I won't upgrade until quality improves. As of right now I won't buy anything RV. I also convince friends and family don't buy. Industry don't care. Industry don't support their customers. Note. I own a 2022 build date bumper pull RV.
Thank you for the honesty and a pretty accurate update on the RV market. Hedge funds and private investors have bought campgrounds and doubled prices. Also, everyone is dumping models made in the last 4 to 5 years because the craftsmanship is absolute crap. I love the outdoors and camping but right now is a great time to travel on cruises and enjoy hotel stays. Thank goodness I kept my really nice tent with my incredible blowup mattress also! 😀
We have been holding off buying because we have heard so many horror stories (via social media) of poor quality construction and the impossible wait times for repairs. We have also heard of long wait lists for campgrounds and higher fees.
We bought 3 months ago used off FB marketplace & it’s been amazing. Sure we had to make a couple repairs but the RV has been great. Finding super cool & affordable locations in Tx has been easy too. We will run out of Summer days before we can finish our “must see local list”
@@Thepinkenvelope When we started looking at RVs in 2018 we planned to buy new. I don't know that we would any more just due to the stories we have heard, especially regarding the lack of support from dealerships.
I did hear one prominent RV manufacturer talk about quality lately, yet I am not fully confident that the message about quality has gotten through. I think continuing slow sales may do the trick if the downturn is interpreted correctly. Hopefully they will get the message.
Great report John !! I knew the newbies/ pandemic buyers would bail out . I see for sale signs in plenty in the storage yards. This economy has huge effects on the high end market! Thanks for the update and views! 😁👍
I think the first step is putting in place the ability for a dealership to reject a unit because it isn't ready for sale. If it is crap out of the door from the factory, the factory need to get it back. That QA stamp has got to have some meaning.
This does happen sometimes. If a unit or batch is defective because of a production issue they manufacturer will take them back. After the dealership fights them of course.
I just took a 3,200-mile trip and the campgrounds were in terrible shape. The bathrooms were extremely dirty, and the cost of a night stay was crazy. I spent a few nights staying at rest stops. All I can say is the RV world is in big trouble. Thanks, John, for your excellent analysis.
Thanks for sharing your recent experience. I too was a bit surprised by camping fees this past spring. Seems like prices on lower quality overnight campsites stays went up considerably. Thanks again for sharing!
Thanks for your views on your trip . I’ve been camping for over 60 years. Then again never stayed in a RV park . I’ve never paid over 20.00 a night . Go to SP, COE , or .gov or boon docking. I guess it’s different camping! 😁👍
I’m in Texas & it’s quite the opposite. We have been so impressed with the boujee & fun parks we keep finding. We just went from South TX to Arkansas & there were so many amazing options.
You are not looking at the real offerings in campgrounds. Just got back from a month of camping at Core of Engineers campgrounds, beautiful, maintained, and (with America the Beautiful pass), well under $20/night. Commercial campgrounds are expensive and many have tiny spaces but there are MANY alternatives.
Excellent summary report. Thanks. The high end market is kinda like when we bought our 2004 Airstream 30’ classic. In July 2003, we got 28% off MSRP, even as a customized order. Our Airstream’s quality was terrible then, and Thor did not stand behind the trailer’s warranty. Seems today is the same. We are so glad we got into the molded fiberglass trailer. At 5 years and more than 100,000 miles, our Canadian-made Escape Trailer has had only one warranty issue - a defective Dexter axle.
I almost gave up on buying an RV last year due to the number of people complaining about the poor quality, underhanded dealer tactics, and high prices. After researching RVs for a while, I bought a 2024 RPod 196. Got a great deal, and no problems at all. The main issue that most buyers fail to understand, is that you have to be in control of the process, not the dealer. I made it very clear, more than once, that if I found one thing wrong with the RV I will walk away from the deal. Never sign anything until you get up on the roof, inside, and underneath. Run the AC, heat, refrigerator, etc. We are having a great time camping since my purchase last fall, and will not be trading it in until the manufacturers clean up their act.
Its better to buy from an RV show. The prices are much better! Additionally, I would not buy an RV without an independent inspector on any and ALL RV's!
Good report. In 3 trips since before Memorial Day weekend, I've seen at least a dozen rv dealers throughout Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania with trailers stacked on their lots. Also passed the drv and cruiser rv manufacturer lot in Indiana, with piles of Unlettered units outside... so even if production numbers seem upward, I highly doubt if barely anything is being sold. This will crash and burn much worse than 2008 because they're making rv's as if everyone in the US should be buying a new one every other year like the auto industry does. My 2007 Arctic Fox Truck Camper is built like a tank and in good shape. Zero Lippert components as well on that year coach as it was built the year before the Happijac acquisition. Hopefully, new buyers get smart and refrain from buying anything newer than 2018... there's a lot of nice used units that pop up on the market.
Thanks for sharing your recent experience. I saw the same in regard to RV dealerships while doing some longs trips lately. Your truck camper sounds solid. All the best!
We are actively planning for full-time RV life. Our current travel trailer at 21' is too small for the long-term. I am frustrated and disillusioned by the poor quality that I am seeing and hearing from the experiences that other rv owners are having. I agree, a salary vs per piece work would improve quality if given the correct corporate culture. That culture only exists in several independent (privately owned) companies. That narrows down my list considerably. We will stick with our current travel trailer for the foreseeable future. Keep up the good work!
I own a small RV manufacturing company. I see that everyone says that the poor quality of RVs is because the workers follow the piecework, which leads to poor quality. I disagree with this view. In my opinion, the real reason for the poor quality of RVs is the supply chain. RV manufacturing factories are actually doing assembly work. We purchase various parts from various companies and then piece them together into a car. Because the parts are not produced by the RV factory, there are too many parts required to make an RV. No company can produce all the parts by itself.
I feel pricing is a HUGE factor. Let's take Newmar. When Newmar was a privately held company, you got a fairly high-end quality product for a decent price. I have owned 2 Country Coaches and 3 Monaco products over the past 20 years, and before their demise, Newmar was like the 'Audi' of the luxury RV industry. They were good, but people preferred Monaco or Country Coach. When they failed, Newmar stepped in and became the mass-production luxury unit manufacturer for the entire industry with Entegra a step or two behind. With that said, in 2020, a 4018 Dutch Star had an MSRP of 450k. That same model for 2025, has an MSRP of nearly 700k. That is 250k more for a unit that looks the same, has a few tech upgrades over 2020, and is not considered a luxury unit in the Newmar Lineup. In 2020, the King Aire was 995k, now is 1.7-1.8m. Major upgrades since 2020, but not double the price for a mass-production unit. Same with Fleetwood. A Discovery LXE was under 450k MSRP, now is 650k MSRP - looks the same, same engine, same everything, just more money. GREED is driving the market and people SHOULD be fed up with it. Hopefully, that is what is driving down sales. These are depreciating assets. That 1.7m King Aire loses 55% of its value in 2 years. There are several 2022 King Aires on the market for 800-900k, and that is the retail price, so you know it will go for less. RIDICULOUS PRICING needs to change.
We have been saving for six years and planning on retirement to buy a trailer for vacations, not full time life. I have been seeing all the info on socials about poor quality. I have been in and out of dealerships for the past several years and have found that salespeople don't know anything about the products except colors. I have a big trip planned for summer 2025. Maybe we'll rent rather than buy. THANKS FOR YOUR CHANNEL.
We want a diesel Class C to replace our 25' 2021 trailer. That covid production unit has had a $4k, 17 item mod/repair list done. But, now I'm hard-pressed to go from serviceable unit to one that may fall apart around me. Maybe I'll shop again this winter after I take a financial beating when selling the camper and truck in the fall.
Your experience seems like a common problem just now for those of us who have a trailer and may want to upgrade. There is risk in keeping what we have in terms of maintenance and risk when considering upgrading. Have you considered a quality used Class C from a private owner who has done good maintenance?
This is right where I am at. I'd like to upgrade from a 2017 but man hearing the horror stories of slide failure, countertops peeling off, and bad plumbing in BRAND NEW 5th wheels and TTs is just keeping me away from buying a nice new bigger 5th wheel that I want real bad. I've even gone into dealerships shopping and they tell me things like "I don't know what kind of slide this is but all slide out systems are the same, they're all good" when it's obviously a schwin and schwintek failures from 2021-2025 models have flooded the forums from every manufacturer with no fix in sight! Just a quick trip to the BBB will reinforce how poorly the warranties are serviced and how much trouble new owners are having. They've either got to dramatically reduce prices or increase build quality plus back it up with a longer warranty + better warranty servicing. The value exchange just isn't there and people like me are happy to wait until it is.
I have 1971 MCI 7 Challenger with DD 8/71 engine , no matinance in last 10 years i drive for 4 hours after i purchase whitout any problem , all mechanical no computer's and so on , absolutely bulletproof bus , stainless steel everywhere and aluminum add to esthetic wherever i go people want to take photos with old Greyhound bus ,quality is on next level !
I have a 2017 Grand Design 5th wheel. This unit is so much better built than the new ones. we have heard horrible stories of cabinets falling off the walls. I am actually looking to down size and thinking of buying a used 25' Airstream. We shall see.
I purchased a Ford Transit 350 High Top conversion by a major manufacturer. Overall, because I selected the Ford Chassis over the others I was very lucky. Servicing by Ford dealers throughout the USA is a breeze over the competition. The Ford Transit 350 is an excellent vehicle on its own and will be available including parts for many years to come. As far as the conversion, overall it is good but as with most Rv's there is always some minor easily fixable details. If buying a class B I highly recommend the Ford Transit 350 chassis.
Hi John. Thank you for the nice run down. I think your focus on worker issues is likely valid. I however, am looking to the top of the house ownership….private equity is squarely invested in the RV industry and that IMHO spells trouble for consumers. These guys have BOD seats and are forever cutting costs to make an ROI. I suggest that things won’t turn around until these groups leave the industry. It is my view that there will be lots of pain in the industry until this unwinding occurs. Again my opinion, your statistics show a real slow down. Things will likely get worse before they get better. My wife and I have an AS that we are happy with, considered an upgrade to a MH BUT THE QUALITY ACROSS LINES IS HORRIBLE. We will wait…..
In light of this, I'm curious on your take on Forest River who is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. Do you group them with private equity investors? Would they need to divest prior to things improving?
RV industry quality is a nightmare. I saw a late model 5th wheel heading back to town and began wondering how long the owner's things to do list was. No thanks!
New RV, no way!Buying a new RV offers the advantage of modern features, warranties, and the peace of mind that comes with being the first owner. However, purchasing a used RV is often more economical. Used RVs typically have a lower upfront cost, and they avoid the steep depreciation that occurs in the first few years of ownership. Additionally, many used RVs come with upgrades from previous owners, and any initial manufacturing issues are likely already addressed. Buying used can also provide a clearer picture of the RV's reliability and performance based on existing user reviews and maintenance records. Excellent video, thanks.
Unfortunately most new RV warranties aren't worth the paper they're written on. RV service centers are overwhelmed and there's an inevitable hot potato between the factory and the selling sealership.
There are some well maintained used units from private parties. If you go the route, consider using an independent RV inspector to look over any used unit you might consider. All the best!
From what I've absorbed about the RV 'Professional' corporations, 'something' to 'nothing' sounds like 'just deserts!" Consumers of ALL nonessential products and services (and even a few that would be difficult to give up on) MUST begin holding back their $s until they are once again appreciated!
Agreed, there is a general pull back in purchasing right now. My dealer who has been selling for several decades, mentioned that he see a 10% drop in sales every election year. This is on top of the quality problems being broadcast on social media about RVs. Lots of headwinds just now.
We would love to downsize but are afraid our 2001 has spoiled us knowing that the worst quality Manufacturer has bought up some otherwise reputable companies...IMO
I have got a US RV here in Norway. Have been said tha this is a highend brand and quality. It looks nice ouside and inside, but material as platic covered MDF used in Kitchen and bath is really wrong. No finer with real wood or laminate Cabinets, and some ultraleather of poor quality. This will peal of with something like sticky tape. They have used stapler on drawers. One fall together. Has rebuit almost all with real wood. Has to replace some shelves in bath, because of the MDF used here. Im an electrician and know about real craftsmen.
Inspect/make good RVs 🤷♂️ (I’m waiting to buy until there’s some regulation, or something showing me they’re not putting out $125k item that I’m going to have to fight for a year to get fixed, or lose money on.
So I upgraded. I took my 2017 and have fixed many of the design flaws that Thor built into my Palazzo. Thanks to brad and hall I no longer have furniture that is falling apart. Thanks to Lowe’s and Home Depot my fresh water and gray systems actually work. The RV manufactures need to seriously evaluate there business plans. The quality of production at best sucks. I put 4 lbs of welding wire into my slide when fixing water leaks caused by poor design and installation. In my slide I found o 22 welds in he structure only 1 was a full production weld. Of the remaining 21 spot welds 9 were completely cracked. In most instances there was no attempt made to actually fit pieces together, resulting in filling in “huge” gaps with weld. I don’t normally dry camp…had to on a recent trip to Canada. Found that Thor failed to install the check valve in the pump and connected everything using 4 foot MIP to MIP hoses. I can go on but I think you get my point.
Thanks for sharing your upgrades and experience. I think many people would like to do what you did if they had the skill, including the ability to see the issues like you have. Thanks again!
Dealers service departments that carry no parts or very few should offer customers use of Federal Express overnight if they can get the part[s] shipped faster from the factory. There is no reason why RV service centers can't get there factories to ship the parts within 2 business days anyway. The time it takes the RV Center to even order the part [2 to 5 days] then the factory takes weeks sometimes to ship UPS ground delays the ability to provide fast service and happy customers! This one change between the parties would pay off via social media and future sales!
The delay in getting parts is unacceptable. In the past, I’ve order the part from Amazon and brought it to my dealer to install. I do have an excellent small dealership I work with and I think this makes a huge difference.
When the alternator on my car fails I take it to my dealer and they replace it. I don’t have to deal with the alternator manufacturer. RVs should be the same. And no finger pointing between motorhome manufacturers and chassis manufacturer. In the small MH market I’m hearing issues with Ram, Mercedes and Ford dealers unwilling to fix MH chassis issues.
My main reason for keeping my virtually trouble free 2022 Rockwood Geo Pro is the quality that has gone downhill because of manufacturers like Thor. I wouldn’t take anything built by Thor if they gave it to me. As I age I will admit a class c peaks my interest but my common sense tells me not to buy trouble.
In my case I will not upgrade because I am concerning about quality. I bought a new 2022 StarCraft 281 BH with lots of problems. After 2 years I regret to have that decision and not to do again.
With our 2012 Honda Pilot we tow a 3,000 pound (empty weight) 2007 21 foot travel trailer with a dual axle, no slides, full real queen-size bed, dry bath with vanity, deep, dual sink, and sufficient head room for me at 6’1” to stand upright. We have replaced many parts and left other accessories (audio and video) non-functional, and keep rolling. (We have about 360 nights in the seven years we have owned it.) Had I been able to find a unit with all those aforementioned features and a reasonable price, I would have probably bought it. Now as we approach our late 70’s we will likely just keep making repairs as long as there is nothing catastrophically wrong. If anyone knows of a successor trailer worthy of the price, I am open to suggestions.
I would love to buy a new or use Motorhome but reviews that describe poor quality, flimsy workman ship, poor milage and repair rip off and delays by dealers shops , mechanics etc has just turned me off.
RV’s still way overpriced for poor quality products. Pay attention consumers some law firms are breaking the vails of RV manufacturers… class action suits coming. That says enough about the industry.
What are the top three brands you’d choose for a camper trailer? I have a wife 1 and 2 year old and need something that stays nice and cool in Texas summers. I’ll be subbing and liking because I’m a newb and just now doing research. Thanks in advance for any advice
Thanks. I have the new half ton 3.0 diesel sierra. I’m hearing it’s kinda unsafe to pull too long of a travel trailer. Have you guys heard of any of these brands being easier to tow than others? I’m looking into better suspension and airbags to help with that bouncy ride. I like the MPG and it’s my daily driver so I definitely don’t want a 3/4 or 1 ton
It’s more about tongue weight than length. Take a look at this video to gain some understanding: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8rBDeX-dSkY.htmlsi=C2C--HWvkvKJdoT2
There are many reasons in my opinion. #1: Overpriced low quality offerings with terrible construction soundness. I have a top brand 2024 unit and my slide is being rebuilt as I write this. #2: Overpriced and congested parks. Almost impossible to schedule highly desirable locations. At this point I personally just focus on easy to schedule KOA parks and expect a mediocre experience overall. RV'ing just isn't what it was. In terms of the market: I also think Airstream, while being amazing units are open to being undercut by someone who wants to build something better than all the trash offerings on the low end and the nose bleed pricing of Airstream. Something around 75K competing with a 27ft Flying Cloud @130K for example.
Thanks for sharing your very well articulated list of issues. It wasn’t that long ago (pre-pandemic)a new 25ft Airstream Flying Cloud was selling at $68k discounted!
Its the trash factor, RV industry is putting out overpriced trash, with no accountability. It's not a perception, Its fact. There are far too many stories of subpar units and these manufacturers not standing by their products, Not to mention, the greed across the board has gotten out of hand and people are getting over it and choosing more wisely how they spend their money and who they are going to spend it with, I would rather pay for quality as long as it's far with a company that will stand behind their unit, and it seems that it is few and far between these days, Manufacturers better start realizing we can live without them, they cannot survive without the consumer.
