Rating an Alternate Weapon Teams Doomstack 

"Rattling guns would've shot by now" "Rattling guns wouldve killed thorgrim about now" "Rattling guns can- " Jeez I feel like I'm back at home being compared to all my cousins doing things in life

Wouldn't you have to give them an extra point for more friendly fire yes-yes?

“They’ll do way more friendly fire than Ratling Guns and Jezzailes” Is that a problem? I thought that was one of army’s features

I like how auto resolve was like: 30to60% for you Oh you added 5 more menace from below? make it 60to90% Oh you remove the 5 you just added? 50to80% LOGIC

It's actually impressive how they come in tightened formations towards legend, for me even when I try and bait them with a Lord they come in the longest line formation known to mankind

I think the biggest point on this army is that it will still attack the enemy even if there are friendlies in the way. You use the Plague Priests to summon disposable units to block the enemy and let the Bombardiers and Globadiers shred them. Not like its "better" than Ratling Guns and Jezzails, but simply a different way to fight. Another point that comes to mind is that you can be more aggressive in moving them around since they dont require perfect terrain to work properly.

I'm just gonna come right out and say it: Mortars are my favourite weapon teams.

That is a lot of indirect fire. This Doomstack looks like it is like it is a lot less annoying to use on maps with a lot of hills that would obstruct the LOS of gun units.

The self control needed to not nuke that giant blob as they were walking up..

The damage mortars do to infantry is just insane.

Death Globes are an underrated skaven unit. I put one or two in all my weapon team armies because they decimate big packs of units. The Death Globe Mortar RoR is probably my favorite unit in the game.

Probably my favorite thing about the Ikit campaign is the fact that the mortar team upgrade for the DoT affects the RoR, which normally sacrifices the DoT in favor of more AoE damage. Upgrading the mortar team DoT in the workshop means the RoR version gets to have its cake and eat it too.

11:33 that unit in the left corner just getting shredded in less than a second.

The way the balance of power jumped with the extra menace belows threw me for a loop honestly

i mean this army would be GREAT in sieges, the throwing arc vs walls was always worth it to me to keep 1 or 2 deathglobes in my armies.

Dude that thing where he selected multiple different units holding ALT means thats how they will make formation, i am blown away i never knew u could do that

It may have less range but it is better on awkward maps with line of sight issues (maps with hills)

I haven't finished the video yet but I imagine this might be better for sieges as they can volley the globes up on the walls instead of trying to make holes for gunners to shoot through

This army does have some distinct advantages though, for one it's Magical bonus vs large AOE and ignores missile parry chance, so against a lot of cavalry units in the game (Dragon Princes, Bretonnian Cavalry, Doomfire warlocks etc.) you will very large amounts of use out of them. Secondly they are decent melee combatants(with the forbidden workshop upgrade), so worst case scenario if cavalry gets to close, they can hold the line for a decent amount of time . Finally they do knockdown entities as well which causes them to slowdown advancing units at a greater rate than would be expected.

Kill-slay beard-things yes yes!

13:17 poison wind mortars, the key damage-dealing element of this army are DLC unit

I will admit this would work on hill maps where rattling guns would have problems

Adding some warp lightning cannons to the army might help against single entities.

Nice video. My interpretation, as far as I can see, is that they are as effective against armies as ratlinguns, but I think their advantage in this battle is that dwarves have non-fast units. Because, for example, if there was a Bretonian cavalry unit, they would have crushed those units instead of Thorgrim. They would be 100% effective against vampire counts, vampire coast, Norsca, and dwarves, as well. But I don't think they can defeat wood elves, dark elves, or high elves or chaos warriors (especially chaos cavalry) with these ranged units. I think they are effective against lizarmen, but their ranged units, especially salamanders, crush these rats, so they are head-to-head. I do not know if they can defeat the tomb kings, because their units are fast, so they have a good chance of attack, such as ushabtis, scorpions.

I like to go with 2 poison wind mortars too because they dish more damage than a ratling gun during a siege and because of their range they are versatile. Another alternative weapon team would be adding one or two warpstone grinder instead of plague priest. Their quake ability slows cavalry in battlefield and they can create unlimited breaches in sieges, allowing gutling guns and jezz to shoot.

0:34 auto resolve: 1 menace below 50%, 2 menace below OK YOU WILL WIN FOR SURE!

GAS GAS GAS, GOTTA STEP-TREAD ON THE GAS, TONIGHT ITS RIGHT, TO BE THE WIN-WINNER! YES YES!

Having just watched the 15 part Ikit campaign (go Vecteek!) one thing that stands out to me about this stack is that it folded the Dawi like lawn chairs at the end. I don't recall a lot of weapons team battles ending like that, where everyone just gives up. The regular stack had to gun them all down, sometimes to the very last beard.

I think this kind of army would benefit greatly from warpfire throwers. Also, if you build a dlc free army than you should also switch the mortars to more plagueclaw or warp cannons.

Skrye bombadiers/globadiers have an advantage that other weapons teams don't, they can actually survive being rushed with melee due to their attack and they get fear/terror with the workshop upgrades. You can essentially treat them as the real frontline troops of Clan Skrye. On bumpy/hilly maps, they can out perform ratling guns and jezzails since they don't need line of sight.

How did you zoom? As a doomstack this is OK, only one casualty means it's not terrible, but yeah... Jezzails and Ratling Guns would have got the job done so much easier.

I think mortars are underrated I have higher numbers in my stacks, sometimes as many as 4.

It's weird how warp gas throwers are wearing gas masks but still poison eachother

Only advantage I can see is it's not got as many annoying line of sight issues than the regular weapons team doomstack so would work better on maps that the ratling gun teams struggle with.

All that damage on the globadiers was mostly friendly fire dude!

Legend: the problem is they will do way more friendly fire... Skaven: and how is that a problem?

over all I agree with your opinion on this doom stack legend. I think its a fun idea but no where near as good as an actual weapon team doom stack. Its strong but the large problem comes back to what you mentioned which is range. The army probably benefits more from having a grey seer of plague as like normal weapon team doom stacks because those weapons ( least from what I can see ) are not actually doing poison damage for the main damager, which is the death globes but out side the long mortars and plague claws, so they would greatly benefit from bless with filth spell. The master engineer is not a bad choice because it can go out in a decently speedy manner to distract the enemies but in the end this really comes down to preferences cause you can always use the plague priests to provide the bless with filth instead but grey seer gives a bit more crowd control where that can be vital for a weapons team army. 7 out of 10 is about around what I'd give it but I might say 7.5 only because the army wasnt fully leveled up from what we saw in the video. They had the most important things there already but having those extra levels would definitely be nice as well. In the end this army is nice against dwarves but otherwise I see this as more a fun stack then a doom stack but the army has potential it just might take some minor tweaks to optimize it. Thats just my thoughts as another skaven player but felt like sharing them cause I do enjoy seeing new ideas being used for skaven.

One point you did not cover in favor of this stack are Chokebattles and large Siegebattles (attacking and defending). Ratlings and jezzails are a pain to use in sieges, often you dont need them bc the artillery+ magic kills everything on its own. I can see sweetspots in large sieges where this stack is slightly better/easier to use. The friendly fire is irrelevant if we talk about vermindite clanrats. But the normal weaponsteam is, no doubt, still the better alrounder. Keep up the good content legend :D

How is this army supposed to handle single entities, monsters? What is fulfilling the function of the jezzails?

Globa/bombardiers work the best as a second firing line. I personally put one globadier unit behind one warpfire thrower on my flanks in otherwise normal weapons team stack. Anything trying to flank usually melts in seconds since the burst damage is extremely high on top of armor-piercing, anti-large and fire attack.

That blob in the back at 10:10 would have been perfect for a doom rocket, too bad he said he wasn't going to use it.

Isn`t this Army way less dependand on the terrain though? Since they can shoot in arcs?

Why noy remove the poisoned wind bombardiers and get three jezzails, that would be good for lords

Friendly fire in a skaven army is not a bug but a feature

+can we get a weapons team doomstack? -we have weapons team doomstack at home the weapons team at home:

The only reason I could imagine using a variation of this army myself would be a specialized siege army for the scaven. Sieging well defended settlements as scaven can be a real chore at times so having a siege breaker army might be fun. But in a field battle its inferior in every single way to a regular scaven stack, even against dwarves and especially against any sort of high mobility roster.

The artillery and big balls can be used for range units, while small balls can be used for infrantry.

I love poison wind mortars! They are really quite good in a Ikit Claw campaign. IDK how good they are without the workshop upgrades though. Random lord + Skavenslaves filler + 3 poison wind mortars were enough to defend against any infantry heavy army that attacked me. They also make siege battles pretty entertaining. You can just sit back and relax while the mortars shell the entire city. Being mortars and all they really don't care about walls. Plus the AI is too dumb to come outside. So many battles they would just sit AFK with flying cav on the capture point. The RoR version, the one with purple balls is absolutely bonkers too.

hey legend. i just won a vh/vh norsca campaign (wulfric), that shit was painful af. mammoth doomstacks are crazy

If you want range you need to go 7 ratling and 8 mortars with 1 Jezzail for taking out lords and 3 warlock engineers to boost damage, speed, ammo, range & leadership. Put them under any lords with missle team boosts set to max. It will melt ANYTHING that comes into range

I build an army with Death Globes/Jezzails/Warp Lightning Cannons as an alternate doomstack sometimes, and find that works very well. The Death Globes are absolute blenders to infantry but you really do need support against single entities (or fast stuff not playing Dwarfs). They also hold up pretty well in melee, especially compared to Ratling Guns. I wouldn't say it's quite as good as the standard Weapons Team stack, Ratling Guns are too good, especially with infite ammo, but it certainly works nicely if you want a bit of variety.

I agree that this alternate weapon stack is less effective, still fun to see that people make it work. Could summon the vermintide behind the charging units, to minimize friendly fire, but that will take some practise to time it right and might be difficult with multiple units charging in at the same time.

Did kinda like this before Ikit DLC came out, but I took warpfire thrower instead of the poison globadier and doomwheels instead of the mortars. Then used the poison spell for slowdown.

He does have Ratling Gun and Jezzail armies too so he probably just got bored of winning every single battle the exact same way with every single army.

I'm not sure you needed the vermintides, both poison and death globadiers can hold up in melee pretty well even before the workshop's improvements (which boost their melee stats even further), Which means that unlike Rattlings and Jezzails, it's not game over if they engage in melee. I'm pretty sure they are even capable of doing frontline duties with what they got and even moreso with their Skryer upgrades.

It's funny, as much as I love Legend's enthusiasm for Ratling guns and Jezzails, I never use ratling guns and only use 2 - 3 jessails(for sniping things). The second that there is any variance in terrain, an enemy flanking you as a result of that variance, or a siege batttle, the ratling guns and jezzails are useless. They are fearsomely powerful in desert settings or badlands settings, but they are too conditional. My armies are usually blobs of warpfire throwers or warp grinders(highly under-rated) and mortars; along with hero units.

Me: Mom can we have a skaven doomstack? Mom: We have a skaven doomstack. Skaven doomstack at home:

i feel like dumping the poison globadiers for 2 more death winds and one more mortar would be fine death winds are crazy strong, that first volley into any healthy squad is SO good to see this army would cry at the sight of any monsters though

Legend after checking damage and realizing that Mortars did the most damage > You don't need mortars in a field battle Problem with these ...diers is range - buffed ratling guns outrage almost every archer in the game, Jazzails outrange even some artillery I tried to use Bombardiers mixed in between ratling Guns but they get 0 kills in 90% of battles because enemy gets shredded by Guns and Jazzails

Seems like the kind of army that would work better with chieftans to hold the line instead of Plague Priests. And then you also have some units that can deal with single entities on their own. Really feels like a waste of winds to summon a unit that gets crushed by friendly fire almost immediately when you could be using those winds to just do more damage or buff the mortars with slow to stagger the whole army more.

does faction ability are included as a doomstack?, because you say "normal weapons team doomstack can easly destroy this as long as we destroy the artillery with menace below"

I always include poisoned wind mortars in my armies as clan skryre. The only armies I find they aren't as effective against are Lizardmen and monsters.

One point about this doomstack that I feel might be an advantage over the ratling/jazz doomstack is it doesn’t require as much direct line of sight. So you’d be less likely to get fucked over by shitty terrain. But all in all, I agree that the ”normal” one is better. Just nice to see some variation.

I personally use something like this from time to time, although i switch the catapults in favor of the lightning cannons-they give a decent degree of ranged anti-large and anti-lord firepower that is mostly enough to deal with 2 armies at once. Plague priests/packmasters are mandatory in this scenario, and it may also include 2 warp grinders-they are an extremely underrated unit that can deal 20-30k damage per battle and can stop the enemy dead in its tracks for a while-enough for the glowbadiers to shoot them to kingdom come. This does require micro, but on maps with uneven terrain it simply MELTS armies it has no right to. Especially useful in coop play, where the grinders and cannons can be controlled by another player to relieve you of the intensive micro. Is it better than ratling guns/jezzails? In certain cituations-yes. In sieges especially . Glowbadiers are vastly superior to jezzails/ratling guns in siege battles.

if you want to run this type of army, I recommend getting the Clan Vrrtkin mod. Clan Vrrtkin is a sub-clan of Skryre that specializes in poisonwind globadiers and mortars, and so the mod makes those units slightly more viable. They still have the rather large range issue, but the mod does gives them several rather nice buffs.

Everybody says "ratling guns can do that" or "ratling guns can handle this". But no one asks how ratling guns are :(

Certainly an alternative. I do prefer ratlings and jezzals though

Plagueclaw catapults: kill dwarf thing-things in unison yes-yes?

When you play as clan moulder you can provide stalk and extra speed to your units bc of mutations, in that case they can be way more deadly.

feel like this could struggle with cavalry (which I can ignore because he said it's targeted at Dwarves) or flyers which is more serious since gyrobombers and copters are a thing. it'd be good in hilly terrain and sieges though.

I generally find that 2x Poison Winds can easily both make their value in pretty much every kind of battle. The second PWM is more valuable than the fourth Plagueclaw. I wouldn't go over 2 though.

The love u give to the skaven, u are surely a mutated rat. Yes-yes. Horned-legend rat. Love them skaven battle /stacks. Keep the good work. Yes-yes.

i feel like this is good for if you dont have the DLC, that might be why they did this, cause Rattling guns are a DLC unit

Was that army buffed from the workshop? Because it would be worse than that if you don’t own the dlc (the only reason you would make the army) so without those it might not be even viable

Death globadiers are foking glass cannon in multiplayer - they literally DELETE enemy infantry in seconds, but they soooo vulnerable and requires a really good opportunities to deal their job(( But if the stars start shooting, globadiers are ultra OP))

"They're not great at killing single entities" Melts Thorgrim in seconds. I'd say speed wise that was pretty comparable to how fast a regular weapons team would have done it

This army would have been *shredded* by a primarily ranged army, like wood/high elves.

At around 10:00 an 10:50 you pop a Menace Below, how do you zoom like that?

Putting stalk on with throt (or if skryre could) would help give them an edge over ranged units.

the one big advantage i see with this compared to ratlinguns is that the dont need perfectly flat terrain to properly shoot

seems to me like the biggest advantage for this doomstack is it isnt reliant on terrain like rattling/jezail stack is

Death Globe Bombardiers are pretty good. Poison-Wind Globadiers suck. Death Globe has really good AP damage and their attacks count as explosive so they tear most things apart. They are pretty good against slow cav and big, slow monsters. They're very strong versus infantry. Mixing one or two into an army is pretty strong. The short range is the drawback. There was a lot of situations in the video that got overlooked where one unit of Death Globes deleted an entire enemy unit in a single volley. One benefit they have over Ratlings is they fire in an arc so line-of-sight isn't an issue, whereas Ratlings can struggle with it on certain maps. I think Death Globes have a solid place within a weapons team army comp.

I would ditch catapults and poison winds. And instead go for 4 warp ligting canons and 2 more poison mortars. Those mortars are on par with catapults in field battle, but are superior in sieges. And warp lighting will fix the single entity issues and they can deal with infantry too.

Look at the balance of power going into the fight with the increase in summons.

There is also a lab upgrade he got that gives a huge melee boost to the globadiers/bombardiers. I bet it does better in sieges tho.

One thing to keep in mind that all of the globe type weapons teams deal magic damage with their ammo and dwarves have naturally high magic resistance, so I'm honestly surprised how well they did in this matchup!

Could it be possible for Legend to make these save files available to the public so people could try out different doomstacks for themselves?

I would put some crown of commands so the friendly fire doesn't count

id throw the regiment of renown mortan into the mix, would be a sweet destruction.

Benefits of this one is its not so much map dependent, given they loop. Also ALWAY checkboard a bit, what this does is gives the models time to die due to range so your ranged units do not all shoot at the same model

How did you alternate the different globadiers when placing them without a control group?

They get obstructed less often. That's the only advantage. I occasionally use them when the region I am in has a lot of maps that are bad for gun LOS.

I believe that in lore there is a skaven faction that focusus on death/poisoned wind globadiers so if that faction becomes a playable faction this army would be very nice on them

The avalanche mortars would have made this army way better! He also has fire balls to help deal with dwarf lords

pretty cool army to test. definitely not as good as the traditional jezzails/ratling army, but not bad at all. Also, if you don't have the ikit claw DLC, and you're playing as skaven, you are doing it wrong. You NEED to get that DLC. Probably the most essential DLC in the entire game aside from those that add entire extra factions. Also did wonders for the lizards.

These globadiers with 90 range must have hell of an arm muscle to throw things that far LOL

Usually I have two mortar teams in every army. They are stupidly strong in sieges and the field battles become even more of a war crime with the Rattling/Jezzailes army :D The other army is even better in sieges tho because the globadiers can climb on walls and absolutely destroy any enemy unit that can't do it like monsters and cav, after you cleared the walls with your mortars. Personally I like to run both armies in the late game. It really depends on the faction you are fighting.

This is the ideal video, Legend! Skaven, a fun doomstack with a salient explanation on how it's suboptimal and why, and all under 30 minutes. I could watch an episode every day of this content.

Plaguewind Mortar Teams are my favorite thing for sieges.

should consider that this army in some maps in which the terrain is very irregular is a better option, since those maps have no good position for Ikit weapon teams