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Riden RD6006 Power Supply Part4

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MAGIC SMOKE!
In this video I liberate some magic smoke.
I do not like the option to keep the power output on during memory selection but much worse is that the output is turned from off to on when a memory is selected.
Possibly an option to only keep the output on if it is already on may be better. Although I would still not use such an option.

Опубликовано:

27 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 51

@landofsummer 3 года назад

For my purpose I need the fewest keystrokes possible to change between specific presets. But believe that I set everything up before hand to protect my equipment. Just like I could easily turn my car off the road but my brain won't let my hands turn the wheel like that.

@markgreco1962 4 года назад

This is an excellent series

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Thanks.

@davidg4975 4 года назад

Valid point. It is good that you are making the public aware of this setting. I have upgraded the heatsink on one of their power modules and found they do not use transfer grease between transistor / insulator / heatsink. Great products but a lack of attention to finer detail.

@UniSoft2 4 года назад

FYI If anyone interested, you can find my custom firmware for RD6006. If you have any ideas, wishes, what to change or add in to the firmware, or found bugs, just let me know. www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ruideng-riden-rd6006-dc-power-supply/225/ monitor.net.ru/forum/threads/651114/page-6

@craigmunday3707 4 года назад

Excellent advice and explanation

@packratswhatif.3990 4 года назад

I would be temped to add a good quality relay to the output so your that DUT is completely disconnected from any remaining B+ voltage, while it adds a discharge resistor to the remaining filter caps for a faster discharge to zero. Maybe the OVP should also be a completely independent setting NOT saved to memory so it assumes the last setting used.

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Yes I absolutely agree on both points. I also think that the option to turn on the output when selecting memory should be separate from the output staying on when selecting a new memory setting although personally I would prefer a jumper on the board to remove this option entirely if not needed. Allowing a memory selection to change the OVP and OCP seems to make those settings a waste of time which is what my comment is really based on. I just do not like the idea that with a single key press the output can be set to 60V @ 6A without any warning or visibility that it is going to happen. I would prefer that the OVP and OCP are 'global' rather than stored as part of a memory setting. Maybe the supply could ask to raise the OVP and OCP if the selected memory settings are above the current settings with the default selection to be 'NO'.

@jontscott 4 года назад

Nice that they gave you the option to have the output automatically be disabled on change.

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

It is probably just personal preference but it is way too easy to simply forget that you have set something which could so easily destroy a board. I have run my own company for many years and engineers have a habit of setting 'personal preferences' and not always telling anyone that they have done it. This has cost me a fair amount of £'s over the years (and cost some engineers their jobs). For me it is equivalent to having a switch on the dashboard of my car which is labeled 'brakes Enabled' or 'Brakes Disabled'. My intention is to make very clear what the poorly labelled menu options do :)

@tablatronix 4 года назад

@@JerryWalker001 I imagine these options should only be enabled if you are using the PS for some kind of fast routine testing of a product, defiantly should not be enabled on a workbench

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Yes I agree and I doubt I would ever use them but someone may not realise the significance of changing a setting called 'Call Out'. I would prefer that such a setting was a hardware jumper or at least be independant from the OVP and OCP.

@falcidi 4 года назад

@@JerryWalker001 Great video and totally agree with you. It's so easy to be distracted by something at times that you a) accidentally press the wrong button or 2) change the mode for some specific reason and then forget to change it back to the default. I get it people say it's an option and not set as default but it's still one that people need to be aware of. Thanks for raising this setting/option and sacrificing your transistor for the benefit of all lol :)

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Ausmosis, Finally someone that understands my point, Thankyou. The transistor was not happy anyway ;)

@Bonjour-World 4 года назад

Magic Battery Mode: If one goes through the Riden blog looking at the comments and questions for this unit one of the common responses is "Please use battery charge plug. There are special features". They do not enlighten us as to what those features are. There is also a blurp about "Battery with protection board may not be charged". What we do know is: 1) the unit has an internal relay wired between the positive and the charge plugs 2) the external temperature plug is 'intended' to be used for battery charging (youtbe irTbqfqtgU0) 3) the type of battery chemistry can be set in the menu system 4) the unit detects when a battery is connected to the negative plug (how ... capacitance ?) 5) The user is requested to set preset the charging voltage and current 6) Per the manual, charging shuts down when output drops to less than 10ma (triggers the relay ???) .. This begs the questions: 1) what are those 'special features' ??? 2) at what temperature does the charge port shut off ? (or does it shut off) 3) does the charge mode actually use the user preset or does it default to a profile based on the chemistry? 4) if the user sets the charge voltage and current parameters then what is the point of the setting the battery chemistry? .. Without those answers I am inclined to use the standard positive port rather than the 'charge port' for my expensive 14S lithium battery. It would also have been helpful if they had included an external port to plug in the provided sensor. It is very unlikely that the user will install ones battery pack inside the power supply case to charge it (except in a dedicated use scenario). So how about "Part5, Battery Charging" ????

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Yes I agree with everything you have said. If I made a video about using this unit for battery charging then it would only be to say, 'do not use this unit for battery charging'. It does not (as far as I can see) have any delta V cutoff and if a battery fails to rise then there is no timer or capacity cutoff. There is also no balance control (although this could of course be done externally). In short a cheap battery charger would be far better even if the Riden is then used as the power source. However if I get a few requets to show this function then I will post another video.

@Bonjour-World 4 года назад

@@JerryWalker001 The problem I have with "cheap battery charger(s)" with a single red/green LED is that when they do not work (I am now on my second ... third) all you can tell about them is that they do not work .... and that is only after they fail to charge the battery. There is no indication if the problem is the BMS or the 'smart' charger. I also have an very expensive LunaCycle charger that does not work. The only thing I can tell about it is that it does not work. It is NOT also intended to be user serviceable (a major component seems to be RTV). So I have ordered a RD6006 (via slow boat from china ... oops) and will in future always use a charge meter (volts, amps, watts, wh) in line between the battery and the charger/power supply.

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

I fly electric helicopters and so I have a number of battery chargers (including some cheap ones). I think that battery chargers (like everything else) vary in performance and reliability. However they should at the very least have the basic required functions (temp limit, capacity limit, timer limit, Adjustable Delta V detection, cell balancing etc). The Riden does not which is why I would not use it as a charger. I cannot argue against using monitoring devices when charging although having to sit and watch them would be a pain. Even a cheap, reasonable quality charger would be (in my opinion) preferable to the Riden for this purpose. I would much rather they had used the relay to disconnect the output when the supply output is turned off. I currently use an EOS720i Dual charger and feed it from one of the Ridens but I also have much cheaper chargers that work very well. I would add that by cheap charger I mean something like www.sparkfun.com/products/10473 and Not one with just an LED.

@Bonjour-World 4 года назад

@@JerryWalker001 FYI: the link blows up. I actually have one of those somewhere. With the LiPo packs you have the advantage that you can access the individual cells via the balance leads. Many of the chargers/balancers give you some feedback. With E-Bike batteries the cells are most often literally 'welded' together and hard cased (or worse yet, shrink wrapped or both). There can be (most often are) ballance leads to the cells in parallel groups. Ebike chargers rarely give any feedback other than the red/green LED (the exception being the $300+ CYCLE SATIATOR). Balancing is most often left the BMS via passive mode (and zero feedback). Anything else requires disassembling the battery pack and removing the BMS. Then one can go through to test/charge/discharge each cell group. Ultimately one needs to have something capable of pumping out the full charge voltage (58 volts for 14S LicoMnNiO or 16S LiFePo4) which is why I decided to get the RD6006. It can also be used for my 36 volt pack(s) or as a handy bench supply although WAY overkill for my other needs. Cheers :-)

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

I think we are talking about entirely different types of packs. For EV cells there are specific chargers. For the types of packs I am talking about there are balance leads going to external plugs but the charger still needs the ability to make use of them. EV packs normally have built in BMS and so are handled differently. I was refering to cell packs rather than specific EV units. The Riden should be fine for EV packs as they generally manage their own charging and balancing internally but this depends on the particular pack. For all my electric bikes and Quad I use the chargers that were supplied with them. For the electric heli's I use the more controllable chargers.

@Bonjour-World 4 года назад

Great review series. Thank thee.

@RoaldKoger 4 года назад

You've got a point, but that's why it's optional and turned off by default.

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Correct but as I was giving a review and the options are not well indicated I wanted to make it clear what these options were and also that I think it is a bad idea to have the supply turn on its output when a memory is selected wiithout being able to see what is about to be applied to the outputs. If the supply is only used by one person then it may not be quite as bad but in particular when different people can use supplies then this option becomes dangerous. I see no real need for it and the dangers outweigh any possible benifit. That is of course just my opinion and is simply advice which anyone can ignore if they want. I did also make it clear that it is an option and turned off by default. To clarify my point, This feature will prevent these supplies from being used in my companies development lab.

@techdoctor9982 4 года назад

@@JerryWalker001 Just because you don't see a need for it doesn't mean everyone else doesn't, others may prefer it for cycling between preset voltages and current outputs for testing purposes or even for charging batteries etc... , for them it would reduce the input required, Granted it's poorly labelled in the menus but it is by default set in a safe setting as you said. You would need to explicitly set it to what you describe as an unsafe setting for it to be a problem. No doubt there would be a way of disabling it altogether in firmware (or possible the pc software ?) - I'm waiting on the kit to build one myself so if I make any progress with firmware coding I will update you accordingly.

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

As I said in my video that is just my opinion. My point is that it has been implemented in such a way that it can represent a danger and I also indicated specific cases when this can happen. I also suggested a way that this could be implemented in such as way as to make it a safer option to use. For example if the OVP and OCP were global then this would make it safer to use. As it is the supply can very easily be put into a dangerous mode and that is why I mentioned this in my video and I stand by my comment. I am not sure why the software or firmware modifications are relevant.

@techdoctor9982 4 года назад

@@JerryWalker001 the software and firmware modifications could be done such as to prevent the "dangerous" implementations you stated in your videos. Why else would I mention them?

@techdoctor9982 4 года назад

who knows - if i can get it working correctly i could see if the manufacturer wanted to implement it (although i doubt it).

@01Hudesohn 4 года назад

Nice seen all Parts and Information thx for Function demo.. Thing want to bay...

@Nandox7 4 года назад

There's a new FW out that fixes the memory issue. It shows a popup showing the memory values and asking to apply, it also does not enable output automatically. Even if you swap memory with output on.

@mikewillis1592 3 года назад

Maybe the option is needed for production testing applications when to specifically want to cycle through memory settings. Agree it is dangerous.

@davidg4975 4 года назад

I like this feature. It is optional and versatile for applications where instant voltage change is water . is R&D

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

This does not change the fact that it leaves the supply in a potentially unsafe mode, which was the point of my comment (and why these supplies are banned from my development lab). They are only optional in the sense that they can be turned off but they can also be turned back on by other users. It does not save any key presses as the voltage can be changed directly with the same number of presses. My real point is that this feature over rides the OVP and OCP settings and this makes those settings pointless. If the OVP and OCP were global then I think it would be much better.

@bjtaudio 4 года назад

I want to make up a small lab supply, and I was thinking a adjustable clamp with a led when activated. So it clamps, the output the activates a relay to disconnect the power supply output. How it would work is a power transistor lots of gain and a adjustable voltage divider, to set adjust power supply to max voltage allowed then set clamp pot so it activates, then back off supply a bit...then if power supply fails output is instantly clamped and relay then 10msec later cuts output to clamp to stop overheating and output. clamp remains connected via a small power resistor so it clamp can be adjusted regardless of if relay activates or not.

@timlong7289 4 года назад

I saw the discussion in the previous video and thought you had made a mistake, but now I see you do have a point, albeit (I think) with a slightly overstated severity . The "Chinglish" menus are a bit bad. Beyond that though, the defaults are safe and someone smart enough to build and operate a power supply of this kind is surely capable of taking responsibility for changing some settings away from the defaults and understanding the consequences of their actions. One can imagine situations where quickly changing between preset supply voltages without turning the output off is desirable (e.g. running through a set of voltage related tests). So yes you do have a point, if the operator sets the options to a risky setting then they've increased their risk - but that's why it's an option, right? I think the option has value and if you don't like the option, don't turn it on. I don't really see any issue with that.

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

Like you I have a right to an opinion and in my opinion the danger of this option far outweighs the benefit. I clearly offer methods where this option could be included in a safer way. As far as 'overstating' the danger I have run my own company for over 30 years and this sort of option on equipment has cost me a great deal of money over the years. I give clear indications of this in the video. I am simply offering advice and anyone can take it or leave it but it is my opinion and I stand by what I have said and how this option could be improved. It is easy to say its not a problem until the day you fall foul of it but as I said this is my opinion and I fail to understand the continued argumants that it presents no danger. I reviewed the product and pointed out this to help others.

@Bata.andrei 4 года назад

I have a supply like that and I noticed it has another annoying feature. My workbench has a main switch, and whenever I power the bench on, the power supply boots up and switches on. I would really like that it remained off, but unfortunately it does not have an option in the menu for that. It's the same thing with my Kkmoon fy6900 function generator, wich, by the look of it has a similar firmware, or at least seems to be made by the same team...

@JerryWalker001 4 года назад

That is an option on this supply but I have turned it off.

@xmenken1 4 года назад

@Andrei Bata ， KKmoon FY6900 has a main switch at the back. So that you can turn it off to avoid the issue?

@xmenken1 4 года назад

Always make sure the voltage is correct before you connect your precious device.

@Bata.andrei 4 года назад

@@xmenken1 yes, it does, the power supply has one too, but the way they are placed on the bench makes it difficult to reach all the way in the back. Besides, i think it's just bad design to have your device boot to default power on...