Sargon of Akkad and Jonathan Pageau - New Atheist Failure 

@Fritz Feuer Yes. There’s only one God. The rest are demons.

@kprop yes

@Fritz Feuer Yes.

@Fritz Feuer Yes.

@Fritz Feuer, yes, specifically, the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, Second Person of the Triune Godhead.

I have recently found Chesterton and he inspires my imagination like no other! 😁

@@kerriepaterson He's a prophet of our times.

If that ritual is Modern Man's Morning Bean Juice Extravaganza, is it worth getting away from at all? (This post brought to you by the coffee gang)

God bless you and welcome back. I think you might appreciate this quote by the great Hillaire Belloc: ""One thing in the world is different from all others. It has a personality and a force. It is recognized and (when recognized) most violently loved or hated. It is the Catholic Church. Within that household the human spirit has roof and hearth. Outside it, it is the night."

@@veilofreality Awesome that resonates with me thanks for sharing! I’m the youngest of seven and the other six would think I’m crazy for going back and actually becoming a parishioner. I’m sure they will all eventually find out and I will get ridiculed but idc at this point because my life if better and is more meaningful with it than without.

Good to hear God is at work in your life. About the catholic church it is important to remember that our saviour is not the institution but the person of Jesus. He can work through broken vessels but is our ultimate authority.

@@BenWeeks Yes, our Savior is Jesus. But He left us a Church, and we should not ignore it.

Same here. Latin mass is where it’s at, although in the southeast of America it can be hard to find.

Plus, Gay 'love'.

​@@cameront3914It's a joke. He's actually quoting Carl and comparing him to Frodo and his journey.

I wish more people would read Ken Wilber. He figured all this stuff out a long time ago. Way more consistent thinker than Peterson, who's intellectually a complete mess.

Love your channel dude

@@zootsoot2006 Which book would you recommend if i would only want to read one of them?

@@eliteakm Brief History of Everything is where most people start, me included. Sex, Ecology, Spirituality is the magnum opus though. However, it's all super easy to read, maybe just because he's such a lucid writer. He gets a lot of flack for being just a new age writer but he's way more than that. Once you read him all the different strands of thinking swishing around in your brain finally find some cohesion. The only problem I have with him is that he can be very repetitive, but then if your ideas are correct how can you not repeat yourself?

@@zootsoot2006 Thanks, i think i'll read one of them or both, let's see.

Lol he really is. It’s great!

A number of my friends had a new atheist phase. At some point they abstracted their understanding of divine agency beyond 'beard man in cloud land', which seemed to help push them back towards theism eventually.

shhhhh

This is the equivalent to Dave Rubin meeting Larry Elder. Thumbs up if you know what I’m talking about.

Pray for it.

The one. The only. The-hopefully going to be Catholic one day. Paul VanderKlay!

Just be patient. His Denomination has to dissolve from the inside out first.

@@TheJelanii No, you have to say, "Paaauuuuuul VaanderKlaaay" He's a contender!

Oh good, you're here!

Now its time to see what you have to say about it!

10/10

Hahaha yesss

I get crossover element but don't understand how this related to anime. Can someone fill me in on what I'm missing?

@@kevinkanzler495 It's a meme

I would argue Peterson was better, but great episode anyway

And DEFINITELY avoid people with last name "Tolkien."

Ah, lightning doesn't strike twice, mythologically speaking...

He is on twitter now spreading divisive and un-Christian hatred

​@Vela S You can almost interchange any number of possibilities at first except the world that exists, exists as an object of design and design without a designer is chaotic; which the physics and beings of this universe are not. For instance people often throw out the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' argument without realizing that according to the rules they set for their universe's creation it would actually make a Flying Spaghetti Monster as possible to exist as any other existence which it is not. We know it doesn't exist because we understand that the design of the universe excludes certain beings. The question then is whether this designer or designers that made the universe are personal or not? If they aren't then similar to the first answer there is no purpose and life which is a personal force is meaningless and simply an errant formation and in the end the personal forces will decay along with the universe. The main problem with the impersonal force creating is that the design of the universe is constant and there is no reason for an impersonal force to remain constant at all. The laws of physics for instance are predictable and constant, yet there would be no reason for an impersonal force to keep such 'laws' and it wouldn't even flow like a river. The world would be as likely if not more likely to be like the world of the movie Inception except even that has too many physical laws... It would instead be more likely to flow everywhere and nowhere at the same time and a universe with laws would be rarer than the universe without them. It's this that leads towards a personal designer or designers as then the universe would rightly be expected to conform to laws as a designer always makes something for a purpose and it is this that explains why everything just works. People often think that because we can program a computer to do something like create a universe (The Singularity argument) that this means that you can create an impersonal universe, but this forgets the simple fact that the computer itself is a designed construct and was created with the goal of calculation in mind which is a logic construct. It's precisely why the computer can be relied upon to work, because it has been designed to do so. Then you get to the part of whether this God or Gods are good or bad or does that concept even exist in the first place and I think this is an interesting indicator that the creator is good as the very fact that we ask this question is derived from our own reality of existence and understanding that certain actions are good and bad. Are we flawless at determining what is and what isn't? No; but we ascertain it from our own existence that to have it taken away without a 'badness' on our part is bad for instance and from there we learn that other peoples lives have the same inherent value as our own, because if they didn't then there would be no reason not to have our own life taken. There are obviously many different morals you learn in life through this means, usually this means that something is 'good' when it provides for a person without it taking from another something that was theirs (bad). I think of it as morals that are derived from life itself, yet frequently misunderstood or ignored as each of us has individual agency or desire. I agree with you though that CS Lewis was an angsty child, his arguments sound 'good', but strip away the emotional pleadings and it's found very wanting. Sorry if the reading's a bit long, but the question needs a bit of character length and at the very least I think this explanation shows why people believe in a God rather than simply existing for existence's sake. I take the view that the reason we need Jesus or God is because a personal material force (ie. us) without guidance is destined to decay; which is why there's a call to a moral goodness as that ultimately is the only thing of value out of a decaying world... what we learn and do along the way.

@@mikebenire3979 physics ... predictable and constant...quantum not so much

Are you implying that an uneducated ex-Applebees employee isn't exactly a history buff or intellectual at all?

@@actually5004 From someone with access to the endless wealth of free information on the internet, that's the most snobbish, elitist, silly thing I've heard since the last time I heard a Leftist try to insult someone. 🙄

@@RandaEd I mean I like Applebee’s he is my favorite waiter.

@@actually5004 Your comment says more about you than you intended I think.

All of Britain was gloriously Catholic before the reformation rebellion.....and it will be again

Christ is risen

Truly He is Risen

@Fritz Feuer thats unfortunate, buddy

@Fritz Feuer listen man, I’m no native speaker , that’s fascinating talking to you, I learn a lot of new words. Thanks, buddy.

good for you, my friend. I'm Catholic but as the years pass and my understanding deepens I look at Orthodoxy with greater and greater respect and awe. You really have a treasure in your tradition, one well worth cherishing.

No one can hear them...

Aquinas and Bonaventure aren’t “Church Fathers,” but maybe mislead “Church step-sons,” who wrote in Latin long after the Pope got excommunicated in 1054. The writings of the Church are in Greek, based on the Greek Bible. Augustin went astray on original sin due to his using a Latin translation of the Bible. Augustin also was a misogynist who should have married the mother of his son, instead of founding a homosexual misogynistic clerical group.

Aquinas is not a church father, nor is Bonaventure. "church father", "doctor of the church", etc are a very specific titles, not just a funny thing you add to whoever you think deserves.

@@wybuchowyukomendant They are the titles given by the only church instituted by Christ, Our Lord, the Catholic Church. All other "churches" are either schismatics or heretics and have no spiritual authority. You obviously are of those groups, which is easy to tell based on your poor argumentation and lack of any rational or logical argument. You are obviously a very ignorant and prideful person, may God have mercy on you.

Church fathers are Orthodox like Saint John Chrysosotom or St Basil

If only Sargon would learn this himself

Hey man, don’t let something pesky like truth or humility get in the way of a good ego!

He needs to brush up on his deep-ecology though lmao

'Christianity's inconsistencies ', as practicing Catholics we 'believe' in mystery not inconsistencies. The mystery compels us to contemplate the Truth. That Truth is a person, the person of Christ, the second person of the Holy Trinity. All of human history is defined by One person, AD, Anno Domini, the year of Our Lord. That is reflected in every area of your life, DOB, your passport, utility bills, bank statements and is even held in Islamic and communist countries. The belief systems you list will always be inadequate. For example, why does a Buddhist country, Japan, have an image of Christ on its national flag? The Rising Son. Every Catholic alter piece honours that by facing East. Ne Timeas.

Well, Western atheists will (for obvious political reasons) focus more on the dominant Western religions. It would be weird if all atheists equally critiqued every religion.

"Christianity" was fully debunked in 2010 by former Clergy... Why wouldn't one be against a lying death cult?

@@davidh.503 To which former clergy do you refer? Permit me to suggest exploring the concept of original sin i.e the darkening of the intellect. In our original state, our emotions where subverted to the will and the will subverted to the intellect. With the arrival of original sin, that was inverted and without the Divine virtue of Grace we remain in the dark. This is an eternal, unchanging teaching of the Catholic Church.

Islam is approximately as bad as Christianity. Buddhism has the benefit of including something profound in a way in which the Abrahamic religions don't.

It seems almost like a rite of passage for many of us when we hit 40 to think "This can't be what life is supposed to be". Accumulating as much money as possible, seeking comfort and entertainment. That's what modern society seems to encourage.

@@existentialhangover1124 You're right, I think, though in my case it was a bit different - I'd never really grabbed on to the "money-comfort-entertainment" ideal. At least not consciously. I'd rejected it before learning how Christianity made such beautiful sense of rejecting it.

I would say that humans are hardwired to desire rather than to worship. And it just so happens that the desire for comfort and structure is both strong and common. Religion provides both, especially in dire times.

@@nistarok123 Desire to worship especially one's self. Desire to have more money and someone comes along and says " don't desire that". And, you will counter " I will what I want, NO ONE can stop me" Money becomes god. Buddhism wants to eradicate " desire" but that eradication is also a form of desire

Jun Acebedo - dang!

Aard - I think he basically ment that... ‘desire’ might be the more accurate description though for a lot of situations! It’s desire and worship really 👍🏻

Man desires to worship God because he is our creator and he deserves our worship.

Yes, whether the Universalist "church" or The Satanic Temple, they ape God's truth. Even the "true" atheists are just doing what they did during the French Revolution, turning "reason" into a religion, like they did when their state-sponsored atheistic religion, the Culte de la Rasion desecrated Notre Dame by hosting the Fete de la Raison. They mocked our Lord and our Lady, dressing prostitutes up as the personification of "philosophy."

Except that it's impossible for science and empiricism to be religion, literally by definition. These are not spiritual beliefs, but observable, replicable experiments that reveal certain aspects about the nature of reality. That said, there is no "faith" or "belief" required, as is the case with religion.

By the way, what about us agnostics? I'm personally open to the idea of God, (or a God) possibly existing. I just happen to think it's infantile and stupid to presume that any scripture from any one specific religion could give us those answers, knowing what we know now about the universe.

Excellent conversation btw. I never watched you before Jonathan and made my comment before you said you were Orthodox. I've been to two liturgies now and it seems my journey is taking me there. Maybe why your video was suggested by the algorithm along with many other resources that make me feel more at home lately on a spiritual and intellectual/opinionated level. Look forward to more. :)

Thank you for this. I, too, had my experience with God. I feel that it was my moment of true salvation; a rebirth. And it came when I understood God’s love. I knew at that moment I would never be the same.

@@eurodelano Beautiful. I'm overjoyed to hear that. May God continue to bless you!

that sounds like the right attitude. only going to work for a seeker with some honesty and humility though.

@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 I see Him everywhere now.

Yes, nobody wants to be that guy, who is the religious nut. It takes sophistication and patience to tread that path. But atheism has nothing to offer me. So, this is it, here we go, we're gonna make it. We have to.

@No Sad Onions! Maybe a Christian might say "... where wise men know not to tread."

@@brando3342 your talking about moral boundaries. I'm not. I am referring to persons that have been educated or indoctrinated into stupidity. Persons that have rejected common sense in favor of a feel good ideology.

No Sad Onions! Well not exactly. I'm also referring to rationality and logic, which I'd assume you refer to as "common sense" here. Problem is, without God there is no grounding for those things including morality.

@@brando3342 I agree, but I have met moral people without common sense.

@@nosadonions3231 That's a misdefinition because morality is a common sense.

Liberalism has made every man into his own false Idol

If you don't believe in God, you will become a god unto yourself.

Take action, wear your sunday best and knock on his door.

Once he breaks out of his secular shell, I hope he humbly takes a fresh look at Christianity, letting go of his false assumptions about religion, religious people, and everything he's been taught about them. The real danger is in trying to invent some "new and improved" Christianity. The only reason to do that is out of pride, so you can reconcile "we need religion" and "Christianity dumb thing for dumb people" without ever having to admit you were wrong. That way you don't have to fearfully face the living God--you can just keep being your own god and feel nice and in control. As atheism expires (as it was always meant to), people are going to be presented with a counterfeit Christian-ish religion. It'll be modern, unifying, rational, and very appealing... it will seem like a natural evolution of humanity. But it will be even more horrible than atheism is now. That's why they had to stamp out Christianity as much as possible and sour people against it, otherwise they would never accept the sham. Let's pray that Sargon is delivered from this trap.

@@ebonifragaria What denomination are you advertising should be brought against secularism?

​@@rogerspable There is only one Truth, and that is Jesus Christ. All I can tell you is that He can assuredly be found in His church, the Orthodox Church. That's the church which Jesus built, against which "the gates of Hades shall not prevail."

@@ebonifragaria It's a pretty radical view in today's society that you insist there's one truth, and that it shouldn't be secular. The concern is that a push all the way to one dogma will cause the pendulum to swing back even harder to the opposite dogma. I hear you that Christianity may undergo misrepresentation for it to be installed, but the same is being done with atheism/secularism, that it's being purposefully used as a flag to push social and identity divides.

Sargon "smart"

@@Jonathan-hp4rb I lol'd so bad.

If you see this, that’s wonderful to hear. I would definitely recommend praying the good ol’ rosary. It’s really the Bible on beads in that each “mystery” is an event in the life of Christ or in his mother Mary which points to Christ or was done by God. That structured, repetitive framework through which one can meditate on what God has done is really excellent for deepening one’s relationship with Him and it really helps with developing a pattern and a discipline in life. God bless you!

@@jefffinkbonner9551 thanks. It's crazy 2 years ago I wrote this and have been blessed with a daughter and many good things have happened so I'm glad people still comment after awhile. I'll deff look more into that and thank you.

Right, such a smart guy. How do I get myself to think in a similar way? Well, how to think… period

I've been amazed how strong the desire to shake hands is. Being English I never did it as much as a European would. This elbow bumping, foot tapping just doesn't do it for me!

@@AndyJarman I agree. Every now and then I encounter someone brave enough to offer a handshake and I always accept it gladly. Wish I was brave enough to offer myself.

That didn't happen at all thank god :D I had like one person try to elbow bump me throughout all of it and I asked him if he was doing Muay Thai

Agreed. I think he would find his attitude and manner of thinking to be very imteresting.

Because the pushers of it at the top are NEVER atheists. The propagation of atheism historically is one weapon of War.

I see atheism as just another belief system, i.e., religion.

@@spiritmatter1553 That's the trouble with certain terms. Atheism is a lack of a belief, and as such cannot be a belief system in itself. What you are likely referring to is "humanism" which is a belief system surrounding the maximization of human flourishing using reason rather than an appeal to God, which has recently been popularized by the "New Atheists". However, one can be an atheist and not a humanist and vice versa.

But muh ideological subversion

From the First of Us to the Last of Us Too

@@mrRambleGamble cool pun

Your profile pic is fire 🔥

It's like going back to 2017.

Nonsense

Cut him a little slack maybe?

he's searching, he'll probably get there in due time. currently he's still too prideful

"Christianity" was fully debunked in 2010 by former Clergy...

David H. 😂😂😂😂

We all make mistakes. Also Clergy. But christianity does not think this is extraordanary. The question is rather if Jesus is the one he claims to be? And the implications for induviduals and society. One of my "outputs" of the conversation here is that debunking is easy- but the point is what to put in its place? The host here suggested virtue (Aristoteles). A hierarki of ways of being. Jonathan Pageau project is to show how any hierarki of any human sort is bound to failure. My take is the three stages of Kierkegaard. Aestetics. Ethics. Religion. Thhis conversation reminded me of Kierkegaard. Found the conversation to be in a mutual respective tone. Bless them both for their effort of understanding rather than just debunking. Exuse my poor english. Im a guy from Kristiansand, Norway.

@@davidh.503 He says as he tips his fedora. The cheeto dust fell from his lips and landed on his fat belly where his "debate me" shirt failed to cover. The smell of his BO so strong it escaped from his reddit page and soured the world.

@@MilesTraveler That how your Biography starts?

His piles of money keeps him away from that

So you read that the Jew's "God" was only an Earth-made Volcano, then? The one that Palestinians already worshipped-- prior to both Judaism and "Christianity"...

@Pedro Cavalcanti There is also no "Being" hinted at-- with chemical processes, following eternal, naturalistic cause and effect guidelines.

@Pedro Cavalcanti A Volcano-- is not a "He"... "Yahweh" was the Volcano tribe of the Pre-Palestinian peoples... A Volcano does not have "morals"... And neither does the Bible have objective morals.

@Pedro Cavalcanti No. Morality is an objective standard by which you judge the actions taken by an individual-- and see whether they hurt or help "well-being"... No "God of transcendent nature" has ever been shown to exist-- ever.

@Pedro Cavalcanti Worshipping of idols -- is not a crime--- nor is it relevant to Reality being without a "God" / or other imaginary being...

@@christopherapodaca2373 haven't heard of him, I'll check him out. I'm sure there will be exceptions, as in everything, but I think most modern people that go from pure secularism to religion will have a romantic/artistic angle (this is saying nothing of those who go from religion to atheism and back to religion, which is a different thing).

I love everything you said, except the last bit. Interpreting the bible psychologically is what he’s after. Symbols (art) come straight from the psyche. Its a small thing for me to split hairs about, I agree otherwise. He’s got soul, so it doesn’t come off like a dry scientist, he comes off as a romantic. Anyway!

@@mudhut4491 yeah I was leaning into that to make a point, but it's certainly not wrong to call his interpretation psychological. If you saw "Psychological Study of the Bible" sitting on the shelf, you'd expect something from a materialist perspective about how mass delusion is built into the human condition. But JBP takes the biblical stories, and unwinds the themes, analyzes the character's motivations and actions, much like literary analysis. To me that's more on the art side, but agreed, there is no hard line where art ends and psychology begins.

@@chrisc7265 bingo. Great take on the mix of art and science.

Bless you 🙏🏾

I'm of the opposite belief, he have stayed the same just crystalized his thoughts.

I would be interested in hearing more about Sargon's views on Aristotle.

@@trbry. I hope he doesn't become crystalized beyond salvation

The Abolition of Man is brilliant and is what got me into Lewis. I came across it on this great channel dedicated to him that does continuous illustration along with audiobook m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-idgYLTnSzxI.html

Now I believe Sargon has read a lot of CS Lewis and I recall (Although I can not find the video I heard it in) some of the lotus eaters (Carl's crew) talking about the book in question.

He also talks about the inversion of hierarchies in the West, and the consequent mob rule.

There's also the second religiousness coming at the end of a civilization, which is exactly what we see now with emerging competing religious systems(even if a lot of them we wouldn't name religions) It's mostly like what happened in the first centuries AD, ending with the win of Christianity

good take on Spengler, I was thinking Carl was stumbling across Technics without really knowing , 'materialistic' etc. seems like he's been doing his reading since getting whipped in 2017 bloodsports

@@Benjamin-ks2rq I think I'm stumbling thru' Spengler like Carl. I've barely skimmed his work, but his predictions have become such stark reality in recent years I think we're all becoming experts. (I'm going to reuse that 'bloodsports' reference lol)

John David John David Ebert channel has a hyper modernity podcast where he also has discussed Spangler his work on his channel and within the hyper-modern contacts Don the current Euro I suggest his work for Sargon and Jonathan especially if they're not familiar I followed his work and Jonathan's especially in regarding the symbolism in mythology mythological world in the modern era it would be great to have more discussions on that topic involving Spengler and the seasonal aspect of the civilizations in these times

If I had to guess JP has actually little if any exposure to Eliade, which, if anything, makes the convergence of ideas that much more illuminating and likely to be revealing something real.

@@peten5426 I agree. I have a feeling that Jonathan, however, has read Eliade. Specifically because of the vocabulary he's using. When people start talking about "cosmic images" and "sacred spaces", they've usually at least read The Sacred and The Profane. I could be wrong, I'm not a consistent viewer of his.

@@tm23822 Belying some of my own ignorance however I'm at least somewhat certain this sort of language is also to be found in the Eastern Christian mystics like Gregory of Nyssa and Maximus the Confessor, two prime inspirations of JP. All mostly beside the point though as what really matters is that this sort of language, from across eras and traditions, is all pointing to some essential aspect of existence and that JP is particularly adept at synthesizing these ideas and making them relatable to our current 21st century condition.

@@tm23822 He has a reading list on Patreon, that includes "Images and Symbols", so I'm pretty sure he has read some Eliade.

Are you proud of how he destroyed UKIP?

Shoot - just read CS Lewis. Any book of essays by CS Lewis.

O'Ambitious One True!

"Faith" is belief without evidence, or in the face of evidence to the contrary... What about that is "interesting"?

David H. You an Atheist? Atheists are some of the most faithful people to come across. They have no doubt their doctrine is correct even though their evidence cannot explain or disprove the divine. I guess you belive in yourself? A very dangerous thing that, since people that belive in themselves the most are lunatics in an asylum. They belive in themselves so strongly that no one can convince them that they aren’t Napoleon lets say. I am no denier of science, and science has given many wonderful things and discoveries. But prove love to me. We know it exists, but what is the rationality behind it? Do you seriously belive that the love you feel to your mother, father, a dear friend or your own child is just a chemical reaction and nothing more? Can you, by a rational scientific study or formula, explain love? Can you explain why we make art? Why we love to create? Can you use the scientific method to prove God is not real? Evidence can be found in reasoning and logic too you know. You might like Lewis who was a very devout Atheist up til a point.

@@christianbjorck816 I have ZERO beliefs that I hold that are based upon a lack of evidence. Dishonesty will not "Score you points"... Atheism is the rejection of the assertion that a "God" exists. It is the position of not being convinced that you are correct. IT DOES NOT HAVE A DOCTRINE-- STUPID SACK OF SHI*.

He does but if my example means anything just watch more RU-vid videos on authentic Christianity and find people who badger you into it lol

@@juliannkretonn4623 If I thought he was sincere, I think prayer would be enough. He seems to think being English will suffice Hmm. Do I see a slight resemblance to Henry VIII?

This year has definitely produce more absurd realities.

what's this quote from?

@@infidelcastro6687 oops, sorry. It's not a quote from anyone, just me. Apologies for the confusion.

@@Kuldirongaze1 oh, gotcha. well, hopefully it happens soon anyway

Yeah... I just use Tinder.

@@dylanwight5764 That’s degenerate

That is a good product but not the intention of the Gospel, even the secular world can produce it.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ddxnyuZD-BA.html

And he just posted a video talking about Sargon

Next on too watch :) Vankerclay reviews this