Yes. This resonated with me. Not a lot of focus on this but bam! We know Alex’s phone pinged down the street that night. He totally left his phone in his car and hoofed it down to Chads house to help him out with this thing that needed to be done.
@@WolvesinFranceNo, Melanie Polowski, the niece. She expected Alex to join them in Hawai but he had to stay behind to help Chad with something. It was mid October 2019 when Tammy died. Boom. Mike drop.
@@susannacafarelli8336would Chub really risk having Alex in the house when other Family members lived there?. Chub has more then proved hes capable of anything!😮
As an archaeologist I really enjoyed Prior trying to say that a charm couldn’t stay on the ground surface for 9 months. Bro, stuff can stay at or near ground surface for 100s/1000s of years. With the right training it’s not hard to find that kind of thing.
Good to hear a professionals take on this, because common sense says it could sit on the surface. I think the snow covering it for months somewhat held it in place. This was an area of the yard left untouched (ya know.... besides digging graves for murdered victims). Side note, that detective was amazing when he questioned if the lawn had been mowed. The length of the lawn would absolutely depend on the the type of grass, and the frequency of mowing the lawn would also vary with grass types I am currently planting a type of fescue that grows slow and doesn't need to be cut that often.
@@ivory8581 the snow definitely helped. Also, it helps the prosecution because it shows that Tylee (or someone wearing/carrying her jewelry) was some distance from the fire pit and grave. If she was buried without Chad knowing then why move around the property any more than absolutely necessary? I really liked this witness, but part of that was because the ERT process is very similar to archaeological excavations and I was nerding out. That and he handled himself well despite the heavy topic.
Yep, and I don’t think Chad was sleeping with Tami at this point. I bet Chad was sleeping up there and Alex snuck into their bedroom and killed Tami. Just my opinion.
@@bobbicatt YES: There is a credible theory that Chad was living up there and sleeping apart from his wife -- and had been doing so for some time. Whenever Tammy's death is mentioned, the room she was found in has always been referred to as HER bedroom.
@@bobbicatt I wonder if Garth found her after Alex killed her, and then got Chad and to save face about the separate rooms, they carried her up to Chad's bed. I think Garth had gotten home around 1 am from work.
Yeah. I learned that when watching Lauren's video during one of the breaks (or her later video), that Julie Rowe was wearing mostly black and a baseball cap. And the thought was maybe she was trying to pull a Melonie P., by watching the trial so she didn't have to testify.
I actually applauded Agent Daniels in how he handled Prior’s cross. Daniels didn’t fall for the leading, manipulative questions. He thought about his answers and stood firm. Prior should leave the upstairs/downstairs alone. He’s just digging a deeper hole. Somebody HAD a been sleeping in the second story on June 9 … Detective Hermosillo said Garth said his father was asleep UPSTAIRS. I think Ian Palowski was also a very important witness of the day. Melanie was important, but she was evasive and that became clear when we heard the recordings. Watch Daybell when Melanie is answering Prior’s cross about Zombies. Daybell is looking directly at Melanie, raises his eyebrows,stares at her intently and shakes his head ..she stops talking for several seconds and then avoids the answer … at which point Daybell grins. I pray the State is proving their case. Daybell needs to be put away for life.
JP looks like a fool over this line of questioning. Other witnesses have spoken of the second “upstairs” level of the house. The “Cozy Cone” is not some detached outbuilding workshop. Tammy knew about Lori so Chad was not living “under the stairs at the Dursleys,” but rather living “upstairs” in the loft room overlooking his zombie cemetery. I think JP lost a lot with his unwillingness to drop this.
Melani said Alex was supposed to be in Hawaii with them but chad needed his help with something so he didn’t attend, wasn’t that the same time tammy was killed?!!
I am screaming at the tv.. in the police video Chad tells Emma to get the mattress out of the upstairs bedroom! Go take a listen.. Chad called it that on the police video
I don’t think anyone picked up on the fact that when Heather Daybell testified, Pryor kept asking her about a car being at the church, and Heather kept saying that Tammy drove the truck more than Chad, but Pryor kept hammering her about the vehicle….now, go back to a few witnesses before, where the detective was reading Alex’s search history, and one of his searches was whether a bullet would go through a specific vehicle, and it was the very truck that Heather said Tammy drove more often. Everyone was confused as to why he was asking Heather about that truck, there is your answer.
I also think that Alex got into the house and assisted with the actual killing. Looking at the bruising on Tammy's body, it would appear that someone held her arms down while another person held the pillow. The pillow would have to be held firmly and tight for a while, so Tammy would have no way to turn her head and scream for help. It would be hard for just one person to hold the arms and support the pillow, and of course they wanted this all to go smoothly, with no chance that Tammy could scream for the kids to come.
Prior asked to be taken off the Daybell Trial. He is not a Death Penalty Lawyer, but he has been appointed by Judge to complete his defense. He also said he wasn’t being paid for the work. That’s why Chad’s property is now owned by his attorney.
@@orcitychickhe was not appointed by the judge. Chad hired him so it’s his own fault he didn’t get a death penalty lawyer. He was given chads house as payment for his fee. Then a month before the trial prior asked to be released from the case and that’s when the judge denied him.
@@kimsmith5083 he recently requested removal from the case, the judge ruled that he must continue, if you have been following, you should have known. Chad originally hired him, but now the judge has ordered him to remain on the case.
The reason he requested removal a few weeks prior to the trial is because he knew the judge would appoint him so close to the trial and then the state of Idaho pays attorney fees along with witness expenses. There’s no more money left for Chad to pay these high Expenses. It’s not uncommon for this to happen.
I think Ian is a hero in this story or more might have died. Thanking Ian for being brave, going to the police, and taping these monsters, to try and find these children.👍👍👍
100% the witness was more credible. She was very clear she hadn’t been there and was simply repeating what she heard from Chad Daybell. Prior comes across as very shady and trying to twist things to meet his needs at the time. Major damage done here to Prior imo.
We have seen pictures of the inside of the home's addition and it's more like a loft than a second story. Nonetheless it has stairs! We know, according to the data evidence, that Alex Cox was parked 2.5 miles away from the Daybell home in a church parking lot. IMO Chad would not have stayed in the marital bed once Tammy was murdered. He let Alex into the home through the door on the addition, then through the door where the addition connects to the home and into Chad & Tammy's bedroom where either Chad AND Alex, or Alex alone, ended Tammy's life. Alex could then exit the same way he came in. Prior does not want the jury to even have the option of Chad having slept in the addition and the detective shot that all to 💩! On another note... Thank goodness Melani P & Alex did not get access to her children the night Alex drove her to Brandon's parents home! Instead she was arrested for trespassing. Two of the names on Chad's "dark" list were the nicknames for two of her children. Thank you Ian Pawlowski for wearing a wire to save your new wife's children!
Yes, was it Mel P trespassing on Brandons garden. Alex drove her there, but I can't remember what day it was she turned up bc it was past midnight/nearly 1am. She wanted to give her kids something didn't she and Brandon called the cops? It was nearly 1am in the morning and the kids were obvs in bed. She was concerned about the kids not being in school for months she said. She said she had a court order to shared custody, that was in the envelope she was holding. The cops finally read it, but said it wasn't a CO but an agreement.
I don’t believe the importance of the stairs is about the stairs. I believe Chad screwed up at the funeral - admitting that he and Tammy didn’t sleep in the same bedroom. There is something far more significant about the fact that he was likely in that upper bedroom- where it would also have been easy to let Alex into the house from, and/or hide while Tammy was being unalived. Idk what happened exactly- but the STAIRS matter because Chad is desperate to NOT let people know he wasn’t in the the bedroom with Tammy.
Wasn’t Tammy laying half off the bed and already in rigor when paramedics showed up? Chad would have a hard time explaining how he slept through his wife unexpectedly dying and somehow slipping off the bed. And he slept while she lay dead half off the bed for hours because by the time he woke up and called 911, she was in rigor. He might as well admit that he was sleeping in the loft. He told his daughter to take the mattress downstairs after he was arrested and sitting in the police car. So there was a mattress in the loft that he was sleeping on.
One witness testified that the stairs went from upstairs to the kitchen. And even if it’s a “separate structure,” the family was using it as a spare bedroom
I think it was Heather Daybell and she pointed to the external kitchen window that was directly next to the external wall of the 'cozy cone'... and inside of the extension first floor looked finished enough to have a chest freezer (electricity) & drywall then upstairs had outlets & carpet
There are photos online from when the house was for sale just prior to Tammy and Chad buying it and it is literally right off of the kitchen area. On hidden true crime last night or the night before they walked through all the photos and it was really clear that it didn’t require leaving the main house, also that it has electricity and we also have other trial evidence that there was a bed in there. Prior is so sleazy for what he is trying to do here since he messed up so bad by being deceptive.
@@teresacorrigan3076I don't think he deserves a mental illness cop-out. He had all of his faculties, knew exactly what he was doing. He was a nerdy chubby guy just so selfish and desperate for attention he made up crap to elevate himself. Some people are just evil. Chad is not mentally ill. He is just a horrible human being.
I think him threatening Lori when see broke it off with him by saying he couldn’t use his powers to protect her from the darkness if they weren’t together tells us how controlling he was.
That is a tactic used by Joseph Smith, Jr. founder of the LDS church to coerce his wife into agreeing to polygamy and force other women to agree to marry him. He would threaten their (some of them very young) salvation and exhalation of their whole family. Sorry, according to him, God threatened them.
@@tjkasglokay...that's gross. It does not matter how messed up she is... don't advocate for men to touch women without consent. There is no such thing as "withholding her body" no one is entitled to touch anyone sexually or otherwise.
The defense placing so much emphasis on the one vs two story debate is a mistake. If that’s one of the best arguments they are trying to make to discredit witness testimony then it’s a win for the prosecution because the defense is appearing desperate and reaching.
Prior is so screwed. The jury must already think he has tried to pull the wool over their eyes. If Chad was innocent, he would not have to do that. He’s done.
I think the upstairs/downstairs issue is irrelevant. Prior keeps trying to make it a thing & it's getting on my nerves at this point. I think it makes Prior look ridiculous & desperate. There is obviously an upstairs & doesn't matter how you have to get to it. That is IRRELEVANT!
The most chilling part of the Lori Vallow trial was the trip to Hawaii that Lori and Melani and Andrea took. Andrea B. Testified about how upset Melani was the whole time, and Lori was trying to get her to be strong. I think she was freaking out because she knew what happened to Loris kids and to Tammy and she knew her “dark” kids were next.
The lawyer that was escorted out of the courtroom was sued by Brandon B for all kinds of stuff and won 12 million dollars. He also got in a lot of trouble for recording a conversation between Melani Pawlawski and Rob Wood the DA
Peter, Lauren Mathias at Hidden True Crime noticed in the recording that Melanie cried as she said she was happy that Alex would be with her 2 children, Brax and Bri (?) in the next life. Lauren found a text between C and L from last year that 2 of Mel. P's kids were dark, near death. A loyalty test?
Breezy was a nickname for one of Melani's kids. Lauren made a hell of a catch there, watch it Peter it's eye opening. Mel should be charged with something. Conspiracy, wil!ing to let hers be killed?
@@Txfreeandlovenit oh. This whole story, while entertaining.. it is heart breaking and scary as heck that people like this exist and usually do not get caught.
I'm an ex-Mormon here watching this case and feeling so sick about how many of my past beliefs overlapped this crazy stuff. Thanks for doing the great work of making sense of it all for us!
I was born & raised in a family of Roman Catholic’s(my family’s choice of this went back several generations) BUT no one in the family would explain anything to me, for ONE EXAMPLE was saying and using the rosary. No one would tell me about “the man hanging on the cross”, no one ever read from The Holy Bible, ever. Years AFTER I was married and 2 days after my father-in-law died(he was a born again Christian😀) my own mother told me on the phone that she was “praying for his soul in purgatory”, so I had my Bible with me(my spouse and children were headed for Sunday praise & worship) and I asked my mother 1)WHERE EXACTLY in The Bible does it mention to say the rosary?, 2)WHERE EXACTLY in The Bible does it say to “pray to Mary, St. Patrick, St. Anne, St. Christopher, and all the others”), 3)WHERE EXACTLY in The Bible does it say to go to “confessionals” to a priest? I asked my mother to tell me EXACTLY WHERE to look in The Bible to “find” these things, and she, of course, could NOT HONESTLY answer ANY of my questions. In fact, she cussed at me and THEN she hung up her telephone. IF anything is NOT Biblically sound, NOT in The Bible, such as the Mormon, Roman Catholic, Scientology, Jehovah Witness “teaching/beliefs” for a few examples, THEN it IS ungodly. P.S. I was also going to Sunday worship & praise that Sunday with my spouse and children. And yes, I believe what The Lord Jesus Christ HIMSELF told ALL people in John 3:16-17 and I confessed to HIM that I am a sinner & asked HIM to forgive me, and I accepted HIM as my Lord and Savior. This is NOT “a religion”, this IS a personal relationship with HIM.
From the pictures it looks like a ‘frog’ (family room over garage) or bedroom. The room connecting the ‘frog’ to the house contains a freezer and looks like it could’ve a storage room/mudroom/prepper room. (‘Frog’ is the nickname used on hgtv for the room. It could be a family room, bedroom, craft room, music room, guest room, anything you want it to be. LOL. Atty Pryor could even use it as his office after the trial is over. LOL)
Melanie has helped remove the doubt of who was in charge. Chad, and his special gift of spiritual discernment, ability to allocate whether a person was light, dark or a zombie and when to deem a life should expire coupled with Chad's role to organise the Church of the First Born provides a clear indication that Chad was in charge. Alex looked up to Chad and saw him as a brother he also trusted him and what he was saying again she made it clear Chad certainly did not fear Alex. To learn Alex skipped the trip to Hawaii as he had to stay back to help Chad with something makes it pretty clear Tammy was that 'something' she was referring to. She also confirmed it was October 2019. Chad's grave just keeps getting deeper
@@justmeinidaho777 true. Based on their ages, I would think her relationship with them was more like a niece and nephew. Apparently, she had no true feelings for them. Brandon cried, the detective cried. That whole bunch has some broken switches in their conscious.
We say, in a classical yoga practice, may the entire universe be filled with peace, joy, love, and light. May the light of truth overcome all darkness. But we don’t rate people degrees of dark and light. It’s important to recognize the sick and twisted way these people, and other cult leader wannabes, twist something good into something of horror.
I actually enjoy it each time the judge admonishes John Prior for talking over the witnesses and interrupting him!..Priors rapid fire questioning doesn't get him anywhere. During Chads prelim hearing in aug 2020, Prior seemed obsessed with the raccoon Chad claimed to have killed and buried in their pet cemetery, like what he's been doing now regarding the stairs..😮
***Peter .. Melani was supposed to testify in Lori’s trial, but watched her ex husband Brandon testify, and even tho she was already in Idaho to testify, she was sent home.
Hello everyone! Yes we do need to hear from Peter! I am also watching the trial about the 6 year old child that was made to run on the treadmill. Very sad.
@@vitalucas9452Insecure, small minded bully, that needed to bully those much weaker to make himself feel powerful! He should be locked up for life! He tortured that lil boy!
@@catherinemcdavid1533what she is referring to is Garrett Smith was Melani’s lawyer in the custody case and because of the lies he spewed of Brandon, Brandon then sued him and they settled on 12 million dollars.
Prior is just drawing attention to the fact that he lied. He also broke the Golden Rule. Never ask a question that you don't know the answer to. Chump move.
Isn't the difference between the dark/alive and the dark/not alive people the fact the alive ones were not obstacles to Chad and Lori's romantic and financial desires?
If I were on the jury, Prior’s credibility would be blown. It’s a second floor ATTACHED and Chad could very well have been sleeping and/or working there and mentioned this to the family members. Prior is being slimy to say there is no second floor to the house/that Chad couldn’t have been on a second floor when he obviously could.
I am glad to hear that. Brandon seems like an upstanding man. He certainly doesn’t deserve any malicious behavior from his ex-wife or her legal representation.
What scares me is the texts from Chad, Lori and Melanie regarding Melanie's children. I sincerely hope Brandon is watching her closely because she had talked about 2 of her children being dark. Those texts came out in Lori's trial but so far not in this one. Melanie knows a lot more than she's saying. She still seems to be trying to protect Lori. Melanie, Zulima, and Melanie Gibb should all be in jail, in MY opinion.
@@TxfreeandlovenitGlad you stated that your last statement is an opinion. You know what opinions are like? _____holes. Every body has one. They all stink! Where is your evidence/proof? I hope you never get charged for a crime based on opinions. Let’s just let law enforcement/prosecutors do their jobs. Arizona isn’t done with the Charles Vallow and Brandon B. cases yet.
Thanks for the recap; I understand what is happening better when you explain. Nate Eaton also said Julie Rowe showed up today, trying to get into court. I was happy to finally hear what Melaine Palowski says. Today was a crazy day.
Prior definitely screwed himself when he obviously lied about the Daybell's house not having a second story. I think that Chad and Tammy were sleeping in separate beds when Tammy was murdered. IMO Chad was sleeping in the second floor bedroom while Tammy slept in a bedroom on the first floor. I think that Chad left the door unlocked for Alex to murder Tammy while he hid in his second for bedroom. Also, I think that the plan was for Chad to find Tammy in bed in the morning, but Alex got spooked and left her on the floor, and Garth found his Mom's body when he got done work that night. I think that Chad spent the next few hours convincing Garth that he had to lie to the police about his parents sleeping in separate rooms and about how he found his mother's body. I think that they called 911 after they got their story straight and they had cleaned up as much of the pink foam as they could. I think that Prior doesn't want the jury to know that Tammy and Chad were sleeping in separate bedrooms because that would prove that Chad lied about Tammy's death.
When Alex had shot at Tammy with the (paint ball) gun a few weeks prior Garth was home at the time Either way Chad was setting up Garth to be part of his alibi
@@jenniferb2864read /heard a few times on u tube channels that Allegedly Tammy said someone pointed a rifle at her, and it was channels who Allegedly saidvto her it was probably a paint ball😮?
I don't think it matters if its used as a bedroom or not, Chad changed his story a few times about Tammy death , so his inconsistency is what I'm paying attention to.
Really? I quite enjoy criminal court trials. I like the process and the order. I like trying to see if “my objections” are the same as the prosecution’s. There’s definitely a lot of slower moments and tedium, and it’s not for everyone. Peter is golden for both types!
Melanie’s mom passed when she was young which for me explains her closeness with Lori and then Chad which aLao explains why she would call them mom & dad - she was easily influenced.
Peter,…so sad I missed your live. I have a HUGE question. After listening to the voice recordings from when Ian Palowski taped Melanie, the night of their honeymoon, I don’t understand why Melanie was never charged. It’s REALLY CLEAR that she knows A LOT MORE than she’s saying. She showed up in court today with two lawyers trailing behind her. COX FAMILY lawyers. One of them was asked to leave the courtroom!! ❓❓DO YOU THINK SHE COULD HAVE USE IMMUNITY, LIKE Wendi Adelson did, where she agreed to testify as long as nothing she said can be used against her❓❓❓ Would they have to make that clear to the court❓❓.
I think it's because Ian showed up as a light angel for her in the nick of time, to use the case vernacular...😊 He immediately understood something was wrong and contacted the police and I believe acted to protect himself and his new wife. The cops were still casting their net at that time and he helped shift it off her. Cooperation paves roads to freedom.
Her, Zulima and Melanie Gibb should all be in jail. Maybe after all this is over they'll go after them next, because they ALL knew Lori and Chad killed all these people.
Even with Prior's supposed mic drop moment about it being a one story house, I don't think it destroyed the witness's credibility in the first place. Putting myself in her place, I would not have necessarily remembered exactly what Chad said about the bedroom and office locations, but it would definitely have stood out that he gave two different explanations of what happened to Tammy. Her not remembering the exact wording does not, in my mind, invalidate the substance of her testimony. BUT, the stair issue blowing up the way it has, and Prior's obvious grasping at straws to double down on it being a one story house has definitely ruined his own credibility.
Prior is just pullin any tiny string he can find. He wanted to be off the case and thus his behaviour. Witnesses here are just great. They speak for ALL of the victims here.
Is there anything a judge will or can do if an attorney continues to talk over witnesses and then the judge himself? Have been waiting gor someone to hit on the judge's clear annoyance with Pryor for this.
Hold him in contempt? Not sure how that would work aside from fining him though. Since there is no co-counsel, throwing Prior out of court would leave Chad without representation which would effectively stop the trial. I'm sure the judge doesn't want to do that.
Holy moly today was insane. I can’t wait to hear PETER!!!! Can we zoom in and see if the lawyer was really nodding?? Can he not do that? Can we talk about that…
TBH, if I were on that jury, then I would be getting more suspicious of John Pryor's fixation with this staircase and second story. I recall that the original mention was up and down and may have been interpreted it as a stairway. Could have been up or down the hall. John Pryor is bringing so much attention to this when there are probably more important issues. I am not a lawyer so I dont know but stairs or no stairs seem to be minor in comparison to 3 dead bodies on his property.
If Emma Daybell is questioned, would it be fair to ask her why (in the cop cam video) she never questioned her dad about the human remains or how they got there?
Chad’s play was SO LAME! I cannot believe these people were so thirsty to belong to something. A stupid necklace spinning around? Sounds like a gypsy fortune teller. God bless Tammy, Tylee and little JJ.
I think the woman was still more credible. She just said what she heard. It could have been down or up hall stairs whatever. I think he should have just let it go. He's made such a big deal out of it that I didn't think he really had to. It was a tiny hit he made a large hit.
Any credibility that MAY have been lost by the initial witness, who testified about not being in the house and testified Chad used the word downstairs, was restored. Prior may be trying to redeem himself but, he is too late. If Prior goes to the 2nd story topic going forward, it will become very obvious (if it hasn't already) he is trying too hard to correct his error. If he is smart, he will not mention it again. But, Prior wasn't smart enough to decline a high profile, death penalty murder case in which he had zero experience. Today's testimony was very detrimental to the defense, even on cross. Chad and Lori manipulated many people close to them to get them to do their bidding. They manipulated Melani Gibb, Melanie Pawlowski, Alex and Zulema Cox, other friends to try to cover their azz. Wonder what Alex had to help Chad with so he couldn't go on the trip to Hawaii - hmmmmm? Interesting that Tammy died while Lori and Melanie were on the trip to Hawaii that Alex couldn't go on after all. Priorities get in the way and sometimes we have to change our travel plans, especially when we have to help murder someone. In addition, I think the prosecution pretty much has a guilty verdict all wrapped up in tight package. At this point, the defense witnesses will be for entertainment purposes in this comedy of errors.
Chad Daybell is doomed and Prior knows it. He's going to continue to give it all he's got to the end, arrogant as he is! We know Lori and Alex's part in these murders, but I think there were others involved, whether indirectly or directly.
To keep making such a big deal of this upstairs issue, isn't smart. He loses credibility every time he does. He needs to stop right fighting. If i were a jurer I would only think stop beating the dead horse all ready.
If I was on this jury I would be over Prior with him testifying in questioning witnesses and talking over them when he's not liking the way wittness answer is going. You can see the judge getting annoyed with constantly having to remind Prior. Take note lawyers, you never want to annoy jurors.
Chad knew his history, Alex seems to be Chad and Lori's, Orrin Porter Rockwell (June 28, 1813 or June 25, 1815 - June 9, 1878) was a figure of the Wild West period of American history. A lawman in the Utah Territory, he was nicknamed Old Port, The Destroying Angel of Mormondom and Modern-day Samson. Rockwell served as a bodyguard, and was a personal friend, of Latter Day Saint movement founder Joseph Smith. After Smith's death in 1844, Rockwell became a bodyguard of his successor, Brigham Young, and traveled with him and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) to the Salt Lake Valley in the present-day U.S. state of Utah.
You mean, Porter (Avenging Angel) was Joseph Smith and Brigham Young’s faithful assassin ? That was all just as shady as all of this mess but it is somehow glorified in LDS folklore.
I don’t believe Porter Rockwell was a member of the LDS church. He was suspected of shooting at the Missouri governor but always in plead his innocence on account of “he wouldn’t have missed”.
I believe the witness, in the video Chad says I came from upstairs. The jury will also view again the video with Chad and his daughter. Prior is really doing his job but it’s like climbing Everest with only summer clothes on.
Well, didn't they take LOTS OF PHOTOs of when Tammy died that they have already shown to the jury? So the jurors have already seen what room she died in? And didn't Chad ask Emma to move a mattress while he was sitting in the back of a police car?
Chad was no longer sleeping with Tammy. Tammy knew about the affair and he was sleeping up there. Melanie and Ian said Alex stayed back to help Chad with something so he couldn't go to Hawaii with Lori. Chad and Alex killed Tammy. Alex came in thru that "man" door and met Chad and they killed Tammy. Melanie knows much more than she's saying. What's going on with the attorney getting kicked out and I hear Julie Rowe got kicked out today too.
