RETRACT Nature Magazine’s Turin Shroud Report? | feat. Guy Powell

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Nature magazine’s 1989 report on the carbon 14 dating of the Turin Shroud and the dating itself have come under increasing scrutiny in recent years. Now, Shroud researcher and author Guy Powell joins host Mike Creavey to discuss a new petition he is spearheading in an attempt to get Nature to retract that report. Check it out!
LINKS/RESOURCES:
- Petition direct link if you’d like to sign: www.change.org...
- Guy’s official website: guypowell.com/
- Shroud of Turin official website: shroud.com
- Nature’s original Shroud radiocarbon dating report (Feb. 16, 1989): www.nature.com... … you can get the whole article for free here on the official Shroud website: www.shroud.com...
- “The Shroud of Turin C-14 dating: Triumph or Travesty?” video by Michael Kowalski of the British Society for the Turin Shroud that Guy mentioned: vimeo.com/8387...
- “An instructive inter-laboratory comparison: The 1988 radiocarbon dating of the Shroud of Turin” (Walsh & Schwalbe): www.sciencedir...
- Ascension Press’ outstanding “Ascension” app: ascensionpress...
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To find more faith-enriching content than you’ll know what to do with and to contact Mike Creavey, be sure to visit thegraciousgue...

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2 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 117

@mattkinsch4180 4 месяца назад

There was an interesting situation with the dating of the Sudarium of Oviedo (what might be the head covering) that I think sheds light on what happened with the shroud dating. For the Sudarium, they did use a blind test. One of the five blind samples was a linen from an Egyptian mummy that was a few thousand years old, but the lab dated it the 20th century, thousands of years off the actual date. When told the results, the lab asked whether the sample had been handled often because their cleaning process wouldn't remove human oils deposited from frequent handling. Their process was decades newer then the process used on the shroud. The section of the shroud test was EXACTLY were people in the middle ages constantly handled the fabric. It seems likely the shroud's RCD was just contaminated by oils from handlers in the middle ages.

@redeemedchannel5580 5 месяцев назад

This is good, but I would caution against demanding further tests. What makes you think the same “establishment” who conspired the first time won’t do it again? Serious question.

@johnmichaelson9173 5 месяцев назад

Yeah, it's always a conspiracy when it's something that the general public couldn't careless about. 🤦

@redeemedchannel5580 5 месяцев назад

Made international headlines bud.

@briandillon8041 5 месяцев назад

That’s a good point. I was reading the British society newsletter. I was watching the video and there’s a great article on Secondo, Pia it was actually two priest came out, saying he was a fraud on the power photograph. They were lying.

@briandillon8041 5 месяцев назад

There’s academic freight everywhere these days. They probably would be worse now since the cultures far more secular than in the 70s and 80s. I would do it anyway maybe have it under the control of the British shroud society or someone like that

@johnmichaelson9173 5 месяцев назад

@@redeemedchannel5580 Yesterdays paper's fella, you're telling everyone it's Jesus anyway & the vast majority of people just don't care.

@johnmccarthy8985 5 месяцев назад

John 2:20 said the Temple took 46 years to build. From 1978 in October the significant year of Shroud research to 2024 is 46 years……Just Saying. Great interview!

@WinItReigns 5 месяцев назад

Happy Shroud Day😊 May The Faith Be With You All

@lindamorgan2023 5 месяцев назад

News - NASA engineer has done unique photography of the shroud that captures split seconds of the image. SURPRISE ! He was able to capture of instant of the resurrection - they were trying to discover how the image was created. Rather split seconds of it. . . . And it shows movement of the nails falling out - coins moved . PROOF POSITIVE of Christ taking up live again - the resurrection of His body. Just like He said He would do. Just like the apostles said He did. And just like He told - He will be coming back. Praise be.

@WinItReigns 5 месяцев назад

@@lindamorgan2023 Yeshua Reigns!

@charlesvanneste2834 4 месяца назад

I listened to a podcast that interviewed one of the initial scientists that studied the shroud, he claimed that the sample they took was a sample from one of the repaired sections, not an original section. Can this claim be verified?

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

This is true. It was almost *20 years ago* that Dr. Ray Rogers, a scientist at Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories in New Mexico, *proved* that the carbon testing was done in error as the sample taken was from non-original part of the Shroud. The Shroud of Turin is 2000 years old.

@briandillon8041 5 месяцев назад

I think the word you’re looking for is “agenda“ Think of all the damage those guys did to people faith around the world could’ve been used as a great way to bring more people to Christ.

@hughfarey3734 4 месяца назад

In many ways I suppose I should be delighted by this petition, as if presented it will strongly distance any purported authenticist 'science' from serious consideration, and tend to strengthen the medieval position to the point of invulnerability. However I think that would be a pity, as there is genuinely a conversation to be had, which this petition will inevitably block, probably irrevocably. FIRST: Even if thousands of people 'sign' this petition, without any information about their qualification to do so, such as having read the paper they are demanding to retract, or whether they are scientists or historians with any knowledge of the subject, Nature, and the whole scientific community, will rightly reject it out of hand as merely emotionally driven, rather than having any valid reason for retraction. SECOND: The petition is firmly grounded not on scientific grounds, but on allegations of malpractice which are untargeted, unspecified, and unevidenced. Much is made of the so-called 'Turin Protocol,' of which no-one has a copy, no-one authorised, and no one signed. The protocol issued to the radiocarbon laboratories was written, authorised and signed by representatives of the owner and custodian of the Shroud, and was very different. In championing this as fraud, Guy Powell is not accusing the radiocarbon team, or the Nature paper authors, of anything, but supposing that Pope John-Paul II and Cardinal Archbishop Ballestrero conspired to generate evidence that the supposed burial cloth of Jesus was medieval. Whether this was so or not is irrelevant to the science of the Nature paper. THIRD: Guy muddles himself with two contradictory ideas in claiming firstly, that the three laboratories communicated their findings and conspired to ensure that their results were compatible, and also that in fact each one correctly evaluated the radiocarbon content of the sample they were given. This demonstrates the weakness of the allegations of fraud throughout the discussion above. FOURTH: If there is any justification for re-evaluating the paper, it would be in the statistical analysis of the results, which was largely carried out and co-ordinated by Morven Leese, the British Museum's senior statistician. Although she is never mentioned by name above, if there is any serious allegation of fraud, the buck falls on her, although of course all her calculations and conclusions were discussed and confirmed by the laboratories and consultees. However, Guy''s insistence that she was dishonest is based on the discovery of a possible chronological gradient across the three samples, which in turn depends on knowledge of the order in which the samples were cut from the Shroud, which was unknown at the time. Had she known, no doubt Miss Leese would have taken the results into account, but simply insisting that she was obstinately dishonest is unfair and unevidenced. FIFTH: Nevertheless, now that we know the relative positions of the samples on the Shroud, there could be cause for re-evaluating the Nature paper, and even for retraction if the conclusion that the Shroud is medieval could be shown to be substantially incorrect on those grounds. However, as STuRP scientist Larry Schwalbe has demonstrated, even under the strictest scrutiny, the conclusions of the paper would hardly be affected at all. On behalf of the authenticist cause, I strongly advise that this petition go no further.

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

"The original analysis of the shroud was done by STURP in 1978; however it wasn't until 1988 when radiocarbon dating and microscopy was done on the shroud by a team of scientists. The date came back proving it was produced between 1260-1390 AD. The tests were done in 3 different labs ( in Oxford, Arizona and Switzerland) with a 95% accuracy on the results. I would say it's not very coincidental then that the shroud 1st appeared on the world stage in 1357 AD (aka 14th century). Some claim that a fire in 1532 in a church in France, where the shroud was kept, caused an inaccurate carbon date. However, most scientists who specialize in carbon 14 dating techniques still firmly claim the tests are accurate- fire or not. According to Dr. McCrone, who was part of the 1988 investigative team, "The suggestions that modern biological contaminants were sufficient to modernize the date are also ridiculous. A weight of 20th century carbon equaling nearly two times the weight of the Shroud carbon itself would be required to change a 1st century date to the 14th century". Some claim that the part that was taken from the shroud for the carbon 14 tests may have been from a section that was restitched by nuns after the fire of 1532 in 1534. If that is true then why is the carbon 14 date not dated to the 1500's (they are dated to the 1300's)?

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

Those of us not morons know that it was almost *20 years ago* that Dr. Ray Rogers, a scientist at Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories in New Mexico, *proved* that the carbon testing was done in error as the sample taken was from non-original part of the Shroud. The Shroud of Turin is 2000 years old. Rather sad how many low IQ people there are out there that will call the Holy Shroud a fake due to their own ignorance.

@IosuamacaMhadaidh 4 месяца назад

For every good scientist, there are two other types; those who are soooo invested in Atheism they can't let anything prove them wrong, and the corruptible ones, either go along types or greed/prestige.

@devilmonkey427 4 месяца назад

How much magic have you discovered in this natural world?

@edbutzwiggle4227 4 месяца назад

Interesting. Thanks for sharing that.

@conceicaotavora5599 5 месяцев назад

Boa tarde !!! Olá 🇵🇹

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

The first documented evidence of the Shroud dates back to 1357, when it surfaced at a church at Lirey, near the eastern French town of Troyes. In 1390, Pope Clement VII declared that it was not the true shroud but could be used as a representation of it, provided the faithful be told that it was not genuine.

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

The Bishop's letter claiming an artist confessed to "painting" it is a moot point: the shroud image is not made with paint, chemicals or dyes. The yellowing of the very thin fibers that form the image is on the surface of the thread and disappears when weaved under, so no fluids were used or capillary action would have soaked the entire thread. Image had to be formed by some form of radiation or heat. The medieval "artist" or forger would need access to equipment not yet invented (like VUV lasers) and have forensic knowledge not discovered until centuries later (damage to the nerve in the wrist causing the thumb to retract, bilirubin in the blood suggesting trauma/torture, blood and water issuing from the torso wound). These facts combined with the photographic and 3-dimensional characteristics is enough to put the forgery claim to rest. And there is a lot more that supports the argument for an authentic Shroud.

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 *The Shroud of Turin Is Definitely a Hoax* There is no record of the shroud prior to the fourteenth century and the earliest definitive record of the shroud is a letter recording that the forger who made it had confessed, but also because of a wide array of other factors. For instance, the shroud doesn’t match the kinds of funerary wrappings that were used in the Judaea in the first-century AD or the specific description of Jesus’s funerary wrappings given in the Gospel of John. The fabric of the shroud has also been conclusively radiocarbon dated to the Late Middle Ages. The Shroud of Turin is probably the most famous supposed relic in existence. It is a 4.4-meter-long linen shroud bearing the image of a crucified man. Supporters of the shroud claim that it is the actual burial shroud of Jesus of Nazareth and that the image on the shroud is the true image of Jesus, created at the moment of his resurrection. It is easy to see why this idea is so appealing. If the shroud were authentic, it would be a remarkable source of information about Jesus the human being. Unfortunately, we can be virtually certain that the Shroud of Turin is a hoax that was originally created in France in around the 1350s AD by an artist trained in the Gothic figurative style as part of a faith-healing scam. We know this primarily because there is no definitive record of the shroud prior to the fourteenth century and the earliest definitive record of the shroud is a letter recording that the forger who made it had confessed, but also because of a wide array of other factors. For instance, the shroud doesn’t match the kinds of funerary wrappings that were used in the Judaea in the first-century AD or the specific description of Jesus’s funerary wrappings given in the Gospel of John. The fabric of the shroud has also been conclusively radiocarbon dated to the Late Middle Ages. Additionally, the proportions of the figure on the shroud are anatomically incorrect, but they closely match the proportions of figures in Gothic art of the fourteenth-century. The bloodstains on the shroud are not consistent with how blood flows naturally, which suggests the stains have been painted on. Finally, the fabric of the shroud was made using a complex weave that was common in the Late Middle Ages for high-quality textiles but was not used for burial shrouds in the time of Jesus.

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 STURP’s own tape-lifted surface samples were examined by renowned forensic microanalyst Walter C. McCrone. He discovered red ocher pigment making up the image (but not the background, so it was not contamination) and identified the “blood” as tempera paint containing red ocher and vermillion with traces of rose madder-pigments used by medieval artists to depict blood (McCrone 1996; Nickell 2013, 122-124). For his efforts, McCrone was held to a secrecy agreement while statements were made to the press that there was no evidence of artistry. Subsequent claims that the tempera “blood” was genuine have ranged from the incompetent to the disingenuous (Nickell 1998, 143-144, 156-158).

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@DocReasonable BS. The Shroud image is so incredible that the burden of proof rests on those who think it is a forgery. STURP team spent over two years preparing a series of tests that would gather a vast amount of Shroud data in a relatively short period of time. STURP's primary goal was to determine the scientific properties of the image on the Shroud of Turin, and what might have caused it: After years of exhaustive study and evaluation of the data, STURP issued its Final Report in 1981: "We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist." "The answer to the question of how the image was produced or what produced the image remains, now, as it has in the past, a mystery." No one has ever proven these 33 scientists and engineers wrong. All were part of leading tech firms. Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Lockheed Corporation* U.S. Air Force Weapons Laboratories* Brooks Institute of Photography* University of Colorado* Oceanographic Services Inc.* Nuclear Technology Corporation* U.S. Air Force Academy* Jet Propulsion Laboratory* Sandia National Laboratory*, etc. The STRUP team included three Jewish members, one Mormon, one Evangelical, several Catholics, several Protestants and some avowed atheists and agnostics. Had religion ever been a criterion for membership, most of the STURP team members would never have agreed to participate. The notion that it is a forgery (a painting, other work of art) has been disproved so thoroughly and absolutely that it is permanently buried; they are based in part on the denial of empirical data. The scholarly consensus a mere 60 years ago deemed the Shroud a medieval fraud; the present evidence allows a firm archaeological judgement for authenticity.

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@DocReasonable Oh, and moron? McCrone has been dead for over 20 years. His hilarious "findings" have been debunked many times. Sad that's all you have in which to call the Holy Shroud a fake. Sucks to be you.

@kimfleury 5 месяцев назад

Signed and added a comment...but didn't catch the error until hitting "publish" 😕 Autocorrect changed "have" to "are." Oh well, it is what it is. Thank you for pointing me to the petition!

@berniefynn6623 5 месяцев назад

IN BIBLICAL TIMES THE BODY WAS NOT WRAPPED HEAD TO TO TOE AND THERE WAS A SEPARATE CLOTH OVER THE FACE

@briandillon8041 5 месяцев назад

The part about the separate cloth called “the napkin“ being over his face and placed in a separate place in the tent, is literally in the gospel. So you’re wrong.

@berniefynn6623 5 месяцев назад

@@briandillon8041 ??????????????????????????

@sliglusamelius8578 5 месяцев назад

The sudarium of Oviedo is the head cloth and it has blood stain that matches the shroud blood stain. It is known to have been in a church in Spain since the 600s, so early that the shroud dating was wrong. Wide angle xray scatter test dated the shroud to about 2000 years ago. Look it up.

@tonycoker6523 4 месяца назад

To me the image in the shroud looks more of a man with European features in the face and nose does not fit what a man of Jewish features would look like.

@sliglusamelius8578 4 месяца назад

@@tonycoker6523 That's ridiculous. Contrary to European conceptions, the shroud figure has long hair. Also contrary to European conceptions, the nails did not go through the palms. Finally, no European could create that image in the Middle Ages because nobody can recreate that image today! It's not paint. It's a radiation burn of intensity and topographical representation of body parts that cannot be reproduced by modern science. How can you overlook data like that? The xray wide field scatter dating technique dated the thing to a couple thousand years ago.

@dalie95327 5 месяцев назад

Can’t be duplicated. Robert 10:59 Rucker a nuclear scientist has a theory on how the image was form by a resurrection of the body of Jesus. He has even shown that the shroud image shows the very,very small movement of parts of the body moving as the resurrection of the body is occuring.

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@DocReasonable Those of us with even a tiny bit of intelligence know that the bishop's letter to the Pope was after a local artist, in a feeble attempt to make a name for himself, told him that it was he that painted the cloth. The bishop, being the gullible old fool that he was, took him at his word. Of course, they did not have the testing back then they do now, or they quickly would have discovered that there is not so much as a drop of paint, or any other manmade material on the image on the Shroud. The fact is that there are no pigments, paints, dyes or stains have been found on the fibrils. There are no chemical or physical methods known which can account for the totality of the image, nor can any combination of physical, chemical, biological or medical circumstances explain the image adequately. There currently is a $1,000,000 reward out there for anyone that can prove that the image on there was manmade. Why don't you go claim it if you think that you know more than everyone else on the planet does?

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 "There currently is a $1,000,000 reward out there for anyone that can prove that the image on there was manmade." Do you not even know that the Shroud is under lock and key and NOBODY can get to it?? And what 'bishop' are U blabbering about?! It's entirely dubious U have even that 'tiny bit of intelligence' you boast about.

@sigurdholbarki8268 4 месяца назад

@@DocReasonableSo?

@richardcutt727 5 месяцев назад

I recommend reading 'Judgement Day For The Shroud of Turin' by the only true expert ever to have studied the Shroud. The inestimable Dr Walter McCrone. An expert on chemical microscopy. His findings are stunning. The Shroud is a magnificent piece of medieval art and was intended to defraud pilgrims of their hard earned cash.

@richardcutt727 5 месяцев назад

McCrone discovered through microscopy and electron microscopy that the 'blood' image areas were Vermillion. And a 14th century form of Vermillion to boot. This is why the 'blood' images have remained red to this day. Real blood would have turned black quickly. The blood images are a painted on Vermillion. The image areas are painted in 14 th century red ochre pigment with a protein gel. The protein gel made from bones and parchment.

@sliglusamelius8578 5 месяцев назад

What? The only expert? Excuse me, but the STURP team was a team of various specialists who studied the thing, and they demonstrated that there is no pigment on it, it cannot be reproduced by modern methods, and the image is probably a UV radiation burn of an intensity that cannot be done by modern scientists. Nobody in the sturp team knows exactly how the image got there. But John Jackson PhD believes that it was a radiation event. There is topographical representation of body parts based on intensity of the image, with body parts closer to the cloth being most intense. It is a photographic negative. Nobody can reproduce its features.

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@richardcutt727 If you are dumb enough to believe that the Shroud is medieval, then you must explain how whoever fabricated it must have: 1. Known the precise methods of crucifixion in the first century. 2. Be proficient enough in over 100 scientific disciplines and also collectively outweigh the intelligence of the people who performed hundreds and hundreds of tests on the Shroud and who are not finding any indications of a forgery. 3. Possessed the medical knowledge of a modern expert surgeon. 4. Utilized an art process unknown to any great master, never duplicated before or since. 5. Be able to foresee and approximate principles of photographic negativity that would not be discovered for centuries. 6. Imported a piece of old cloth of Middle Eastern manufacture. 7. Used a coloring agent which would be unaffected by intense heat. 8. Be able to incorporate in his work details (that have only recently been discovered), that the human eye cannot see and that are visible only with the most advanced computer-scanning devices. 9. Be able to reproduce flawlessly, on a nearly flat linen surface, in a single color, undistorted 3-D characteristics of a human body in a 'negative format' on the tops of the threads, while conversely showing the 'blood' as positive and soaking all the way through. 10. Get somewhere the blood of a tortured man and apply it before creating the image. 11. Get limestone from Jerusalem, and pollen particles from the middle east, in special from plants with thorns, that flourish only between March and April.

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

@@sliglusamelius8578 STURP’s own tape-lifted surface samples were examined by renowned forensic microanalyst Walter C. McCrone. He discovered red ocher pigment making up the image (but not the background, so it was not contamination) and identified the “blood” as tempera paint containing red ocher and vermillion with traces of rose madder-pigments used by medieval artists to depict blood (McCrone 1996; Nickell 2013, 122-124). For his efforts, McCrone was held to a secrecy agreement while statements were made to the press that there was no evidence of artistry. Subsequent claims that the tempera “blood” was genuine have ranged from the incompetent to the disingenuous (Nickell 1998, 143-144, 156-158).

@TheMoneypresident 5 месяцев назад

The body is 2 dimensions. Look where the heads meet. Fold cloth and account for height.

@sliglusamelius8578 5 месяцев назад

What? None of the STURP team raised any questions about the 3D topography of the body in the shroud. The topography is based on intensity of the burn related to the proximity of the body part to the cloth,

@berniefynn6623 4 месяца назад

The bible says Jesus was wrapped is strips of cloth

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

Wrong. . 'And Joseph bought a linen *shroud,* and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen *shroud* [Mark 15:46] 2. 'And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen *shroud'* [Matthew 27:59] 3. 'Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen *shroud'* [Luke 23:53] Each of the synoptic Gospels mention Joseph of Arimathea making use of a single linen cloth to wrap the body of Jesus for burial. The Word 'Sindon' (singular noun ) means 'A clean sheet' and the Word 'Othonion' (plural noun) means 'bandages'. Luke uses the same plural noun (Othonion), “funeral linens,” in his account of the Resurrection (Luke 24: 12) after earlier speaking of the singular burial cloth (Sindon) or *shroud* (Luke 23 :53) . This plural noun mentioned in (Luke 24: 12) is intended to include all the funeral elements such as : 1) A long *shroud( - It's used to wrap whole body 2)A face cloth or 'Soudarion' - It's not used to wrap whole head but to wipe the perspiration from one’s face. The Greek word 'Soudarion' was derived from a Latin word for “sweat.” 3)A few stripes of linen - They help to tie a shroud around a body The Fourth Gospel never mentions such a 'Sindon'. Instead, John writes of Joseph and Nicodemus “binding the body of Jesus in strips of linen” The verb 'Binding' ( δέω) is frequently found in the context of binding a prisoner with chains. (Mark 5.3; 6.17; Acts 12.6; 21.33) John uses the same verb in Revelation for the 'binding' of the dragon (Rev 20: 2)

@TheGraciousGuest 4 месяца назад

Please watch my interview with Fr. Andrew Dalton. He specifically addresses this challenge.

@berniefynn6623 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 John 19"40

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@berniefynn6623 Bad translation. The shroud itself proves that he was not wrapped up like King Tut.

@berniefynn6623 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 IF this is the shroud

@DocReasonable 4 месяца назад

In an attempt to replicate the Shroud of Turin, Butthead beat up Beavis one day and wrapped him in a white sheet. After several days, Butthead unwrapped his unfortunate friend to reveal Beavis had left an uncanny imprint on the sheet. Mystery solved.

@TheMoneypresident 5 месяцев назад

It's only a front and back image. As seen from front and back. Sides and top? 🤔

@briandillon8041 5 месяцев назад

You need a shroud 101 course before you make such stupid statements. There are plenty of good books and videos on RU-vid for this.

@markwrede8878 5 месяцев назад

The dating doesn't matter since the model was a Greek or Italian and not a Palestinian of the first century.

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

What? What the heck are you even talking about? What 'model'??

@markwrede8878 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 Body proportions of the subject model cannot be Jesus.

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@markwrede8878 What? What in the world? Who told you that ridiculous lie? And you _believed_ it?? Wow. 🤦‍♂

@markwrede8878 4 месяца назад

@@beverlyhurd8556 Italian Biblical scholar Marcello Cravelli. Who told you the ridiculous lie you're selling?

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@markwrede8878 Who the hell is Cravelli and what makes you think that he knows more about the Shroud than all of the scores of scientists that have examined it? What would a biblical scholar know about how tall or short Jesus was anyway? You do think every once in a while, don't you?

@buddypage11 5 месяцев назад

That very unique weave on that shroud did not exist until shortly before that carbon date. Thereby, neither did that shroud exist before its weave was developed, in Europe.

@briandillon8041 5 месяцев назад

Yes, that’s sort of the point. It’s a medieval herringbone weed that’s only on the corners. There’s a very famous housewife and saw especially about this on PBS and realized it was on the shroud. She was able to prove that it was a patch done later. You should know that if you’re commenting on this. This was published research. Also, I think they knew they were taking a sample from that spot. Why else would you only take a sample from the patch. On the 30 foot long cloth they took three samples of all from the same little corner. Think about that.

@therealfronzilla 5 месяцев назад

It was repaired in a fire on the 13th century. There is pollen on the shroud that can only be found in Palestinian. The clouds been the most studied piece archeology in the history of archeology.. I mean if you want to leave a comment that's misinformed you don't understand, that's fine however, if you want to kind of leave an opinion about something such as this with this magnitude maybe you shouldn't be more of an informed opinion trade research is it's pretty easy, dude

@buddypage11 5 месяцев назад

@@therealfronzilla You'll be aghast when you finally grasp who is disputing you. My pen name is "Seven Star Hand." Peace and Wisdom...

@beverlyhurd8556 4 месяца назад

@@buddypage11 If you really are stupid enough to believe the Shroud is medieval, then you must explain how whoever fabricated it must have: 1. Known the precise methods of crucifixion in the first century. 2. Be proficient enough in over 100 scientific disciplines and also collectively outweigh the intelligence of the people who performed hundreds and hundreds of tests on the Shroud and who are not finding any indications of a forgery. 3. Possessed the medical knowledge of a modern expert surgeon. 4. Utilized an art process unknown to any great master, never duplicated before or since. 5. Be able to foresee and approximate principles of photographic negativity that would not be discovered for centuries. 6. Imported a piece of old cloth of Middle Eastern manufacture. 7. Used a coloring agent which would be unaffected by intense heat. 8. Be able to incorporate in his work details (that have only recently been discovered), that the human eye cannot see and that are visible only with the most advanced computer-scanning devices. 9. Be able to reproduce flawlessly, on a nearly flat linen surface, in a single color, undistorted 3-D characteristics of a human body in a 'negative format' on the tops of the threads, while conversely showing the 'blood' as positive and soaking all the way through. 10. Get somewhere the blood of a tortured man and apply it before creating the image. 11. Get limestone from Jerusalem, and pollen particles from the middle east, in special from plants with thorns, that flourish only between March and April.

@sigurdholbarki8268 4 месяца назад

@@buddypage11yes, the corner with the late medieval/early renaissance repair. However a parallel is known for the weave and fibres making up the rest of the cloth and that would be first century Judea (either Masada or Qumran, can't remember which)