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Salvation of Psychopaths and Sociopaths 

Orthodox Banter with Bojan
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2 апр 2019

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Комментарии : 78   
@ChrisLarsen64
@ChrisLarsen64 5 лет назад
I am orthodox and I am a clinical psychologist. I can't comment on their capacity for salvation. Beware of the brain scanning story. One thing to note is that socipathic traits are actually quite common among clergy of all deninations. in particular, it is especially common among person's with a fundamentalist mindset. But sociopathy is a spectrum phenomen on many successful entrepreneurs have sociopathic traits and they manage to channel their risk taking, anti-authority-tendencies in a socially productive direction. But in more extreme cases true repentence may be absent in their lives.
@BanterWithBojan
@BanterWithBojan 5 лет назад
Thank you so much for the answer!
@ChrisLarsen64
@ChrisLarsen64 5 лет назад
@@BanterWithBojan so the moral of the story is that fundamentalism is a red flag. In orthodoxy we have them and so do all the other Christian groups.
@prayunceasingly2029
@prayunceasingly2029 5 лет назад
David Wood who is the anti Islam guy on RU-vid is either psychopath or sociopath. It's in his conversion video. He mostly doesn't feel emotions.
@karenbartlett1307
@karenbartlett1307 5 лет назад
@@prayunceasingly2029 What sociopaths and psychopaths lack is empathy (feelings for others) to one degree or another, not necessarily emotions, imo, although they could have "stunted" emotions, as in the case of severe child abuse they may have endured. The "Iceman" is the example I'm thinking of.
@prayunceasingly2029
@prayunceasingly2029 5 лет назад
@@karenbartlett1307 What is imo
@kaybrown4010
@kaybrown4010 5 лет назад
With God, all things are possible.
@buchsm1
@buchsm1 4 года назад
Yes they can David Wood is one example. They have the capacity to recognize a moral code and distinguish between right and wrong. They won't experience regret as normal people do but can be influenced by God's grace to repent and be redeemed from prior wrongful behaviours.
@BanterWithBojan
@BanterWithBojan 4 года назад
Thank you, a great example!
@virginialopezrey6860
@virginialopezrey6860 5 лет назад
As I heard this interesting discussion, I was reminded of St. Ephraim's prayer, "... and grant me to see my own transgressions and not to judge my brother...."
@piedramultiaristas8573
@piedramultiaristas8573 3 года назад
On the other hand. 💊I'm sharing Acts 2:38 and oneness about Jesus
@carissstewart3211
@carissstewart3211 5 лет назад
The ranks of the saints include people who any rational society would consider to be a psycho. St. Olga for example. I imagine virtue would be a lot harder for such people, divorced from emotion, but certainly not impossible. On the other hand, many people out of an overabundance of compassion promote some truly evil things.
@seronymus
@seronymus 5 лет назад
Why was St. Olga psycho? Also I'm surprised no one mentioned Fools-for-Christ, most feigned insanity but some were genuinely mentally ill I think
@carissstewart3211
@carissstewart3211 5 лет назад
@@seronymus Prior to her conversion to Christianity, St. Olga of Kiev committed a small genocide against the Drevlians. It's a rather colorful story and I sincerely hope Bojan makes a video about her (not just because I am descended from her.)
@karenbartlett1307
@karenbartlett1307 5 лет назад
@@seronymus Insanity is a legal term. It means not being "in their right mind" enough to be responsible for a crime one committed. It's not necessarily the same as mental illness, which could take several forms.
@piedramultiaristas8573
@piedramultiaristas8573 3 года назад
On the other hand. 💊I'm sharing Acts 2:38 and oneness about Jesus
@carissstewart3211
@carissstewart3211 3 года назад
@@piedramultiaristas8573 No that's a non sequitur. If you're presenting Acts 2:38 as some kind of an argument against the saints, you're reading something into the verse that simply isn't there.
@jacobborregaard2356
@jacobborregaard2356 5 лет назад
Great! Thank you for the reply!
@BanterWithBojan
@BanterWithBojan 5 лет назад
Glad you liked it!
@susansuewwilliams
@susansuewwilliams 5 лет назад
As always very good thoughts to make one think and pray.
@houstonburnside8985
@houstonburnside8985 5 лет назад
They know not know what they do
@carissstewart3211
@carissstewart3211 5 лет назад
They do. They just don't feel bad about it.
@carltonpoindexter2034
@carltonpoindexter2034 5 лет назад
@@carissstewart3211 You are exactly right and I had one as a boss. The only word I could use about him is EVIL!
@emilylloyd1684
@emilylloyd1684 5 лет назад
I've thought about this myself. I assume this is one of these things God knows better than I. I don't want to place my feeble understanding of right and wrong upon a situation like this. Also as a social worker I want to head people who think sociopaths and psychopathic are the same thing. There is a difference between how 'well adjusted' they are and how well they can function day to day. Looking into anti-social personality disorder will give you more insight into this.
@piedramultiaristas8573
@piedramultiaristas8573 3 года назад
On the other hand. 💊I'm sharing Acts 2:38 and oneness about Jesus
@ayounglivelysoulinanoldtir3512
@ayounglivelysoulinanoldtir3512 4 года назад
i beleive that no one is beyond salvation. as for psychopathy, if you have it, wether you are a saint or a sinner depends on how you use it. psychopaths, because of their ruthlessness & lack of concience may become murderers or theives but, likewise because of their fearlessness & lack of emotional responses to things other people would find repulsive, can also do heroic jobs, such as firefighters, police officers, soldiers, or dirty jobs such as sewerage workers, refuse collectors, or cleaning out annimal wastes ay zoos, catteries, farms etc. they are naturaly tough & resillient, with high tollerance levels to pain, tiredness & discomfort, & can often carry on working when others cannot, such as when they have rhumatic pains, flu, etc. remember, we are all gods creations , & true psychopaths are born with the condition, so if god creates people with these charicteristics, he must have originaly intended them to serve some worthy or useful purpouse, perhaps to do things that normal, weaker, more sensitive folk cannot do. thus, they have a place & a role in gods creation. such as the woman who, even though she was apsychopath, used her toughness, resistace to pain , illness & discomfort, & ability to stay cool & unemotional in what ,for others, would be distressing situations, to do dirty, tireing work for her frail, often ill ,mother, to take care of her elderly pairents, to nurse them when they were dieing, & to financialy support & provide for her brother ,who went into depression & became dysfunctional after his mother's death. because she was a christian &, despite having no deep emotions or maternal instincts, knew she should use her natural abilities( she didden't ealise that she was psychopathic at the time, just that she was tougher & less emotional than most people), to do what she could to help her fammily. i am that woman i am a psychopath but i am not a monster!
@BanterWithBojan
@BanterWithBojan 4 года назад
Thank you for your testimony! It is very useful, and thank you for sharing your side of the stroy. :-=
@ayounglivelysoulinanoldtir3512
@ayounglivelysoulinanoldtir3512 4 года назад
@@BanterWithBojan thank you. i thought my own experiences would be a good way of getting the message accross that wer'e not all "boogie men", as they portray us in the movies! god bless
@rdbare4216
@rdbare4216 4 года назад
You have moral choice. God did not create psychopaths. That’s a psychopathic conclusion.
@MrPrush-ji4gs
@MrPrush-ji4gs 4 года назад
you’re not a psycho, just a want to be.
@ayounglivelysoulinanoldtir3512
@ayounglivelysoulinanoldtir3512 4 года назад
@@MrPrush-ji4gs well there are other things that i have done in my life that are, shall we say, far from noble!. also, every online test for the condition that i have tried gave me high scores.
@matfejpatrusin4550
@matfejpatrusin4550 5 лет назад
At first I read "Salvation Psychopaths and Sociopaths" and I thought it's going to be a video about "christian" fundamentalists in the US, ha.
@piedramultiaristas8573
@piedramultiaristas8573 3 года назад
On the other hand. 💊I'm sharing Acts 2:38 and oneness about Jesus
@dylanchouinard6141
@dylanchouinard6141 5 лет назад
Unfortunately, a lot of people's perspectives of uncommon mental illnesses (Anti-Social Personality Disorder, which is what most people mean when they say psychopath, Dissociative Identity Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, etc. ) come from popular media, which does not tend to show any of these people in a sympathetic light. I am not a psychologist, though I do plan on becoming one, but from what I have heard most people with Psychopathy simply do not feel as much as others. There may be some outliers, but from what I have seen this is the rule. It is important to treat a person with any mental illness with love and compassion and remember that no one is beyond help. I probably didn't explain this very well, so I will point everyone to the RU-vid video "How Pop Culture Hurts the Mentally Ill" by Clementine Productions, I got a lot of my information from it and it's a very well made video.
@karenbartlett1307
@karenbartlett1307 5 лет назад
Sociopaths, I believe, are anti-social and have poor impulse control (they're impulsive).They are not terribly intelligent and tend to hurt themselves as much as they do others. Psychopaths can control their impulses, are more intelligent, and can, and do, actively and knowingly plan to take advantage of/hurt others, to one degree or another. Psychopaths can be charming and can "act" the appropriate emotion (which they learn by observation) for the situation. Psychopaths are predators (this doesn't mean they're all killers). At least this is the info which the google search I did revealed. In general, sociopaths can be characterized as "hot" while psychopaths can be characterized as "cold" in their disregard for others. Both lack empathy, which doesn't mean they don't feel emotion, necessarily, especially sociopaths. Rather, they lack feelings for others. And of course feel no remorse, especially psychopaths. Both are diagnosed as having Anti-social Personality disorder. Nobody knows necessarily what causes either condition, whether nurture or nature, and one therapist on Quora said beware of "brain-scan" tests, which aren't reliable. In my personal opinion, while a sociopath might decide to repent at some point, for some reason, a psychopath would probably just laugh at the idea, or snort or something. Or might pretend to, in order to work a scam on a congregation. Also, I wouldn't personally consider a sociopath or a psychopath as "mentally ill" in the same sense that someone with Dissociative Identity Disorder (multiple personalities) or Schizophrenia (hears voices or sees hallucinations) is mentally ill. I would simply consider them predators, whether because of poor impulse control or by design, and I would stay away from them.
@dylanchouinard6141
@dylanchouinard6141 5 лет назад
Karen Bartlett While I don’t disagree with you, I still think you’re painting with too large a stroke. All people with ASPD do have these symptoms, but like with most things involving the brain, it is a spectrum. There have been cases of psychopaths and sociopaths experiencing genuine feelings of love, and how our society treats them can greatly effect whether or not they are comfortable expressing that love. If you say to someone you genuinely care about “I love you” and they respond with “how can I know you’re not lying or trying to use me?” That would really mess up someone’s head. I’ve probably butchered this argument into a fine patte, so I would still suggest looking up that video which does a much better job of explaining this than I can
@karenbartlett1307
@karenbartlett1307 5 лет назад
@@dylanchouinard6141 Well, while I didn't use the term "spectrum" I did think I clearly said that they are not necessarily killers or anything like that. It is a matter of degree. Some are worse than others. When you take Abnormal Psychology you will learn more about them. My advice would be to be careful about being too "sympathetic" with them. Sympathy for them is something they prey on. In adolescence they are not diagnosed as either sociopaths or psychopaths. They are diagnosed with Obstructive Personality Disorder. I worked in an Adolescent Psychiatric Hospital for a summer while I was getting my Master's (in Criminal Justice) and got real tired, real quick, of their irritating mind games. Of course, as I said to a cop classmate of mine (whose wife was a counselor and wanted him to work in counseling after his retirement) "I'd rather catch 'em than treat 'em". So I am not saying that I have no bias.
@dylanchouinard6141
@dylanchouinard6141 5 лет назад
Karen Bartlett I’m not suggesting a person that you are describing be simply let to run free. When I mean sympathy, I mean the sympathy one gives to someone who is very sick and needs help healing. Still highly recommend the video, the guy did a lot of research, made a lot of good arguments, show him some love
@karenbartlett1307
@karenbartlett1307 5 лет назад
@@dylanchouinard6141 First they have to commit a crime before they cannot be "let to run free".Imo, sociopaths and psychopaths are not your typical "mentally ill". I've seen skits by schizophrenics about mental illness,similar I'm sure to the video you're talking about, and I agree that they and others with mental illness are stigmatized in probably most every society. But generally mentally ill people aren't predators, although they can be dangerous, if off their meds, but not with the frequency that society may think they are. But sociopaths and psychopaths aren't "mentally ill" in that sense. They're perfectly in their own "right mind". But their "right mind" isn't normal. My point is that they're predators on the rest of us. My advice is to keep that in mind if you have any dealings with them.
@seronymus
@seronymus 5 лет назад
Thanks for the video Bojan, if I could please ask, I have Asperger's Syndrome and you might like this study with lots of data on a theory for Neanderthal-Caucasoid hybrid origin for autism. Please give it a read and maybe also answer how do Neanderthal fit into Orthodoxy? Thank you. Link-rdos.net/eng/
@karenbartlett1307
@karenbartlett1307 5 лет назад
I know you didn't ask me, but I didn't see a study theorizing or testing a "Neanderthal-Caucasoid hybrid origin for autism" in the blogs. Autism is a difference in processing in the brain from "neurotypical" people, as far as I know. (Dr. Temple Grandin said in an email to me that I may be on the spectrum, so I hope you don't think I'm just idly curious.) I'm not sure about Asberger's, but I think it is a high-functioning type of autism, correct? (I also like to rock sometimes and talk animals and feel closer to them than to humans. Maybe I have Asberger's syndrome, but I haven't seen any diagnosis of this.) As regards the second part of your question, personally I think Neanderthals were the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis (they saw the "daughters of men" were fair, etc.and produced giants who were mighty in strength). Angels didn't mate with human women, that's for sure (as I've heard some fundamentalists teach) because angels "neither marry nor are given in marriage" said Christ.
@JaythePandaren
@JaythePandaren 5 лет назад
Bojan I have a question. Does Eastern Orthodoxy believe in the book of life. What I mean is do you believe you need to be in the book of life to be saved and enter paradise I hope you will get back to me :) thanks
@realmless4193
@realmless4193 4 года назад
I would think so. The book of life is in heaven and Christ keeps the record, so it is basically a synonym for being in Christ. Whom the son sets free is free indeed, and the book of life is the record of those he has set free.
@piedramultiaristas8573
@piedramultiaristas8573 3 года назад
On the other hand. 💊I'm sharing Acts 2:38 and oneness about Jesus
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