Imagine being in space were beam weapons have the advantage, and your entire group is getting wiped out not by beam weapons but by a first generation Zaku machine gun.. I didn't even know they still made those.
@@u.npeacekeeperball432 Experience has nothing to do with MS tankiness. You could put Char on Honda Camry and he wouldn't be able to withstand a tank shells.
@@dudududu1926 Why, of all things are you comparing a car to a mobile suit? There are many factors, and Char is a newtype for one, also he is speed. Red Comet goes zoom zoom. And experience does have some play in combat. It's like giving kids an M1A1 Abrams, while giving veterans a T72B3. Who would win? Obviously the veterans, with their given experience, expertise and comfortability with their ergonomics. The kids are obviously gonna fumble and panic.
What many people have not realize when fighting in space, is that it would be very difficult to determine the location of your enemies, when fighting on the ground, you just gotta either look behind, ahead, or to your sides, and maybe occasionally look up. But in space, since you could be anywhere, and since there ain't any gravity, you could say, float above your target several hundred miles away. So you would have to constantly at all directions constantly, and if you're in a giant mecha, at least depending on it's surveilance and detection scanners or whatever equivelant they have, then it would still be hard to find out where you need to shoot
Look on the bright side. They got one MS who probably is living with the regret he killed and is about to be killed by kids. Compare this to the Windam who serve as target dummies and would probably die to the GM Cannon kids while their beam rifles and nukes hit nothing
To be fair from their lack of discipline and young appearances it's implied that they were supposed to be like young probably just barely got out of mobile suit training
Even in Thunderbolt, a decidedly pro-EF series, EF MS are always killed in such droves. It always irked me considering during the later parts of the war, the EF had more experienced pilots on hand while experienced Zeon pilots were running out. The arc where the EF uses teens to pilot all those suits which get mostly slaughtered is just laughably bad. Like, these aren't run of the mill GMs, which MIGHT have made sense, but upgraded GMs with custom and likely expensive equipment.
The feds probably sent inexperienced pilots because they don't care about the thunderbolt sector, most of the veteran pilots are probably sent somewhere tactically important, thunderbolt is before the battle of A Baoa Qu so the feds probably kept the veteran pilots in reserve for that operation.
@@lag2182 There's literally nobody else to pilot them. They just got a bunch of kids fresh out of college, trained them to pilot a MS as best they could, slapped officer tags on them, and sent them out to fight. You might think that's crazy, but that's exactly how they did it in Vietnam. In fact, they had way more pilots than planes for most of the war, and in the early years of Vietnam, it was a meat grinder. Lots of pilots were being shot down by more experienced Soviet pilots.
I always thought TB was pretty Pro-Zeon tbh. Only watched the movies but Daryl was the main focus and had a lot more humane moments. Io had his moments but TB gave the impression of Zeon having the Amuro and the EF having the Char for once, which makes more sense when the Perfect Gundam and Zeong are brought into the fray.
@@bellgrand You'd put them into balls not gms. Besides the federation isn't that desperate for kids, plenty of adults still laying around. Vietnam always had conscription problems. Even in Stalingrad the civvies were digging trenches and helping bandage not directly fighting on front lines.
GMs are as delicate or bulky as the plot demands lol, I swear most are pretty good or at least decent grunt suits but so many gundam writers just have them die in droves so their fav zeon suits can look good
0:57 Imagine being this guy, just... cleaved in half by an enemy MS's melee weapon. Not even a beam saber or anything like that, but a heat hawk. The sheer intense... well.. heat it puts out while melting through the armour and internals would be enough to cook skin through sheer proximity. Even if you died instantly after the blade cut through you, the intense pain before hand would be agonizing. Edit: and the MS doesn't even explode afterwards, if, against all odds you survive being cut in half, whatever short time you have left would be in utter agony because of constant burning sensation that the cross section cauterization would have caused, not just through your skin, and muscle, but your internal organs. That pilot was still screaming after his MS was cut in half, he did not die quickly or painlessly.
You know, for gms said to rival the dom in terms of armor and mobility, my dissapointment is immeasurable in thunderbolt Maybe this is where all of zeon’s planned gelgoog pilots went- kicking cannon ass in thunderbolt while leaving their own noobs to their own probs
Zeon's Living Dead Division is a dump for crippled pilots, (only having to assume defensive positions) so them having experienced pilots isn't suprising. the Dom pilot does kick ass in a Gelgoog later on.
The pilots were literally children and they were up against veteran pilots with more skills that even a zaku could snipe them from afar with just it's 120mm rifle, it's not a matter of the GM being actually inferior to the Dom it's a matter of experience, with the right pilot under the right training with enough experience they could pilot a ball or a g fighter and still take out a squad of zaku's it's simply a matter of experience, if those GM's had veteran pilots they would be able to wipe the enemy quite easily rather than overwhelm them with numbers which will work, which is what the Federation tactics rely on, simply mass producing and fielding out more pilots to combat to send out in waves that's how they defended Jaburo and that's how they took A baoa qu meaning the GM is still a superior mobile suit in terms of mass production compared to the earlier zaku II's and it's variants, the rick doms, the later produced gelgoogs, or even against mobile armors because in sheer numbers with the kind of armor and weaponry the GM's carry compared to what Zeon has which relies mostly on projectile weapons instead of firing beams, Zeon would have lost because that's like mobile suits made to fight battleships against mobile suits with the capability of a single salamis class destroyer designed specifically for mobile suit combat, Zeon never stood the chance
@@Memelord1117 TBF, the fight was pretty even. Daryl only "won" because Zeon reinforcements showed up after he and Io had pummeled their MSs into a non functional state.
Who would win? A MS that is legitimately statistically superior to drop kick Zaku and blast them to reminisce the end of Zeon all over again, in the hands of a special unit. Or one old Le Chonk with a Ratatatatat
@@a.p.studios8713probably because the cannon and the beam saber mount took up space on the backpack. But yeah your point still stands, they could've atleast moved the BS mount from the backpack to the hip skirts then add a sub arm, and there is no excuse for removing the core block when normal Thunderbolt GMs have them.
The GM cannons are some of my favorite, even if they are getting wrecked I just love to see them on screen. The Original animal gave it all the love it needed😂
you are actually kidding me with how the GMs and Guncannons basically just get insta killed by machine guns, while a zaku can literally tank 30 beam shots before it goes down, sometimes zeon plot armor really takes me out of UC stuff.
@@Fulcrox being a trained veteran doesn't make it so that your machine somehow has much more armor than it should, the spray gun can still penetrate a Zaku, and the beam sniper rifle that the guncannon has, has more power than the gundam's rifle.
@@TheKusa5 as You can see, Recruits werent even properly using the Guncannon beam cannon, some just spamed the spray gun while the Zaku Pilot could take the inmobile targets with no issue
had a love-hate relationship towards Thunderbolt, when the animaton has the viable for being a grounded Gundam series, but tends not to do so and test the charts of disbelief.
@@FederationMS787 I mean, ever since Unicorn everything's become incredibly Zeon apologist and every new production wants to heavily revise the OYW to pretend Zeon didn't commit a ton of atrocities like genociding entire Sides of colonies, and that it wasn't instantly on the back foot the moment the GM rolled out and flipped who had the technological advantage: from superior performance, more abundant resources, and more powerful weaponry. Plus the skill and experience gap rapidly began to shrink as valuable skilled Zeon pilots started die off while the Federation's skilled roster could only expand with its plethora of Type 61 crews and Saberfish pilots itching to have the equipment playing field leveled (such as Blue Destiny's Yuu Kajima, whose primary motivation is a thirst for power born from his feelings of helplessness against the abilities of a mobile suit without having their own equivalent) The basic production line GM had superior specs and armaments than everything Zeon had but for the Gelgoogs, which came out too late and in too few of number to make a difference; but in basically everything made now, they clearly want to make it look like the Zaku II was still better (but GM canonically had nearly double the acceleration power in addition to tougher armor). The moment you turn your brain back on from any of these shows, you'd have to wonder how we're expected to still believe Zeon is actually losing the war and rapidly being backed into a corner when all we ever see is entire fleets being destroyed by a single Zaku or Rick Dom. Thunderbolt gets to hide behind being an alternate depiction, as does Origin, but they don't go so off the rails as to change the critical moments- they don't go Ghiren's Greed and entirely change the course of the war- Zeon's still losing while somehow utterly dominating every battle we get to see.
@@jakobvonbugmann of course both side have plot armor especially the gundam but I’m saying the zeon grunt have more plot armor then the federation grunt
They're probably a bit older than that. But it's something the Federation officers are constantly saying through the Gundam series: They're drafting children to fight in this war. Also, it's not even a stretch. In Korea and Vietnam, the average age of flight officers was around 20. Get em fresh out of college, train them for 9 months to fly a plane, and throw them into combat against experienced Soviet pilots. WW2 was even worse. The enlisted crew of those bombers were barely adults.
Every Gundam anime ever does this and it drives me nuts. Why did basically every GM that got hit instantly explode, but a Zaku getting hit took like 20 shots to rip it apart? Also the grunts of the Federation always get roflstomped to make the Gundam seem more badass?
And as usual the Damn Zeon Plot Armor, allows Even Disabled pilots to be “ The Bested Pilots Evea!” Notice how the feds are so easily destroyed by a couple of hits, when it takes dozens of hits, even with beam weapons to destroy a single Zaku?? Now that is some serious BS!!
The original Gundam universe was created during the heydays of the Tiger Tank myth. The GMs were the Shermans who allegedly were being killed at a 4 to 1 ratio to German tanks. This is now know to be untrue historically, but that myth had been transposed into the UC Gundam world and remained as a relic. Basically Zeon had been given perceived German technical superiority, before we realised it was grossly exaggerated.
@@redlightu all zeon have been fighting is tank and aircraft easily for most of the one year war what experiences is that I say the federation have way more experience because most of the gm pilot are fighter jet pilot and have air superiority over the zeon during the one year war it just that the director is a massive zeon fan
@@FederationMS787 Experience is experience, even Zeon pilots mostly familiar with fighting against Federation tanks and aircraft would still come out on top against the kid recruits we see here. Besides, the Living Dead Division had been fighting in the Thunderbolt sector for awhile anyway.
@@redlightu I just hate how every grunt suits in UC seem to be oneshotted by any type of beam weapon. At that point why even bothered with building MS anymore,
are we sure this isn't a au where the eff and zeon's people switcheds roles cause i really feel like the full armor gundam pilot is char and the psycho zaku is amuro
It is literally an AU. The first movie feels like it could easily be a normal side story. But once you read past that it becomes completely incompatible with normal UC.
You can say that again that last scene the Guncannon Pilot didn't check check if there were any people inside and just use the Beam Saber kill a bunch of people.
@@KingOfYamimakai No it was very checked and deliberate. Crew behind Cornelius was transmitting the room to the team outside; the people killed by that beam saber were poised to detonate the whole ship, their hands were literally on the trigger. That Cornelius almost had them actually talked down, well, that was never part of the plan as he found out the hard way.
@@gtf234 Damn talk about brutal as that just scared the survivor to the point where she mentally reduce to a child. It would have being less scaring if the GM Cannon just blast the ship with the cannon it has on the shoulder.
@@KingOfYamimakai the reason gm didn’t blow the ship because they intended to capture the ship since there mother ship was destroyed and there running out of oxygen the the girl and her friend was gonna blow themselves up
Zeon even uses disabled people who have lost limbs as pilots.It's crazy because it's a story about using a wheelchair as a weapon.It's a former kamikaze.
I dont get why the EFF would give the Moore Bortherhood these expensive to produce and high performance machines?And they're straight up wasting them by assigning kids to pilot them.
Who else would you assign to pilot them? The Federation started mass producing mobile suits ONE MONTH AGO (this battle occurs in December 0079; the first GMs and Guncannons rolled off the line in November 0079; Amuro first pilots the Gundam in September 0079). It seems all of these kids were given basic training and sent out with a more experienced pilot who was likewise given the minimum retraining.
If you wondering for this long it actually how they setup the output of the gundam beam while zeon train they soldiers hard and long the federation just benefit from numbers making them easy target really in war while they ace pilot got much better suit the regular soldier had to make do with old designs with is gm and it definitely not gonna cut the job
At this point, they should stop using GMs as it will explode by one shot from any random MS or whatever they come across. Those writers are ridiculous.
On the one hand... mobile suits are tanky or delicate as the plot demands, and statistically these models should crap all over the Zeon units fielded here, especially in such numbers. On the other hand, Mobile Suit weapons have pretty much always outpaced armour, and these GMs are being piloted by literal teens or early adults - volunteer students with the absolute bare minimum piloting knowledge versus an experienced force of Zeon pilots who know exactly what they're doing. Hell, these kids are seen treating it as a day trip, taking photos and hanging out. Basically every kill they get is down to luck or volume of fire, and in the plot they are quite literally just a sacrifice play to distract and maybe take down some of the snipers to give the Thunderbolt time to wipe out the opposing fleet.
the fact it was bunch of kids thy send to the battlefield and thy was get slaying and the only reason they got the first dude cause he ran out of bullet
Alright, kids. Allow me to give you a lesson 101. The Federation is using CHILD soldiers in mass. Wooo! Go federation! I see a lot of comments about how thunderbolt is "Zeon" bias. How exactly? From what I've saw: - Bias because Zeon should have never survived 30 shots from a beam spray gun. - Zeon armor too strong - They had numbers and GM armor is strong. Let me address the first issue. The beam spray gun, "... has an effective range less than the beam rifle, it is still capable of penetrating the armor of a Dom, which is said to be the most heavily armored unit throughout the OYW. In the novelization of the series, at short ranges the GM's beam spray gun was said to be more powerful than even the Gundam's beam rifle." SHORT ranges kids. It had a short barrel and could only be effective at shorter ranges. It's like saying a 9mm Glock 22 can do effective damage to a target at around 800 meters compared to a 5.56mm M4A2 Carbine. NO. The HK416 Carbine is obviously the better contender. Compare this idea to the BEAM RIFLE and BEAM SPRAY GUN. Additionally, it wasn't 30 shots. It was around ~5 shots total. Now onto "Zeon armor too strong" and "They had numbers and GM armor is strong". Yet, the RGC-80, "is one of the mid-range support mobile suits deployed by the Earth Federation Forces.[1] It shares about 60% of its parts with the GM (Thunderbolt Ver.) and uses the same handheld armament.[1] While the GM Cannon (Thunderbolt Ver.) appears to be a cannon-type configuration of the GM (Thunderbolt Ver.), **it is actually classified as simplified mass production version** of the RX-77 Guncannon (Thunderbolt Ver.)". SIMPLIFIED mass production version. Thus meaning, the Federation was focusing on QUANTITY than QUALITY. The same is stated for the MSG lore page. It's like having M4 Shermans (meant to be mass produced) up against a Tiger I. Obviously the Tiger I would win, no doubt (without the War efforts and crazyness, just one on one). Now even if you pin 30 Shermans to a Tiger I and Tiger II, their 76mm cannons likely won't be adequate in penetrating the armor of the Tiger I and Tiger II. Now apply this logic with the video. The GM Cannon is meant to be mass produced and shared parts with the RGM79 GM. Meanwhile, the Zaku II (from the MSG lore page), "could run at a speed of 85 km/h, leap 100m into the air with the use of its thrusters, and lift around 80-90t of weight with one hand. Its thrusters had a thrust of 45 tons. Though its punch had a force of 560t, doing so risked severely damaging its manipualators. Instead it more frequently used the spike armor on its left shoulder for shoulder tackle, which had a force of 4,500t." The Zaku II was ahead of its time. The Zeon development of Mobile Suits were far superior than the Federation. Why did you think they needed AE to develop their mobile suits for them? Why did you think AE hired Zeon mobile suit designers and engineers after Zeon collapsed? The "M-120A1 / ZMC38III" or simply the common Zaku Machine Gun was able to fire a variety of rounds. It purpose was versatile, "Its drum held 145 rounds.[1] Its rate of fire was 280 rounds per minute, with an effective range of 4,200m on the ground when using the laser-linked scope. It could fire a large variety of rounds, including APHE rounds, anti-ship AP rounds, shaped charge rounds, smoke rounds, signal rounds, flare rounds, and tracer rounds.[5]". Yes, I stated APBC, but it seems it was APCR rounds, I apologize. But again, the main weapon of the Zaku II was, again, ahead of its time. the APCR round was able to, "to be fired at a higher velocity. It has a much higher penetration than the Ap-3, and since it was primarily used in space, the greatest weakness of APCR shells - low velocity over long distances in the atmosphere - is not a problem". Note the "primarily used in space" part. It had a higher velocity which means a higher penetration. The same can be said with the U.S Naval railgun; its round is only 30mm and it speaks to armor like butter. The Zaku Machine Gun can also fire, "APHE rounds, anti-ship AP rounds, shaped charge rounds, smoke rounds, signal rounds, flare rounds, and tracer rounds". Now try applying that to the Federation's Beam Spray gun that has only three options, "The beam spray gun features three different firing modes: a basic single-shot mode, a burst shot mode for area suppression, and a range shot mode that scatters the beam to cause damage over a wide area. Output 1.4 MW". The Zaku Machine Gun has more purpose and can be used in many different ways than the Beam spray gun. The M120A1 can be used to 1) hunt ships down 2) suppress infantry 3) suppress armor columns 4) hunt down MS 5) provide close support for infantry and much more. What can the Beam Spray gun do? Suppress infantry and mobile suits with their scattering beam; which will do nothing but tickle MSes. A single shot that is only viable in medium-close ranges; a burst mode to suppress infantry, armor, etc. The beams dissipate more in space; unlike physical rounds that could travel forever. Of course, what about "Zeon plot armor!!!". Obviously, the Zeon have tried of Semi-Transparent Coating; which dissipated and reduces the effect/damage on the Mobile Suit. This was used before and within the early stages of the OYW. Thus worth noting that the Zaku II may have had some sort of coating to reduce the effects of the beam spray weapon. Heres the evidence: "emi-transparent coating protect the unit by having multiple layers all reflecting a certain wavelength of light and thus effectively reduces the energy of different laser weapons. This technology is also used in the colony laser Solar Ray, deployed by Zeon forces before the Battle of A Baoa Qu". There you have it. The Zeon used the same technology for their Solar Ray colony. Sources: gundam.fandom.com/wiki/MS-06F_Zaku_II gundam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Universal_Century_Weapons#Beam_Spray_Gun gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Gundam_Wiki:Technology#Mobile_Suit_Technology_-_Construction_&_Coating gundam.fandom.com/wiki/RGC-80_GM_Cannon gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Zaku_Machine_Gun
Dude, you are talking straight out of your ass if you don't think Thunderbolt is Zeon biased. Especially with how much it wants us to feel for the Zeon while demonizing the Federation. And as for some of your talking points: - There's absolutely no mention of the *ENTIRE* Zaku being covered in anti-beam coating, only it's shoulder shield (and that was reported way far up the timeline in 0096 where things like I-Fields exist). That and the coating you're talking about is for *LASERS* and is ineffective against *BEAM AND PARTICLE* weapons. - If you'd branched out your research of the GM beyond your own Zeon bias to the RGM-79's page, you would've also seen that the *BASE GM* was outperforming Rick Doms in space at this point in the OYW. The Zaku II might've been ahead of its time at the beginning of the OYW, but the Federation's mobile suits absolutely dumpstered them in just stats alone (I say stats because the pilot is an external factor that can make or break a unit, i.e. Io taking out several Goufs in only a GM Type-C). - Zeon's development of high-spec and experimental MS's and MA's is one of the primary factors behind why they lost. Manufacturing parts for all of them and shipping them where they needed to go was a logistical nightmare and ultimately bankrupted them in terms of resources. Compared to the GM's which all shared the same general parts and could be easily maintained, even in places that don't typically have more specialized units like the GM Cannon (after all, a base GM can be used to repair a GM Cannon, but a Zaku II can't be used to repair a Dom or Gelgoog). Hell, Zeon didn't really learn that lesson until units like the Geara Doga and Geara Zulu were developed.
The Federation was short on manpower; half the Earth's population died. And barely anybody had experience in mobile suit combat at the time. They were training kids fresh out of college, putting them in new mobile suits, and wished them the best of luck. The ones who survived would stick around as NCOs for the next batch of kids. And this isn't even a new thing. Go look up how old American bomber crews were in WW2; you only needed to be 17. The Soviets were signing up 16 year-olds.
Gundam Thunderbolt. In Japan they released this as a web anime and also made compilation movies called "December Sky" and "Bandit Flower" and If I remember correctly this is all from the first one "December Sky." I hope there'll be more of the anime. Manga series is still ongoing.
@@u.npeacekeeperball432Relativistic speed means it would be speed of Zaku + speed of bullet - speed of Guncannon, then nothing because bullets don't accelerate after leaving the muzzle. Fuck off with the wank physics, unless Zakus were flying full throttle straight into whatever they're shooting at, which they weren't, at no point would their speed be significant enough to add anything to their bullets. Moreover, the Guncannons were getting blown up from just gettung their heads or limbs destroyed, that's fucking stupid.
