RWF#24 - Breathe your Last + Darkest Hour 

My full reaction was “it depends on timestamps” but I fucked up how timestamps work and came to the right conclusion anyway XD

that was my gut reaction too, but the characteristic defining thing makes a lot of sense.

Layers don't care about the type of the card with the ability. If the cards were on the same layer, timestamps would apply meaning that whatever entered last would apply second.

Yes because LoE has a characteristic changing ability and Kudo’s ability happens on the type changing layer and then continues through to power and toughness changing layer. Although I’m pretty sure the type changing part isn’t relevant unless you add a third card screwing things up.

They lose all other colors and become mono-black

All creatures become black, and aren't any other colors (or colorless). This is in contrast to something like Painter's Servant, which specifically mentions 'in addition to its other colors'.

Changeling

I think changeling might be the only other characteristic-defining ability that's a full-on keyword, but another really common CDA is creatures that define their own stats (and usually have an asterisk in the P/T box), like Tarmogoyf or Enigma Drake.

The criteria are: - The ability defines the color, type, power and/or toughness of the card it's printed on - It's printed on the card it affects (or was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or was acquired by the object it affects as a result of a copy effect) - It does not (directly) affect any objects other than the one that has the ability - It is not an ability that an object grants to itself - It is not conditional Burakos, Party Leader has a CDA. Its first ability affects its type, is printed on the card, does not affect objects other than Burakos, is not an ability it grants to itself and is not conditional. Grist, the Hunger Tide notably doesn't have a CDA because the effect that turns it into a creature is conditional. Interestingly, Caller of the Hunt DOES have a CDA. It fits all the criteria. However, when it's not on the battlefield (or if it got on the battlefield without being cast) there is no 'chosen creature type' so its power and toughness will be set to 0 by the effect. There's a few more weird cards like that.

@@Felixr2 This makes me wonder if there's some weird timestamp based scenario involving grist, since it is a "regular" static ability. Maybe some strange graveyard-hate card.

@@Mattwae My immediate thought would be the interaction between Grist and Maskwood Nexus, no clue how that plays out. EDIT: Just realized, there'd simply be a dependency and Grist will apply first, turning itself into a creature so it can be affected by Maskwood Nexus.

I can't think of anything that applies to in this question so I assume you mean for abilities in general. Abilities will always apply exclusively on the battlefield unless they say or imply otherwise. So for example, Open the Graves only applies while it is on the battlefield, but Bridge from Below only applies in your graveyard because that's what it says. You also have Bloodsoaked Champion whose raid ability only happens from the graveyard since by moving it from there to somewhere else, it implies it must be in your graveyard to use it.

You gain life for each of the colors of the creature or planeswalker. That has to be checked in play, because there is no creature in the graveyard (it's a creature card at that point).

@@brofst for that I think you just use the last known info since once it changes zones it becomes a different object. If it said "If a creature card is put into your graveyard this way you gain 1 life for each of it's colors" then it would count it from the graveyard.

@@seandun7083 I'm not asking about the general case. By the time Breath Your Last tries to make you gain life, the creature is in the graveyard. What allows this spell to see the characteristics of the creature on the battlefield? As far I could tell, the concept of "look back in time" only applies to triggered abilities.

@@NotYourAverageNothing it applies to spells as well. 608.2: If the object that's resolving is an instant spell, a sorcery spell, or an ability, its resolution may involve several steps. The steps described in rules 608.2a and 608.2b are followed first. The steps described in rules 608.2c-k are then followed as appropriate, in no specific order. The steps described in rule 608.2m and 608.2n are followed last. 608.2h: If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the current information of that object if it's in the public zone it was expected to be in; if it's no longer in that zone, or if the effect has moved it from a public zone to a hidden zone, the effect uses the object's last known information. See rule 113.7a. If an ability states that an object does something, it's the object as it exists-or as it most recently existed-that does it, not the ability.