck a few thousandths where the bullet seats but that's about it after fire-forming in the gun.
I've made 41 mag brass out of 30-30 brass. I've made 7.62 x 25 brass out of 38 Spl. brass. For the 7.62 x 25 cases I had to use my lathe to change the case from rim to rimless. This was pretty easy. Just had to machine a plug for the inside neck of the 38 brass to support it in the lathe chuck while machining them from rim to rimless. Also, because the case wall of the 30-30 brass was thicker at the base, had to ream the case necks inside, and had to work up special loads for these thick cases. Had a lot of 30-30 brass that I picked up, with no rifle to use them in. One day, I decided to just do it. It was a fun project for my Ruger Redhawk 41 mag. Also done 45 ACP to 400 Corbon, and several others. The 400 Corbon was easy, but dependent on the brass used. I found the best brass was military or Federal. Thicker necks. Don't try it if you don't know what you are doing. I've been reloading and building rifles for more than 40 years.
I got a 25-06 rifle and had a ton of 30-06 brass and that’s really easy to reform with a 25-06 trim die. 25-06 is readily available but not that cheap and since lots of people have quite a bit of 30-06 brass it makes reloading much cheaper.
38-45 Clark. Hmm the more things change the more things stay the same! 400 corbon = 45 necked down to 40/10 356 sig = 40 necked down to 9mm. Amazing the combinations of things you can make just with some brass and some steel dies
I run .270 up into my 6.5x30.06 dies, as there is some slight variation in my 6.5 x 30.06 chamber which was made before they were (sort of) standardized by 6.5 x 30.06 A Square.
I say thank God for the awesome folks at Starline Brass! I was really happy when they began offering .44 AutoMag and 7.92X33 brass. Both are very tedious to make from .308 cases.
Kevin S for sure .44 auto mag is possibly the most pain in the butt stuff to produce. That gun is long gone and thank goodness. Unfortunately now you can order the brass without all the torture.
@@john-paulsilke893 I have a .44 AutoMag pistol, made by Pasadena Arms back in 1975. The rifle I have in 7.92X33 is a Mauser VG-5 semi-auto made in late 1944. Both guns are great shooters, and draw much attention at any shooting range.
Kevin S color me jealous sir. Not of the expense or the extraction/cycling issues of that AutoMag. But definitely jealous for sure. I had a second gen AutoMag and we had a Hell of a time making it go more then 3 in a row. But man that gun was so fine. Clearly it was ammo, because it was capital F-I-N-E and amazing. We just couldn’t shoot it. ☹️
@@john-paulsilke893 I have the feeling you pistol had bad mag springs. I had the same problem with mine, so I replaced the mag springs with new ones meant for the Desert Eagle .44 mag, And have had no trouble since. I think the original springs had too much tension, because the mags were very difficult to load. Yours may have also had gas port issues.
I purchased a 6mm x 284 rifle, and it came with a pile of brand new winchester 284, so I had to size the neck down a millimeter, which seemed easy enough until I tried just running it through a 6mm die and crushed 4 of them. Tried lube and heat to no avail. I began looking through my die sets and grabbed my neck sizing die for my 6.5 creedmoor, which with some careful work on the press did some progress but still to big. I then grabbed the 6.5 crimp die and inserted the case upside-down through the top while working the handle to shrink it a little more to the right size, to which I could finally run it through the 6mm die and bamb finished.
I got an 8 mm Nabu, I was using 32 Rem, very easy to size, ream the neck cut it down but they stop making them. So I looked at 30-30 and they work but you had to do some lathe work turn the rim off, shorten the base, and make a tool to cut the ejection grove in. Found a company that made bullets the Green Bay Bullets I don't know if they are still in business. I did find some bullet mold that would work. I did found a box of bullets, but the cost was the same as the forming dies $300.00. It shot good with the 32 Rems, and the 30-30. Not sure what the total cost comes too. But it was fun!
.45 to .400 Cor-Bon. Have an AMT in .400 and also have a conversion barrel for my 1911. Hot little round! Need to check out who might have some decent dies for this round.
I made 45 ACP shot shells with 308 brass. Crimped in over shot card was cardboard punched out with a cutdown 308 brass with the primer pocket drilled for a dowel rod to extract the cards. Over powder was is a 410 card. Dies are available from RCBS, PN 56552. The original issue GI survival shot shells were standard 45ACP brass with a paper cone to hold the shot. Moisture was a problem and not much of that has survived!
Thinking of getting a Krag in the future as I have this newfound interest in rifles with a rim to headspace off of. How is that process turning .303 into .30-40? Just resizing the case or is there any trimming involved?
Dick Tickles Just resizing through a Krag die and fireforming with a start load. I might get 1/100 where the brass splits when fireformed and the necks end up a little short, but when you can’t get Krag brass it’s definitely worth doing.
A few weeks back I traded for a rifle that has Brogne 6x61 stamped in barrel. Has Mauser Brno vz24 action. Barrel is 29 inches long 1 1/4 in diam at receiver .867 diam at muzzle. Has Unertl BV 20 scope. Made a chamber casting looks like brass can be made from 264 Winchester . I am not out to burn up the barrel. Thought it would be fun to play with. Chamber and bore in excellent condition.
French 8 mm Daudeteau its an obsolete Cartridge curiously used in a lot of Military Converted Mausers here in Uruguay. Ian from Forgotten Weapons did a video abut them.
Some years ago, I obtained a 14" T/C Contender barrel in .219 Zipper and a set of reloading dies shortly thereafter. After an unsuccessful attempt at using .30-30 brass, I located a supply of Winchester .25-35 brass. No inside neck reaming was necessary, just a minor trim to proper length, then load and fire.
Concerning the 96 Mauser and .223 Brass. I Received Two That through poor cleaning over Years(China Imports 30 Years Ago),had corrosion in the Chamber Shoulder. After a Good cleaning Factory Ammo Was Too Short. Cast Bullets and a Homemade Die Made them Usable Again. Know How To Tell If The Person Behind The Counter At A Gun Store Knows Anything? Hand Them A "Modified" Case And Ask"Got Any Of Those"? It Is No Longer A Surprise How Many Look At the Base,Then Don't Understand Why It's Not What's In The Box They Pull Out! Nonte's Book is Excellent,Sometimes A Little Difficult To Find. The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions Provides Lots Of Dimensions To Help Determine What Cases Might Work Best. There Are A Few Easily Spotted Mistakes In The First Edition,Just Be Smart Enough To Pay Attention. Starline ROCKS!
Fellas, I’ve got this Grandfather sporterized Mauser rifle chambered in 270 Mashburn Super Mag. I purchased PO Akley book on handloading for shooters volume 1&2 and the dies but have no further idea how to get there with the brass
Be cautious about utilizing .38 special brass for this task as the fire forming process may thin out the case walls and cause rupturing given the walls have to stretch to fill the slightly larger cylinder bore.
I really think .30 Luger should see a rebirth. Bullet tech has come a LONG way since the turn of the 20th century, and it could give 5.7x28mm a run for it's money.
@Doom Not necessary. The conversion would only require a new barrel and maybe a different recoil spring. Take your pick of modern 9mm Luger and it can be converted to .30 Luger.
@Adam Halsey That would be fine and good, though you'll need to use larger pistol frames or a new design entirely. I do like roller locked designs such as the CZ-52.
I Once had loaded rounds from an old fella , 6.5 x55. I think we’re turned into 7.62x39 Was their once a shortage on 7.62x39 that some one had to make brass in that caliber or most 7.62x39 is steel and can’t be re loaded ??
5.45x18mm Soviet is a royal headache. Primarily because there is no real appropriate case in the US to start from. 5.7x28 is what I start with, cut the case down to just below the shoulder. Then press it onto a custom turned mandrel, chuck it up in the lathe and turn the whole outside of the case NOT to the finished profile (except for the head) but rather what will give the correct finished body wall thickness and correct internal taper to balance strength, elasticity, and internal capacity. Then you aneal and size in a custom die that forms a straight wall profile that gives a correct body profile without shoulder and neck formed and while the case is in that custom die fully seated you run a custom reamer that is back piloted in a precision straight bore down into the top of the die with depth stop. The die and reamer being a matched pair. That reamer ensuring the final correct outside-vs.-inside dimensions and correct wall thicknesses for the body of the case. Then you use a second die to form the shoulder and neck. Do a final neck turning and trim to length. Then to load it you need correctly sized projectiles which is a whole different project.
@@DickTickles I have tried both just cutting from the outside with the lathe only, skipping the reamer on inside step. And, also, just reprofiling the case head only on the outside in the lathe and skipping doing any profiling on the body walls and then using only the reamer on the inside after pressing into the first stage die to get the case wall thickness and profile inside and out correct. The results either way don't work out near as well. Can't really simplify the process any further then I have limited it down to presently. I do have custom jigs all made up including trace cut profiles for manual lathe for the outside cut for several different brands of 5.7x28 brass. Back before I could easily get 5.7x28 brass to start with. Well I re-loaded the factory brass I had a limited supply of as many times as I could with those hard to get and hard to reload berdan primers, especially since they were a harder to get slightly smaller then the usual small size. Then when I wore out all of those, along with getting the very rare non-steel tipped factory loads brought into the country one box at a time from South America and Eastern Europe and re-loading those over and over until they wore out I also could just barely make some from 25-ACP brass with about a 75% failure rate in forming with a shorter neck and much thinner walls then the cartridge is supposed to have loaded with reduced loads that won't cycle the action so it become a manual cycling pistol. Never quite got desperate enough to start from straight brass rod stock. But currently if I had too go that far, I could with the process and jigs I have worked out for converting 5.7x28 brass. There are very few 5.45x18mm Soviet cartridge guns in the US that there probably never will be any commercial source of brass. Mine came off a criminal amigo from South of the border caught north of the border by local law enforcement in a state where they have a "no destruction" law on the books that means they must sell guns seazed from criminals at auction to law-abiding and can't destroy them. The 5.45x18mm Soviet guns are illegal to import (too small and with steel tipped AP ammo as a standard ammo option in a handgun from it's conception so it has always been outside of import regs) But not illegal to posses, buy, or sell once in the U.S. and my Grandfather picked it up at action in a lot buy and he passed it down to me when I was in my early twenties which was a lot longer ago then I would like to admit.
Brass is readily available for my 338 win mag but i have about 1000 rounds of brass from a 7 mag i had so i just neck it up and it shoots fine i get about 3 reloads out of it before the primer pocket gets to loose so ya
Its an interesting thing to know you can find a "parent" case to obsolete or expensive brass 32-40 can be made in one pass from 30-30 (brass is a tad short but still usable) Or 318 WR from 30-06 after sending it through a die and trimming the 30-06 case. This one saves a ton of money due to that case being expensive. My bullet seater is useless as i wildcatted it to use easy to obtain 338 bullets (instead of .330)
