REACTING to First Warhammer 40K Win Rates Since the Update... 

Auspex broadcasting at all hours like he’s doing election coverage.

I'm glad the most baffling flavor fail of all time, the neurotyrant not being able to lead zoanthropes, is finally dead, and you can have a unit of six zoanthropes led by the, you know, mutated super-zoanthrope.

T'au having both a below average win rate and being the faction tied for the most tournament wins is truly a T'au moment

The issue with the ork codex is they overnerfed meganobz which were a key unit in almost every detachment, and basically nerfed the two best detachments whilst doing nothing for the other detachments. A single keyword change could do a lot to make dreadmob more viable (chiefly, give lootas and burnas, the mek keyword, maybe even let meks/big meks lead flash gitz), a lot of ork units could do with points decreases, BSBs are hilariously overcosted compared to regular boyz, killa kans, deff dreads, and the buggies could all do with some love from GW. Instead they cost meganobz on their old FNP and then nerf the FNP as well. I do think most people are just sick of war horde so top orks players will pivot to other armies and that will suppress the win rate, but they will likely remain in the 40s, GW jumped the gun based on early results and fear that they'd do too well in pariah nexus.

Glory to HIS imperial guard

RIP Kroot lmao Stat-check has no data on them, Goonhammer has them at 40% for casual games but Meta Monday has them at a solid 18%. No top or even high tourney placements as far as I could see either. Sadness

I think Drukhari were a big benefactor of the artillery nerf. They were quite vulnerable to indirect.

IMO one of the biggest things for marines is they keep nerfing their best builds, but never buff anything else to replace it. Since the start of the edition marines have had desolation marines nerfed, nothing replaced them and they have been useless since. Then oath wound re-rolls went, nothing was done to compensate that. Then they went after the gladius build so aggressors, inceptors, infiltrators etc. all got points hikes, ALL of stayed the same points even though no one uses aggressors anymore and they hurt firestorm builds as well. Then the vanguard build got nerfed, now the Ironstorm build got nerfed and the Redeemer got nerfed. Consistently balance slate after balance slate they have nerfed marines best datasheets but never given them anything back. Even the Eliminators who went down to a usable 75pts as a cheap infiltrate unit, because of the double firing impulsor thing they got points hikes back up, now they fixed the ability to do that trip, did Eliminators go back down? No of course not still at 85pts. Captains got nerfed by the double strat change, did they go down? Nope. Where are marine players supposed to go? Every good datasheet is pretty much overcosted or at least expensive, every detachment doing well had either it's best units or best enhancements nerfed (or both). The few minor points drops they have given marines, most have been ignored, 175pt termis still no one takes them as their rules are meh, Brutalis went down still didn't get used, assault intercessors only BA use them, bladeguard don't get used, most of the dreads get ignored, the speeders mostly get ignored, repulsor executioner people don't use, reivers still useless, tac marines still useless, suppressors a forgotten unit, infernus squads not used, outriders still meh so many datasheets, so little used. Probably the only points drop units they have given some play to is Jump Assault Intercessors and Scouts, can't see people rushing to use repulsors any time soon. Why are they not giving anvil siege force, first company etc. detachments some love? why not make some other phobos units more viable for use in vanguard? Why not make some of the other dreads and tanks cheaper to use in ironstorm? Why does Firestorm, that was never OP, keep taking hit after hit?

I play Imperial Fists. My bolters feel like they're firing wet tissue paper and my meltas feel like hair blowers. The ranged options of space marines feel like they got hit exceptionally hard by the new toughness scaling, but maybe that's just my experience.

WE CLAIMED THE UPPER TIER IN THE NAME OF THE IMPERIAL GUARD

Space marines still toward the bottom? Better hit them with more nerfs then.

they need to do something against "special" marines causing nerfs for vanillas

What? You mean nerfing space marines while they were already one of the weakest armies DIDNT make them more viable?

I think codex marines could be pretty easy to fix: if you don't have any specialist chapter keyword units in your army, you gain X new rule. Because the codex is already out, it'd have to alter an existing rule and be a simple patch, but it should be doable. I think that the easiest, most impactful, but also most boring fix would patch Oath of Moment: At the end of the Declare Combat Formations step, units in your army gain the CODEX ASTARTES keyword if your army does not contain any BLACK TEMPLARS, BLOOD ANGELS, DARK ANGELS, DEATHWATCH, or SPACE WOLVES models. When a CODEX ASTARTES unit makes an attack against your Oath of Moment target, you may re-roll the wound roll.

I feel like GW needs to bring back gear points for armies. I’m not a fan of free war gear as it feels like some choices are auto haves for units. As for Primaris Marines they need more weapon variety, bring back the different Boltrifles and Plasma weapons.

Fix for playing Vanilla marines, give each of the 'themed' detachments extra buffs if you play as the correct chapter for it. I.e Raven Guard in Vanguard, you get extra buffs, Ultramarine in Gladius, extra buffs, Salamanders in Firestorm extra buffs. So you'd have to play a character from that chapter (which in some cases might be one, like Shrike for Raven Guard) which then excludes you from other marine units (so no BA units etc.) but then you get extra buffs when playing that detachment. I mean Anvil will probably still be crap, but you might then see vanilla gladius, vanguard, and firestorm do better. Also generally those worse detachments in the marine book need some rules changes, like anvil and first company, plus storm lance needs to apply to more than just mounted or literally 3 datasheets in the whole marine codex.

Space Marines at the bottom of the pile, surprise surprise. Damn you GW

The problem with nerfing everything is that eventually everything is so weak that nothing is fun to play. You cut out all of the fun rules and make everything so expensive that you just start playing a different game system instead.

Damn, looks like we got carry Space Marines Brothers. So far it definitely seems like the fastest infantry factions are doing well especially Anti-Infantry weapons due to new objectives. Guard getting stronger seemingly doesn't surprise me because being able to move is great.

Getting nerfed, not winning tournaments and getting beaten up like hotcakes in the latest trailer.. Space marines are in a really bad spot right now.

Dark angels having so many mellee options but no access to advance and charge in any of their own detachments sucks, even a strat or enhancement would be clutch … happy to see them not below normal space marines at least again lol

If GW was actually interested in keeping the game balanced, they would actually play test their changes before putting them out and balance the detachments within a codex against each other instead of the same meta builds in each army. Reavers have been bad for 2 editions now with no break.

In order to fix the Space Marines issue, just give the core codex marines either full wound rerolls on Oath targets on top of reroll hits. And if that's too busted, at least reroll wounds of 1

Love the channel, but couldn't help notice this is the 2nd time in as many weeks that you seem surprised Tsons players still aren't bringing Scarabs in their lists. They are an absolutely dreadful unit! Just to reiterate on a post I made early on in 10th, but Scarabs are: -Terrible at playing the missions(slow & and only 1 OC per 38pts). -Terrible at shooting(S4 and Ap-1 in an edition with inflated Toughness values and omnipresent Cover). Even compared to basic flamer Rubrics the Scarabs don't get extra Ap on 6's, ignore cover, or wound re-rolls. And flamer Rubrics are nearly half the price. And can provide a better shooting buff to attached characters. And have better Overwatch. -Terrible in melee. A3 WS3+ S5 Ap-2 D2 at 38ppm is significantly worse than even a vanilla Bladeguard Veteran(who gets +1A and re-roll 1's To Hit for 8pts less per model). And people don't even really rate vanilla BGVs as good combat units in 10th. S5 is just such a killer in 10th -you so often end up wounding elite stuff(Gravis, Custodes, DG Termies, Canoptek Wraiths, Meganobz, Bloodcrushers, Paragon Warsuits, Wraithguard/blade, Eightbound/Exalted Eightbound, etc) on 5's and most vehicles/monsters(anything T10+) on 6's. I mean by Tzeentch's third eye, GK players call their Termies limp-wristed and their Termies have +1A, +1S, and [Lethal Hits] over Scarabs! -Actively tank your Cabal Point score(generating 1 CP per 190-380pts, compared to say 3 or 6 CP for the same amount of points if you were to bring along 5 Rubrics+character(if comparing to 5 Scarabs) or 2x5 Rubrics+2x characters(if comparing to 10 Scarabs). Not to mention if you try to utilize their Deep Strike rule then that's at least 2 Turns that the Scarabs don't even generate their 1 CP since CP generation has an "on the table" clause. 😒 With all of that actively going against them, it's really no wonder competitive Tsons players leave their Terminators at home. The unit needs to either be significantly cheaper(I'm skeptical this would even work since we've seen GW adopt that approach with Blightlords and DG players still don't seem to be bringing them) or they need to get a profile upgrade a la what GW just recently did for the GK Dreadknights/Dark Angel melee units. Tldr: the Scarabs need to be strong enough that including them in your list is somehow worth the potential -5 Cabal Points penalty that they impose when you include them over other options in the same points cost range, and they just aren't anywhere near that level currently. Which is a shame, because Terminators are cool. I would very much like to play with my Terminators sometime this edition! 😊

*GW:* "New Meta and Missions Just Dropped" *Tyranids:* "Cool New Restaurant Just Opened"

Pleasantly surprised to see Drukhari being near the top. I kinda thought they’d drop a tiny bit with secondaries not being worth as much as before.

I think the winrates will be more indicative in a few more weeks. People will finetune and iterate upon the first lists they took to these most recent tournaments and performance from different factions will shift and improve from there.

No I think this is likely the accuracy of the Ork book at this time. It's not just the changes to the book, although Green Tide and Bully Boys got smashed pretty hard. The general core rules / mission changes were abysmal for Orks. Stratagem wise, they abused tank shock on trucks, and advance / fallback grenades to do extra damage where the general book kinda fails (Orks are NOT a high damage army...). In addition, the general style of orks is early pressure, deny primary, and run up a score. With secret missions it's way easier to claw back to a 40 primary. Completely acceptable score in a tight / hard fought game. Subtly too, when a rhino chassis (or rough equivalent) cannot be reasonable dealt with by most detachments in the shooting phase, Orks just get presented with bad game states that require them to massively outplay or out luck their opponent. In addition, even if War Horde is the good one, people are sick of playing index hammer. The point of the book is to play with cool new stuff and you're left playing a detachment that's been played for a year with a rather linear playstyle (that also DOESN'T help shooting units). It's a dumpster fire. And points won't address the issue (although there a couple examples like Kommandos / deff dreads where they are horribly overcosted). Orks have plenty of stuff, it just doesn't do enough.

Consider this, regarding the core codex/divergent chapter dilemma: Assault Intercessors are really only good for killing chaff. A squad of five mulch 12 Cadians if they’re shooting and re-rolling wound rolls of 1. This is ALL they can kill effectively, as they only kill 3 Intercessors by comparison. Now contrast that with Assault Intercessors in the Blood Angels detachment, and now they kill 7 Intercessors and 19 Cadians. Why does that unit cost the same in Gladius AND Sons of Sanguinius? This is real simple: stop needing the core codex; give more precise point values for what things cost.

Space Marines were already bad, got crippling nerfs and are now, shockingly, terrible. 🙄

*me knee deep in prepping my 60 neophytes *surprised Pikachu face

Taken in a vacuum SM are absolutely not bad. The problem is they are just worse than divergent space marines that can use their stuff plus’s other stuff. Tge solution? Stop divergents from being able to use SM detachments and un nerf a few of those (careful with Ironstorm though!)

Thanks for the constant stream of amazing content dude. Your upload schedule is nuts esp with the really good accuracy with your rates. Keep it up man!

Let’s go! Dark Eldar kicking arse once again.

We’re entering a Drukhari sweep baby that’s what I love to see.

Space Marines just dying atm, good lord

Haha marines dropped to 40 😆😅 what a surprise. Those nerfs were def necessary Gdubs

Don't let divergent chapters use unique units in codex detachments. Buff oath to allow reroll wounds or hits. Make firestorm crappier strats better. Stormlance too. Anvil gets counts as remain stationary if moved equal to or less than M, 1st company gets reroll hits and wounds on oath target all game for 1st company units (termies, bladeguard, van/sternguard, land raiders, and maybe captain units?

A change for Oath of Moment could be making it so that it affects all objectives on the board within 6" of the objective, rather than targeting a single unit a turn. You lose the single target damage but gain blanket buffs for objective holders. Maybe add an additional buff for Oath of Moment with this change, add a defensive buff for being on objectives as well.

Maybe, when 40th edition arrives, Vulkan can return and give us Salamander players the firestorm codex we deserve... One can only dream...

Keep up the good work, always so much content on your channel, always up to date

IG are feeling pretty savage on the table. My most recent game against Votann was very successful. Lethals are great and double Dorn is slick.

GW needs to get RU-vidrs like auspex and play on tabletop to play test these codex’s

0:57 Auspex, I believe the kids call it clickbait

What? marines aren't doing well? Why not get rid of more options and make more Hyper focused units? maybe that will make them better? Oh wait that's the god dam issue in the first place.

Happy independence day form Ireland

Can't believe the Custodes sister detachment, which everyone including me thought was just a meme, actually won a tournament!

Other divergent chapters doing well: torches and pitchforks. BA doing well: balance at top 'pretty great'. 👌

Auspex on that grind

Codex Space marines can be fixed but it needs some specific targeting. Now you can't just use points on the generic units, because all the divergent chapters get them too. If you want to make them better though what you can do is three things. First, buff the characters that cannot be taken in the divergent ones. Guiliman, Tor Garadon, Shrike ect. Stronger buffs or base gear, or even just points though I'd hesitate to only do points there. Second, you can adjust their sub-factions. They've already got six-you could rework say half of those to not be take-able if you have any divergent units in them, then buff those only stock marine detachments. And third, if you had to, you could lock down more units to not be takeable in the non divergent chapters, though I'd be iffy about this one given it might mess up people's lists.

shoutout to den of fools, GREAT channel!

Honestly that's a pretty good spread if you ignore vanilla space marines, but that's not exactly a small portion of the playerbase. The divergent chapters seem to be doing fine, so it's just the core codex that's struggling. Fully agree with Auspex that it looks like there needs to be some actual incentive to play core codex marines.

Really surprised GSC is that high tbh. I expect that to drop down to around 35% after some more data.

I'm curious with Space Wolves taking Champions of Russ which of them are they taking as their free options? Like if I had to guess it would be either the Feel No Pains or OC buff just for how difficult it is compared to the others.

Literally instantly bought dice as soon as I heard you say it lol

I will continue to preach the belief that SM can only start to be made better once they cut off all other Divergent chapters from using their detachments.

People liked the ork codex right so seeing them almost the same level as genestealers is funny with how people didn't like they codex

It would be cool if GW gave SM a chapter master, you choose a unique enchantment and gave him more war gear or something like that... 🤔🤷‍♂

A 9-10% jump for Deathwatch? I know it's only one weekend of data, but that's a good jump up! It would also be very interesting to see what detachment is being used, and the army list.

DG were a 45% last I checked. A bit hard to call point reductions to bad units that are never taken because of bad abilities compensation. It's so hard to get excited about playing them in 10th.

From what I understand CSM were not "winning a lot of tournaments". They won a few, out of what was a list of some 15-16 different "codexes" that were winning (Orks winning the most by numbers at the time by far) and those CSM lists that did actually win all seemed to do so for a very brief period of time, spamming 20-30 Warp Talons... GW could have nerfed the War Talons a bit for sure (no denying that), but then let the CSM meta get a bit of time to develop before nerfing pretty much every unit that people started to take. Nerfing Havocs again? I mean, what the actual f...???

Admech wise, i have to say data-psalm with fun police (fulgurites) is great with charge from dunerider. XD

Really torn between the white and black dices. The white ones are what I always imagined Auspex dice would look like, but those black ones are all kinds of sexy 😍

So here's an idea for vanilla Marines that might help them a bit- give them an extra rule, something along the lines of 'Adherent to the Codex', which gives them a bonus CP at the top of the battle round. The idea there being that sticking rigidly to the Codex Astartes has tactical benefits that the divergent Chapters can't match. With the recent changes to 'free' strats it could be quite impactful, and the fact that it'd need an exception to the usual CP gaining limits would just help cement the Marines place as GW's favourite special boys.

I have my first Tyranid game tomorrow, with the new changes. I m stll not sure if the Neuro Tyrants Neuroloid, attached to a non Synapse units hand out the additional -1 to the Battleshock test during Shadows in the Warp. If anyone has a clue, i´d like to know the answer, as i m sure it´ll come up.

Rogal Dorn tanks being 240 while executioner tanks being 220 is hilarious. The Dorn is 16 wounds at T12 2+ and the sheer volume of shots it has, plus getting orders and lethals. Repulsor executioner is 3+ save T12 with 16 wounds and its only threatening weapon is the las destroyer. The Dorn can also blank the damage of an attack once per battle.

Chaos space marines got a hit becaise a few sweaty nerds did well with renegade raiders. Now I'm in a worse spot with dread talons than i already was though I think pariah nexus might be a weird buff do to how actions work now

Ahhhhh The Dark Kin

What about allowing two detachments for codex space marines?

Blood angels 55? Oh.. Gw would delete death company flexbility. we are f8cked xDDD

Yeah, the 3% below the 50% threshold for CSM makes perfect sense. That's basically how over-nerfed they were in the update. It's not terrible, but it WAS too much.

Guessing we’re waiting 6 months for any kind of change to orks to make them even middling to good if anything, nice codex GW shame the index the only usable option was f you’re not throwing on purpose

40k Messiah coming in hot!!

On codex vs divergent marines, I honestly think divergents should have much more limited access to codex datasheets, and be restricted to maybe two codex detachments at most (Gladius + 1 lore relevant other). And codex armies get a buff to Oath, maybe just reroll 1’s to wound?

I find it interesting you have never mentioned big knights doing actions while shooting, did you forget that in the mission pack?

I feel bad for GCults. From the best faction to practicaly the worst

As soon as I saw the admech changes I was happy but new it wasn’t enough, they really need to be a semi elite army with rules to show it and please let the mars robots be good again they need it

Space Marines are kinda cool because of the play style variety. Also a nightmare because of the same reason

I know this is an early look but I wouldn't have guessed that tyranids and imperial guard were both above the 50% mark.

I can't decide which army to go first. I'm getting th ultimate starter soon and then will transition them into another army. I'm stuck between dark angels blood angels and deathwatch. My question is I understand the unit difference of each but I don't know rules detachment or codex. All I'm curious about between the 3 which is the most fun to play. Not the strongest or best if you by the most. But just bare basics which is most fun.

Drukhari being strong is pretty nice. Space Marines still desperately need a buff but it's nice to see most armies hanging around the middle. Feels balanced.

Anyone have a link to that space wolves champions of Russ list? I'd love to give it a try, but I can't find any decent lists using the detachment

Tyranids being 51% is a good start. We just need about 48-49% higher before its perfect

I love my nid buffs, the people saying that they are op are hard copeing, they definitely got better, but op is too much of a stretch the change is just a lot more pronounced since the killing power was so bad, I say nids will probably settle around 48%. Also my imperial fists weep for the space marines and anvil siege force.

Thinking back to i think 8th when Space Marines kept getting buffs and new units with more buffs, it feels surreal seeing Marines just get hammered with nerfs.

My simple fix for the Codex compliant: Give them back the original Oath of Moment with full wound re-rolls. This of course would make 1st Company Task Force detachment rule redundant, but since that is probably the weakest detachment anyway they could change that detachment rule to "Veteran and Terminator units gain the Battleline keyword (and +1 OC)."

5 straight wins with deathwing detachment. I was getting beat badly before the update now I'm crushing

So buying dice. Its the least we can all do for your service and they’re actually a solid deal

40% WR for regular Marines ? I'm shocked! SHOCKED! Legit way to play my Sallies lately is to "lend" Divergent chapers units/rules. I mean, I dont have any Salamander keyword in army so why not use Blood Angel rules and pretend that detachment is called Sons of Vulcan... Or Black Templars vechicles with bonus Multi-melta pretending to be Sallies. Dark Angels Deathwing Terminator Squads can pretend to be Nocturne Terminator Squads... Of course no keyword mixing. It works both ways so use it to your advantage because seems like GW wants people to buy Poster Boys and spend more dosh on divergent chapters.

I was wondering why Imperial Guard was so low before. As a T'au player, my experiences with Rogal Dorne tanks have always been rather unpleasant and I bet they will become even more painful now.

Wild how vastly different your rates are sometimes compared to den of fools. Eldar in this vid get 49, whereas in his they're barely above the 45 mark. In my own experience they're doing fine though. I do only play casually, playing with and against decent lists though, I've won 4/4 games so far in Pariah Nexus.

As a Salamanders + Orks player I'm certainly ecstatic.

it feels like, most of it is like upside down from January, which fells stupid, not a good job if it was like that, slight nerfing/buffing would be better than always the nerfhammer and then watch what happens

😂 whats anyone gonna do against 12 tanks? Thank GW for that push on the Guard 🎉

I would take this with a big grain of salt. As a DG player I have beaten IG and drukarhi into the ground

It warms my heart to see my two favorite xenos armies right below 50%. 🥰

I gotta hand it to 'em, they actually did get rid of cheese for the 'Nids and gave us some fresh meat instead!

I'm foreseeing Necrons having a massive drop because now they only have 1 detachment that can be played competively because Court has been figured out as a snowball detachment as it's either you snowball your opponent or you get snowballed but you can't snowball hard with Necrons when your main damage dealers are immortals, Ctans however m6" means you can just feed them a 20 man squad and their stuck for two turns while doomstalkers going up makes them less valuable than heavy destroyers for 5 more points you can get 3 destroyers also that immortals and warriors do not help secondaries as immortals are frontline infantry wipers and can't do pariah nexus secondaries well and warriors are warriors nothing more to say but the worse battleline in tabletop. So they might as well be on a countdown before Necron competitive players just migrate to another faction and their win rate just evaporates. It's almost as if 90% of there codex is so mid or just outright bad it's intentional they couldn't be bothered to make it fluffy or interesting like are you telling me that for Necrons they make that?. But damn SM...

Admech got about half of the changes they need. Hope to see them double down and actually make them the semi-elite army they should be. The Ironstriders should be costing 100+ points for how expensive they are. Just make their guns insanely scary and keep their weak defensive profile

Why would GW replace meganobz with death wing knights in the meta lol