REAL Interview with recruiter for $120,000/Year Developer Job 

"Whats your budget" "No what's you're budget" "No what's YOUR budget?" "No u."

When the recruiter says "I'll keep your resume on file and look out for any other opprotunities" - 50/50 that's recruiter speak for "you just wasted my time"

I feel like these videos empower people. Sometimes job hunting is so demoralizing, because these companies always try to make it feel like it's a honor to work for them. When these companies would be nothing without there employees. I love how you turn the tables on these guys,

I love how he's completely uninterested that you teach code. Meanwhile that's probably one of the most important things because it shows you have a deep enough understanding to be able to teach it. Also I've heard some not so great things about that recruiting company, but I suppose it's not the worst.

These types of videos are better than just talking about interview.

Recruiter interviews are not "real" interviews. They are trying as hard as they possibly can to like you so that they can suggest you to companies, and if you happen to get hired they will make a generous commission. They don't really care about your personality/character flaws, cultural fits, or anything like that bc once you get hired it's not their problem. They don't have to work with you every day.

Recruiters are honestly hit or miss. They either generally are rooting for you and do everything in their power to help you, while others just try to get their commission cut.

Everyones saying how rude he was, he wasnt though. He was very straight forward with the guy giving him quick information. Plus the recruiter was so dry, like 0 emotion. I've had almost this exact conversation several times, and you just have to play their game. You did good Joshua, it's really cool to show people what to expect and how do deal with recruiters.

Developer: "I wrote Ruby on Rails" Recruiter: "We're actually looking for a more senior candidate for this position...."

Hearing this helps calm my anxiety about these calls and give me confidence while applying

"My minimum? 500k bruh! ... I can program all the languages ... I only work remotely from anywhere on the globe, so I'll need them to guaranty a travel budget of an additional $888,000/yr. ... Fullstack bruh ... Ok, so you go back and tell your client the search is over. ... Great, I'll need that in writing, and I'm not signing anything for them. ... My first-year company car must be a matte black Ferrari. ... Ok sounds good, talk to you soon."

Hey Joshua, I'm a software engineer with many years in the business, here is some advice if you'd like it. I wouldn't strictly call this an "interview", but I will discuss this as if it was an interview situation: First, you never want to talk poorly about the company you currently work for when you are asked "Why are you leaving your current job?" It is a question designed to detect if you will badmouth your employer, but more than that, it is an opportunity to show that you know about the company you are applying to. When you are asked this, you should spend very little time on why you dislike your current environment and a lot of time on why you think that this company would provide an ideal environment for you. Second, you say "I can fill multiple tech stacks". This is something that every developer knows, but is not explicitly recognized (especially by HR). Once you know one or two stacks, you have the skills to continue with (mostly) any stack. That is why you should research the tech stacks you think are best and apply to those positions. This way you can limit the amount of research needed to get a software engineering job while eliminating jobs that, quite frankly, you don't want. Finally, avoid recruiters like this guy. There are so many tech companies that getting an interview isn't difficult, and is definitely not worth the cut that these people take. Good luck on your job hunt, hope it goes well!

In Salt Lake City, Utah, take home for $95,000 is gonna be around $67,000, for $120,000 it's gonna be like $83,000 or more. If you did the math at scale the tax increase is only adding around an extra $2,000. Point being don't hose yourself with false information, you'll lose out on a lot more than 25 dollars.

Requirements: “We are looking for a web dev with Wordpress”. Interview: “Solve this data structure exercise. Then interview with 4 devs they just want to know you”. Devs: “What is you fav design pattern? Are you a NASA engineer? What is infinity plus the circumference of an atom?” You: “Forgot how many exceptions names the language have...” Company: “This guy is garbage, next!”.

I'm pretty sure that part about 120k vs 95k being the same take home is way wrong, tax brackets are progressive so if you move up a tax bracket only that part of your wages are taxed at that bracket, like if the brackets are 75k-100k 30%, 100k-150k 40%, and ur making 150k only 50k will be taxed at 40% 25k at 30% etc.

I feel like what is most sad about this is what it says for Rails. In 2011 I distinctly remember recruiters being *shocked* that 1-year experience developers from Pivotal were commanding salaries of $120,000. (At the time a "general" starting salary for most non-Engineers I knew in NYC- lawyers, doctors, media professionals- was around $80K/year). Then from about 2012-2014 Rails developers' salaries seemed to skyrocket- way, way up to $200K/year+. Now it appears by 2018 the salaries have come crashing back down again. I think this video is great and I appreciate you sharing it. What I can relate to most is the tediousness of the questions- I've had many conversations like this- and how much it constantly sounds like the recruiter is totally putting the applicant into a box. And they are. There are some tactical errors you made here: Don't tell them any "low number" - not up front, not after they tell you their number, not ever. There is no "low number" - that's just a game he's playing with you. Don't tell them the number what "you need" or "you want" or "you dream about" - this is all amateur nonsense and both you & the recruiter spend too much time engaging with it. The answer to the "how much" question is always the same: what's the *value* of my work to the company? That might go up or down, and that's the scary part (for both sides), but it's the only true number and the one you should be focused on. The other tactical errors are that recruiters have completely NONSENSE concepts about "doing it every day" and "number of years" and you made a tactical error by telling him you had done Rails a while ago and don't do it currently (Or rather you teach it currently.) The number of technologies we touch in our careers is vast and recruiters have a little concept of what qualifies someone for something or what expertise is. You need to do something for 10,000 hours to be an expert. IF you're on the phone with a recruiter: Just say "I've done it for 10,000 hours and I'm an expert." (And then show them examples.) Doesn't matter how, when, how long, when you started, when you had a gap, whatever. None of that matters. The only right answer is "I'm an expert in this, here's how I can HELP your client NOW, and here's an example of how I was great in the past." Just literally ignore what they say and keep saying this like you're in a political debate and it's your talking point.

Who's being interviewed here, you or the dude on the other end?

I love the ever growing mission behind your channel, Josh. This is the the knowledge no one else has, or if they do, they're not sharing! Been a sub for a long time--I just rarely comment outside live chat.

This was a great vid. Thanks! I have been coding for ever but the recruiter relationship is the one that I still find a real challenge! Thanks! More like this is freakin brilliant!

That's an amazing lesson Josh, you took control, Some bad ass answers,

its been a week that i have started to follow you and i really find your channel very intersting .keep up the good work sir,one like from me.

Hahaha "I wen't to school in Finland, it was dark a lot."

The recruiter wasted your time continuously talking your ear off about essentially nothing. But I see your point about this video Back In 2017 I got a call from a "recruiter" from Amazon who talked my ear off for an hour !!! In the end wasted my time and didnt give me a chance. Recruiters only see resumes and numbers not people.

It’s great you are being transparent with recruiters and exposing their BS 👍

Let me start by saying headhunting and recruiting has a legitimate function, but headhunters and recruiters are largely like realtors. Most of them are absolutely just really bad at their jobs. I've done a lot contracting over the past 10 years and can spot a bad one in a minute. If they ask you questions you have already provided answers to, if they read verbatim off the job description, if they go around in circles saying absolutely little of substance, if they are evasive when you ask basic questions like employer (their client), pay range, etc, then move along.

This was super insightful bro. I've learned so much. Don't wanna sound weird, but man your videos and insight are truly a blessing to my life. "Learn from the wisdom of others" or so I've heard. Keep doing what you do Josh, it really helps.

Yes, Josh, this is very helpful. I sometimes don't know how to strategically handle recruiters in certain situations. Will be happy if you bring more videos like this! :)

Hmm, when they tell you the average is 120, you do NOT say you’re currently at 90. Also, if they ask if you’re looking? You’re not, but you’re always open to opportunities (someone pointed this out). Finally, if they say Ruby, go fucking get it. Tell em 115-150+ variable + equity and you’re a beast

I live in sweden and got offered a 150k/year salary in the bay area. Couldn’t accept it because my whole life is in sweden and it’s complex moving to the states + the benefits in sweden are better. When you are attractive in the market, you are the one asking the questions. This dude did it correctly, some recruiters just bs so he has to be passively aggressive with him. Cudos to you mate!

Wow, that was the most unprofessional interview from the requiter side that I have ever heard. The interviewee also seemed very uninterested, lol

120 for Ruby on Rails in 2019? Where can I sign up

man i've had this call probably a thousand times. its painful to listen to. the second they realize they can't make a quick dollar, most will go into auto-pilot and you'll never hear from them again. this reminds me to flag a few recruiters to not talk to again, so I don't forget. I used to keep a spreadsheet way back, it helps track which recruiters do this so you can route your services through vendors that actually will work for you, provide training, support, mentoring.

Wow, so calm and confident. I wish I could be the same👍

I think both parties in this call did a fine job. But mainly there was a lack of rapport. It's better when the recruiter has already seen your LinkedIn and is recruiting for a specific well-known company because then both parties are more interested. I thought it was weird when the recruiter asked some questions that the resume should have addressed.

This was me 3 years out of school. Then I changed my number!

I’ve been a desk jockey for years, and this was a decent call. My assumption is that guys been behind the desk for 1-2 years.

I am a dev too and recruiters have just become an annoying part of the industry that we all have to get along with. Finding the right devs to fill the right roles is hard. I briefly worked at a company trying to disrupt the recruiting industry with a tech solution so I had a bit of insight into just how varied and hard to find developers can be. This is why the salaries and incentives have gone up so wildly. Yes, more and more people are joining the tech industry, but the tech industry is growing faster than the workforce an accomodate. Companies, especially startups become restricted by being unable to find the right candidate. Sometimes an unfit dev ( not a bad one, but one with the wrong skillset) can be worse than no dev, especially in the startup world where your first 10 employees can make or break your company. In short, they are a necessary evil. Nobody likes dealing with them but it is what it is.

that recruiter was actually pretty good he got a lot of good info and was pretty decent about everything

when he said "hope this video wasn't helpful" he actually meant " !hope this video wasn't helpful "

Since recruiters are so ubiquitous, you have to play their game. Don’t tell them how much your currently making, when they ask, say you prefer not to disclose. When they tell you the average ask for the upper limit. Also applying directly almost never works because companies don’t want to hire FTEs because there’s too much risk and to fire someone you have someone else do it for you. Thus they rather have contractors. Source: I was a recruiter for a few weeks then quit.

1:51 someone who is experienced in Ruby ..... and rails... LOL

Dude, there is a huge difference between 95K and 120K. Why do you think it's only $25 difference? Don't short-change yourself. Also, the recruiter was fairly open and encouraging, so I hope that you give a different set of advice about landing the job. ALWAYS sound enthusiastic, even if it's a waste of your time. I got recruited into my $120K dream job from a random phone call that I initially wasn't even going to respond to, but they were persistent. Been there for 9 years, and it gets better every year. Also, on your salary range, go high. It can't hurt. They will respect you more. They think it's rather childish to take the noble stance that money doesn't mean that much to you. Money is the bottom line to the company even if it is only 5th or 6th on your list of important things. I've been doing this for over 20 years, so I have a lot of experience with different companies. My favorite job is the one that I have now, all via a recruiter's phone call. This recruiter even groomed me for the interview and we had a mock interview before the real thing. She earned her commission well. Hope you and others can be so fortunate.

I can't help but notice how generic that recruiter is. I've been having that same chat with recruiters for 5 years, and not one of them ever gets back to you. That type of chat, I only get with new recruiters that don't know how to play the numbers. Now, the calls go more like this: "Tell me a short bit about what you did, why you got into mobile, and what you're looking for" but like, 5 minutes... then "What is your salary requirement" then you play the keyword-matching game so they can schedule interview #2. If it goes longer, it's usually them saying "I got nothing but I'm too shy to cut the call." Enfec is the only company that asks the above via email, literally everyone else wants that phone call... so you'll have the same phone call two hundred times in a year.

I am a recruiter and must say I am also embarrassed, is this is an US interview? if yes, the salary topic gets always very weird, due to ridiculous rules. I am always super straight forward

lol. i never ask for a specific number anymore. some places say i'm worth 60k for a first SE job, some switched gears when i asked 110-120k, others didn't bat an eye for 140k so i was like clearly none of these ranges are standard. just let them come up with the numbers first.

Really enjoyed this type of 'real interview' videos! Way to go, Joshua! I actually think the head hunter sounded like a nice guy lol

The short answers make sense if you have to do tons of these, but detailing why you're a qualified fit and getting more follow up interviews is a safer way to play it in my opinion. Most tech recruiters aren't technically skilled, but they know some detailed requirements from the account manager they're recruiting for that maintains the relationship with the company (their client). If it's a smaller recruiting firm then the recruiter may speak with the client directly. This video is helpful, but my personal recommendation is to be nicer and sound more interested to recruiters so you can land more follow up interviews with the actual company and make your determination on the job based on speaking to people who actually work at the company. Often but not always, recruiters are young and trying to put up great candidates for companies and they are in a sales-based role that's a really tough grind. Job-seekers are flaky, they can no-show for interviews, stop replying to emails, or even just have a terrible interview with the client. This is the risk of sending a job-seeker through: your reputation as a recruiter with the client so they want to find someone who they believe is a great fit. The idea that recruiters are assholes is just plain false, find one who will go to bat for you and keep the relationship open for next time you're job searching. Playing the dance for salary is okay in terms of declining to specify how much you currently make but you should answer skill/personality/interest questions thoroughly and honestly. The recruiter asks how much you want to make because if you want to make 200k and they're only recruiting for a 120k position, then they're going to look absolutely stupid setting you up for an interview when you immediately decline the salary offer. It's literally this simple, help them not waste the clients' time. Instead of saying he doesn't actively use Rails he could've mentioned the awesome things he's done with the framework in the past and said he actively teaches it. Boom, already the type of person they're looking for without the negative sounding message of him not doing it everyday. Also he mentions languages he doesn't know, why? Just talk about the ones you feel you've mastered and how you've really excelled at picking up new languages in a very short amount of time since you understand the core methodology. The talk about Finland and his degree was great, made him sound interesting and was genuine. The recruiter needs to be more okay with open ended questions rather than giving suggested responses. He will ask a question and then provide like 4 answers, just ask the question and use that as a way to get more detailed, genuine responses from the job-seeker. Just my thoughts, hope this helps all those job searching!

if hes saying they pay 120 then why are you asking for upper 90s? you say 135

I actually started recruiting to try to address the experiences I had been recruited for. There's a variety of personalities that enter that industry. Like the gold rush for lost professionals, and when they fail this role - they become career coaches. Have a passion for an industry, dive in and experience it, later if you still want to be relevant give back and align professionals with companies who do not have capacity or cycles to attact the right people with value.

I had a recruiter call me earlier this week, tried to press me on what salary I was seeking, told him my last job(s) paid around £55,000 (GBP Sterling). Eventually the recruiter conceded that his client was only looking at 25-30k, total waste of time.

If you want to make proper money go into recruitment, you don't need to know anything or do much work and it pays really well. My wife's cousin earned $40,000 for 'finding' a developer for a large tech company. It took him 3 days. If you can't do that, try managing tech guys, you can pretend you are smart, spout tech buzzwords and claim credit for the projects that actual tech guys solve, but without doing anything.

"Ok!"

Good thing Utah is a single party consent state.

I've actually had a recruiter help me with my resume a bit. I really hope that woman still has that initiative if she's still doing recruiting.

Talking to the recruiter isn't an interview. It's just a formality to place you with the right department. The hiring manager will ultimately interview you and accept/reject you.

you don't got the look for 120k job, you look $7.99 top.

This dude has no personality. He acts like he is some sort of genius master hacker.

This whole corporate bs has taken a toll on you Lol your not even playing the “game” anymore your going straight to the point lol respect

Thanks for posting these man. I'm currently going to start applying for my fist web dev job and these interviews are helping a ton!

*breathes* "Awesome."

One thing to keep in mind around income bracket differences. While you will pay more taxes on the higher income you can offset that by putting it into your pension. It wont affect local taxes, but should reduce federal taxes (if it works similar to the UK that is). Just means you can build your pension pot faster when on a higher income.

What i dont understand is, every company wants a 5+ year experience, but how do we get 5 years without even being accepted in a job?. They could just accept us, and earn our loyalty, instead of finding mid 30s men that switch jobs 3 times a year. We young ones could learn, and stay loyal. These businesses really lack in that aspect.

It’s interesting how your demeanor changed doing the interview. I would argue you should keep that wonderful personality shining through. :)

Cybercoders. You said that more than once in the video. Censoring it was funny XD

Most unprofessional recruiter ever.

I was an IT recruiter in my twenties. Made a ton of money. It’s a cutthroat business and if you don’t hit your numbers your out. So, this recruiter is a rookie. He probably isn’t in the industry anymore. He doesn’t speak IT lingo. He doesn’t know what Ruby on Rails is, nor can he talk to you about the job req. Also for the record if that job was going to pay you $120 an hour for a short/medium term contract. His employer is billing the client $240 an hour. The business development rep makes $20 an hour, recruiter makes $20 an hour, the rest of it goes to the house and then your $120 an hour. But that was painful conversation to watch. Keep up the good work on generating content, love the channel.

Recruiter interviews aren't real interviews.

lol at this point of my career you seem like a rock star to me xD

Good video man!

Recruiters get a cut of their paycheck for the first 3 months of the job!!

Fake; he's not even moving and doing weird things while he's phoning

Just now noticed your merch. Super excited to buy CONST HUSTLE a hoodie woo!! Thanks for sharing all the super useful info. You're making the world a better place, my dude.

So why is he calling you if you're unqualified?

You get the situation in the UK where recruiters put out fake job adverts, accept applications and bait-and-switch you with the whole thing about discussing your career aspirations, what your future plans are, we'll see if there's anything for you in the future etc. All about harvesting details. Either that job was fake or it's already been filled.

8:53 not how tax brackets work

I have been seeing the situations where recrutiers just dont even think about how they would market a client. They seem to only be looking for that slam dunk applicant that is a shoe in for the position. They do not use the fact that you may have a ton of applicable experience in addition to the technical but are only interested in the technical saying that they "Meet the qualifications", they dont try to properly sell you as a possible applicant to the employer.

So you’re telling me, in the States you can earn 90k with 3 years of coding experience? In the UK you’d be lucky to get 30k with that. One of my old Seniors, who was an insanely intelligent full stack dev with 8 years formal experience, only got about 35k.

The recruiter is so weird, like he has several conversations going on at the same time. He keeps forgetting what they are talking about. I wonder if he gets back to you after this call.

That's cool that you put this out there, gives me more insight on how to deal with recruiters. I get a few of them that reach out to me weekly, we usually communicate via email but I may start calling them directly.

Every 5 seconds you look at the camera with this disgusted and passive aggressive look. Cmon man

Can you give us update on your google interview?

Don’t sell yourself short. For people who is in tech for more than 2 years and proud of their work should be paid at least 6 figures

You never realize how much you spit when you talk until there's a close up camera and a backlight...

Bruh, "I teach it" how would that in qualify someone -_- smh

Could you be more real? Lol You are still so genuine and honest lol

I HATE RECRUITERS I WISH YOU COULD JUST APPLY TO JOBS DIRECTLY. They annoy you at work if you are already have one and just want an upgrade.

As someone from easter europe i didn't sense any rudeness or passive agressiveness from Joshua what's mentioned in the comments. Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe not but in my opinion he handled the conversation in a normal manner with some jokes here and there to not sound like a computer. Also given the situation that he TEACHES the language what they offered a position for and gets told off, he has every right to be pissed at the recruiter.

Huh…. so this is what a software engineering interview is like. Interesting.

nice video man ) Greetings from Kyiv

In my experience when they talk about other opportunities other than the one they called you for, it means they dump your resume aka you. Too many dumb fishes in the sea for them to catch and throw in the corporate fire. Corporate world sucks.

It doesn't matter whether or not you have 10+ years of experience with a huge portfolio, they want you to respond stupid questions and pass through code challenges.

Q: How much is your "I can't believe I'm earning that much?" A: 500k basic + performance bonuses in the millions.

2:31 First person to say a number loses. LOL! Rules of negotiating.

Regarding finland is dark. I live in sweden. Same shit. Cold dark rainy, more than half the year. And people wonder why i dont want to play Skyrim. A game that's just looks cold and dark.

How many interviews do you do in a year? 😂

No better job than learning to trade online - no employer controlling you.

As a novice comp sci student currently taking data structures, I subbed.

Don't know shit about coding yet but will keep this video in my favorites to rewatch again in a couple years.

Uh, I wanna be a lead dev or project manager, I like working with people but I wanna work remotely. Good luck with that.

It's actually a bad idea to talk to a recruiter about a company and then applying directly. My friend has been through this situation and the company will not see you in good light because your name has already been passed to them through the recruiting company.