Religion in Medieval Scandinavia and its Portrayal in CK3 

a video on the remnants of the scythian, sogdian and sarmatian cultures in game would be interesting

Slavic paganism is seen by many as basically the continental European version of Norse paganism (with sometimes good reason), so could you make a video about that subject too?

I think some of the norse holy sites are more like cultural centers for the norse people (with exception of kiev i guess?) Paradox problably did this cuz since not all religions have the concept and/or practice of pilgrimage they decided to replace "holy sites" with "cultural sites". Even more so since they have so many religions and all of them need at least 3 holy sites

Lejre, and also Zeeland, supposedly a Norse cult centre, were actually holy sites on release but that was changed to York and Kiev, probably for balance.

The Ásatrú, or more appropriately, Germanic Pagan, Holy Sites in CK3 weren't chosen solely to make interesting gameplay decisions. Paderborn, for example, was almost certainly chosen due to its location not far from the hypothesized location of the Irminsul, a site considered sacred to the Saxon Pagans, who practiced a similar form of paganism to the Vikings. Ranaheim in Norway similarly has historical significance, as it was mentioned in the sagas and was also home to one of the largest heathen hofs in Norway, which was just recently uncovered back in 2010. Jorvik and Kiev, on the other hand, have a more tenuous religious connection, but were likely chosen due to both being important sites of Viking conquest.

I never clicked on a video that fast

I always thought that swapping the ck2 Norse holy site in Denmark for the ck3 one in Kiev was an intentional nerf of the Norse faith by PDX that they gave a flimsy justification for. Edit: yeah and the swap from Zeeland to Jorvik was weird, but is probably for gameplay reasons to enable Danelaw Asatru shenanigans.

i think i remember that, when the game first came out, Lejre was actually a holy site, but was changed because of gameplay reasons like you said

While the thumbnail already implied it I'm kinda disappointed that ukonusko isn't covered. It had an intresting relationship with the germanic scandinavians (weren't sami seers still hired by rulers after christianization or am i misremembering that?)

Putting a holy site in Kyiv is still a mystery to me. And the reasoning that it would be too easy to reform kinda falls flat, when you look at the suomenesko faith, that has 3 sites in close proximity. As a dane im still fuming we didn't get a holy site at Lejre lol.

I curious about Slavic christianization. It would nice for a video on how all the Slavs christianized. The forms of Christianity in Slavic kingdoms also vary, it would interesting to learn why some adopted orthodoxy, and some catholic. Then you even have other strange Christian denominations like the bogomils in Bulgaria.

I am from the region near Paderborn and we have the "Externsteine" Here, a stone formation, which also has some myths around it and it is being used even today to show and inform about german pagan Tradition. Maybe that also helps the Case for Paderborn being a holy site.

The ck2 holy sites you mentioned were actually used in ck3 before Norse lords came out when þey were replaced with York and kyve

For modders of CK3, Lejre is coded, but unused.

I reformed Asatru with the tenet "Christian Syncretism". It does provide a unique taste of both diplomacy and warfare, through which you can conquer weaker rulers while maintaining friendly relations with stronger ones. Conversion of the christian lands dramatically slows down, though...

I think the fallen eagle mod does a much better job in terms of German Pagan religions

9:15 Well yeah it's not the word "Forn sed" that was used in medieval times but I wouldn't call Asatro a new word when SAOB(Swedish dictionary) already mentioned it by 1820.

I love these videos man, they cover some areas of history I majorly gloss over usually

As a Swede I will say your pronunciations are perfect! The only (and I mean only) criticism I can give is that the way the Swedish names are pronounced it feels very forced and insecure. Believe more in yourself

Amazing video as always

I haven't even seen the video yet but i know i love the concept so much i already subscribed

Lovede the video, keep up the great work!! :D

Shoutout to Ångermanland, one of my favourite places in Sweden. Also great pronounciation honestly! Modern swedish is hard and old swedish is even harder lol

Would love to have a video on Perisa now that its updated ❤

Thank you for these videos they are really interesting

"Complete bollocks but yeah it's pretty cool." That was pretty much my take on the whole Asatru thing in general 😂🤣

Very good video. I liked it.

Can you make a video about Rurik and how well Paradox portrayed the Rus?

love to hear you pronounce the names of sweden and the rest of scandinavia

Very good video, just one detail, "casus belli" isnt a christian value, as the term and political belief in a "just cause" pre-dates christianity and is found instead within old religious legalism

Great video! I hope you keep these coming, I'd love to see you cover more of the Cultures and faiths! One thing to note on the Patreon gods, while I don't think it'd be a more important aspect than, say, ancestor worship (which Asatru had on launch) it's casually mentioned throughout Norse Sagas, like Egil Skallagrimmson mentioning in his Sonnatorrek that he pledged himself to Odin, indicating that (at least some) people pledged themselves to individual gods. I think I remember reading a mention of this in Saga of the Jomsvikings as well. That said, Egil was a poet, adventurer and warrior, so it kinda falls into his lap that Odin would be his focus, I'm not sure that's special devotion or simply the shoe fits. The special focus could be (as you noted) regionally as well, rather than individual such as with Egil, like in Uppsala with Thor having the place of honor over Odin.

Great vid

The ahistorical holy sites really is to nerf the AI, and annoying players as a side effect. Asatru is, probably for obvious reasons, the most played pagan faith by the players, so maybe PDX thought it would make things more interesting to scatter three of the five holy sites very far away. Doing so virtually guarantees the AI never reforms it into an organized faith because it's difficult for the AI to create and keep a realm encompassing three holy sites, so they are much more likely to convert to Catholicism like they did in history.

Its weird to hear things like the idea of pilgrimages not being a thing at all to the Norse people given their penchant for traveling and going "a viking" even though none of that has anything to do with each other. It does make sense though.

The Baltic would be an interesting place to look at, with Vidilism being the easiest Faith to reform (4 counties as a chieftain, or 6 counties continuous), not to mention the old Baltic Prussian, Pomeranian (and by extension Polabian), and Lithuanian & Latvian (latargelian, forgot how to type it) cultures, and Estonian having Varangian adventures for some reason.

Awesome I suggested a video about the 1066 asatru Vikings a while back nice to see you make a video on it. I’m wonder will you be covering the new Persia dlc and it’s historical characters anytime soon?

Concerning the holy sites, I remember when the game first released, there was an Asatru holy site in the Netherlands, I'm pretty sure it was referring to the site of the sacred tree that the Frisian pagans worshipped at until Charlemane cut it down and forcibly converted them to Christianity. So while certainly a holy site for a religion that was related to Asatru, even if the Norse pagans didn't worship there.

You need to make a video on Persia since they just updated it.

The only problem i have with the norse is that they NEVER convert in 867 start date and you always have to deal with 10k Swedish (and estonian for some reason) death stack always coming to raid your shit

Why are you saying Könugarör? The name in game and I believe in Scandinavian languages is Könugardr (sorry I can't find this type of d that used in game). Nice video btw

it is refreshing to see someone put effort in proper pronunciation for the non-english words

Now THIS is freaking epic. 😎

great video can you do one on slovensko paganism

I think the pagan groups being divided into smaller groups isn't entirely helpful, many of them where very similar but practiced in degrees differently but the reformation is an attempt to consolidate the religion into a solid baseline. Also without having many actual holy sights in the religion, a holy sight in the region of another group could also be shown as a show of force to achieve to make a statement, "Our Religion is great and mighty look how far our gods have gotten us, now take this consolidated book of our whole beliefs and follow me!." So it can be treated as showing off how serious you are in your pursuit of reformation and show your validity.

you should make an episode based on the latest dlc

if my memorie serves me right the holy site in Lejr was a thing in ck3 before the viking dlc

I hope you can cover the Baltics at some point.

I'm really confused, I remember playing ck3 and having the Holy sites be in different locations, more like the ck2 map. Did they change the locations since launch?

coud you make a video about the Christian's kingdoms Nubia and Ethiopia and the Christians of Egypt

21:10 "## Zeeland # (Retired) Focal point for an old major Germanic cult. Probably." Probably because it was too close to the other ones?

Can you do persia in 867?

my current game has all of denmark and its territories converted to Judaism (Rabbinism to be more specific)

Before the “Northern Lords” DLC, Zealand was actually a holy site of Ásatrú, after Northern Lords, they moved it to Paderborn. Still don’t get Kyiv though

I love playing Nordic rulers it’s my favorite start

I hope the mention of Thor Olsens gate in Oslo was a joke, because it has nothing at all to do with the old gods and everything to do with a 19th century merchant by the name of Thor Olsen.

19:32 You know who else is a descendant of Norse rulers? King Charles III. And also *you*, probably, dear reader.

Yes

About the Holly Sites, the only 2 that are defendable are Sigtuna and the one in Germany, the Germanic religion was a Precurser to the North Religion however that german holly site would not hold any weight for the Norse.

the other thing about the sagas and edda is they were written by Christians, so anything written in them you have to take with some salt.

The video itself was epic, but the part at 20:27 was pure cringe :D

I feel the "pagan" region pilgrimage mechanics need a rework. Right as of now they simply mirror the mechanics of the Christian one. Meanwhile the Muslim one is destinct to their beliefs. Realistically the Norse only ever went on pilgrimage to the Temple of the three patrons in Uppsala, but there is no evidence to even support that. All the other "holy sites" are simply assumed locations of importance, with one 'the world tree' being the only other location of some significance historically but even by the time of the viking era too had fallen into legend as it was only important to the Saxons and only they knew where it was. A lot of what we see done in CK3 completely ignores historical accuracy and instead suplants it with modern tokenistic revisionism and low fantasy for the singular purpose of being politically correct and non offensive to anyone who might get upset. This has also creeped into EU4 of late too as of the past 4 years. None of the Crusader Kings games have been historically accurate. If they were, they'd upset a lot of people, because the modern world is built on the lies of those in the early middle ages intentionally covering up and rewriting history to justify their devine right to rule. (This is why we will never get an official 8th century start date in CK3 like we did in CK2 due to the events of that time period these days are shouded in a lot of modern controversy)

Your pronunciation of what seems like an attempt of pronouncing goði sorry to say is not correct, the ð is pronounced with a th- sound, pronounced the th for example like God or character Thor.

Come on, we all Know Erik was a black woman, not a norse man.

Very good video, though I must leave many of my personal opinions & observations for this one "Christianisation of Scandinavia happened from top to bottom" This is only somewhat true. The process happened just like everywhere else. First it's popular with the slave population, and then it jumps up to the powerful positions themselves. "These elites did not need to be Christian as feared and respected Vikings" But not elites were not bands of outcasted raiders. A Norse elite did not raid any more then their ancestral ancient Germanic elite. In fact, when the Anglo-Saxons first arrived in Britain, which could be said to be the first Vikings speaking a similar language and the same religion; the constant raids and eventual settlement was even more extreme then the Norse Vikings. The Romans had to actually build a network of fortresses called the "Saxon Shore" because of it. It's worth pointing out that during the time the saga's were wrote, people were still very familiar with their ancestral pagan beliefs and oral traditions. The depiction of Germanic pagan beliefs by Snorri Sturluson actually aligns & compares with the beliefs found in many other Indo-European mythologies where many just always presume a Christian influence (like pagan heaven having golden gates, not actually just a Christian concept). Though it must be said that Christians indeed Christianised their local legends, however this was much more the case in Britain & Ireland then Scandinavia. All ancient pagans had patron gods, but you are right to point out that they didn't dedicate themselves entirely to a single god like the pagan gods in the middle east. There's stories of men who dedicated themselves to a god and established temples for them in the saga's. It is certainly strange that they chose specifically the Asatru to have patron gods over other religions. "The idea of a pilgrimage was not a thing for the Norse" All ancient religions in Europe likely had this concept, or an equivalent. If you look into the portrayal of Odin as a brimmed hatted, wandering traveler similar to Hermes/Mercury, you find the archetype of the "Pilgrim", a traveler on a quest to obtain knowledge. Paradox should've never made 2 awkwardly placed holy sites for Asatru. Even justifying it as "this is where Vikings conquered" doesn't make sense as the game isn't going to play out exactly where they historically settled. They should move the Kiev holy site to somewhere the Germanic religion was historically practiced. The Jorvik holy site is a good choice as Asatru are already settled there (same is true for Kiev but they usually immediately adopt Slovianskan, which wouldn't have been an issue for the rest of the Asatru's), attempting to found the Danelaw. Also, the English 200 years prior to the 800's practiced much of the same rituals and shared the same beliefs as the Norse. Paderborn absolutely is a good location for a holy site. The conquest of Saxony by Charlemagne was not at all "insignificant" to the neighbouring Norse who had to build the Danvirk (a giant wall) to keep the Franks out of Denmark in the early Viking age. The Danes also assisted the Saxons in their struggle, and the Saxons continued to rise up against their Frankish overlords even into the early 800's whilst many took refuge in Denmark. There's even a quote from an old Charlemagne crying about the incoming wrath coming from the north as a consequence of his actions. Although many historians will never accept it because they presume everyone was self centered primates during this time, Frankish aggression was extremely likely to have been a significant factor in kickstarting the Viking age. Although ofc most Vikings (particularly later on) indeed raided for selfish reasons, the first targets to be struck by Vikings was Lindisfarne (important place of conversion for the English and they sent out many missionaries to the Saxons and Norse), then Iona which is similar to Lindisfarne. I've also heard of evidence of Christian communities in Scandinavia at this point suddenly being ousted and their churches destroyed in Scandinavia. Many Dane invasions were initially concentrated around Frisia and Saxony. The Danes indeed attempted to take Saxony for themselves but settled for Frisia who were Germanic pagans that had also been crushed under Frankish aggression. The Danes then targeted England afterwards with the Great Heathen Army, which was likely comprised of adventurers across Scandinavia who must've felt united by some common cause. Perhaps it's all just a coincidence, but I don't think it's likely that the Danes did not see their own future in what happened to the Saxons and sure enough, the Holy Roman Empire indeed invaded Denmark but failed. However they invaded again and was halted by Haraldr Bluetooth's conversion to Christianity. So I'd say Paderborn, which was a site symbolising the World Tree to Germanic pagans, is a very good place to put a Asatru holy site. In ck2, they also picked Zeeland in Frisia, which was an important site for the worship of the 3 Matronae (the Norns) for both Germanic, Celtic and even Roman pagans (such things often merged and were only differentiated by linguistics for pagans).

Please!, could you stop using the word "Paganism" is is wrong in so many ways, it clearly displays your ignorance of language, history and religion. What does it mean? It comes from Latin "Paganus" meaning peasant, and came to be in the time when Christianity had established itself in the ruling class of the Roman Empire, and was used to describe the Non-Christian beliefs, of the peasantry. It quickly became a derogative for Non-Christians, similar to the later "Heathen" and in the same attitude of Barbarian and Infidel. It is useless in describing ancient religions, as it at best only tells you that it isn't Christian, and at worst denigrates ancient beliefs into mere superstition, instead of acknowledging their complexity and cultural importance. If you went back in time to 9th century Scandinavia, and asked a person if they were "Ásatrú", they would answer "yes of course", because yes they do belive in the Æsir. So even if "Ásatrú" as a word is a modern construct, it would be a word that would easily be understood by a 9th century Scandinavian. If you said to them that they were "Pagan" they wouldn't understand you, and if you explained to them what it meant, you would get your arse handed to you.

2:50 that is a lie. Baltic pagans were the last to be christianized in Europe.

pog

Are you plural? Lol

2:50 that is a lie. Lithuania was the last state to be christianized in Europe. It could also be streched to Ugro-Finnish pagans in Eastern Europe such as Perm who would also accept christianity around 14-15th century.

3:56 is such a brain dead take. the implication of this claim is that there wasn't a single chieftain in scandanavia with legitimate religious convictions that was won over by catholic rhetoric which is both highly improbable and entirely unproveable. I get that the point you're getting at is that the decision to convert was primarily a political one made by the ruling class which is true but the author's definitive statement that politics was the only factor at play comes off as highly dismissive and honestly a little spiteful

I salute your efforts at pronouncing my goofy ahhh language 🫡 (you say Swedish names quite well)

An interesting topic would be Zoroastrianism, as CK3 seems to have some weird parts of the religion that I couldn’t find any proof for. Particularly, the Sun Trial. Sounds badass, but it seems really weird for them to have actually done this, and it’d be interesting to see where that comes from.