In the United states, the 2024 Camry hybrid option is around $2k option and the car will pay for itself in a few years and Toyota warranty the battery for 150k. Forget Honda for hybrid. Toyota is king on this tech.
@@charliem432Then buy somewhere else for MRSP or less. If you do not see any reason to buy a hybrid, that gets its price differential (vs. the ICE alternative) covered from savings in a few years - battery change price included - then don't buy one. I covered the price difference in less than two years, so I am enjoying the savings I am making until the battery change (probably around 2K), after probably 14 total years of use.
37 000 euros (lowest trim) in Lithuania with shipping to Ireland. It still noticeably more expensive than Corolla Hybrid (29 000 €, lowest trim) and on par with Camry.
That's crazy! 50k Euro is about $70k my countries money! A few months ago I got myself a 2024 Civic Sedan Sport and it came out to right about $40k out-the-door. Our sports come with a sunroof, heated steering wheel, heated seats, remote start, all the safety nonsense (have turned off everything except blind spot and front collision braking), LED headlights, blah blah blah. That price also included Honda Extended warranty up to 6 years/100k km comprehensive and the all weather floor mats, trunk mat and rear mudflaps and I also got a 4 year rim and tire protection package.. The rim and tire I got because I was concerned those 18" rims will get some nicks on them but now that I got it, I could have some myself a few hundred bucks not getting it. Live and learn. We don't get the Hybrid Hatchback where I'm from (yet) so can't do a comparison between the gas and hybrid versions but we do get the 2025 Sedan in both gas and hybrid and the hybrid is only about $2k more so for most folks it would make sense to get the hybrid. The hybrid wasn't available here for 2024 but even if it was I'd still get the gas. Only drive about 1,000km (600 miles) a month, a bit less in the winter, so fuel costs really aren't a concern to me. Gas has been hovering about $1.60 a liter +/- for awhile now here in my parts.
Ireland has been breaking EU law for decades and getting away with it by applying the illegal Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT). The EU lets them away with it. Anybody thinking of emigrating to Ireland, I'd give it a miss as the taxes are among the highest for everything, in the world.
Many will compare the prices of used hybrids vs nonhybrids, probably less than 8 thousand dollars. The hybrid big battery becomes much more reliable for the newer designs. Note that there is an air filter for the hybrid battery that needs to be maintained for most of them.
The savings don't stop there by saving fuel!. Maintenance wise it's about the same but where you do save are these: no transmission, no starter, brakes last much longer and no alternator to worry about! So in the long run, less things to replace.
So the HYBRID doesn’t have a petrol motor, with all its bits and pieces? No one ever mentions that a hybrid is even more complicated, having BOTH drive systems.
@@mikequinn6206depends on the drivetrain. There's a lot of differences by make and model. In Toyota land at least, their Ecvts are dead reliable and I haven't heard much if any claims of motor or inverter problems. And often the battery packs are small so while replacement can be a few thousand, it doesn't total your car and is still pretty rare. I used to mock them but have become somewhat of a fanboy since owning my '13 Highlander (Kluger) hybrid. At 130k miles I still have over 50% of the factory front brake pads left and I regularly beat the fuel consumption rating in the spring summer and fall. I do A bit worse than rated in the winter, maybe by %10
Not sure if it's just Japanese manufacturers in general going full dumb-ass, or just having a total toddler style meltdown over what's coming out of China, but the price for the "entry level" Civic being $47200 on road in Vic, is an absolute joke. It's like Honda just doesn't want to sell Civics anymore.
Currently, the Civic is the best selling compact car in the USA and Canada, it sells around 200-300 thousand units every year despite its higher price tag compared to its competition.
@@Mububban23 I'm going to buy one in EU in a few days. What other car would you suggest? I've test driven 10+ cars over last 6 months and I chose Civic.
you know why they that high right? you guys ask for to much technology in America plus government make them add a lot stuff in car as well now for example emission. ofcourse is not going be same, they put lot effort into car we cant have simple cars anymore. We just privilege in America we cant make these cars price that cheap anymore
Had a civic with the 1.8 ltr engine and a very good care with excellent economy. The thing missing in this test is overall life cost, what happens when the battery loses capacity reduces which we all know they do, what is life span of the battery and replacement cost and warranty period for the battery,etc
@@natas12rm I don’t know what you mean by that and I don’t want cheap aftermarket batteries in a car parked in my garage. Nevertheless, the cost as shown on the service desk computer was as above. Labour and testing was one of the biggest factors.
@@Cuzzazbuzz they are not cheaply made. They are the inserts. Idk I don’t drive hybrid but I remember watching a Scotty Kilmer video where he said you don’t have to replace the whole hybrid. You can just replace the trays
@@natas12rm sorry I forgot to say that there was only one ‘module’ in the battery that was faulty. I think there are 5 or 6 in total but they only changed one.
I learnt a lesson about trusting Factory Fuel Consumption figures. I did a return loop from Toowoomba to Brisbane and I averaged 6.4 L/100km and the factory figure is 7. 2021 Mitsubishi Outlander.
And at that price too a shocker of a reversing camera in terms of clarity if you have tried it, and also not 360 degree periphery views, say compared to the golf’s rear camera quality. Lack of parking sensors on a car this size (on reversing in under duress you really need it in Aus), also inexcusable at this price..
So tired of seeing people whingeing on here about Honda’s pricing yet the same people aren’t whingeing about VW pricing. As an owner of both I can wholeheartedly say Honda’s product is superior for the same money. Also Honda’s cost of ownership over 5 years is comparable to 2-3 years for other brands. Toyota’s pricing is also practically the same when you factor in on-road costs, if not more (like the new C-HR?)… Time to move on.
The hybrid gas sunroof, leather, 2x electric heated seats, bigger tech screen, and more power and torque. $8k difference isn't just the powertrain. Both are still too expensive. Honda, grow up.
I really don’t know where everyone who is complaining about the price is coming from. Can’t afford a new car, buy second hand. Stupid to pay for a new car and suffer the depreciation. Proven that over the last twenty five years time and time again. Went back to a low mileage eleven year old Honda in good condition and couldn’t be happier. Other car is a Prius,seven years old and only gets better on economy(900 kilometres on a tank and less than 40 litres even on the warning light). Have owned three and none have ever required anything other than regular servicing(every six months). 100% reliable, no issues with head gaskets, batteries, corrosion and only one 12volt battery replaced. The issues the naysayers bring up are total myths. Toyota make the best and Honda are very close behind. Nothing wrong with Mazda either except for fuel economy. Cheers
Right on the money with this video chasing cars!!!! Too many people purchase cars, on purely the car manufacturers claims. And not with their own logical sense.
Always wondered why hybrids sell in the numbers they do. They don't stack up financially unless you're doing 30,000km or more a year, they really don't.
Good work Chasing Cars! Another way to express this test result is that it will take more than 200,000 km to repay the additional up-front cost of the hybrid through fuel savings alone.
@@johnsanford3596 True... but you *have to* pay the extra to get the hybrid, even if you don't want all of the extra trim (e.g. sunroof). It's an own goal from Honda...
🇦🇺🇺🇲 My dilemma a new Camry hybrid cost the same as a top spec gasoline Civic. I can imagine when the Civic hybrid finally goes on sale here it will out price the Toyota Camry altogether.
Great video. Only issue is using the second click to measure how much fuel was used can be inaccurate over shorter distances like 100km. This is because the click does not occur at the height every time. The amount of fuel difference can be up to a litre. So great video, but still taking it with a grain of salt.
Petrol 3-400 for a start stop battery Hybrid, the same 3-400 + 3-4k if we take a Prius as an example (similar 1kwh battery sizes), so yeah it basically never pays for itself if you don't drive for a living - like all EVs
Based on the 8 year hybrid battery warranty required in the U.S.A., add $500 per year to the fuel cost to get a more realistic annual cost for fuel and battery consumables.
Funny how everyone complains about the cost of batteries but never complains about the cost of components that don't need to be replaced as often - hybrids are easier on brakes, no starter motor which is a big failure component in gas vehicles, runs easier on the engine so it's harder to burn the engines out.
@asdf_asdf948 for start it was a question ,not a complaint just in case you didn't notice, it is not only price, it is child Labor involved, disposal, repairs ,emf etc -look into these details-might shock you,
I'd go with the hybrid, but the price of fuel is getting higher and higher. Year 1 after purchase of hybrid it might stay the same, but current, it looks as though fuel along with everything else is going to swell in price/litre.
There's more to it than that. In the case of the RAV4 and the Camry, the hybrids are simply better cars, quieter and faster. In the case of AWD models, they also have a simpler system, a rear electric motor, rather than the transfer case, prop shaft and rear diff. This is easier and cheaper to service.
In 2021, during lockdown, I bought a 2006 Prius with a weak HV battery as a project car for £2000. It took me a week to recondition the 28 NiMH modules. The car has since done 30,000 miles at an average of 60mpg compared to the 35mpg my previous Zafira. It has 100% paid for itself. So does a Hybrid make sense. Depends what hybrid you buy and what you pay for it.
Unlike Mazda (#3 in reliability, after Lexus & Toyota) that moved up from upper mass-market to premium segment without a full corresponding increase in price, Honda did the same move to premium, but with a large increase in price, unjustified by its quality and reliability (decreased vs. 20 years ago). Thus, I forgot about Honda (from which I had 2 decades ago a Civic Sport) and moved on to Mazda based on an objective choice (e.g. I got a Miata ND2 RF G-184 five years ago, zero issues - not even recalls) or to Lexus for a hybrid. However, this video comparison lacks some basic logic: 1) the hybrids have to be chosen for the regenerating braking/coasting driving - for the city and for the hilly/mountainous driving (thus the 50% drive on the highway is not at all realistic); 2) the price of the additional features vs. the ICE variant should be subtracted, to have the actual difference between the hybrid and the regular ICE variant (usually a couple of thousands, not at all almost 8k); 3) the price of changing the battery (probably in less than those 14 years calculated here, approx. 12 years in real life) have to be added to the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership); 4) the best reliability (according to the latest CR reliability survey) belongs to the hybrids segment - and it's normal, they lack the alternator, the starter (thus the stop/start feature doesn't create issues like in an ICE car), belts etc., they stress less the brakes and the engine (working in the Atkinson cycle) etc. (Toyota with the ECVT is by far the leader). Therefore, the conclusion is simple: the hybrid - beside being superior in quietness, punch, reliability (#1 segment according to the latest CR reliability survey) - is the clear winner (even for Honda/Acura, but more clearly for Toyota/Lexus), because the price difference is offset in few years only (despite including the price to change the battery) by the fuel savings. The hybrid is also far superior (even a modern, reliable ICE car is) to BEV (that is the almost the most unreliable segment, except the full-size pickups) because its logic/purpose is quite different from the BEV: its inception was based on saving energy while braking (otherwise the kinetic energy when braking is lost, the dissipating heat through brakes and other adjacent parts damaging them much faster - a logic used also by the BEV for charging while driving)/coasting, not on an all-electric drive (that requires far bigger batteries, that need far more additional hundreds of electrical connection and far more complex software - thus the inherent glitches) that makes the BEV far more polluting, very unreliable, more expensive (even without including the huge cost of replacing their battery, with the polluting raw materials imoral harvesting and extremely low recycling, making them rather disposable electro-appliances), very dangerous, impractical (weight, range, charging, towing etc.), more controllable etc. *** I do recommend better RU-vid sources of information: The Car Care Nut, Savagegeese, Car Help Corner etc. (for tyres, the best RU-vid channel is Tyre Reviews, with Jonathan - if you eliminate some bias helping GoodYear and Michelin). Plus most of the statistics from the Consumer Reports on reliability, ISeeCars, CarEdge, MyMechanic etc.
@@Abdulrahman11799, The Koreans use most of the hybrid approach from Toyota and Honda. Thus, they are not bad, but some of their innovations spoil the overall performance, especially the reliability. But the issue is that the overall reliability and the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of their cars is much below the ones of the top Japanese brands. I had driven for months a Hyundai Accent and then a Santa Fe in the good times of the Koreans - still they were below the Japanese top brands (like Toyota, Mazda, Subaru, Honda, even Suzuki and Mitsubishi). Today I would not touch a Korean car, new or used. And I am walking the talk: I have 3 cars (a Miata ND2 RF G-184 for track-days and nice weather, a Suzuki Jimny 4x4 LCV for small offroad and a Lexus hybrid F Sport for city and mountainous roads), ofc from (different) Japanese brands - I have no loyalty to any of them, I just buy the champions of the segment I need my car to be in, for my specific needs. I used to have a Civic Sport, a Suzuki Swift and European and American cars below what I have today. If you want a hybrid, I would recommend the champion of the segment you are looking in, more than likely one from Toyota/Lexus (or one from Mazda, Subaru, Suzuki - using Toyota tech) or from Honda/Acura, Mitsubishi (for PHEV), but not from the Koreans (they have no champion of any segment).
@@Abdulrahman11799 It doesn't matter my personal opinion, but the statistics. Hyundai/Kia/Genesis group is far below not only Toyota/Lexus, but also below Honda/Acura (hybrid pioneers) etc. in reliability, low TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) etc. Thus, having so many alternatives from the top Japanese producers, why would anyone choose a Korean car? The only situation that would be good for the future owner of a Korean car would be a super-deal like a far below market price (like half price) for an almost new Korean car (probably from a friend or a relative, highly unlikely to happen). I shall never own a Korean car, my Japanese cars are serving me very well (Miata ND2 RF G-184, Lexus hybrid F Sport and a Suzuki Jimny 4x4).
An interesting report, but with all the commentary around how ‘accuracy’ was obtained, what load did each carry and how much slip streaming did the hybrid do compared to the petrol version. These would also have an effect on the fuel consumption. Lloyd
Amazing car, the best non premium hatch in the market currently, yet it was dead on arrival due to stupid pricing Strangely the CR-V is competitively priced... go figure. Drop 10k in each model and you will start selling again Honda...
But what if you hold the cars for 6 or 8 years, and trade the cars in. Will you get a higher trade-in value for the hybrid version to offset its higher purchase price?
Really? 50km in town and 50km on the highway - I realise that the conditions are the same for both but the '2nd click' method isn't that exact - over 4-500knm then any difference would be negligible.
It depends. For exampe in Austria the car insurance is insanely dependent on the CO2 emissions of the car, it is more hundred/thousand EUR difference on a year. That can you also calculate if you live here
The Honda hybrid is also very good on its brakes as well, we have a crv hybrid and at its first service and 6000 miles the front brakes had used 10% and the rear 0% this is because of the high harvest of the electric from the brakes
Great comparison and test. Well done! I always consider how long it takes for me to pay back an ev over a similar ice vehicle equivalent. And the answer is usually the same. But ev buyers will have their ways of justifying the higher price
With current EV and FBT discounts, a $60k EV is the same out of pocket cost as a $40k petrol car, provided you can lease it. Discounts won't last forever of course. But then, EV prices will continue to drop too, and eventually will reach parity with ICE equivalents. And home charging will cost about 1/3 the price of petrol to cover the same distance.
There is very little maintenance with the Toyota hybrid. I don't know about the Honda. The brakes last almost the life of the car and there are no belts.
I like the Civic. I don't even mind them going premium, as it seems to be biting at the heels of the German offerings. My problem is that if you're going to go premium, then you need to do it properly -- they both lack surround view cameras and the turbo Civic even lacks lumbar support. Inexcusable.
And no rear parking sensors for 47k on the petrol model, an absolute must have in Victoria for reverse parking under pressure or parallel parking…you’ve got to be joking.
Now add in the lower used value on sale of the hybrid, the additional cost of replacement tyres on the hybrid, the additional cost of insurance of the hybrid and not to mention the additional fire risks.
Can you enlighten on the fire risks? These hybrids are non plug-ins. There no no known issues with them catching fire any more than a regular ICE catching fire
Those number ate amazing! But.... Still not as good as my 14yo diesel... I am stingy, i will keep it a little bit longer. Congratulations for test! It is so rare to see people who actually know what they are doing!
In Europe the hybrid choice is the minimal requirement in order to get favorable emissions sticker and be able to enter cities and eventually park with some restrictions. PHEV and electric is the next tier to overcome such restrictions. So you must be rich to drive in major towns or cities.
It's not true. Maybe in some cities from Germany or Norway. But, everywere people are driving petrol or lpg based cars. Try to go on Greece or Italy and let me know what you see
Loved the test, and ICE still makes the most sense for a lot of buyers based on these numbers. Honda are just a mess here in NZ, with all dealerships having gone and everything going online. I tried to enquire multiple times about buying a new Civic and didn't get a single response. Ended up buying one of the last non-hybrid Puma's instead.
On a island nation it seems like continuing to invest in ICE cars are a waste of money, especially since most of the driving distances are probably short, it would be better to invest in EV infrastructure instead.
As a civic owner this new one is an absolute rip off. Sure they are reliable but 47k is an absolute rort. I dont understand how anyone could buy one over its competition.
It’s a shame because the Civic is quite a good thing but the hybrid in particular is dangerously close to the cost of premium rivals like the Audi A3 etc
Honda Australia must already be aware of their car prices. They must have given up completely. The very idea of selling Civic at such a crazy price means they gave up from the beginning.
Same as here in NZ, they’re on some good stuff with those prices- $39k for a Jazz RS, $56k for a ZRV ‘sport.’ Even the base models are priced stupid high. I’ve seen more Civic type R’s around than regular Civics.
I live in the UK and bought the hybrid model earlier this year and paid the equivalent of $70,000 Australian, so please don't be complaining about car prices you don't know how lucky you are, the full list price of the hybrid here is now well over $75,000!! (£41,000).
Hmmm. Mums 2018 astra saloon got 3.4l per 100 when i took it sydney melbourne and back... I can get around 5l per from my ceratoGT highway (up or down a touch depending on terrain). Around 6l per mixed daily commute (semi rural to nearly the city and back). Colour me not thaaat impressed with the hybrid honda... especially given the price.
$47k is ridiculous money for a civic. Who do they think is going to buy it at the price? You have to pass up a Mazda 3, VW Golf or Toyota Corolla to name a few.
Comparative fuel economies don't take I to account driver and engineering characteristics! I went from 1.6L '95 5spd man corolla to '97 3.8L v6 automatic (4spd) commodore (australia) and got same mpg average in similar traffic at similar speeds and acceleration over years along the same road.
The fuel consumption should be calculated over the life of the vehicle. I have a hybrid camry and in the first 2 years it has already paid for its price gap.
In my case the 2021 RAV4 hybrid that I bought was $2,000 more than a non hybrid AWD model. I save more than $2000 per year in gas on a 20,000km per year basis. So yea, totally wort it. Not to mention that the resale value of the hybrid is a higher and it's much easier to sell because of the high demand for those models.
@@Mountain-Viking Are these US dollars? I mean, in the US we have miles. Don't get me wrong, you save a lot, I admit. The units didn't make sense to me
The Honda Australia CEO has lost the plot. Overpriced cars, HRV limited to 4 seats, Cancels the Jazz. Its almost like they want to fail. Other markets overseas get the BRV,WRV,HRV turbo so its not like Honda aren't making good cars just Honda Australia having no clue.
Best civics in order = Type R (one of the most beautiful cars currently in production 315HP), SI (amazing value and still styling and fun 200HP), Hybrid (pretty damn good economy and still fun for an automatic 200HP), then the rest follow. Honda is doing great things these days.
Honda in EU and AUS has completely lost the plot on pricing. I haven't seen a single new Honda product out in the EU. They are priced out of the competition for the laughable package. Mainly running on life support with the occasional delusional Honda fanboy that pays out the ass.
Thanks for this. It proves what I've been saying for many years; that buying/owning an EV or Hybrid vehicle as compared to a Petrol or Diesel vehicle, isn't worth/doesn't justify, the additional cost of buying one. The market for EV and Hybrid vehicles here in the UK has crashed, although much of that problem is due to the lack of infrastructure for Recharging EV's; something the Government has been extremely slow in setting up. Additionally, wherever you are in the UK, a very large proportion of people live in blocks of flats or high-rise building, with limited on-street parking, so charging facilities are extremely limited. Ipso Facto, buying an EV/Hybrid vehicle, isn't an option for most people; especially those who have to commute for work, or who cover hundreds of miles per day, such as my local Taxi Divers. Russ. Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK.
The Honda Civic Hybrid is charged by its combustion engine only, or by braking. You cannot plug it in. It has no problem with range. What the hybrid provides is instant torque from the electric motor.
This mindset "x$ saving over y time to match the purchasing price difference" seems skewed to me - I'm going to sell of the vehicle in few years, and the HEV version will fetch a better price, so I don't need to offset the full price diff. But yeah, Honda sucks now with the pricing. I actually bought 2 months ago KIA Sportage here in EU - the difference between HEV (with AT) and the non-hybrid (DCT) version was about 2.300 Eur and I did buy it for the smoother power delivery more than I really need it on the occasional city visit. Having a traditional AT over a DCT was also a win for me. Living with Kia Niro HEV for 3 years thought me why they make more sense than the ICE only cars, at least in my case - when mostly accumulating highway kms, it wouldn't make any sense.
The owner of a 2021 rav4 prime lost all of its gas saving when he had to replace a cooling part for 6k$ cad last week. Not talking about the cost of the high voltage cable that corrode and need to be replaced.
@@iulian2548 well, I agree but I'll have to try it out with Mazda's powertrain programming. For me, it's all about fun behind the wheel so I'm really curious to pin this and the Mazda3 head-to-head. That said, the Civic has independant rear suspension. I'm hoping Mazda brings that back. Also, my 2014 Mazda3 isn't holding up great to Canadian salty winters. I hope Honda does better at this, or that both manufacturers improve drastically.
John Cadogan did the maths on a mitsubishi pajero sport phev and said you would have to drive on ev mode only, for 7 years, just to break even on the price difference. If hybrid cars are not good value, then how can a pure EV even enter the conversation?
Let’s not forget the auto industry always makes you pay a premium for more power within a model range regardless of how they do it capacity/cyclinders/turbo More power more moola !!! I use to look at hybrids as just what’s the efficiency kicker but it’s now how much ahem “performance” grunt is the added kicker I know you said it’s a efficiency test but CC how much easier/effortless was the hybrid drive on hwy / overtaking / up the big hills f3 ?
There a definite advantage in terms of performance with the hybrid. The 1.5T is perfectly fine around town but it gets a bit breathless at higher speeds, with an electric motor at low speeds and a 2.0L petrol suppling direct drive at higher speeds the hybrid absolutely has a greater breadth of ability in terms of performance.
also got to look at difference between Honda vs Toyota... how are the hybrids impacted above 70mph where Honda will engage clutch and turn off electric but is locked into a single ratio...where Toyota will still be able to increase overdrive ratio at higher speeds?!
As for fuel economy, would you rather pay $100 or more for a tank full or $56 to$78 per tank? Acar is an ongoing cost so stop thinking about how long it takes to recoup the cost difference. It is immaterial. You can either afford to own a car or not. Truthfully it is rare to have public transport conveniently nearby especially in regional areas. Think about it.
Most car odometers are deliberately inaccurate to give better fuel consumption results. I think they can be up to 10% out. I had two Subarus that were both 7 to 8 % out using GPS readings. ( My 2015 Mercedes ML is spot on. 100% accurate. ) So, using the cars odometers can be used for comparison, but not for real world accuracy. Also, you are not taking into account the extra capital cost of the $8000. If you have to borrow that, at say the Australian average of 12%, that is an extra $1000 a year. IF you have the cash and instead bought $8000 in a blue chip company that gave a capital return of 5% a year and a dividend return of 10% a year with franking, then that is $800 in you pocket every year, PLUS you would have shares worth ~$11,000 after 8 years, the average car ownership length in Australia. So it makes no financial sense at all to spend an extra $8000 on basically the same car just to save $400 a year in fuel costs ( $4 saved per 100kl over 20,000 kl per year. )
One day usage isnt worth it. How much will each cost to maintain each of them over their lifespan , the value each will retain over a long time. Also hybrids in general enjoy extra perks of low road tax, and exempt from certain urban driving fees in some part of the world.
Here in Canada this new petrol Civic starts at 22K CAD (24K AUD). And it’s considered an entry level compact sedan, I don’t understand why you guys are paying this much for this.
The only thing I’d like to see you address is the ACTUAL cost to the typical owner. If you pay cash, the actual cost is what you paid minus what you sold it for after 3 years (typical) If you finance, it’s the cost of the down payment plus the monthly payments for 3 years plus/minus what you get for it after 3 years.
