Reacting To Your Terrible Dragon Ball Takes 

As a person who drew a lot of dragon Ball in high school art classes, there's a huge difference between Goku SSJ1 and SSJ2 and its all in the bangs

2:50 not to be a nerd but accidentally saying “incarceration” instead of of incarnation is hilarious 😂

Yes that super sayian rage take is wild like where is the explanation for this man trunks not unlocking this after getting whooped by black until he went back in time and somehow has the motivation now

The dragon balls make sense, Ganoralah became the strongest at a cost. They had to upgrade the DB for Piccolo to unlock his potential. Plus we all wanted Piccolo to catch up

Bro I think I'd cry if dragon ball went back to classic martial arts I would love to see them do some crispy shit like like early Anderson silva did Or like having Goku and Vegeta fighting someone that it really looks like they can't beat and they find a way to just straight up exhaust the power difference outta them

6:12 On the topic of Piccolo's Potential Unleashed type mode. I think that Dragon Ball has sort of glossed over it, but every character can get their potential awakened as a buff. Krillin and Gohan got their potential awakened by Guru, Gohan got his potential truly awakened by Supreme Kai. Which also brings into question why everyone hasn't went to the Supreme Kai or a similar godly figure to give them a Potential Unleashed type form. Especially with characters like Tien that are canonically meant to have some sort of true, hidden power, as well as being part alien himself (Yeah, Triclops is an alien species, I was just as confused when I found that out). Hell, now that I think about it, we never got any explicit confirmation that Goku OR Vegeta ever got a Potential Awakening.

Imma be honest, after watching Carthu’s video on orange piccolo ive actually sorta come to love the transformation

You literally explained why piccolo isn’t Mickey… dude literally trained by himself for decades and was ssj3 level… the main cast either needed new transformations and god training to get any stronger.

11:20 to me goku making progress faster than vegeta for most of the series was about his of mastery martials arts, having multiple teachers and masters, if you notice goku until the cell saga he used to wear his orange gi with the symbol of the teacher until the cell saga implying that he became a "master" .(until super retconed it). Vegeta was born with a much higher power level and never had a teacher or master before in his life, he learned how to sense and hide ki on the namek arc by himself, vegeta is just as talented, but for most of z he refused help and overworked himself, for example he was locked in with trunks in the hyperbolic time chamber and yet unlike gohan and goku, he didn't bond and train the same way gohan and goku did. In conclusion vegeta fighting understanding/talent is comparable to goku maybe less but the difference maker is the fact that Goku works smarter and has deeper understanding of fighting in general imo.

Bro really said beerus not really that evil ☠️☠️☠️ just cause he tolerates goku and earth dont mean him destroying planets for bad food disappears

Loving the DB content sage, we need more.

"BAE SHUT UP THE GOAT TSO POSTED:

8:40 Goku already explained in the manga iirc that he doesn't stack Kaioken onto SSJ because the stamina drain is way too much. That's also why he doesn't use SSJ Blue with Kaioken too often... additionally, stacking them puts WAY too much strain on the body. What is dumb tho is that Goku and the gang could've easily trained up there to unlock SSJ2 by that point and use their one day back to earth from the old witch (if she is still around) in order to defeat the androids. OR BETTER YET, have King Kai communicate with Bulma a way to build a spaceship and use the one day wish in order to stalk the androids, and get bulma and trunks to new namek in order to use their dragon balls to either incapacitate the androids and wish everyone back (hell, we can even wish Trunks immortal as a joke at that point, although that might tick off beerus). These are all methods that have been done in the series or shown to be completely possible so I am convinced that Toriyama just wanted the future timeline to be hopeless no matter what.

never seen anyone hate on super saiyan 2. Im pretty sure Goku fought in super saiyan 2 more than 1 in Super.

In defense of Super Saiyan Rage, it didn't need to exist and yeah they should've explained more about it. However, my interpretation of it was that Super Saiyan Rage is what happens when a Saiyan tries to surpass Supwer Saiyan 2 through anger rather than training. If it was through training then they'd reach Super Saiayn 3 but through anger they would reach Rage. Or maybe the blue aura was from the god ki from goku and vegeta The design was good with the white eyes and aura they just didn't use it all the time. The name was stupid though but the transformation scene was badass. 🤷‍♂

I NEEDED THIS VIDEO, MY GLORIOUS KING

On Piccolo being Mickey I view it as him having his limiter removed similar to Mystic Gohan.

I'd argue gohan achieving beast with that level of rage and lack of training is disingenuous to all the prior rage boosts he's had. It invalidates moments where he's most definitely even more angry (watching namekians kids die in front of him, krillin being presumed killed by frieza, cell jrs man handling his friends and family, etc.). To just say, this power always existed and how vastly it outscales anything in dragon ball or even most of DBS anime arcs (manga is a whole other can of worms, and obviously not including G.O.D's and angels). Extra Note: Forgot to even mention piccolo's death. And yes ik this doesn’t make for an interesting story, but thats my point. Beast's existence invalidates prior stakes and it doesn’t help we know so little about it.

I thought Piccolo wishing for his potential unleashed made sense since it was the fused version of king piccolo and kami who made the dragon balls it felt like a certain amount of power being returned to him

Well it wasnt JUST piccolos potential, piccolos potential came in the form of the power awakening state where he was slightly yellowish green. But orange piccolo was the extra power that shenron granted him."all you have plus a little extra."

I don’t think the orange piccolo thing was that crazy. He finds out about the unlocking potential after running into a stronger fighter. Goes to Dende to get unlocked, Dende didn’t know how. Dende says he upgraded Shenron. And shenron said he unlocked potential and gave him a little extra. Now was it more than a little extra yes, but wasn’t that over the top.

6:00 kinda a miss take here 1. goku and vegeta arnt there so the point of why hasnt this been done before he didnt need to, once he figures out goku and vegeta are gonna be hard to reach he ask if dende can unlock his potential like guru did with gohan and krillin. dende says he doesn't have the ability so he ask if the dragon can do it . he can shenron unlocks his potential giving him the lime form "+ a bit extra" which is orange because piccilo who was once evil doesn't use the dragon balls for material gain so the dragon gifts him extra power 2, in Z i think they do decent jobn at portraying piccilos method of training and how its ineffective or less so due to him doing it solo he more focuses on base conditioning and special techniques. to were goku and roshii tryna make the best martial artist. the only real power up he really gets outside of namekian exlusives absobtions and this which also plays on his namekian ties. preping for the androids the first time hes doing martial arts training with someone else and isn't a tranier persay if you want you can count king kia trianing be4 nail fusion he gets a crazy boost. 3 dirctly coralating his training to his teaching i see were u comin from but piccolo is training saiyins the martial art aspect almost comes natrually too all of them but a young gohan ironiclly so piccilo being a guy with crazy techniques and just maintains his shape fits well as a mentor. espiaslly considering how nonchalant gohan is with training. the potential unleashes also seem to have a passive buff cause krillin went from 3kish to 10k after it happend but by time his second form frieza fight hes at 75k. considering gohan got to vegteta first appearance strength when he was weaker than nappa previously. you could make an argument for gohan always passively having potential cracks especially after the elder kia PU and as you say keeps him relevant one rage boost away. If orange is mickey then it extends to every potintial unlock to an extent. is his piccolo's power boost more BS for you because of the power jump or the new form

My wife willingly halted her birthing of our child so I could hear you, she's truly a catch

Okay, I wish to make a little argument for Orange Piccolo (You don't have to agree with me, just hear me out). When he made the wish, yes, he got pretty powerful... _HOWEVER_ when OP showed up, the voice-line that Shenron said showed up ("A little something extra") implying that was external intervention. Could you make the argument that kind of form shouldn't happen in DB? Yeah, in the same way Super Saiyan God shouldn't. But it should be remembered, this movie was originally for _Piccolo_ and Gohan was tagged in later, as such, this form has significantly more narrative relevance when looking through the movie than Beast does. But that's my opinion, do what you want with it.

Imma be real i never really got perfect cell. Like yeah first and second form cell were great because he had that motivation to become complete, which forced the heroes to try and play keep away with cell and the androids (who also wanted to kill them), but after getting absorbs 18 he looses that motivation. After that he’s just “i am strong, i want to see how strong i am, fight me.” Like i guess some people say that thats just the goku dna in his body just wanting to fight, but i dont think they played that up enough in the show for that to be really obvious. Also where was that thirst for fighting in his first and second forms?

My hottest take: Gohan vs Cell (before Super Saiyan 2) is one of the worst fights in the series

i heard gt all i thought was bull parara parara…….then a shed a few tears

The dragon not only gave his potential unlocked(thats the light green looking piccolo) the little extra is the orange piccolo transformation

6:04 I would like to remind you that Orange Piccolo itself was not something piccolo was aware of, it simply came as courtesy from Shenron 8:40 goku had already stacked Kaioken on SSJ when fighting Pikkon btw, he called it ''Super Kaioken'' 13:38 I hate when ppl say you can't tell ssj goku from ssj2 goku apart, the fucking bangs look different and vegeta's hairstyle NEVER changes with transformations basically so that's fair, adult gohan has a smaller bang in ssj that goes away at ssj2, but nothing too drastic either

Piccolo (fused with Kami) was the namek that created the dragon. That’s why orange piccolo was fitting. This also could be the “super namekian” that had been teased all through dragon ball. Also, he couldn’t have wished for the potential unleash because he never had the chance to after fusing with Kami.

Yes you can tell when someone is using ss2, ss2 has lightning around the user but ss1 doesn’t, that’s what makes it more distinct

First hot take really hit me cause personally speaking I really liked Cell, he was a great villain

Need TSO to cook with the DBS manga content

I mean even if we say gohan has this crazy potential in order to overcome/rival his obstacles he still needed to train a good amount

Bro said Hot Take over the planet buster comment when I've been saying characters like Yamcha etc can easily destroy planets for YEARS

GT has the best villain in DB that being Baby and his revenge against the Saiyans. And Super has the biggest low being a tingle in the back is what sparks going Super Saiyan.

11:07 i mean in gods defense, he was given the god form but he couldn't truly obtain it and he couldn't access to it ever again so he went to whis planet to train hard and ended up truly earning the god form just like Vegeta he was given the form but he had to earn it like vegeta afterwards

Im so glad this channel started auto playing, i needed a new hyper fixation to listen to while driving around

Whats crazy is that technically Beerus allowed freiza to destroy planet vegeta. Dude was gonna do it himself but fell asleep before he got around to it😂

Y'know now that I think about it tien just aimed a little to the side and blasted 18 we probably wouldn't have any problems with cell since eventually vegeta and trunks would come out and just kill him

11:17 I hate this argument so much, that people think that Vegeta trained himself and figured out how to transform into a Super Saiyan God, when that's not true. What is true, is that he didn't use the "Ritual" to become a God the first time like Goku, but Vegeta didn't learn it on his own how to unlock the divine powers, he was literally trained by an "Angel", who helped him how to discover those powers, because if Vegeta hadn't trained with Whis he would never have become the Super Saiyan God, without help or that ritual that Goku went through the first time.

11:08 He was given the god form, but I dont think we’ve seen Vegeta get it 👀

Hot take: Akira should've stopped after the airing of dbz . His health and memeory was gone at that point . Yes we got battle of gods but we also got horrrible super

Super saiyan is just rage I dunno why that for even has a separate distinction. Not counting kid Trunks and Goten who got ssj in a patch because of power creep. 💀

I guess my hot take is that Majin Buus arc just doesn’t compare to the other arcs in Z in terms of writing and well action either

Okay this take doesn't feel too hot, but Gohan getting angry over certain things doesn't work anymore unless you give him a reason that he hasn't found already. If you've seen your close friends and family be mutilated, blown up and stomped out in your face, that trauma is hard to live with. The fact that he still goes throught his day without even mentioning any of this stuff and pouring tears is enough to say that Gohan probably shouldn't get rage boosts anymore and beast maybe shouldn't exist. That being said, we still dont have an actual reason as for why fear overrides the need to go super saiyan, because he should have gone super on Namek at the latest. If it were like the hulk where adrenaline triggers the transformation it would be good, but it's supposed to be this primal fury that really just doesn't actually exist for any character besides Goku apparently.

I still want cooler to be cannon

What! Bro first take was crazy, Cell was a dog! He was legit all of them in one character and wanted the best fight like goku to prove he’s strongest. Cell was a great villain

i never saw vegeta or frieza as martial artists I always saw them as brawlers or free stylers

Sage dounds like he only watched GT dub not sub and it’s a shame because sub really helps realize the ideas of the narrative much better. The dialogue can be so drastically different in instances that it entirely changes how you interpret it.

Piccolo is Piccolo, Nail and Kami, imagine the wish granted all of them with their potentials unlocked at once, since Piccolo is the 3 together.

ngl the only way i differentiate ssj2 and ssj is the hair spikes or the electricity around the body 😭

I heavily disagree with his take on GT GT is good

11:01 No. It was specifically stated that the only way make a super saiyan god is to have the ritual. Vegeta popping up with SS Blue through training goes to show how bad DBSuper writing is. While I like Cell, one of the things that take away from him is the fact that he steals and uses other character abilities. Which makes sense due to what he is, but Frieza was wholly original (minus the energy discs which he didn't steal). I still like Cell, just not as much as Frieza. Is he a great villain? I would say so. I think him regenerating from semi perfect to perfect is a stretch, but the fan base has accepted it, so who am i?

Wait technically frieza isn't racist he only did what he did was because beerus commanded him to get rid of them

That last take. OH DEAR GOD. 1. It’s not Planet Vegeta, it’s Planet Sadala, it has an ENTIRELY different society than Planet Vegeta. 2. IF and I mean *IF* there’s a royalty there on Sadala, the king is NOT gonna give Vegeta the crown because *VEGETA ISN’T THE PRINCE TO U6 SADALA* because it’s not HIS RIGHT TO RULE OVER. 3. Vegeta is LONG past his days of a Royal Elite conquering Saiyan. Having him do that dumbass transition in U6 of all places is kinda like undoing it all. 4. Vegeta ain’t gonna be teaching the Saiyans of U6, he’s got Cabba to deal with, he ain’t got time to teach a whole civilization except sparring with some who he deems worthy of battling. If there’s gonna be a person to teach SSJ, it’s gotta be Cabba as he’s part of the Sadala Defense Force…but until Vegeta beats him over the head on how to PROPERLY trigger SSJ and not rely on that STUPID back method, Cabba ain’t ready to teach SSJ to other Saiyans of his universe besides Kale and Caulifla.

I must disagree with Vegeta being the best character in DB by development … -He still let his pride beat him wayyy before his opponent actually beats him -He’s still obsessed with surpassing Goku when he should be using his family as motivation to surpass himself -He went from being his own entity in DB only to be demoted to becoming a caricature of himself -He still hasn’t grown as a fighter considering he still prefers to handle things by himself As long as Vegetas pride is intact …He can never truly grow beyond Goku but that’s how Toriyama wants his character to be so🤷

I mean who else but Piccolo to ask Shenron to be stronger, he literally was attached to earths dragon balls

Frieza is the best villian in DBZ. But Cell, Super Buu and his transformations & Kid Buu were also really good villains.

To be honest, if you’ve ever seen the Janemba movie, you’d understand the gohan super saiyan kaioken theory

You can tell when Goku uses ssj2 his bangs are different

Gohan is the antagonist he gets so much screen time in the first 3 sagas of z then they nerf him in buu.

im sure im alone on this but goku black deserves more respect, im a sucker for a complex character and hes up their in complexity. it sucks how he got defeated but his character arc was cool to me

Although i don't fully agree that we hadn't had a great villain since dbz frieza (although i do think he is the best villain), i think cell and his entire arc is indeed overrated. Gero, android 19, android 17, 18, and 16 were thrown at the viewer in hopes that people would like them as the "main antagonists" but cell was the best one to become a villain so everything before cell appears is a waste of time. That's like 1/3rd of the entire arc. Cell himself is a great concept but is mostly a pushover and a coward until he absorbs 18. Piccolo could've killed him in their first encounter if cell didn't use solar flare. Vegeta could've killed him in his 2nd form, but he was way too confident and let him become perfect. Even trunks could've killed him if vegeta gave him the chance. He isn't very intimidating or anything in those moments. Just another weak pushover that gets demolished by vegeta. That's 1/3rd of the arc where the main villain is a pushover and coward. Cell, in his perfect form, does become a good villain. He demolishes vegeta, makes trunks give up, waltzes in a news station to announce the cell games, has a very intense fight with goku that tests goku out tremendously, and even he gave up. But he then starts going down the vegeta route when he fights gohan. Purposely lets him get stronger to the point that cell can't beat him and gets demolished even after a zenkai boost. When frieza caused goku to get stronger, it was unintentional, and it was basically karma for everything that frieza has done. Cell was basically like vegeta was when vegeta fought cell in his 2nd form. All those IQ points gone to waste.

I do think the time chamber should’ve been an option in the future for gohan and trunks

I’m pretty sure Goku isn’t with King Kai in future trunks timeline he’s just straight up in heaven.

I can agree with people that buu is a lesser villain than Cell, Frieza and vegeta, specially when it comes to depth but dammit i love him anyway, just because his pure evil chaotic unhinged energy is so different. Why can't we have crazy villains who're crazy for crazyness sake? I mean Buu was supposed to be a demon right??? I think that he's perfect for that 3rd saga where Goku feels Like he's in control of everything, then its obvious that the villain would look like a funny joke to him. (Also we have the Vegetto beating down Buuhan wich is fucking awesome

I don’t talk about Dragon Ball with people who haven’t seen the original run the series continuity 1984-1995 anything after that is DLC.

I got hot take its I'm more racist than frieza 💀💀💀

Hot take maybe idk but in my opinion DBZ Broly is a way better character than DBS Broly. People complain that Z Broly only screams Kakarot (Second movie not the first btw) and has a shitty backstory but they give S Broly a pass just because he's backstory is better although he literally does nothing but fight and scream. Z Broly is more intimidating and even he acknowledges that he is a sadistic monster which in a way makes him way more interesting. I think S Broly is fine but putting him way over Z Broly in terms of character? I don't see it

How in the absolute hell is Base Kefla stronger than SSG goku. That makes no sense whatsoever. Now, I think about it the biggest, if not one of the biggest issues with DBS, is the inconsistent storytelling and power scaling of the entire series. This is the first time in my life I can't even tell which is better between anime or manga.

I hate beast gohan because it invalidates gohans whole arc about wanting to find a way to power that doesnt involve transforming

Regarding the Future Gohan part I get Kami would be dead because Piccolo is gone but you really telling me Popo couldn’t have gotten to Gohan and had him and Trunks train in the time chamber? The Androids can’t sense energy and nobody really knows about the lookout other than Goku really. Plus Yajirobe is still alive. Kind of Mickey to me 🤔

I actually really like GT, like all of it. But for what it is, a non-canon dragonball story lol

Zamasu/Goku black is the second best villain in the entire series because he's literally just in absurdly racist god. 😂

Nah, I'm sorry, blowing up 18 wasn't an option. Krillin isn't a cold blooded killer and the androids clearly weren't evil at that point, blaming Krillin for not getting his hands dirty to fix Vegeta's mess is ridiculous.

I'm a guy who likes Piccolo. Literal GOAT character. But you know the only reason Piccolo got a transformation is because Toriyama really likes him. Gave no real shites about Gohan. Just reinact the Cell Games or whatever.

Fat buu was not evil. He just didn’t know what he wanted to do, and didn’t realize he had free will

My question is since Ultimate Gohan isnt super saiyan could he go Ultimate Gohan+Kaioken? Ik its a Goku exclusive and sounds fanficy buttt in theory

Worst take I've ever heard: Ox King has a power level of 900.

GT only had one good arc (Baby) and Super Saiyan 4 is dope as hell. Sadly other than that there's no reason to watch it. Wish they took inspiration from Super Saiyan 4 into DBS, having a transformation mixing with their Oozaru form.

King Piccolo being ignored as a villain is dumb...... "But people don't watch OGDB, Z is better" that's even more dumb.....

I agree with you about ssj looking the same on everyone except teen Gohan EXCEPT for Goku. His hair noticeably changes in the front. Not a huge change but it is noticeable. Everyone else agree 100% tho.

Even if fortune tellar baba wasnt killed by the androids she would very likely have abandoned earth and just hid in other world

In my opinion, Cell isn't even really a villain He's just an antagonist, but Frieza over here WAS the absolute villain. He's done worse Cell protected the earth, and still didn't really do anything villain like asides from absorbing people

For the SSJ2 stuff, the reason it’s irrelevant is bc Toriyama forgot it exists and jst did SSJ3 jst because

My hot take is that the transformations severely fuck up the scaling and make characters like Goku and Vegeta seem weak as hell and undermines their training. Think about the Tournament of Power, we see characters like Android 17, Hit, Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, etc. keep up with and in Jiren's case FAR surpass Super Saiyan Blue Goku & Vegeta, but all of those characters are always in their base forms as that's all they have. If that is the case, why the fuck are Goku and Vegeta's base forms so weak? We know that Goku and Vegeta's god forms make them hundreds of thousands - millions of times stronger, so does that mean that if Android 17 can keep up with Goku and Vegeta then he is millions of times stronger than their base forms? How? Am I to assume that each and every one of those characters trained millions of times harder than Goku and Vegeta? I just wish the series would finally put some respect on the base forms of these characters. With the way it looks now it honest to god feels like Yamcha could walk up to base Goku and Vegeta and just beat the dog shit out of them. Seriously, limit Goku and Vegeta to only their base forms in the TOP and they're getting their pockets ran by Ribrianne alone. It's so frustrating to think about

You can’t use the god argument against Goku because honestly vegeta would have never gotten the form without whis help

Vegeta actually never lost to Goku and they only had 3 actual fights, everything else was sparring. 1.He defeated Goku in the Saiyan Saga and was defeated by Gohan, Krillin and Yajirobi 2.He knocked Goku out during the Buu Saga 3. He defeated Goku in DBS:SH

Ik its filler but didn’t Goku use Kaioken in super saiyan while fighting Pikkon? Also you could argue that Goku did in fact earn the God form by being the strongest in the group at the time. 🤷‍♂️

Future timeline Goku isn’t even in otherworld cause he died of natural causes. You don’t go to otherworld if you die naturally. isn’t that how it worked?

I wish I coulda joined in on this cuz I wanna know if people think it's a bad take to just act like numbering the power system never happened I'm rewatching Z rn and its just more fun pretending the numbers don't exist Like I don't feel like it's dumb idk

I just want my king to be the one to defeat Black Frieza. That would be the biggest full circle W for Vegeta ever. No games no cop outs. Just Vegeta and Frieza. Vegeta has every reason to want to end Frieza and after how many times that asshole has humiliated Vegeta that would be the perfect way to bring Vegeta full circle back to when vegeta got absolutely bodied by Frieza but this time vegeta is the one to hav the upper hand. Frankly i want to see Vegeta Hakai Frieza after he has beaten him to a bloody pulp holding him by his throat off the ground. Tha would be dope but im not a writer and i doubt they will ever give vegeta that W. But unfortunately this would ne just agood fan fic idea cuz while it would make sense for Vegetas character something drastic would have to happen for Goku to b out of the picture again. And i seriously doubt that is gonna happen again.

Piccolo got his potential unlocked just like gohan did and he’s the strongest in the universe damn near. They’re not minimal boosts lol. He used to rival goku remember that!

1:25 Dragon ball z Hasn’t had a great villain since frieza? So we ignoring cell, and majin buu?

People forget Goku died from natural causes and went to heaven and possibly doesn’t even have his body. Edit: 15:57 I thought I was only one who wasn’t messing with the Super 17 arc.

It is weird that it's like a rock paper scissors beats Vegeta but Vegeta never beats the villain but the villain never beats Goku essentially. There more nuance than that but you can sum it up like that...

Cell was a great bad guy

5:07 I have a problem with that Gohan in the movie, and especially that transformation that he pulled out of his ass, and one argument is enough to validate my negativity towards that transformation and him, even though I have more than one, but i will only give one, and it's only two words, and whoever doesn't understand them you are not a true Dragon ball fan. Future Gohan.

Vegeta IS a bad martial artist, because he is NOT a martial artist, his whole "elite vs low class" and being astonished by Goku being able to match him during their first fight shows how, similarly to frieza, he isn't really used to training and just relies on his natural strength which he was born with and zenkais, up until the androids saga is when we start seeing him train, but even that shows his lack of formation as he doesn't consider an efficient training regime, instead he just pushes his body to the absolute limit, knowing what goku did and trying to add +1 to whatever method he used, Goku knew the importance of rest and recovery while vegeta trained until he collapsed that how we get Super Vegeta which Goku knew was not effective since the start and decided to go with a different route focuses on stamina which in turn gave him Mastered Super Saiyan It is up until early Buu Saga where we see Vegeta training with kid trunks in a much more chill way while maintaining his super saiyan form