Civic: How regular can you get? This is a car for banging Freshman behind the Dirt Mall. Here's what I don't get: Why does a car with independent rear suspension (good) still let a car under-steer so bad (bad).
+tohnari Hey, it's an EX, that's a powerful model. haha. Nah, but forreal doe sit have the vtec in it and is it a manual? My girlfriend has an 05 Civic EX hybrid manual and while it doesn't have the vtec, it does have the 1.5 with the assist hybrid motor and it's not a slouch. haha.
"understeers like a concert marimba." Although I have never driven this car, since I was a percussionist I now know EXACTLY what this car steers like. Thanks Mr. Regular
This is super funny to me because I have this car and the first thing I did was slammed it. I never even experienced the original suspension but mine works great lol
Yooper Dad: "Dat's a good car, Ja 'dats a four-cylinder right? Ja, like that Civic; that's good on gas. Gramma in background: "Oh, be careful." I live in Wisconsin and have a 98 Civic sedan. This could not be more spot on. Thanks for reviewing the Civic!
I had this exact grey Civic, except manual, at one point. It was benign, milquetoast, and completely forgettable when it was gone. Mom still talks about it.
Kinda every civic besides the type R and I guess some SIs are boring in my opinion... S2000 and the new type r are the only hondas id really like to drive
Just an FYI, understeer vs. oversteer on a FWD car has nothing to do with the car being independent rear suspension or not. It's actually primarily based on the relationship between front and rear roll stiffness, which is determined by the springs/sway bars. -High front roll stiffness will cause a car to understeer. -Relatively equal front and rear roll stiffness will make a car more neutral. -High rear roll stiffness will make the car oversteer. Most regular FWD cars are set up with high front roll stiffness to the factory to make the car "safely" understeer. This is why fitting a stiffer rear sway bar is such a common mod for people with FWD cars. It evens out the front and rear roll stiffness, making the car more neutral. Fit a stiff enough rear sway bar to this Civic and it will swing its tail around like a dachshund that's had its back legs replaced with wheels.
Not too sure about FWD cars but on my RWD car I can tune the under and oversteer with just the alignment specs. Specifically on my car more front camber and castor = more front grip = more oversteer. It took some trial and error but it's fairly even now.
Ryan Hudson Yep, obviously there a lot of factors that affect handling balance, and alignment specs (particularly static and dynamic camber) certainly make a difference. When you start getting into cars with RWD, AWD, torque vectoring, ect. then you obviously add in a whole new laundry list of factors as well. For the regular FWD car though, front-rear roll stiffness is usually the biggie for determining handling balance.
I want a sports car as my first car That sounds expensive, no you want a honda civic I want a muscle car as my first car No, you want a honda civic I want a 4 speed bicycle Happy birthday, I got you a honda civic
Ric Ultima "hey check out this Honda Civic I just bought dad!" "Oh, cool. Thats a nice, safe, slow car. Oh, what are those red badges that say Type R though ?" "Oh, they're just some sporty looking things the previous owner put on you know"
Currently reading the Wikipedia article for the 7th gen Civic and it's strangely similar to the script of this video minus all the jokes. I see you Mr. Regular, I see you.
We have achieved peak regular car. My mother recently gave up driving and gave me her.. 2002 Honda Civic LX Automatic. It's even silver. And holy cow does it under-steer - and this is coming from an Audi owner. I've been noodling back and forth to work in it worry free - well, worry free since the airbags were replaced.
My technically "first" car was a 2001 Civic LX Automatic. Gold. it was a hand me down from my parents. Half way through owning the car I found out it was a Canadian model, something about being able to dim the dashboard lights that you couldn't do in the US models. Then soon afterwards the transmission craped out and the gears were slipping under hard acceleration... and yeah the understeer is very bad, and the body roll too! None the less, it was a great car.
Dana W I just bought a 2001 civic lx today and the only light on the dash is the SRS light. I was kind of worried about it and thought maybe the airbags are out of service but your comment just gave me a sigh of relief .. I’m sure it’s probably just the sensor in the belt
I've got one of these. THE UNDERSTEER. IT'S TRUE. Like, understeer at 25 mph through a slight bend. I was shocked. I thought the indie rear suspension would make if corner like a champ... That aside, it's a great car! This is a very accurate review. Props to Mr. Regular and the Roman.
I can confirm the 2004 LX with a 5 speed is a understeering dog. It was a great little car, that did everything that I could have asked of it. Even that one time I thought off roading was a good idea. Had over 150k miles and still ran like a boss.
It has understeer because the rear sway bar is absent on the LX trim level. The EX trims from this generation handle like you were expecting this LX to handle. Countering the cornering force (i.e. "roll" or "sway") with the rear axle lets the inner, front wheel put more force to the ground giving the front end more grip. This is why rear sway bars on FWD cars are so critical as well as stiff chassis (to transmit the action of the rear axle to the front). This also explains why torsion beam rear suspension on FWD cars allows for rotation (See: Focus and Fiesta) - the anti-sway action is built into the suspension geometry. However, torsion beam does sacrifice some fine-tune control which is why IRS w/ sway bar is still desirable - kinda like McPherson Strut vs Double Wishbone).
This was my 1st car, a beige one. We went everywhere together and I got my license with it. Funny you talk about its under-steering, my mom would always complain that I took turns too fast cause she felt the car rolling and that I had to slow down 😂 Just sold it a few days ago with 141k miles of memories (so cheesy). Great car, man do I miss it!
As a shameless Honda fan-boy, this car represents when I stopped giving a shit about Honda. I've owned two 2000's and a 99 - and I love them. This thing is a pale reflection of its forefathers, and it all went downhill from here. Bigger, fatter, less grounded in realty every single year after 2000.
The turn of the century brought new safety and emissions standards so most lovable lightweight cars from the 90s turned to shit after 2000. Look at the Eclipse for example. Not that I hate the third and fourth gen Eclipses (I owned one) but the car took a completely different direction and they ended up basing it off the Galant. Sure it had about the same amount of power, but lack luster engines, sloppy suspension designed for comfort, and a sedan Chassis isn't exactly the recipe for the perfect sports car.
Huss Ali Completely disagreed. Ill take an em1 over the new junk anyday. I went to turnersville honda with intentions of driving and purchasing a 2007 si, and I was just just disappointed. and my 2000 civic was a dx model, but swapped to a b20b with a b16 trans and it would wreck the k in the 07 si.
David Hoffnung That's what she said! OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *everybody declines my high five*
I own a 2001 Honda Civic LX. Tan on tan. Automatic. It was basically given to me, and as much as I appreciate it, when I drive it I get this overwhelming feeling that I've given up on life. There is no joy, only existence. If there is even a hint of joy before I get in to drive it, it gets eradicated when I sit uncomfortably in the tan cloth seats. It's THE most bland Civic ever produced, inside and out. It makes a Toyota Camry look sporty.
I have an EX coupe in red with manual: the manual transmission is the only thing that lets me feel any sense of satisfaction in the choice of Honda (I downgraded from a 5th gen Accord EX Coupe manual because of a collision that was out of my control, I fuckin' loved that car).
Hey Mr. Regular, I just wanted to say that I was on frontline as a freshman and Drumline the three years thereafter, two of which I was captain. And I greatly appreciate all of the percussion oriented band jokes and mentions you've made over the years. I have to say it's really awsome for there to be another band nerd car guy out there. Especially a famous one. Anyway, have a great day.
Alto Sax player here! I miss marching band so much, but sadly I can't really manage a commitment like that in college. Now that I think about it, I need to start practicing again :P
This car makes me love my '94 Peugeot 205 1.1i even more: it usually under-steers when the road is wet, but on a certain rainy day, when going 70 km/h it decided to go from under-steer to over-steer. My years of playing racing games (and practicing in real-life snow) finally payed off: counter-steering and holding the throttle made me catch the slide.
I currently own this car and I abuse the hell out of it. It's steering and handling is great as long as you're not mashing down the throttle in a corner. It will effortlessly take turns as long as you're going "the safe speed". The suspension feels great, not much roll, but still very comfortable. I love this car, its the king of practicality.
It is a bitch. People in my country because it is a Camry it is Toyota and guess what when they get old they cost even more in maintenance specially the suspension. I know 2 cancelled the car because it suspension cost. Fuck Toyota.
This is hilarious. I own that same car, trimline, year, and color. And yes it's bigger on the inside (moved across the country twice with it). Traded up to a WRX
Awesome Video. My 2 cents on the 7th Gen Civic is that this was the best damn little car that I have driven for a person that did not know how to drive a car. Unlike my little Subie DL that I had in high school and college, this car was not fast off the line, nor would it break loose the front tires and push its way around the upside of a mountain road at 55 MPH (tires were clocking close to 75 mph), but it was predictable. It had slightly better than acceptable acceleration at highway speeds if you learned how to take advantage of the missing gate between D3 and D4 on the shifter (You didn't mention the missing gate between D3 and D4.) This had to be the best car for a person who does not know how to drive a car. And better than that, this is the best car for a person who does not aspire to be a better driver on the highway. It is an amazing piece of engineering and is really the ultimate "appliance" car.
That FInal Fantasy 8 outro!!!! I think one of my favorite things is simply trying to guess which video game (usually JPRG) OST you guys are going to use!
The ending song is from FFVIII!!! Great game!!! (But most people didn't like it).. Ok MR regular, when are you going to review the G37S coupe, my very own car.. Damit I been asking this for a year now... Hope you have the time..(and car) because I love your job.
I thought I recognised it! Quickly went to the comments for confirmation! Ahh thats so cool! Wicked cover Roman! :D (great review as always Mr. Regular.)
Every time I hear people inexplicably call FF8 a great game, I die a little inside. War... suffering... AIDS... people that call FF8 a great game... why must there be so much evil in the world? I don't understand.
Well... It's a bad game??? It's a piece of shit game??? It's sooo bad this game that make you to write this crap we all have to read?? I can tell that your judgment is inexplicably stupid.
Yes, you all have to read it. I had to play that game. I played FF7 back at launch on PSX, like everyone else it knocked me on my ass. Rushed out and bought FF8 at launch, rammed it into my psx GET IN THERE YOU FUCK and turned it on and... ohh... ohh... nohh... *drops controller from nerveless fingers* ohhhhhh.... and now, years later, you all have to read this crap. I think that's only fair! Don't you think that's fair? I think it's fair.
As always a fun and interesting review. Curious about the civic I owed a 2002 civic ex it was great ride but one thing u forgot to mention was the troubled automatic transmission had some serious problems
Question, I know you can change wiper stocks on toyotas back then but can you put a honda accord wiper stock on a 99 civic? My granny keeps complaining about her civic not having intermittent wipers.
I'd go with a previous gen EK9, or an EG6 because of the double wishbone front suspension, which from what I've heard supposedly is that civic (EK9,EG6 and other 5th & 6th gen models) has one of the best suspension systems found on any passenger car.
YEP! So glad someone else mentioned this! Once this gen came out, a lot of Honda guys I knew abandoned ship on the brand! Between this thing and the RSX there was a lot of frustration with Honda!
***** Well, I don't think they're any more likely to rotate with the factory setup, lots of people just feel that the double wishbone style of suspension is a lot better platform to mod on. TeamIntegra.net has some GREAT suspension articles if you're interested. They're pretty much civic relevant too. They explain the differences of both and advantages and disadvantages of both.
***** ugly, they rust out hardcore like every dodge, and power really doesnt mean anything because for cheap you can double the power. look at SRT4's people blow them up all the time haha. civics also out handle neons wierdly enough.
Robby94LS I've owned two EG6s (an SiR II and an SiR), have driven two DC2 Integra Type R's, and an EK9. I now own a DC5 Integra Type R, and I will say without a doubt that the DC5 Type R is the best Honda I've ever driven.
kasm279 I completely agree... I wanna see some love for the mighty YAMAHAMMER!!! The Gen 3 V8 is a rolling joke he could do a half hour video about the flaws in that car (I had 2, by the way) For some reason still loved them!
The accuracy of this review is uncanny. I had a white 99' LX. Super clean, tinted windows, lowered on coilovers. The coilovers killed a lot of the understeer and with the sporty tires I had it was hard to lose control. But stock, it would just push... Whatever, I have a Miata now! Track day, bro!
Much like my '98 Corolla, the Civic was designed to be a reliable people mover for non-enthusiasts. It's bland and boring, and that's by design---bland and boring appeals to alot of people. I only bought my Corolla because I had x amount of $$$$, and I needed something reliable right away (wanted a Celica). You made a good point in that vid, and the point is that reliability sells cars. The 18 year old kid's first car was an old Honda, and it was as reliable as a bank vault....a few years later, he's got a good job and more disposable income, and he remembers how reliable that Honda was---he buys a new one. I know a guy in his early 50's that has driven only Toyotas for the last 25 years....brand loyalty.
"Why should it understeer in the first place?" he says, while we all still have the image of a shopping cart full of window weights bumping into things in our minds.
If you drive like grandma drive a corolla You drive like a coked up teen who shotguned 5 beers and wants to go fast Buy a civic 2 bery different "reliability" standpoints
I have a 99 LX, and I went through one. My mom had the car for years before me and it went out around 150k I believe. Other than that, it's just been simple things, and I abused the car when I first got it. I didn't even change the oil back then lol, I do now, but I was an idiot when I first got it lol
My mom bought an ex (inline 4) and that thing is a slug. 150hp/138ft-lbs in a sedan? Seriously? It does handle, thought, if you know what you're doing. Beware: the back door links might fall off and you'll never open them.
best car in the world honestly. It just, is a car, a good car. Nothing modern will compete with the simple a to b reliability of this car. At least not from a reputable brand, there may be versas or some shit for kids 20 years down the road but those have a eastern european style crash saftey, essentially a strong enough to protect you from running over a gypsie and that is it. Long live the civic.
Stuff in more safety than that and we're simply betraying Darwin and helping idiots to breed and making our cars inexorably slower and less efficient. EE safety best safety.
This was the first generation to adopt macpherson strut suspension in the front, instead of double wishbone all around so perhaps that is a contributing factor in its understeer.
Imho, a fwd car that oversteers(like you said the Fiesta does) is a bad thing for regular people. Catching oversteer on a fwd car is HARD for regular non-car-people. Now, please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't fwd cars usually violently swing back the other way because people overcorrect it(due to weight transfering from one side to the other), and then slam into the wall with even more force on the other side of the road. Whereas just letting it spin out without correcting usually results in the car staying on the road. When I had a fwd hatchback, I once nearly spun out in the snow, but corrected it. It then swung the other way much more suddenly than it did innitially. The only reason I managed to not crash, is because I decided to hold the accelerator down, so it pulled the front end out of that second slide.. But most people wouldn't do that, and then try to correct it again. I believe the Civic is meant to understeer because fwd understeer is much easier to catch according to manufacturers. You just let off the gas to get more weight on the front wheels, straighten the wheel *a bit* and then start steering again... At least that's what I've learned in an anti-skid program. Personally I drive an old Bmw E36, and even that car is alligned to understeer rather than oversteer. I spun that car in the rain once and just let it spin, because I knew my driving skills weren't good enough to catch it and I'd just end up in the ditch on the other side. By letting it go it stayed on the road and I had no damage, other than my ego..
Mythbuster Yeah, I agree, regular people WILL just hit the brakes! I've seen it in other cars and I've been in the car when people have done it. Most non drivers reaction to ANYTHING abnormal is to just hit the breaks! I'm always drilling into my wife that sometimes the gas pedal will get you OUT of bad situations! It's got me out PLENTY of times!
Haha, I have an E36 and I nearly understeered into a bridge offramp divider in the snow, I know for a fact it doesn't like to oversteer until you decide to hoon :D
I've been driving a 01 Civic EX for 14 years that I bought new. It's modified with high performance summer tires, Koni adjustable shocks, high lb. Springs, sway bars, polyurethane suspension bushings, chassis reinforcement among other engine and interior exterior mods. And I can assure you that the car can be a lot of fun and has such a high limit that I have yet to have the balls to find it on the street. It corners unbelievably fast and has made several friends into Honda believers. When I bought it I said I would drive it into the ground or until I could race it abd here we are and I'm running my first track day with it in several months.
I've gone from a 1989 Accord to a 7th gen Civic for grad school and I've come to love it. One of these days I would love to be an enthusiast but I just need something to get me through the next couple years.
Both my parents had one of these when I was growing up, an 03 and an 04. It understeers forever until it suddenly doesn't and then you're completely out of control. No lead up, just understeering...understeering...BAM! SIDEWAYS. Very hard to regain control. Nearly crashed it at Laguna Seca of all places after many laps of constant slidy understeer. Difficult clutch too. But also the most unobtrusive car I've ever driven. Always found myself asking to borrow it when I was tired and didn't want to deal with another car. You could drive it comfortably for days.
That was the first car I ever rode in. A 2000 or 2001 Honda Civic. That was the car that brought me home just after my birth. It had a manual transmission, manual windows and was in a dark green colour.W We had this car until 2008, when we bought a new Mitsubishi Outlander.
Mine has replaced tires too and it corners really well, although I've only had limited experience with other cars since like RCR said, its my first car
Yeah, just looking at the tires that are on their, they're the kind that are advertised as being eco tires. Even on a proper set of all seasons, it'll corner in the dry pretty well in my opinion. The same issue with those low friction tires can be experienced when driving in the rain and trying to corner the same way.
Drive a 6th gen Civic, or even better, a 5th gen, they handle so much better because they have Double-Wishbone suspension as opposed to to 7th gen+ with their Macpherson Struts
This was actually my first car, i had the manual 2 door EX coupe though. I feel like since it was such a safe car my teenage brain told me to push it ever harder. I never wrecked it, crazy chicks dumped water in the gas tank, keyed it, and kicked in the rear quarter panel trying to kill a spider but it kept going. e-brake slides, burnouts and weekends of racing in on backroads against friends outbacks and ford escapes. I loved the little car(still do). I think it made me appreciate cars more, yea it made me want to get something RWD to have what i though would be more "fun" The civic never let me down and no matter how hard i tried to get it to get dangerous in the turns it just wouldn't. Not that you couldn't really go at the turns, it would take them but never felt like it was going to bite back.
