Raising Monarchs - Pests & Predators (Help The Monarch Butterfly) 

Awesome! It's a rewarding experience!

@@MrLundScience I'm currently raising Cabbage Whites. Since the population is on a dealdy decline, I've dedicated my life to raising Cabbage Whites from larvae. So far I've released amour 500 butterflies yearly. I'm currently raising a new batch of caterpillars and I've counted 13 that have chrysilised.

Hey, now, that's pretty cool. 30 Monarchs is great! Good job!

MrLundScience Thanks! It's mainly my mother who started to take care of them. But then I took an interest and learned a lot from your videos on how to raise and take care of them. It helped a lot indeed!

@@superbrawlpikachufan seerd599

Yeah...earwigs. I hate to hate a species, but I can't stand these guys. Goes back to childhood days. Loved all the other insects I found and explored my backyard with, but these little dudes always creeped me out.

@@MrLundScience LMFAO! Flick the earwig and it'll just go do something else. Yeah it's called being dead.

@@MrLundScience I can't stand those little leaf miner flies 😡 Every milkweed plant I have in my backyard has at least 2 of them constantly laying their eggs / larvae on the leaves. Can't spray them, can't really kill them. I'll take those earwigs over these little pests.

That's quite the success story! I'm so pleased to hear that you've had such a plentiful season. Great job! So glad too that the videos could be helpful. Many thanks for checking them out.

You are as crazy as I am !

Very cool to have you involved! Late starts are still so beneficial, as you're helping the very important 4th generation. Not only have I had concerns about roadside milkweed, but I've really been noticing how many young plants sprout in the highway medians. Those are mowed down, encourage then new sprouts (which the Monarchs prefer) and are then usually mowed down again with less time in between mowings than the time needed to go from egg to adult. I think we're likely losing many Monarchs in these medians. Anyway, thanks for checking out the videos, and if you have questions, ask away. If I know the answer, I provide it, and if I don't, it's cool to find out a new question I then too will want to know the answer to!

Strong words, Nicole. They are appreciated. Thanks for "getting it". And thank you for doing what you can to help out the Monarchs! You're on the front lines!

Me too. I need to squish those aphids. I had one caterpillar with the fly larvae. Gross.

Very cool indeed! Yeah, definitely being in Texas, your season is now wrapping up. I hope there's still some nectar producing flowers for those migrating through your region. Perhaps this coming spring, these videos can be helpful!

Glad that you've dived in. And I definitely appreciate you checking out the past videos. I'm not a RU-vidr who cares about views and such nonsense. But when people are willing to see what info has already been put out, they tend to find they have fewer questions, which helps me out. (But definitely, nobody should ever feel timid about asking questions, even if they *have* been answered in other videos. There's soooo many videos now, I wouldn't expect someone to watch them all first.) Good luck with the rest of your season!

Thanks. Much appreciated. And thank you for showing an interest in helping them!

If I'm teaching, the only thanks needed is the willingness to learn, which you obviously have. Further, I'm a student too, and you guys teach me a lot. Thank you (and all else reading this) for the encouragement and reception of this. I had no idea when I started that so many would want to help out the Monarchs. So cool to see that there is truly such a widespread and diverse community!

Last year I raised eight. I'm on track for about 150 this year. My Dearborn Heights neighborhood has been the beneficiary of my efforts. Butterflies everywhere!

Next time I'm driving through Metro Detroit, if I see a Monarch, I'll go ahead and assume it was one of yours. I'll be like, "Thanks Sandy!"

I'm in Florida so we have a similar climate. Any luck? Any tips? I have very poor soil for Milkweed and I'm about to transplant what I've grown so far.

@@MrBoDiggety Pray.

Glad you found it useful! Thanks for the feedback, for sure.

Sounds like things are very productive. And yep, I find Monarch eggs often on brand new sprouts that are only a few inches. They seem to have no problem, and even prefer younger plants. Some say it's because the leaves are more tender and easier for the freshly hatched caterpillars to eat. Some hypothesize that it's due to new plants having less of a chance of pests already being on them, such as milkweed beetles, ant troopers, and the like.

I'm indeed still doing this. Hasn't been eight years, though. I raised my first ever Monarch in 2012. In 2013, I raised around twenty. Not totally sure on that number, as I wasn't taking data at that time yet. 2014, I would say, was my first "real" year of doing this, and trying to use my refined process, and show others what I was doing, and was also the year I made the first five Raising Monarchs videos. So, some might say I've done this for 7 years, but some could argue I've only "really" been doing it for 5 now. Either way, I have no plans to discontinue doing this, and as long as there's topics worthy of people's time, I'll still make videos. I'm not into the idea of making "filler" videos, or just putting out videos just to do so. I feel that if I'm making a video to be watched, it should have a legitimate reason for existing.

Most definitely. When you enjoy it, it definitely doesn't feel like work. Sometimes people think that being a chemist, I'd want to employ chemicals as the answer to these "pests". But, as a chemist, I think that's why I know to avoid them to prevent other potential risks/hazards.

Holly, thank you very much for this comment! I think you see what I was trying to get to in the video. Making a video that deals with *all* pests and predators that Monarchs and milkweed face would be a very daunting, difficult, and I think, futile task. Those raising Monarchs live in so many varied regions, and each area comes with its own set of pests/predators. Still, many over the years have asked for a video such as this one. So, the best I could do was make this, and with some goals in mind: 1) Show what my experience is, and what Michigan (or even just my area of Michigan) deals with. 2) Try and show that regardless of what predators your region might have, the *best* solution to them is to raise your eggs/caterpillars in controlled environments. 3) Try and advocate for some of these "pests" as also being part of our ecosystem, and, if not out of hand, worthy of respect as well. I don't know that everyone likes this take on it, but it's what I felt I could speak on. Some may have wanted a sure-fire way to deal with some of their specific pests, and I didn't offer it. And I might not have it because a sure-fire way to deal with them just might not exist. For raising of the Monarchs, the best solution is to take them indoors. For keeping the milkweed healthy, there just won't be a cure all. It seems that there's two less than ideal options. One is what I described, and that's to let nature do its thing for the most part. While they may be pests to the milkweed, they are also part of the ecosystem, and often aren't going to become out of control. In cases where they are (and I truly did speak to an MSU botanist about this) the most effective way to control them without chemicals is to physically thin the heard by hand. In other words, squishing them. In some other cases, though, people have described to me since the video being released that they have some pests on their milkweed that are just straight up out of control. In those situations, a chemical option (which is the second, non-ideal option) might be necessary, but I didn't want to speak on that in the video because I've never had to do that. I wouldn't want to talk in a video and give advice for something I myself haven't experienced. I think that'd be pretentious of me. As for the Milkweed Tiger Moth, (aka, Tussock Moth), I definitely leave them alone, mostly because I think they are adorable, but also, because they too are a species that depends upon the milkweed. So, if Monarchs are hurting due to lack of milkweed, how is the Tussock Moth doing? We notice, care, and study the Monarch because it's nostalgic, easily recognized by the public, and is known as the "Bambi" of the insect world. Who speaks for the Tussock Moth, though? Now, those caterpillars can REALLY eat through a milkweed plant or plants. They lay a huge number of eggs all in one spot, unlike the spot laying Monarch. So, of the 20-30 eggs, the strategy here is that hopefully *some* of the 20-30 will make it. One clutch of eggs could easily ruin several plants if they can get to them, which usually, they can. In those cases, one might want to just relocate some of them (or all of them) to other milkweed sources they know of. But if they don't know of any good, natural places to keep them, why not let them still do their thing? If that's the only milkweed you have, and Tussock Moths have taken it over, hey, why not raise *them* for a season? (Perhaps *that* is a species I should show a video on how to take care of, too...) It's still a rewarding experience, and they'll actually stay in the cocoon they build throughout the winter, and come out in the spring. It's a cool species! Thanks again for the comment and the kind words. They were very much appreciated!

Thank you so much for this thoughtful and extremely helpful response! That is what I was leaning towards, and now you have eloquently expressed great reasons for it.

Well hey...thanks. I appreciate the kind words.

You're definitely welcome!

Glad that it was enjoyed. Thank you!

You're very welcome. Sorry that this occurred.

Certainly okay to use my first name. Glad you enjoyed the video! As for the aphids, thanks for bringing this up. It's something, honestly, I've read maybe three times, but then when on camera, "lay eggs" just slipped out. Too late to edit now! But, it turns out, we're both right, though you are more correct than I. Looking further into this, *most* aphids reproduce with a live birth method, but also, *most* aphids can also lay fertilized eggs. This source was pretty cool, discussing it: influentialpoints.com/aphid/Aphid-eggs_biology_morphology.htm Great idea with the milkweed bug prevention!

And it doesn't get old, does it? Thank you for taking the time and effort to help them out!

@@MrLundScience It really doesn't! They're such sweet little critters!

Greetings Jeanne! Welcome aboard! It's a great idea to do what you've done, and the first time through, deal with a reasonable number. 10, I'd say, is a good number to start with. It can help you gauge for the future if you could easily do more the next year, or if that number was enough. And, it probably goes without saying, but one of the most important things to remember when first starting is to make sure you don't take in more than you can feed. Sometimes people start out, and go out egg hunting, coming home with 30+ eggs, and aren't yet understanding just how much milkweed that will eventually take to raise them. Again, 10 is a great, reasonable number. Good luck, and ask questions as they come up!

Very welcome! Glad it could help.

I am sad that nobody responded to your cry for help. xoxo :(

It never gets old, either, from my point of view.

@@MrLundScience First , thank you for all your very helpful videos. I successfully hatched and "launched" 15 monarchs this past summer. It was my first time, and I'm hooked! I would like to try again next summer with even more, I would also like to raise them outside in a protective environment, any tips?

@@franceshendry5656 I have a video that shows one example of outdoor rearing. I hope it helps in a way and provides ideas/tips: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LjEgU0Ub5hY.html

As they need the plant too, we shouldn't treat the Monarchs as the only insect that has a right to it. Plus, the milkweed beetle's coloration helps to teach birds to stay away from the black and orange/red. When birds eat these guys and then spit them out in disgust, they are helping to educate the birds to stay away from those colors/patterns.

You're very welcome. Thank you for having an interest in the Monarch's well being!

I have some students who really like me because I challenge them to think and hold them to high standards. I have some students who really don't like me, though, because I challenge them to think and hold them to high standards. Just part of the teacher game, I suppose. *Can* you raise the two different species in the same cage? I suppose it's possible, and I'd predict as long as they aren't over crowded and have their own food sources, they likely wouldn't pose each other a problem. Even so, I would still advise against it. If for no other reason, mostly because since they are eating different foods and have a different physiology, it's possible that one might have a type of bacteria in its feces that the other species isn't as ready for its immune system to battle. Like going to a different country and drinking the water there that those who live there are just fine with. What bacteria a species can easily handle, or find trouble with can be different. I don't know this to be a fact with Monarchs and Swallowtails, but since it's a possibility, that's why I wouldn't try it out, just to be safe. Hope that helps!

This was definitely a challenging video to make, I'll admit. Many have been asking for my take on pests & predators and what I do about them. Thing is, there's so many different ones and it's also diverse from region to region. I know that a video could have been made that covers some of the worst, but I don't think that's something I was qualified to do, for I wouldn't want to advise people on how to deal with something I've never dealt with. Crab Spiders, for example, I don't even know if they are in Michigan. If they are, I've never had to deal with them. The conclusion that I was hoping would be understood by the end of the video, though, is that regardless of the predators, taking the eggs inside and raising them in controlled environments is the best way to prevent them from harming your flock. It eliminates the problem. Still, that doesn't always do much as far as helping out the milkweed and what pests might do to your food source. But, I think it's going to be a rough ride when people try to keep the cats in nature, even if it is the back yard. Ants are everywhere, nature is cruel...it's just a tough world out there. So, I hope it gives voice to the idea of taking them inside. Thanks for checking it out, and for the feedback, David!

Ummmm wearing black is the best for heat in case you’ve never experienced it 🤷🏽‍♀️

Haven't heard that one yet, and had to look him up (sorry), but yeah, I suppose I see it to some degree. When I was 16, that's when people started giving me the, "You look like a younger Henry Rollins". I didn't know who Henry was at the time (more into nature than music growing up) but checked him out and liked his music. Then, read his books and LOVED them. Since then, I think him and I have aged along different paths and don't exactly resemble each other as much, but the time I met him, he saw the resemblance. Jeff Hardy has some cool face paint!

Greetings! If concerned about chrysalis needs, what about just a square of wooden fence? Like, the criss cross, inexpensive type? Just an idea. They don't need anything severely stable, so a butterfly bush, once mature, could do wonders. Thinking long term, I'd plant that, as it can serve multiple purposes around your milkweed. Both a chrysalis supporter, but a Monarch attracting flower at the same time.

Greetings Jim (and daughter)! Welcome aboard! I have never dealt with tachinid flies, and honestly, went a few years of doing this without even knowing they existed, or posed problems to Monarchs. It is about 90% due to my procedure, and 10% luck. I say 90% because most of the Monarchs I raise come from eggs that were laid in nature, and since I take them in as an egg and rear them from there, the tachinid fly never has a chance to encounter them as a caterpillar (or at all) and inject eggs into them. The other 10% of luck would be due to the caterpillars that I do sometimes find and take in. I try to keep those caterpillars separated from the rest, not for fear of infecting others, but in case a tachinid fly did get to it, I'll be able to notice that it came from that one, and will likely make a video about it. (Once tachinid eggs are laid in the caterpillar, they can't infect other caterpillars, but also, there's nothing really you can do. The tachinid larva will emerge, and it's fatal to the Monarch.) So, the surefire way to avoid them in the future is to take in the eggs and rear them in controlled environments, which really just means, containers that you keep tachinids from getting into. Because of the ventilation in my containers, I don't even leave them outdoors on my screened in porch, but keep them inside. This is an amazingly rewarding hobby, so I hope you have some great experiences with it. And so cool that you've got your daughter experiencing it with you!

THANK YOU for the Latin sympathy! I'm often embarrassed that I don't know it better, and it REALLY shows in my Herp Quest vids! That said, oh yes, I have a plethora of OE vids... Overview of what OE is: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kkZTfeFVMiE.html (Please excuse the times I said "bacteria" in this video. The annoying part is I *knew* it wasn't bacteria each time I said it. I know it's a parasite, and a non-bacterial one. But during the filming, my brain just got stuck with that word at the tip of my tongue.) How to test for OE: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pxXkAL1h2pw.html A different, more affordable way to test for OE: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-32IqyxjOUfM.html How to prevent OE (and other nasties): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oZYzzcGiZRA.html Bleach treating leaves: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2FE9646Z9xs.html What experts have to say about whether OE infested adults should be released or euthanized: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5WEewtof3w8.html How to euthanize, should you find yourself in a situation that calls for it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sLfPc9mlh14.html I hope that helps!

Thanks. I'll do my best.

@@MrLundScience i have tons of milkweed in my yard i have two caterpillars and another one in its cresols

Good looking? I don't know. From editing, I know if you pause the video when I'm talking, I can have quite the hilarious, awkward face!

I have not experienced this, but also, I have the benefit of a screened in porch where I relocate each chrysalis. One possibility is to have an outdoor pop up tent that you reserve just for the chrysalides and emerging adults. I show such a situation here, in "Outdoor Rearing" - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LjEgU0Ub5hY.html I hope that helps!

Nature is both beautiful, and cruel, in seemingly equal amounts, and sometimes, at the same time. We learn as we go, though, and each year develops improvements for the next year. Good luck!

Definitely welcome. Thanks for checking it out!

Yeah, they eat plenty. They are a really cool animal. They have some cool adaptations. The Monarch has its coloration to warn off predators of the poison it has from the milkweed. The orange and black, right? Well, the Tussock Moth caterpillars use the same coloration for the same warning. But, once a moth, coloration won't mean squat because these guys are nocturnal. All of it's predators are out at night, as is it, and no colors are really seen. So, the Tussock Moth is essentially all white, but here's the cool part: To warn off predators, it doesn't rely on coloration, but on sound! It actually makes a clicking noise when it flies around to warn predators about its bad taste! I love the Tussock Moth for this.

In my patch the Tussock Moth prefer the Swamp Milkweed, which is fine, since the Monarch prefer the Common Milkweed. There are very cool to watch grow.

Greetings Mrs. Trail. It's certainly an honor to have a comment from you, for sure! I had not seen that cover of National Geographic, but was able to find it here:www.flightofthebutterflies.com/discovery-story/ I reciprocate the appreciation for appreciating education I'm attempting to provide. I'm a science teacher trying to do what I can to hopefully help their declining numbers. It was definitely a startle, then, to read that you felt excessive handing is occurring. As your opinion is most definitely one worthy of respect, I would be further humbled if you were able to go a bit more into detail as to why you feel this way. Which aspects of the process that I've shown in videos do you feel is excessive? Are you saying that people should not attempt to help an egg reach the adult stage if responsible, sanitary conditions are maintained? If that is the case, can you explain as to why? I'm a genuine guy, only trying to genuinely help. Knowing from studies that have estimated an egg's chance of making it to a mature adult is about 10% in the wild, I have assumed that if through a raising process one is able to be consistently above 10%, that this would only be a benefit to the population, assuming that responsibility and care is taken to produce only healthy Monarchs. Do you feel that this is not the case? I just want to also say that since online comments remove the emotional context of what is being said, definitely these questions are truly heartfelt and honest. If anything, I'm quite excited, and in a way, a bit star struck that you would stumble upon these videos and provide a comment. I'm very curious to hear and understand your point of view, as I've been in touch with various Monarch entomologists and ecologists who are aware of what we are doing, and have not expressed concern, assuming that the Monarchs are reared in sanitary conditions, healthy, and disease free. I'd love to see a more full picture as to what other opinions are out there. I appreciate any time you can give to this and advice that you have to offer. Many thanks! - Rich Lund

@@MrLundScience And I enjoyed reading the article today. Love the internet. Love you!

As I understand it (and my gardening knowledge is just barely above amateur), that should work fine. If they're getting the sunlight and nutrients they need and are at a reasonable temperature, they'd be a fine house plant. Good luck!

Yeah, if I could wave a magic wand to make all tachinids go away...I wouldn't. The animal doesn't choose to be what it is when it comes out of the egg. It's just a tachinid fly trying to be the very best tachinid fly it can be. If they are in the way of what I'm trying to do, like grow healthy milkweed or raise healthy Monarchs, I don't like them, but I still find myself respecting them. As for deleting your comment, hey, it's your comment. People can do as they please with it. No problem at all.

Glad that these were helpful. Good luck with your project!

Hey thanks. Much appreciated!

no problem I just subbed

Hmm...did I say that? I'd have to go through and review all the vids, and that's plenty to watch these days. I could have said that, but I don't think I said that. What I *might* have said (and I could be wrong) is the idea of not counting 5th instars towards my data of Monarchs I've raised. I'm still willing to take in later instars, as they do still have a higher probability of survival with me than in nature. That's been true since I've been doing this, so I think that's why I didn't say that I don't take them in. Well, that, and that I do take them in. So, I *think* I said that I don't count 5th instars towards my data as having taken them in, and then successful release. After all, if it made it to the 5th instar, it jumped many difficult hurdles without my help, and I don't think I should count any success it has towards my overall data. It did most of that survival on its own, and I wouldn't want to bias my data and make it look like I did a better job than I really did. Does that make sense?

Yes, makes total sense! And I have been wracking my memory trying to figure out where I heard or read that. I have been leaning more towards it not being you where I got that impression. Thank you so much for replying & for all you do! 😊

Greetings Bev. Sorry to hear that you've lost five recently. I want to help, but not sure how to. Just like you, I have not heard of gnats causing caterpillars problems before, and I don't know of any that do. Doesn't mean that they couldn't be, but I don't find any site discussing a type of gnat that harms caterpillars. I would also suspect that if they did harm them, they would harm them at any instar, and thus, when the caterpillars are much smaller and more vulnerable, I would think an attacking gnat would take them out at those earlier stages, not at a later stage. This leans me towards thinking that it's not the gnats, and might be something else. Do they maintain an appetite up until it's time to go into chrysalis? Because this sounds more like a type of infection. It's good that you are cleaning the leaves, but let me ask, are you bleach treating the leaves? Water can help rinse off many pesticides, but if any are oil based, the water won't fully do it. Some pesticides have oil components so that they can survive one or two rains. If bleach treating isn't happening (and I'm not saying it's something that must be done) then certain pesticides, NPV, or bacterial infections are still a possibility. If the caterpillars aren't turning black, it's not likely to be NPV. More likely, a bacterial infection of some sort. Further, if this happened to five around the same time, and they were at the same stage in the life cycle, this too suggests a small outbreak where all five were exposed to the source at the same time. Some questions that might help: Have you had success with others this season prior to these five, and during that time, were the gnats present? If so, it's not likely the gnats, as they should have had a similar effect on the previous ones. Also, have you had successful once since these five, and by successful, I would say, more successful than these five, and making it to the chrysalis stage? If so, and the gnats have been there the whole time, I think this also leads towards it not being the gnats.

did you mist your eggs so they dont dry out? I am in No Cal...

I'm mostly a live and let live kind of guy. But what you are describing is exactly why I will not tolerate aphids, and squash them when I can. They attract ants, and yes, ants can deter other predators, such as lady bugs. However, just like one burglar scaring off another ("Back off man, this house is my mark..."), the original burglar remains and the damage will be done. Ants have no problem munching down an egg (or taking it back to the colony for others to munch on), and if the caterpillar is small enough, they too can be a nice piece of protein, which queen ants are always in need of. I wish you luck with the boric acid mixture, but ants are tenacious. If I were you, I'd focus on removing the aphids. That's the root of the issue. Good luck!

@@MrLundScience I will continue to work on the ants, but you are right about the aphids. I spray neem oil/soap on my garden to discourage certain problems, but fear using it around the milkweed. Too many things I do not want to harm!

@@MrLundScience I do not have an aphid problem. I have encouraged natural predators by NOT using any chemicals for years in the garden, but the darn black ants are a real problem! I am kinda shutting down for the year as things are so quiet here. Saw lots of monarch butterflies at a friends garden, and a county park, but that was the only sunny day for awhile. I will check today, but not much activity here. Asters are starting to bloom, and I will have more monarch friendly blooms next year!

Greetings Christine. Sorry that I was a bit tied up for the last couple of days. Have you watched Raising Monarchs Parts 1 - 5? They are the core of the series that will likely answer many questions you have, or don't even know you have yet. Those 5 show my entire process from start to finish. The one that shows how I care for the caterpillars specifically, is Part 3. As you stated that your Monarchs are eating plant material, I assume you meant larva (caterpillar) instead of pupa (chrysalis). Here's Part 3: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sJU8-FpGI78.html

Excellent idea for a video. It was actually on the list as a potential one for this coming season. As for the symptoms your Monarchs are having, I have seen it before, but there are a number of things that can cause it. It's likely bacterial infection of some type. While it might not be NPV (unless they are turning a bit black) I would recommend the NPV Prevention video I made (or any other parasite/bacterial/viral prevention source out there). The prevention tends to be the same for all of these: 5% bleach solution. Check the vid "NPV Prevention" and that should hopefully help.

Thank you MrLund. Your videos have taught me more than the many hours of research I've done & any other group I've joined!! I didn't know about your NPV video. I appreciate your help. I realise, after watching your informative video, that this was my issue :(

That's good to hear. But keep in mind, it might not be NPV. I made the video due partially to my cats having an outbreak of something, but I didn't know 100% what that something was. It was a good opportunity to make the NPV video at the time, as far as how to prevent for it. The more I looked at the situation, though, as none of my cats turned black, I'm less inclined to diagnose it as NPV, but as some other type of likely bacterial infection. Still, the bleach treatment shown in that video can prevent both NPV and occasional bacteria outbreaks. So, if yours had similar symptoms to what I was showing, but didn't turn a bit (or a lot) black by the time they passed, it likely wasn't NPV, but a type of bacteria. Either way, bleach treatment of the leaves (and a *very thorough rinsing afterwards*) has prevented any of this from happening to me again.

Thanks so much! Appreciate your time :)

Before I knew much about just how many predators and parasites were out there, I was already collecting Monarchs primarily as eggs and taking them into containers. I've continued since, and in those years, have never had a tachinid fly experience. I understand, not everyone has the amount of time it requires to raise them from eggs, but if we wish to make tachinid flies a moot issue, I think that it's the only way to go.

If you can, look up "Tussock Moth Caterpillars" and see if those are the missing culprits. They are also a pretty amazing critters too. Once they are ready, they don't make a chrysalis, but go to the ground and form a cocoon using their own silk and whatever available debris is nearby. So, I'd search for what look like little bally things near whatever ground surface is in your conservatory. If you do find them, they usually need a good two weeks at frozen temperatures (though can be frozen for longer) and then brought out to thaw in the spring. They then emerge that spring as a white moth. They too need milkweed in the caterpillar stage, so, likely are suffering similar plights from the decline of milkweed.

You're very welcome.

To my knowledge, OE spores don't pass in the frass (hey, that rhymes!) but it would be worth looking at and checking. Thing is, I don't really have OE to really look at. It's not that prevalent around Michigan, and since I bleach treat eggs and leaves, it's become a non-issue. Have you seen the bleach treating videos? It's a great way to prevent OE from coming up in the first place.

Yeah, i watched it. And great info. And thanks for the reply. Great answer especially the fact their little OE being found... I'm learning biggest OE issues are from certain milkweed that isn't native in the US and Canada area mostly

The milkweed is Common Milkweed, Asclepias syriaca. As for the tachinid flies, as mentioned in this video, once the caterpillar is infected, not much can really be done. The fly larva will continue to grow, and it will be fatal to the caterpillar when the maggots emerge, either when the Monarch is still a caterpillar or when it has become a chrysalis. The only real way to avoid this is to have the Monarch from when it is an egg, and then keep it in an environment where the tachinid flies can not have access to it. The flies lay eggs within the Monarch when it is a caterpillar. That's also the overall theme of the video. I was trying to make a video where, no matter what the predator or parasite is of the Monarch, no matter what region you're in, the best way to handle most of this is to raise your Monarchs in containers that you control, so "nature" can't get to them any longer. Good luck, and thank you for your efforts!