Chaos is a Ladder... but to where? ASOIAF Theory Analysis (Part V) 

Remember to leave those Q&A questions below!

"I'm a bit confused" -GRRM on seeing Season 7

Also A. love the idea of Littlefinger's all-girl death squad and B. Harrenhal makes SO much sense to me because although the Slynts had like a four second interlude, it used to be House Whent's AKA Cat and her bloodline arguably have a claim to it? Honestly just the thought of this alone is sending me off on a bunch of different thought tangents because I think all of the Whents by name are gone, Cat "died" like claimants of Harrenhal always do, Arya's becoming some weird master of death and has so much death-related trauma in the Riverlands, and the whole notion of Cat "reclaiming" Harrenhal for her family or even for Arya specifically makes so much thematic sense to me and I'm going to have to dig into this more.

4:29 this moment is cathartic. I don’t care what anyone says.

I like the idea of this trial. I Believe that Jane Pool and Aria will be more linked as the story progresses. Jane will arrive at the wall with Tycho Nestoris and find Jon dead. I think that she will go to Bravos in her broken state and end up taking her life at the house of black and white. Aria will then return to Westeros as Jane Pool as Aria Stark. Through Jane’s face She would carry the memory of the trauma of Jane’s death, namely her abuse at the hands of Little Finger. This is not my theory I heard it somewhere but I think it could fit with your theory.

LOL god bless the late night West coast posting.

this video series has given me a whole new perspective on Littlefiinger as a character, and I think he’s one of my favourites now. Killing Hoster with abortion drugs is wonderful poetic justice if it’s true. And such a great find! On my re-reads what I noticed was that Lysa and Catelyn both say “they always knew [petyr] would rise high.” I think this means his ambition for status came before wanting revenge, though that’s a really subtle difference. I don’t think his sole motivation is revenge still… Mainly because, from a meta perspective, two of the characters intertwined with his personal grievances (catleyn who is the whole reason this started, and edmure who gave him his nickname) he has nothing to do with dying/bad things happening to them. From a storytelling perspective, with a revenge driven character you want them to take out the people he has the most connections to. Which would definitely be Catelyn, if not Edmure. And also like people have mentioned it means his conflict is kinda already resolved. Though I agree with you that “getting away with it” also counts as a motivation. Though the distinction is a bit thin, I think his motivation doesn’t fall under “Revenge” and more so “rewriting history”. Not wanting to get even on personal grievances, but more get even with his past. He lost the girl because he was a baseborn nobody, but now? He’s one of the most powerful people in the country, he kills Lysa, a person he probably hates, and has the girl! (just Sansa Stark now.) And has her playing out a farce where he’s her family/(probably) soon to be wife. Something really small I noticed that I think makes an interesting parallel is when Lysa slept with Petyr. It was pretty much rape but Petyr remembers it as Catelyn doing it. Maybe I’m missing something (probably lol) but this confused me, at first. Lysa was in love with Petyr, surely she would mention having sex with him later on - unless she was pretending to be cat herself. But then again, Littlefinger is in love with Catelyn. Would he really not mention this to Catelyn when trying to convince her to marry him? I struggle to believe that he kept on thinking it was Catelyn for years, after knowing she didn’t love him. But what if Littlefinger did kind of already know it was Lysa? Just convinced himself it was Catelyn because it was easier to think of it that way. Because that creates a really interesting parallel with Sansa. In the Alayne chapters she has the “unkiss” with the hound, where she remembers him threatening her as him kissing her. We don’t know why the “unkiss” was added, but Martin said it was for a reason - this could be one. Anyway I love your theories, thanks for reading this nonsense if you did lol. Can’t wait for your next video!

To add to this, I kinda thought that officially (like, in terms of what the westerosi history books will say) Jeyne Poole would remain Arya forever. Reuniting with Jeyne would be the final straw to turn Sansa against Littlefinger, and though the real Arya might reunite with her surviving family and stuff, she won't retake her place as a highborn lady. Sansa and Jeyne will rule the North(?) as sisters and BFFs.

Not sure I like the idea of a Bran deus-ex-machina moment, as was done in the show... it would be better if Sansa could legit outsmart LF non-magically, like 'the student defeats the master' kinda thing, though not sure if that could be pulled off convincingly... the way the show handled is was AWFUL; is completely cheapened the years of careful clever scheming from Littlefinger to have it unravel all at once. Do you think in the books, it will be played as "all of LF's brains and schemes can't defeat Bran's magic", or "coldhearted LF working alone can't understand the Stark family love and can't defeat Stark teamwork", or "yeah, LF is smarter, but might-makes-right and Sansa has the bigger sword", or "LF was prepared for everything... everything but a betrayal from his beloved Sansa", or "Sansa the student finally defeats the master"? Cuz none of these feel quite right to me...

Just rewatched the whole series this morning, SOOOOO GREAT even still well done!

Your theory about the weirwood trial in Riverrun makes sense, if the book cover for Winds of Winter that the artist of GRRM's latest book (The Rise of the Dragon) showed on his social media actually ends up being the Winds cover art. As it shows a weeping weirwood's eyes in the background and the most forward part is a Dragonglass Dagger with the visage of a Wolf reflecting in it. The most important part in that description to me, would be the weeping weirwoods in the background.

Sandor Clegane tells Sansa how Gregor Clegane killed him and how it was no accident. So Sansa knows HOW, but not the actual who or why. Just that Gregor is a bad dude and he killed him after noticing that his gorget is effed up. I THINK what MIGHT happen is that Sansa, remembering what Sandor told her and making NO connection to LF, will accidently save Harry when she fixes his armor. She is going to fix something off on his armor, and Harry is going to put it together when he knight he rides against goes STRAIGHT for what should have been a fatal weakness. Or Harry will die, and Sansa will notice the sabotage in his armor after and make a scene, accidently exposing LF and perhaps being backed by Mad Mouse Shad/Miranda Royce. Or that she is being set up by LF and that is why he has placed Miranda in a position to be resentful of Sansa. I just can't put it all together but SOMETHING is up with how this tourney is coming together with Sansa in the center of everything.

It's not often I am this hyped for a RU-vid video.

Q&A questions: 1) The idea of LF hiring Ser Gregor to kill Hugh and the raid the Riverlands is pretty sketchy as he is a big Lannister crony and could easily betray LF, considering Gregor doesn’t seem to be the smartest and doesn’t plan long term that much. Is it really that likely LF would’ve risked being outed just to kill Ser Hugh, when surely there were easier ways to do it. 2) How do you see Jeyne Poole getting to LF’s trial? All the other characters are nearby the Riverlands or seem to be heading there at some point, whereas Jeyne is in the North heading to the Wall and doesn’t seem to have any good reason to head south, especially considering she’s from a northern house. 3) Why do you think LF decided for a Stark/Lannister feud when he didn’t really care about either (wanting to screw over the Tullys more so). Surely he could’ve manipulated the Vale considering he’s from there, had massive control of Gulltown for a while and worked with Jon Arryn for a few years in Kingslanding, and any war that the Vale was in would have to go through the Riverlands.

How do you think Littlefinger will react upon seeing Lady Stoneheart? Catelyn is dead kinda indirectly through LF's actions (getting Ned executed, bringing in the Tyrells for the Blackwater, which made the Freys at Harrenhal think Robb was doomed)? Would he feel guilty/regretful about seeing the consequences of his actions on the woman he once loved, in the flesh? Would he be glad to see her dead, like "I got my younger, hotter Cat-clone here with Sansa", but then zombieCatelyn's existence is kinda saying "you can never bury your past. it will rise from the grave to haunt you."

Shella Whent: alive or dead? ADwD appendix lists her as disposed, the wiki says she's dead, but she's kinda a dropped plot at this point? She's obviously connected to Harrenhal; she would know secrets about the tourney at Harrenhal where Rhaegar crowned Lyanna; Yoren speaks favorably of her, so if he's a Varys crony, she might be as well (though the current castellan of Harrenhal, Bonifer Hasty, was appointed - at least according to Jaime's speculation - by Orton Merryweather, who is probably a Varys crony. So we could have 2 Varys cronies vyeing for control of Harrenhal?? Hasty loved Rhaella, and Dany presumably looks like Rhaella, so he might desert Aegon for Dany when she arrives in Westeros.) Could Shella be present for the all-girl death squad? I'm thinking how Sansa will react in seeing her zombie mom... I could see her kinda adopting Shella as a surrogate mother, maybe?

Some miscellaneous ASOIAF Q&A stuff - Are the Others pure evil (or like an allegory for some existential threat that people have to stop playing the game of thrones and band together to fight), or some other form of quasi-humanity, to be negotiated with? Will Marwyn (whose students Mirri and Qyburn seem very good at making zombies) turn Maester Aemon into a zombie? Who will ride/control Viserion and Rhaegal? (Quentyn assuming he's alive as there was maybe a body swap; Tyrion; Victarion; Euron; Young Griff; Arianne; zombieJonSnow; Aurane Waters; the Others; someone else?) Why does Doran keep putting his kids in danger? What's the political/ethical philosophy he's supposed to represent? Like, we get greed/selfish vibes from the Lannisters, and honor/righteous vengeance/putting your own life on the line to accomplish stuff from the Starks, and the Martells seem to care a lot about their smallfolk... how does it tie into Doran's Master Plan? Like, does he have the philosophy that he should risk people he cares about more than random smallfolk he's never seen, or risk both equally? karmic downfall incoming? Fate of Barristan Selmy? Die in the Battle of Fire (he is riding out on the front lines, wearing a helmet that limits his vision, with Skahaz and his crossbows DEFINITELY going to a coup so Barristan unexpectedly won't be able to retreat, and there's too many PoVs in Meereen, so at least someone probably has to die...), defect to Aegon (could be fun to see the dude who killed Maelys the Monstrous interact with the Golden Company), conduct negotiations between Aegon and Dany (elated that he actually didn't fail Rhaegar and his son completely, and because he sucks at negotiations and is dealing with Blackfyre supporters who hate his guts because of Maelys, he bungles everything badly, leading the Dance of Dragons 2.0)? Was Myrcella swapped for the Queenmaking chapter, and if so, how do you justify the logistics for that? (cuz the whole point of making Arys Oakheart's a PoV seems to be to prove that Myrcella is actually Myrcella during his 1 chapter... so do Myrcella and Rosamund look indistinguishable, so that Arianne legit couldn't tell them apart, despite how much everyone stresses that they're very distant cousins? Or were they swapped during the Queenmaking chapter?) Or else, NOW that her face is covered in bandages, a Myrcella-Rosamund swap is actually possible?

I do think Littlefinger has to meet his end in Harrenhall, but I do not see how Jeyne Poole could reach Sansa to that point. I do like the idea of him dying in the Vale falling from the moon door but we know is not possible as the Eyrie is close for the winter. Littlefinger dying in the riverlands is poetic justice.

Yes. The Shoe. I think it's one of the silliest theories, that a lone shoe will be some nail in the coffin. A shoe would be so lightweight that it would be thrown around in the wind, end up in some nook of the mountain's face and never be found or land thousands of feet from the body and get buried in snow. How could it possibly come back into the story?

Ilyn Payne could be an interesting addition to the trial. He probably knows about LF betraying Ned, and he is with Jaime.

My body is ready for the conclusion

It was worth the wait. It make sense and even exciting.

5:10 - Not even gonna clean that blade? Just gonna let the blood congeal in the sheath there? Cool, just checking.

Been mainlining ASOIAF theory videos all weekend. I also watched some videos from a dude named Quinn the GM and I believe that when combined with what you propose here you get a pretty good picture of what might well be the (or maybe one of the) climatic event(s) of TWOW. Let’s start with Jeyne, Jon, Rickon, and Davos. You mention Jeyne heading south, but as seen in the TWOW Theon stuff, she’s (currently) heading to The Wall to meet Jon. Now we all know Jon is gonna somehow come back to life and when he sees Jeyne he’s gonna know that that’s not Arya (something that could throw an interesting wrench into this is if he loses memories due to being resurrected). I suspect that Jon’s resurrection is going to cause a personality shift and goal reorientation for him. Most of his plot was about preparing for the Others until he read the Pink Letter, then it was “I gotta save Arya!” I’ve also long suspected Jon’s story would take him south, but not in the way the show did it. Instead, he will escort Jeyne Poole to the Riverlands to confront Littlefinger, possibly being joined by Rickon and Davos, who has abandoned Stannis’ cause following the burning of Shireen (also, once again, Jon having memory loss could lead to some interesting story beats if say, he forgets Rickon or something). And if you wanna get REALLY crazy with this “Jon goes south” stuff, then Greywater Keep is on the way to the Riverlands. Maybe they pop in and visit Howland Reed and he talks about the Tower Of Joy, revealing the net theory AND that R+L=J. (Net theory being most important of course) Now, (potential spoilers for the prologue of TWOW) Quinn the GM proposes that despite the efforts of Jeyne Westerling’s mother, she is carrying the baby of Robb Stark. And the prologue is the Brotherhood Without Banners attacking a host of Westerlings that are traveling back to their new holdings, slaughtering everyone until they come across Jeyne W giving birth. This would throw a BIG wrench in Littlefinger’s schemes because he’s been using Sansa as the key to the North, but oh! Here’s Robb Stark’s child and widow, oops I guess. Everything you’ve said about Jaime, Brienne, and Arya’s involvement happens as you. Together everyone is able to piece together all the ways, big and small, that Littlefinger has screwed them over as well as upending a lot of his well laid plans. The only thing this doesn’t account for is the fact that, narratively speaking, we need to see Littlefinger and Varys move their pieces against each other, but maybe that’ll happen as everyone is converging on Littlefinger.

For QnA Favorite dinosaur?

"The showrunners got it right" REPORTED, EXPECT PERMA-BAN AND DE-ALGORITHIMIZATION WITHIN MOMENTS

Sandor Clegane was there when LF betrayed Ned, he could be that witness.... if he is alive. If he is, he should be now in the Quiet Isle or at the Vale, very close to help Sansa or Arya

I too am convinced Harold Hard-on is gonna end up a stiff. Any potential talk of marrying him to Sansa is by itself proof in my eyes, since we know Littlefinger's not going to turn loose of Sansa easily. As for him potentially crossing swords with Lyn Corbray, it really could just be as easy as a cocky newly made knight thinking himself up to the challenge. We know Corbray will jump at a fight at the slightest provocation, so it could be as simple as Harold Hardyng make an off-color remark after having a few cups of wine, and Corbray not letting it go. So long as he doesn't explicitly murder him it'll work, and even if Corbray gets shunned by the other lords after that's probably in the plan anyways. It's not like Corbray's the inheritor as it stands, and as Littlefinger said, he only likes gold, boys, and killing. That could also theoretically be how Littlefinger gets ejected from the Vale, as well. The Lords Declarant (rightfully or wrongly) might accuse Littlefinger of being behind Harold's death, they will seize Sweetrobin, and evict Littlefinger forcibly. I bet Nestor Royce's "fake" papers giving him the Gates of the Moon could backfire on LF in that it's proof that he's trying to buy off Vale lords, which just leaves him on shaky ground. He's not really going to have friends in King's Landing much longer so the Vale Lords are probably willing to take the risk. As for questions for the Q&A, I think my biggest one is , how do you think Ser Shadrich/The Mad Mouse is going to be at play here? I'm fond of the theory that he's Howland Reed in disguise (I know, I know) but even if he's not, he's clearly more than just a simple hedge knight out for a bounty. I'd really love to get your insights on that!

*Watching this video currently this year* 😎"Woah." - Neo (The Matrix)

It's said that you can't lie in front of a Weirwood Tree, and if you look back (in the books especially) you will never see anyone lying in front of one

Thank you for the theory, Lord RIG of the Tinfoil! Trials -Jamie fights seven of the Brotherhood for his own life in front of LSH? LF is judged by LSH, Jeyne Poole, Jeyne Westerling (?) Arya, Sansa, Brienne, others ???

Wow I’m on a roll getting here early

Go get the gibbets set up boys

IT IS HERE WOOOO

I would love to see this series go on. I will miss it 😢😢

Now this is Epic

The prophecy has been fullfilled

I can see the trial at Riverrun, not Harrenhall. Everyone you mention including the WOLVES are in the Riverlands. Much as I would LOVE to visit the Isle of Faces on any excuse whatsoever!

There’s that quote from the Ghost of High Heart in one of Arya’s earlier chapters in ASOS which alludes to Sansa “slaying a savage giant in a castle made of snow” or something akin to that. This is either only in reference to Sansa and Sweetrobin’s encounter in the Eyrie with the snow castle or that Sansa will kill Baelish in a castle (most likely winterfell) since his sigil is that of the titan. Whatever route Grrm goes down, it will be much better than the show. Petyr’s death was one of the worst in the series.

Enjoyed this. Felt in some of your earlier videos that you were at times guilty of over explaining at times, and as a result, feared that your conclusion might be overly complicated. So I'm glad you kept it simple in the end, and I'd probably describe this as your most mature video. I think you made good decisions in how you presented your initial points and in doing so won engagement early on. Content-wise, it's a little disappointing that your conclusion was so similar to the shows version of events. I honestly think that there's another video on Littlefinger in you. All in all, good video and you continue to develop well as a content creator.

Just three questions ; why would littlefinger not keep around a possible heir in case sweet Robin died, and wouldn’t sweeet Robin dying and Sansa’s potential control over harold ( ala arianne/Arys oakheart) be how she takes little finger down If Harry dies then who is sweet robin’s heir ; don’t we need to introduce another arryn decendant, meaning one more character, Also sweet Robin’s a sickly child why wouldn’t him dying be more of a fuckup for lf What of myranda , and the Royces… like the royces , corbray or the knight of nine stars could be considered heirs to winterfell for some reason Randa id scheming around sansa , and she said she wanted to marry corbray who in the short run won’t inherit anything but in the long run may have a shot at winterfell

"Green stuff.....green." Hahaha. Putting "green" in front of stuff does make it sound better.....

Fishnet Reed theory is based

For the Q&A, but feel free to answer in the comments. I indeed do watch the Interesting Nerd Club and enjoy your appearances on it. On that note I'm slightly disappointed you didn't go into exactly who would be at this trial for Littlefinger or exactly why he'd be the one on trial as much as was hashed out on the podcast. I'm still not 100% certain on who would need to be there and who could also be there and what the possibile implications of them being there would be. How the winds of winter is going to succeed at moving all these characters around and getting them where they need to be will be a challenge and I'd like to hear your thoughts on what would happen to get Jamie, Breann, Catylin, Sansa, Jane Poolo, the Black Fish, Arya, some of the dudes from Neds household guard, Harry the Heir? Some knights from the Vale? Jane Westerly? There's too many characters to keep track of and I haven't read Dance in years.

I can’t remember from earlier parts; do you speculate on Littlefingers collection of Baratheon tapestries and what part they play in his plan?

Heschie reference but this is a certified hit fr

Rip ser hugh

Lady stonefart

Ok here are some things that came to my mind: Could Littlefinger demand a trial by combat? The starks belive in the old gods but he should "belive" in the fate of the Seven, right? But then who whould fight for him? Does his arc really have to end with him getting killed, ist there a chance that he is successful in his scemes? Also he is still the Lord of Harrenhal, could his eventual dead be realted to the curse on the casle?

❤

I think bran will skin change into little finger and confess everything, and we'll be left much where the show left us, with some semblance of justice based on knowing it's all true, but not feeling great about how it played out

Well I don't subscribe to the little finger being a human eldritch horror/ faceless assassin...and he can't just keep getting away with it. And I can't lie, tricking little finger into showing up to his own trial would be funny. And it would be poetic for him to be out played by Sansa

Brief comment and then a question. Jeyne is on her way with Tycho to Castle Black. She has no reason to end up in the Riverlands. Your theory and trial leave out the POV character LF has screwed over the most: Tyrion. He's successfully framed Tyrion for murder twice! Does Tyrion play no role in his downfall?

How do you think Jeyne Poole will come in contact with Sansa again?

Li’l Finger is the best rapper in Westeros.

I agree with you about the show. D&D just messed up the pacing of the story but I do believe they got all of the main plot points correct. If they had a little sense they would have hired writers to complete those points in a better way. No un-sub from me. Your channel is doing great

12:52 i just don't see Stoneheart finding Jaime innocent. She's not like Beric, who honored the outcome of stupid trials-by-combat. She is the Brotherhood descended into unthinking vengeance. If she had the chance to save one of her daughters, or get vengeance on someone from the Red Wedding, I think she would opt for vengeance? (i think she might get presented with that choice, just to show how much no-longer-Catelyn she is) I'm also not sure it works for Jaime's arc to have a trial, especially if its a trial-by-combat. Jaime's arc has a lot of using free will, and defying normal cultural conventions of how you're supposed to do stuff in this world, such as enduring the terrible Westerosi judicial system. Also Jaime surviving a trial seems a little too wish-fulfillment-y? Apart from Tyrion in the Vale, trials tend to go against what the reader is rooting for (Hound v. Beric; Gregor v. Oberyn), or involve terrible collateral damage (death of Baelor Breakspear), or almost feel like side-attractions - (Longinch v. Dunk ends with Dunk nearly drowned, and it kinda feels like he got drowned for nothing cuz Webber and Osgrey resolved their dispute off-screen, and the melancholy over Dunk and Rohanne's now-unfulfillable chemistry kinda feels more significant than the trial or the longinch? Glendon Ball v. Daemon Blackfyre II is almost completely pointless plot-wise as Bloodraven's army shows up; it just serves to put Glendon's heart in conflict with itself, and resolve the bribed-to-lose jousting plot). So I guess either Jaime doesn't have a trial, or he loses his trial, or he wins but there's terrible collateral, or he wins but the plot isn't really about the trial? idk. Thoughts?

Wait a sec, if Harry the Heir is done in by a tourney "accident" BEFORE HE MARRIES/IMPREGNATES SANSA, doesn't that mean LF loses that round? I think he wants Harry alive until he fathers Sansa's kid, of course I also think he and Sansa will want LF dead pretty soon, like after he kills Robin.

I’m curious, how much of Game of Thrones have you seen? Personally, I wish I could forget seasons 6-8 and half of season 5.

You do weigh the same as a duck....therefore 😂😂😂

Like how in the books little finger is kinda described as a skinny jack black, with a chin goatee, and shoulder langth hair, and a soft face. And the show has a stereotypical weasal playing him.

I’ve separated the show from the books by season 5, and honestly I loved the trial and execution of littlefinger in season 7. It’s so good. Sansa’s “lord Baelish” gets me every time.

Poor harry

I think you said you dont follow Pretson Jacob's fan project- but his take on Sansa's chapter might very possibly lead to a trial in Riverun.. and honestly I like this direction. Well.. not a question.. but it is a comment

You said a few times you never saw the episode where LF died. Did you ... not watch the show?

Ok random internet guy but where is Tyrek Lannister!!

Petyr would not have gone out like that. He was two steps ahead of everybody and probably the smartest guy in westeros. I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have been outwitted those two amateurs.

:0

Who’s Brian?

Throws me off every time you pronounce Brienne like that 😅

Season 7 they had no proof other then just acusation it sucked so must!

Sees this video and you mentioning a video about hugh of the vale... No ser, i havent seen that and your a liar! Checks chronological order of videos and forgot i clicked on the next 'suggested' one right after another....huh...you win this round, random internet guy?! Shakes fist at the cloud of the internet

what a shit show those last seasons of GOT