@@89turbomk3 u don't get the point ! Dassault with the USAF budget during 40 years and i'm quite sure that french could already travel to mars ! USAF spends this huge budget since decades! the so called unbeatable F22 has never ever defeat the Rafale, but the Rafale did! aviation is a french word
Honesty International actually i do get the point, because humans and there Technological Advancement still is nowhere capable of traveling to Mars even if Combine all of the money in the world. Hopefully you’ll get my point
@@89turbomk3 relevant answer! in 1939, it was unthinkable to send rockets into space and with huge budget Nazis were sending V2 in 1944! so with huge budget from 1960 to 2019 as USAF, Dassault would be capable of travelling to Mars. Hopefully you’ll get my point :)
Haha c'est tellement bon de voir ce genre d'image ou on entend le pilote Français se prendre plein de G dans la tronche pour ne pas perdre le dogfight. Bien joué aux pilotes vous n'avez plus rien à prouver avant un bon moment, vous êtes les meilleurs tout simplement ! Surtout quand on sait que le Rafale est censé être un avion d'une génération en dessous du raptor...
en vérité c'est plus compliquer 4 ou 5 c'est simplement un concept inventer par les américains pour garder un semblant d'avance technologique,c'est basé sur la date de mise en oeuvre du projetX,ensuite évidement ils sont en avance puisqu'ils ont commencés via les dollars du lobby militaro industriel qui règne en Dieu au Usa!et se définir comme inventeur et fabricant d'une arme de nouvelle génération!!c'est aussi bête que ça,et les autre pays peuvent ou pas suivre dans l'investissement de tel ou tel projet,sachant que pour la France elle n'est pas manipulée ou dirigée par ce genre de lobby!nous faisons juste ce qu'il faut quand il faut!!mercià oui le Rafale est de ce fait un avion de 5eme génération à cette date comme le Raptor car en constante évolution,merci.
En fait les américains ont inventé une génération d'avion et ils ont mis que les leurs dedans. Du coup ils pouvaient dire "nos avions sont les meilleurs de leur génération " 😂😂
a another thing : France have some of best fighter pilots in the world with one of the highest flying time ratio per pilots in the world (more than RAF pilots)
Tha goes for Greeks and 5 years ago the Turks before the coup attempt (the got half of Turkish pilots to jail )Only the iconic dogfights they do every day is more than enough
+arno222444 The French are not being invited back because they behave like assholes. Everyone knows Red Flag is a no holds barred bring your best environment. That means, you use your very best kit, your radar in war reserve mode, same for missiles, etc. Everyone does this, the Americans, the Brits, the Israelis, the Aussies, the Indians, everyone. But not the French. They sit there operating in very limited modes soaking up everyone else's emissions and using that to improve their own kit to gain more sales (the French procurement model being designed around foreign sales for funding). They'd been warned twice to knock it off. They did it again in '13, so no more invites. It pisses every other participant off. As for this video, MiG-17s shot down F-4s and no one would claim the MiG was more advanced or a better aircraft. Every dog has its day. Many of these exercises are scripted. It could have been a defensive BFM exercise for the -22 which requires the pilot to execute to perfection to not get shot down. It's a testament to the reputation of the F-22 that everyone that can get one on gun camera (not very often) literally busts a nut with excitement. As a substitute they now get a very limited tripartite exercise with the Brits at Langley. Sort of like probation.
+hckyplyr9285 lol one wonders who is the asshole in history? ^^ France is just militarily independent, she strives to have an army and a material just by her and built by her even despite the world who speaks ill of it
Le Rafale a clairement eu son kill, il a eu le temps de tirer un Fox 2 une 1ère fois, qui aurait sûrement touché, et à la fin de la vidéo il l'a gardé dans sa visée un long moment, avant de décrocher et finir l'exercice. Je comprends rien à ce que le gars dit à la fin par contre, dommage. On voit bien que le F22 n'a aucun réservoir sous les ailes également pendant le dogfight. Après, il y a sûrement dû avoir plusieurs engagements, peut-être certains avec des réservoirs, qui sait. Assez dur de savoir qui dit vrai, sachant que chaque parti annonce des résultats complètement différents. En tout cas merci pour le partage, c'est assez rare d'avoir des vidéos de dogfight moderne, c'est vraiment impressionnant.
Il n'a pas "clairement" eut son kill. La réussite du FOX2 est hautement discutable, et son gun kill est également "capillotracté". Cela ne prouve rien mis à part que le Rafale peut rivaliser en close... certainement pas qu'il est meilleur. Le seul prob ... c'est que de nos jours, ce n'est pas en close que sa se joue. Et là, le 22 a un avantage indéniable.
Dee-Jay Oui merci, je n'ai jamais dit que ça prouvait quoi que ce soit sur qui est meilleur en quoi. En revanche je pense qu'il a clairement eu son kill à la fin, il n'aurait pas mis fin à l'exercice comme ça autrement.
Ce n'est pas tout a fait l'avis de mes amis qui sont également sur Rafale et -5. A la fin je ne suis pas sûr que ce sois lui qui réclame le terminate. (?) Je ne connais pas les indicatifs, mais d’abord c'est "confirme terminate" ... ensuite j'ai l'impression qu'il s'adresse au gestionnaire de zone ou au contrôle pour annoncer le fin de celui ci pour les deux avions et "request to perfom a n ..." ? là on sais pas ... perform quoi? an RTB ... another set up ? a new set up ... ?
Dee-Jay Si ça peut t'aider, de ce que j'arrive à décrypter a la fin, il répond à l'AWACS on dirait et lui demande de répéter une info ("say again your last"... quelque chose), et termine par "confirm [...] from target, back to AirMax (le nom d'un checkpoint ou de l'AWACS peut-être justement), P1 terminate, request terminate.
4:34 - Airmax copy … confirm your (last? xxxx? ) - Copy. - Say again your last for Airmax. - Say again your last for Airmax, unreadable (?), Black2 - Last fight copy! - Confirm we perform terminate? - Black2, Airmax, 3-1 terminate. Là il change peut etre de poste avec le contolre ou le gestionaire de zone (?) ... ou pas ... je ne sais pas. … Request terminate. - I request to terminate and perform a n ... Pour moi c’est le 22 qui demande la fin de l'engagement et le Rafale qui le relai. (pas sûr à 100%, il nous manque l’écoute.)
L'article associé est très bien fait. Il ne dit pas que le Rafale est le meilleur mais qu'en combat rapproché il se défend plus que bien, même face au F-22 dont le premier atout semble être la furtivité.
Tout comme Bugatti refusera toujours de reconnaître publiquement qu'il existe mieux et moins cher que leur Veyron, les US ne reconnaîtront jamais officiellement que leur invincible F-22 puisse perdre face a un Rafale bien moins cher. Fierté Nationale, quand tu nous tient...
Sur quels critères existe t'il mieux que Bugatti? Le confort d'une Bugatti face à une Koenigsegg est incomparable par exemple. Et puis il y a aussi l'image de marque/luxe qui entre en jeu.
@@Quatuux oh ta gueule ici on parle d'avion de chasse pas de voiture de luxe et on appel sa une métaphore re vois tes programme de 4ieme avant de marquer un commentaire qui na rien a voir avec celui d'au dessu
Je pense que en supériorité aérienne le F22 est meilleur, en polyvalence le rafale est meilleur. Un F22 c'est fait pour détruire avant même d'être vu, les dogfight existent plus de nos jours
Virgile Dobrowolski Personne à part les militaires n'ont accès aux rapports de mission, donc si vous pensez lire de vrais rapports sur Internet vous êtes totalement naïf. En revanche le fait que le rafale ne soit plus invité au red flag soit disant, celon les américains, à cause du système SPECTRA qui aurait été utilisé pour récupérer des informations sur les autres chasseurs de l'OTAN est un fait, donc avant de faire le "monsieur je connais tout et moi je suis informé", merci de réfléchir 2 minutes
You forget the impressive SU27/35, F16, Gripen and Eurofighter which to me just looks a little more dynamic in the air than Rafale. Is the Rafale wing restricting the dynamics?
@@mjames2117 No the delta wing (Rafale, Mirage 2000) gives much more agility to airplanes than the arrow wings like F-16's or F-18's for instance (only drawback is that deltawings are pretty unstable at low speed, explaining why Rafale has small front wings which correct the phenomenon). So if you have a double engine, together with front wings with a pretty small size, Rafale is clearly more agile than F16, Gripen and even Eurofighter (Rafale won easily dog fights over Eurofighter). Since SU27/35 do not have vectoriel thrusts, I doubt they would be much more agile than Rafale (which managed to get almost even with the F22 Raptor), although there is no track record of Rafale/Sukhoi dogfight as far as I know...
congrants to the French pilot.Very good job.Moυ θυμησε εναν δικο μας πιλοτο που ειχε στο φοξ3 τον τουρκο και ειπε θα τον ξεσκισω τον μπινε.Παντα τετοια....
ALright everybody pay attention. This is how you pronounce 'RAFALE': RA-FALE --> 2 syllable word --> 'A' is prounnouced 'AH' as in 'ARM'. The 'E' at the end is silent. RAFALE means 'Burst of fire' in the military shooting sense and 'Gust' of wind in the meteorological sense.
@@Klliansimabras Les actifs + réservistes de l'armée turque = la population totale de la Grèce, tu ajoutes le gap technologique sur les drones etc je vois mal les grecques s'en sortir
@@Agesilas2 Those are FAKE NEWS never happened, never will. We have a great plane, truly the best, tremendous pilots, great great peoples. That I can tell you.
@@arnaudsurribas2963 Ι just wondering...American pilots you say are the best...how do you know?? You never fight with someone your own size your pilots only bombing iraq, Syria,Libya and Serbia. How do you know that you are the best? indian pilots fight every day with pakistani pilots, chinese pilots fights every day with japanese and Greek pilots fight every day with turkish pilots how do you know you are the best without you compiting with anything in you size? Greek pilots were voted as the best in the world at the NATO Tactical Leadership Programme meeting (TLP 2019-1). They were recognised for their interceptions, long-range bombardment and strikes against war ships under extreme weather conditions.
juckclie Pour ce qu'il est capable de faire il vaut son prix, il n'y a aucun aucun avion qui n'est capable de faire la même chose que lui. Et quand on voit l'Eurofighter qui est moins capable et plus cher, le Rafale a plutôt un bon prix. Mais oui peu de pays peuvent se le permettre, et l'influence américaine n'aide pas.
au final les américina sboycotte le rafale et le mirage 2000 car ils se sentent menacés, genre le Gripen acheté par le l'Inde et la Suisse alors que ces avions sont aussi efficace qu'une brique lancé dans une vitre blindée merci pour le clone (raté) du F16 co produit avec les ricains
ça me rappelle un vieux docu sur "les avions du futur" où on voyais une toute petite escadrille de 8 f-22 poutrer à elle seule une flotte de 30 rafales et su-35 flanker avec une seule perte à la fin x)
Un bon dessin animé américain très marrant. Quand je l'ai vu, je me suis demandé quel machine ils avaient inventé, puis plus ça allait, plus je rigolais. Je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'aviation mais cette bonne propagande américaine est tout à fait détectable, on se serait cru dans indepandance day. Remarquable reportage-animé!!!
***** t'es complètement con ou tu fais exprès? Je te parle d'un ancien documentaire animé "les avions du futur"... suis la conversation avant de me parler bisounours, facile d'agresser les gens derrière un écran, je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'aviation comme je te l'ai dis, mais la propagande américaine ça je connais un peu... Je connais aussi le crochet du droit et le direct du gauche si tu veux des précisions sur mes compétences... Je te conseil donc de regarder le documentaire susnommé avant d'ouvrir ta putain de grande gueule et peut-être connard, que tu pourra venir t'exprimer.
***** très bien si tu t'en fou de la discussion du haut, ferme bien ta gueule et fais pas chier le monde. Apprends à tirer au 12 et pas sur une pauvre cible. t'as quel âge tas de merde... minable...t'es le 1er à répondre à cette discussion, t'es vraiment un vrai minable, t'as que ça à foutre... t'as pas vu que tu répondais à adam fett... va dormir.
Nothing against the rafale, it’s a great fighter. But of course a dose of reality; the f22 in this exercise shot down 6 rafale’s before this incident. And then of course this French pilot was able to achieve this victory through subjecting himself to incredible G’s of force, you can hear him struggling not to pass out in the video. This was something the American pilot wasn’t willing to do in a training exercise. Of course there is little to dispute the notion that the f22 is more manoeuvrablethan the rafale and superior in just about every other aspect for that matter
@jcwalker If you think that f22 wasn't pulling some serious Gs as well, you're deluding yourself. Fact is the f22's true advantage is BVR. In CQ the better pilot will win this fight 9 times outta 10.
@@King-mj2bn true that perhaps the biggest factor in a dogfight is pilot skill, but of course being in a faster and more manoeuvrable jet may be just as important. You can see from the video that the f22 has started out in a handicapped position relative to the Rafale. It’s unlikely in a real world scenario that an f22 would find itself in a disadvantageous position considering it’s all-aspect stealth. It’s hard to imagine any amount of pilot skill would save a rafale in a disadvantaged position relative to an f22.
Ni les ricains , ni les anglais ne sont venus chercher une revanche depuis. Les ricains etaient un peu sur d'eux, ca arrive. L'enjeu etait d'abaisser le rafale face aux EAU. Ils ont donc envoyé ce qu'il avaient de mieux. C'etait un peu optimiste. Les anglais ont interdiction de croiser le fer avec le rafale depuis. Je crois pas que sur la planete y'ait de pilote serieux qui se dit que les avions de Dassault sont des gadgets.
***** idem , même les ricains ne veulent plus rencontrer les avions Français , à chaque fois ça se passe mal pour eux , même aux émirats , un F22 a croisé le fer avec un Mirage 2000-9 , mal lui en à pris , le F22 s'est pris une raclée !! lol
***** j'ai corrigé , mirage 2000-9 des émirats au lieu d'un -5 , piloté par un pilote français a battu un 22 aux émirats à l'ATLC 2009 ! pas pub bien sur ! pour la rencontre F22 vs Rafale , la rencontre s'est terminée en " neutralisation mutuelle " !! mais il n'a jamais été dit qu'un Rafale fut battu , mais dans le rapport il est dit qu'un F22 a été une fois en position de faire un tir canon mais il n'a jamais était dit qu'un Rafale fut battu ! par contre , bizarrement , la victoire du Rafale contre le F22 de cette vidéo n'a jamais été mis au compteur du Rafale ! drôle , non ?
***** tu crois pas qu'en France ou dans le monde s'est pas la même chose ? toujours dur de reconnaitre nos erreurs ou nos faiblesses ! chez les allemands et leur ICE qui a déraillé , il roule toujours , notre tgv a déraillé plusieurs fois , quelques bosses sans plus , chez les allemands , des dizaines de morts et plus de 100 blessés ! l'ICE s'est replié en accordéon , le TGV non , il peut pas !
***** Arrete ! Les francais ne sont pas des extra terrestes. Ce truc est une vidéo. Je n'ai jamais dit que le rafale explosait un F22 dans toutes les circonstances. Juste que les ricains ont envoyé cet avion pour nous faire chier et qu'en combat rappoché, ca marchait pas. Aucun pays ne donne toutes les billes.Le Rafale n'est pas l'avion fabriqué pour bousiller le F22. En combat rapproché , il peut bousiller un F22 c'est tout, mais il ne va pas sur Mars Jamais tu ne verras de tests a longue distance car c'est confidentiel defense pour chaque pays. Aucun pays ne va donner a l'autre les capacités reelles de son avion. Aucun pays n'a non plus les vraies capacités a distance de l'avion d'en face. Il les soupsonnes c tout.
abinadvd la rencontre entre ces deux avions s'est faites sans spectra et sans le radar , les américains ont même dit que les Français étaient venus faire de l'espionnage afin de connaitre toutes les fréquences utiliser dans le F22 ( en brouillage ou en émission ) c'est toujours plus facile de brouiller des fréquences quand on les connait d'avance ! lol ! non , le Rafale est là pour vaincre ces ennemis ( disons les ennemis de la France ) ! de toutes façons , il est impossible pour un réacteur de Rafale d'aller dans l'espace , pour bruler du kérosène , il faut de l'oxygène ( l'air ) , dans l'espace , il y a le vide , donc dur dur d'aller sur mars !! mais les ingénieurs Français sont les meilleurs du monde , à tel point que les américains viennent en France les débaucher !!
@@bastitoutouvolaille9228 He has full lock on for a FOX-2 k!ll at 2:52 but is still in FOX-3 mode _(Can be seen left of the weapon list in the inferior part of the screen)_ He also has a full lock on for a GUN k!ll at 4:50 and is in GUN mode, but chose to deviate to avoid any risk of collision rather than firing _(he could've fired, their weapon systems were infrared, not real ones)_ There are other opportunities that are up for debate, namely a FOX-3 early on, but these two leave absolutely no doubt Also keep in mind that this was a joint exercice, not a competition _(although regarded as such by many later on because of the Rafale win that sparked a controvery in the US)_ Hence both air force sent pilotes in need of training that made mistakes, not their best elements _(the french pilot for instance wouldve missed the k!ll at __2:52__ because not in the apropriate weapon mode)_
At this distance stealth means nothing, of course Rafale could lock Raptor; Rafale is also incredibly agile fighter. Raptor has the edge thanks to TVC but as can be seen in this video where it cannot shake Rafale off his tail, it's not that big difference when enemy pilot is really good (like this Frenchie was)
@@89turbomk3 That's the purpose of a dogfight... The F22 never allowed the Rafale to get close BEHIND HIM. That's a lie. The F22 is just less manoeuvrable, yet it was made for dogfight, while the Rafale wasn't made for this purpose, what a failure for the F22.
L'eurofighter nettement supérieur au rafale? Qu'ils peuvent être pas très futés ces anglo-saxons des fois! :p Si je me souviens bien le rafale est pas le meilleur chasseur d'Europe? Confirmé par les suisses je crois.
kira68200 Ce n'est même pas en théorie, c'est en pratique. Le F35 ne peut pas sortir sans un F22 pour l'escorter (dixit l'USAF), le Rafale bat le 22 ainsi que l'Eurofighter. Sans compter les F16, mais bon là c'est normal. En fait, jusqu'à présent et sauf erreur de ma part, tous les exercices ont donné le Rafale vainqueur. Les échecs commerciaux de Dassault sont incompréhensibles au vu des performances réelles et des notations des état-majors lors des évaluations en vue de choisir un nouvel avion à acheter.
j'ai mis en théorie parce qu'il y'a toujours des emmerdeurs pour dire que c'est faux ça c'est tout con, le rafale et le mirage 2000 ne se vendent pas parce que les pays intéressés subissent un monopole des américains et comme ces derniers se sentent menacés il les boycottent voila pourquoi nos avions ne se vendent pas :)
Il y a clairement une pression US pour refourguer leur F35 virtuel, mais c'est parfois le Saab Gripen qui a été choisi... pas compris la décision suisse... Tout ça me laisse penser qu'il faudrait une industrie européenne de l'armement comme on l'a déjà pour l'aviation civile. L'UE dépense un fric monstre pour entretenir une flotte de bonne qualité mais composée d'avions trop variés. www.lopinion.fr/blog/secret-defense/monde-s-arme-alors-que-l-occident-desarme-11598 Si on produisait ensemble, on vendrait déjà sur notre marché intérieur (très gros: 2618 avions de combat www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/reports_pdf/world-air-forces-2013-101015.aspx) et l'export en serait facilité. Mais bon, vu comment les élections européennes se profilent... je doute que les projets ambitieux soient possibles...
le Gripen est à la base un clone de F16 c'est une grosse bouse mais du coup les ricains sont content parce que c'est pas des avions français et oui mais à ce moment la faudrait faire mieux que l'Eurofighter qui est quand même pas terrible
C'est entre 4:50 et 4:53 qu'il y a "kill Raptor" (deux fois de suite) au canon pour le Rafale !! Par contre, vu l'angle de tir, la distance trop courte et la trajectoire latérale rapide du F22 au moment du 'Fox2' (3:07), le 'splash Raptor' était tout sauf garanti. C'est bien au canon que le F22 est abattu. Un grand moment de combat aérien, et une sacrée prouesse des ailes françaises ! Bravo !!
Sur une video de "ATE", il précise que sur ce coup là, le F-22 s'était fait accroché FOX 2 et ensuite verrouillé au tir canon !!! Et pan, au tapis le Raptor !!!
Dear Archy, The fact that even an F-22 can be "foxed 2" by a Rafale, says something A. about the class of French fighter pilots in general and B. that the F-22 is not invulnerable, even to 10 year older technology. Should an F-22 jock think that, it would mean he becomes complacent and less alert. Lesson one from any war that has ever been fought: NEVER underestimate your opponent! How much more Vietnams and Afghanistans must the US encounter, before Americans take that lesson to heart?
americans never learn.they classified it.this was classified by usa but the french showed the actual scenario.same with A117 shot down in bosnian war. when F35 lost against all three mayor european fighters.
This video is similar to the final scene in Gladiator, where the Emperor stabs Maximus shortly before their final duel to "level the playing field" -- the F22 was designed around BVR combat. That's not to say it isn't a capable dogfighter (The Rafale scores no victories against it) but to trash the Raptor because it doesn't mop the floor with every other aircraft in a WW2 style dogfight is just ignorant.
***** The raptor stealth is only in transit, when it turns on his radar to he will be spotted by his opponents. The F22 is probably the best fighter in air to air but he is far from untouchable, especially against aircraft like the raphale. (The raphale has also stealth technologies.)
Philippe MASSON Ouais sauf que c'est pas un jeu faut toujours se rappeler ça à l'esprit. Quand le pilote Français se prend plein G on sait très bien qu'il suffit d'une erreur et c'est fini ;)
Both aircraft are excellent fighters, but are worlds apart. The Rafale's delta wing shape is what allowed it to maneuver around and get behind the F-22 at very low speeds (without stalling). This however is a dogfight and the F-22 was not designed for this situation, but BVR. In a real world scenario, the F-22 would have detected the Rafale at 130 mi and fired an AMRAAM at 90 mi. The Dassault would be dead before he even knew he had an enemy.
it s not because you detect the rafale before that you can destroy it , rafale has the spectra countermeasures sytem . not so easy to destroy it by missile .
No at all because when f22 lauch the "amraam, it bécome detectable and even in "wings of war" which is full for the USA, F22 never touch a Rafale in direct missile shots. Rafale leave the fight safe. Only in dogfight they won but as you can see on this movie which show the reality, it s wrong so. I leave you to make a conclusion.
F-22 not designed for dogfight? This means the american taxpayer is this dumb he paid for a useless VECTOR THRUST ! ! ! You should also remember that shape and materials are not the only ways to achieve "stealth". This word, and the "5th gen fighter" too, a pure commercial propaganda. To avoid being detected by radars is a constant of warplanes design since the WWII, with bombers releasing stripes of fin metal sheets whose lenght was calculated to jam enemy radar's frequencies. Today's electronic jamming paired with low IR signature engined add to the Rafale's intrinsic relatively low-level, but way cheaper, shape and materials stealth which already ensure a division of the radar signature by a factor of at least 10 when compared with a Mirage 2000 (same class as the F-16) , this combination makes her way harder to detect than most of people may believe. The one and only reason for the Rafale-bashing is our will to stay independent from a military point of view, period. Now, remember that military planes are seldom chosen for technical reason, you basically buy an alliance. In order to choose a plane instead of an ally, you need : a real need for effective weapons because you make war on your homeland, multiple foreign providers so that you get a B-plan, and a national plane, whatever bad or retarded it is as long as it flies and can be mass-produced on-demand as a C-plan. India has both (Russian planes, the locallly made Tejas and also a 5th-gen project) and you know what they eventually bought.
Don.t forget , rafale is a real multirole combat aircraft, highly maneuverable, at same level or higher in close combat wvr, which is a performance, against other aircrafts specialised in air superiority. US always developped fighters able to get superiority at lon range(F14, f4., etc, ) but in current operational theaters, identification confirmation is often required, very rare to engage at 90nm...then rafale is a good choice. I know frm rafale pilots that rafale often takes advantage on heavier us fighters during dogfights, and have excelent systems to fly very low and for air to ground. Rafale is a good choice for france, and shows a great efficiencein operations
Amazing flying by the pilot. But by using external tanks, the F-22 gave up maneuverability and more importantly, it's stealth capabilities. If the F-22 went stealth mode, without the external tanks, it's unlikely the Rafale pilot would have ever seen it on radar.
i dont know what you say but f-22 if that was real dogfight was dead ... i dont know what you say but in this video you just see the f-22 loosing 3 times but the pilot say that was killed only at the last ... we sew that video with my brother ... he is a pilot in greek airforce ... and he say that "rafale had 2 more momments to kill f-22 but on practice when you are aggresion you need more than one time kill to take it"
If it was real combat the Rafale would already be shot down lol. Easy to win when you pick the fight to suit the aircraft but a stealthy aircraft would shoot it down before it's even spotted.
I love France, too. Very good ally goping way back to the very beginnings of the USA's creation. If it weren't for the French we wouldn't have been able to defeat the Brits. The Rafale might be able to detect the F-22 with its Spectra, just like how the F-22 uses its AN/ALR passive receiver, but detecting a plane and being able to lock onto it are different matters. ;) Peace.
C'est vraiment dommage de ne pas avoir fait la vidéo en anglais. Si c'est juste pour convaincre les français, c'est pas très utile... Beau travail néanmoins.
Il faudrait arrêter avec les commentaires de gens qui n'y connaissent rien. It would be better to stop the comments from people almost completly ignorant.
De toute façon des f22 y en aura que 186 et au prix et temps d'entretient pour une heure de vol, les pilotes ricains sont pas prêt de devenir des caïds sur f22... LOL
@@Meemeec non il y en aura pas beaucoup plus une 30aine au mieux mais par contre grace a leurs disponibilités et faible coût d'heure de vol (pour un chasseur de ce type) ils vont cumulé bien plus d'heures de vols.
couilluss The Rafale is a VERY good lightweight fighter. People shitting on it are just idiots. Also, F-22 > Rafale in real world scenario. Not hating, just convinced the '22 wins even 2vs1's vs ANY 4-4.5 gen fighter 9 out of 10 times BVR.
Only jalousy, they just don't understand why a small country have a better aircraft, coz they know nothing about french History and french technology... Airbus, arian Space, etc... How comes ??! 😂 À small country ?! 😂
I disagree with 2 to 1 but agree with the outcome. And I'm French, I'm a Rafale fanboy etc. Rafale is omnirole, F22 a pure fighter: there is no arguments to be made. BUT : USA overmarkets it. There is a lot of propaganda in what they say. A 2 to 1 battle can't really exist because of the prices involved : the nation using F22 would need many categories of planes to complete their air capabilities. Whereas you need Rafale, logistics planes and a couple of radar plane and voila. No extra needs for specialised mecanics, specialised logistics etc. This is the best advantage of the Rafale over so many modern planes, if not most. I think the Rafale is in the top 5 planes in anything it does, whereas for exemple the F35 may be one of the best 5gen light bomber in the current world, or the F22 one of the best fighters (and all the great russian planes are superb !), but since you need other planes to accompany these birds, you need pilots, special mecanics, extra mecanical parts etc. With Rafale you need just Rafale stuff. Man, I love that plane. Seing it hooking a F22 is a joy, even in a high-fantasy scenario like that (the french text at the begining of the video specifies that ROE are unknown, so doesn't conclude ANYTHING). Because that just means that with tons of lucks and such an imaginary situation, a Rafale is not useless. Just this, nothing more. And that if Rafale was a US plane with US marketting, it would be qualified as the Rafael angel best at most things. Now, every fighters will be ugly drones in 10 years anyway, so both planes may be outdated sooner they we'd like :/
Enfin une chose est sure, c'est que les rafales sont vraiment opérationnels et remplissent tout un tas de missions, et pas en simulations eux . Par contre les F-XX, typhoons, SU-XX, hors aishows, on les voit pas briller,donc j'aime bcp les pseudo ingénieurs qui font des pronostics sur des specs et mettent des avions sur des piédestals par rapport au rafale, forcement, c'est un avion français donc largement moins bon .
Two great fighters, flexing muscles. But to me, this is irrelevant, because there is close to 0% chance that these two fighters will see each other in real combat. Other than that, great exercise.
If an aircraft fires from a distance, this gives the target aircraft time to act to avoid the missile. Missiles do not win every time. In future combat, fighter planes will be accompanied by drones. In case of difficulties, and even in normal cases, there will always be a drone placed as a mask to take enemy fire. It will ALWAYS come down to close combat, except against low quality armies.
Fritz you are correct. --> Aerospace Engineer Checking In :) TVC helps with Roll, Pitch, and Yaw rates as well as post stall control. But maneuvers like Cobra, Flat Spin, and 30+AOA aren't going to help in BFM where maintaining a high energy state is the key to victory. High AOA bleeds energy which will get you killed every time. Large control surfaces or canards can have the same effects of TVC at low speed, but in BFM you will be matched...which is what we observe in the video. Cheers!
of course YES it can supercruise with full missile , i think you underestimate RAFALE, because you don't understand FRENCH ,if you listen the pilot in the end . the rafale touched 2 times the F22 if it shooted with real missiles .F22 is not invincible,RAFALE can hold the head F22, and USAF was understood very well in this training race.
Rafale-F3R: It's good that the Rafale had some wins. No-one, on either side, improves if you win every time. Losing is the greatest incentive for correcting weakness & improvement. Ask any successful entrepreneur.
la limite de G dépend aussi du temps d'exposition. Un scientifique qui a étudié le premier la question (et d'on j'ai oublié le nom) a pris 40G pendant 2 secondes et s'en est sorti avec une cécité temporaire (moins d'une heure) et des bleus au niveau des ceintures de sécurité.
If an aircraft fires from a distance, this gives the target aircraft time to act to avoid the missile. Missiles do not win every time. In future combat, fighter planes will be accompanied by drones. In case of difficulties, and even in normal cases, there will always be a drone placed as a mask to take enemy fire. It will ALWAYS come down to close combat, except against low quality armies.
French and americans have tested the F-18 in the Charles de Gaulle carrier (approach, touch and go and landing) and viceversa with the Rafale in USS Enterprise. FACT: you don't expect your best air to air fighter to be shot down by a REAL omnirole aircraft, the Rafale A F3 and it happened. Excuses like the fuel tanks are ashaming, and I have not any doubt is that the USAF pilot did and gave its best (this is in the DNA of any fighter pilot).
The F-22 is air superiority, the Rafale is multi-role. There's no need to invent buzzwords to try and make it seem like the french invented something they didn't. The reason the F-22 was taken down is because during Red Flag, they test various engagements at short range because it's utterly pointless to have the F-22 just destroy anything in BVR engagements. Everyone knowing anything about aircraft and these training exercises would expect such a thing to happen, because it happens in US-only training too.
Thanks for the heads up. As a side note there was an expensive joke that happened with the superbug and Rafale though... Once during BFM training, and while a Rafale was on the 6 of a F-18, the Raffy sniffed up the superbug butt from a little too close, jammed its pitot tube, which provoked a fatal spin the Rafale wasn't able to get out of. And the plane being too low when this happened, it led to an ejection. So you can technically say a SH DID got a kill on a Rafale. Even if, if this had been for real, there would have been 2 parachutes and two downed planes. Since then french navy pilots have been briefed extensively on procedures to avoid these sort of very expensive pleasantries.
The context: in that specific joint training mission, the f22 previously has operated at it's true intent (beyond visual range attacks) and reliably beat the brittish and french to zero. After the training proved in-effective for that reason, the training was re-designed to make the f22 engage in dog fights, which simply isnt its purpose.
Bullshit you completely made up. No F22 ever shot a Rafale in exercises, the rest were draws. F22 was designed as air superiority and that includes dogfighting, otherwise what is the point of having thrust vectoring?
@@lordtemplar9274 Bullshit yourself. Air Forces Monthly had an article, "The Big Fight", about the Advanced Tactical Leadership Course (ATLC) in its April 2010 issue. The successive article (same issue), "Justifiably Proud!", was an interview with Lt. Col. Fabrice Grandclaudon, Commander of EC 1/7. "AFM: You apparently said 'the Rafale rubbed F-22 - the most modern fighter of the USAF. During six encounters the F-22 hit its goal only once'. The 27th FS doesn't remember the engagements that way and say the F-22 scored several victories against Rafale. Did you offer DACT to the Raptors and did they decline? *I did not say we 'rubbed them', I said that there was only one shot claimed (ie a simulated kill) for the six that were set-up. I read in a recent issue of Air et Cosmos that it was two. As far as I am concerned, one or two shots of six Basic Fighter Manoeuvres (BFM) encounters is a victory for the F-22 but not an overwhelming one. Not like the one we claimed against the Typhoons after combat in Solenzara, Corsica during September (9 set-up: 8 to 1 for the Rafale*). The other set-ups versus F-22s were terminated for combat deck, an un-decisive situation or lack of fuel. We never shot them down, but we hope to do so soon since we are quite good opposition for them, and it is in the pilot's spirit not to give up!* Like almost every nation, we offered Beyond Visual Range DACT, of course, but the F-22 was only authorized to do BFM 1v1 Within Visual Range (WVR) versus foreign countries (except the UK, with whom they did not fight even in the BFMs). I wish we could have done so, but we didn't - which bring me back to Air et Cosmos, where its information about BVR engagement with AMRAAM in stealth mode is wrong: besides the fact that we did not even fly BVR vs F-22s! *F-22 was fitted with some specific device to increase their radar signature.* It enabled us to have contact with them during work ups for example. But that's not the point here."
pas sur qu'on soit sur la même longueur d'onde, mais il me semble que l'accrochage avec un triangle représente un accrochage infrarouge, le carré un accrochage radar (double carré ???) et le rond qui n'est pas nécéssairement au mileur de l'écran représente le viseur canon (qui peut être a la traîne a cause des G en virage.)
Let us ALL not forget the Raptor had a 6 to1 kill and beyond visual range and a 3to1 kill at visual range at the Red Flag operation. Hands down it was the best performing fighter there.
I don't know where you found these results but it's impossible that it's against the Rafale, the Rafale participated only once at Red Flag and the F-22 was not present.
neage59 Probably he meant against other participating aircrafts. Against Typhoons, a German pilot remarked it have excellent BVR capabilities. However, once they managed to close in, they have a 50-50 chance against the Raptor.
If you talk about F-22 vs Rafale there were 6 dogfights (no radar, no missiles, only with gun). We know that the F-22 won once, we don't know for the others, maybe the Rafale won the 5 others, maybe 5 draws. We also know that the Americans tried to hide the truth many times. The first time by saying the F-22 didn't participate to the dogfights. The second time by saying the F-22 was piloted by a rookie, the problem is that the F-22 was here for an airshow, nobody sends a rookie pilot to do an airshow. The third time they said the F-22 had external fuel tanks, Dassault published the pictures of the OSF of the Rafale to prove the contrary. And now we have a video to prove the F-22 had difficulty against the Rafale.
Plus serieusement, on m'enlevera pas de l'idee que si les ricains ont presenté leur F22 pour faire joujou contre le Rafale aux EAU, c'est qu'ils etaient surs de gagner. J'ai rien vu, j'y connais rien , mais je peux te dire qu'en haut de l'echelle militaire americaine on a compris qu'on avait fait une belle boulette. Donc , ce genre de confrontation n'aura pas lieu de si tot je crois, que ce soit en dogfight ou en combat lointain. Mais tout ca n'est pas tres serieux.
EA-18G Growler, old F-16, Mirage 2000, even A-10 Warthog had victories over F-22, maybe they do it just for fun or maybe F-22 is not that good in dogfight? who knows.
You really think that the f22 is the best plane?! Let me laught! All i want (as a french) is the world and particularly USA to see that the Rafale is a beautiful plane made by a beautiful country! The f22 is very good but the rafale is one of the best. De can't say wich one is better
The Rafale has been tested by several countries including Canada and has been found wanting. As much as I dislike the Americans any number of their old planes from the F15 which is over 40 years old would beat the Rafale on odds, meaning that the score would read like a 20 to 1 odds. It is also the mind set of the person behind the plane and the French have failed in this regard since the first world war. At the beginning of the second world war the French had the best tanks and were soundly defeated by the Germans on the first day of invasion. In Indo-China stick wielding Vietnamese beat the crap out of the French units in the 1950's. In the Falklands war the Mirage III was beaten by the lowly Harrier jet hands down. Again they send their best units to Algeria and the French are hard pressed to keep their colonial holdings in line? Why do you suppose the French can only sell their planes to third world countries. In the long run, its about performance and what the aircraft can do in variety of situations. It s for this reason that the French are willing to try to convince Canada on the Rafale as a bargaining chip by offering to transfer technology, create jobs and share billions of dollars in business if Canada buys its Rafale fighter. Dassault Aviation said the "intellectual property" associated with the Rafale would be part of any sale, including the source codes for the fighter's computer system as well as the know-how to adapt and update the aircraft - both hardware and software - throughout its lifespan. Almost a similar offer was made to India who are considering 126 planes of which 108 would be made in India. If for any reason that Canada considers the Rafale would be simply to create jobs and not the performance of the plane. It is cheap by comparison to the oft overrated and overblown F35. Dassault's competitors include the F-35, the Boeing Super Hornet and the Eurofighter Typhoon. They all offer a certain amount of technology transfer, but Dassault hopes its broad offer will catch the government's attention. I would rather that Canada go with the Super Hornet by Boeing as it has done remarkably well in all the conflicts it has been used. Given the vast expanse of Canada, I doubt that the Rafale would stand the rigors of a Canadian arctic.
Ray McCallum un f-15 qui bat un rafale ! ha ha ha toi comique toi très drôle toi faire humour toi te renseigner américain jamais battu contre vraie armée occidentale (pilote russe france allemagne etc...) moi curieux du score réel (pas hollywood(ha ha)) même pas besoin d'argumenter
Well Mickael Prevost why would I need to see a specialist? I was merely stating a response to "a beautiful plane, a beautiful country" and the obvious is that the Rafale is one borne out of nationalist pride and not necessarily one that is better than any other plane. I stated a few facts about French history to suggest that it was not perfect and history will prove that any country who deems itself beautiful has blemishes that are not easily hidden. As for the Rafale, I suggested that it would likely fail the rigors of a Canadian north where if I might add the F18 has already proven itself as did the F15 in temperatures of -50 with wind chills even colder then that. My preference was the Super Hornet. Besides the Rafale is a very expensive plane and it would not likely see any major conflicts so why spend all that money. It remains to be seen whether or not the Canadian government will buy the Rafale. I also stated that the Rafale would only get the contract on the notion that it would create jobs of which Dassault's has promised and its willingness to hand over the technology. This had nothing to do with whether or not the plane was better and be a part of the Canadian air force as other planes had proven that were imminently qualified. By qualified, I mean the Super Hornet is already proven in the bone chilling cold of the Canadian Arctic and is less expensive. When I referred to 3rd world countries, I was referring to Dassault Aviation's attempt to sell to India, Brazil and the Gulf Arab countries and even those countries are hesitant at the moment. France's defence minister played down another sales failure for Dassault's Rafale fighter jet. Instead, Brazil had opted for Sweden's Saab Shares in Dassault Aviation's stock has fallen lately and French defense minister Jean-Yves le Drian has been trying desperately to sell the Rafale. The Euro fighter program that France broke away from is having better luck and is one of the ones Dassault competing against for large sales to Canada. In so saying, why should Canada buy and expensive plane from a company that is struggling at the moment. There are no guarantees that Dassault Aviation can be competitive and still maintain its holdings. Unless they sell to a major western country Dassault Aviation may go the way of a dodo bird and in France's eyes, Ce ne serait pas très agréable.
+RoboJesusChrist It was not at Red Flag, but at ATLC. At Red Flag 2008, there were no F-4 Phantom, there were F-15, F-16 and Su-30MKI, maybe Mirage 2000 too. For the F-4 Phantom who got 5 kills, you should know the Rafale was just entering in service in a squadron specialized on ground attacks (they piloted Mirage 2000D before having the Rafale). You should also know the German pilot who got the 5 kills (I don't remember his name but maybe you know) was an ex pilot of the French Air Force, he piloted a Mirage 2000C (specialized in air-air combat) before being in the Luftwaffe, you can even see a Mirage 2000 on his German uniform. So it's not surprising that the F-4 Phantom won against the Rafale.
the problem it's the americans don't accept to loose , and open your eyes the RAFALE is ONE BEST of the world too , NOT only the F22 , but don't worry we re allied and the F22 with RAFALE will make the best and dream team to protect us ,it's the objective why they built TO PROTECT US .
Stazzo82 LOL, so you're an expert at reading the HUD? Not even. Don't give me that crap. You'll notice prolonged periods where the F-22 is nowhere in sight, which is not a good thing for the Rafale. Plus the F-22 has shown even in WVR to be difficult to lock onto. Nor do we have the opportunity to see the F-22's HUD. This vid doesn't carry any weight w/o a fighter pilot's perspective that actually attended the exercise. You also fail to recognize the Rafale is flying clean. That wouldn't happen in a real battle. Once you add ordinance its performance is hindered. I'll trust the pilots and journal's commentary over your expert opinion any day.
Thetequilashooter1 You say that during the time F-22 isn't in Rafale's HUD it is on his 6 ? Nonsense. This video shows F-22 can't shake of Rafale from his tail, that's it. In a low speed dogfight smaller planes appear to be more explosive and more maneuverable to the larger ones. So we have Rafale, Typhoon, Grippen, even F-16, that can be a real pain in the ass for F-15, F-22, Su-27, Mig-29 in close range low speed dogfights. The question is, would F-22 ever enter that kind of a fight. Apparently not, all would be over in a BVR fight, with long range a-a missiles. I talked to Danish F-16 pilots who had trainings vs German MiGs-29. They say F-16 is better at altitudes under 3000m. Above that MiG keeps energy better cause of his 2 engines. But he said they also had training vs Su-27 (Ukraine I think) and Su-27 beats F-16 at all altitudes nevertheless it is MUCH larger figher. Newer fighters like Rafale, Typhoon and Grippen can handle all American fighters in a DF, that's the fact.
@@Lucifer-wz7uo La force d'apesanteur que tu ressens quand t'es debout ou assis dans ton fauteuil correspond a 1G (accélération de l'apesanteur) la le pilote quand il prend un virage il se fais "tasser" par l'énergie cinétique et il ressent 8 fois l'accélération de l'apesanteur (voir 9G parfois) En gros il se sent 8 fois plus lourd que d'habitude et en plus, tous le sang qu'il y a dans son corps descend dans les jambe donc il souffre et fini par tomber dans les pomme si ca dure trop longtemps
@@pilotedavion6716 Bjr, je sais.... ton msg date de deux ans mais "la force d'apesanteur" n'existe pas, du moins, c'est une absurdité puisque tout objet en apesanteur n'est soumis à aucune force. Désolé, je ne le dis pas méchamment mais 1g est correspond à l’accélération gravitationnelle terrestre et fluctue en fonction de la la latitude et de l'altitude et tourne autour de 9.8 m.s-2 (environ 36 km/h chaque seconde à notre latitude) . On la nomme : pesanteur et non pas "apesanteur" qui est justement l'inverse de la pesanteur. Cordialement
That's the reason why INDIANS are thinking to purchase rafale 200 in numbers. Indian airforce is fond of this beautiful aeroplane.indian navy also opted for rafale to f-35 for 57 navy fighers
C'est normal avec les ailes delta tu perds énormément du vitesse tu prends beaucoup de g mais la perte de vitesse permet de tourné beaucoup plus facile sur des bariks par exemple
the American was lucky...lucky enough if Malaysian don't show their training video with raptors...I heard that the Raptor having a hard time to dealing with the Malaysian Flankers during Cope Taufan exercise 2014
Rafale is very good at dogfight because it has very good turn angles comparing to the speed (i dont think im very clear there) and for the raptor i dont know much, but its a very cool aircraft. I love both of them
PS 2: This is not to say that the F-22 is not a superior aircraft. It is. But there's a prize on its head and a lot of competition heading its way (T50 PAK FA, J20, J31). So stay sharp USAF. Don't throw too much money down the F-35 drain (a pure bomb truck with great sensors and SA, but with the speed and maneuvrabilty of an oil tanker) and stay ahead in the air-air domain. That's where wars are won or lost.
I admit, the F-15's kill record has been heavily inflated, so instead look at actual capability. The F-15C has a 1.12 loaded TWR, SU-27SM2 1.03, SU-35 1.13. The F-15C and SU-35S are practically equal, while the SU-27 lags a bit. Wing loading (good proxie for maneuverability, lower number better) F-15C 358, SU-27SM2 371, SU-35S 408. The F-15 out turns both, especially the heavier 35. Both Sokhoi's have a better rate of clime, but a lower service ceiling. Speed, 27 M2.35, 35 2.25, F-15 M2.63.
Yeah that's how it sounds when you take 9 G bro'. But still, our Rafale killed 3 times you F22. Easy pizzi. I don't know if your pilots are not trained or if your aircrafts are overrated.
Y a t’il un endroit sur le HUD ou on peut voir les G encaissés par le pilote, on entend qu’il déguste et je serais curieux de savoir ce qu’il encaisse.
the vid above shows a rafale owning a raptor. the typhoon owned raptors; the gripen owned a raptor. heck, even an f5 owned a raptor. swallow your pride and get on with it, otherwise, even the raptor's replacement will have flaws.