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When you think about it, this makes Lord Farquad a better evil lord. So an animated movie from early 2000s beats amazon's 1 billion dollar show which uses Tolkien works as a source. You can use any measure and it will beat Rings of Power.
@@Sangth123 Yes, but according to the book, he was beaten by a couple of people and one person cut the ring from his finger of a half-dead body. It's not a problem for such a crowd to defeat Sauron.
@@dinoworld112 I understand that he could communicate with them. I just mean that he wouldn’t have conversations with them in that tone… he wouldn’t try and convince them of anything. He was debating with them as if they were on his level… he’s literally a dark god.
@@V_II_IK_I_IN_G He wasn't really trying to politely debate them though. He basically said "I am your only option, you better follow me, who dares to disobey?"
@@V_II_IK_I_IN_G He's a fallen angel at best. Not a god. That would be Morgoth. Also Sauron in the books is a lot more physically present than he was in the movie trilogy, which made a lot of people think of him as a transcendental entity. I repeat, he is not a god or even a disembodied will for most of his existence. He is an evil spirit with flesh and blood who has been bested by his lessers before.
The most cring scene of this show so far. 1. Sauron who is one of the most powerful maia spirit being killed by mere orcs 2. Sauron calling himself by the name "Sauron" 3. Sauron wasting his time on speech in front of orcs 4. Sauron who is master deciever being outsmarted by group of orcs 5. Sauron talking nonsense 6. Sauron being venom absorbing others to replenish his inner power reserves...
8. Sauron taking his Annatar form in front of his servants which makes no sense. The orcs would believe an elf invader has appeared and would try to catch him to bring him to Sauron.
@@VladfishTheMagnificentthat’s false Sauron was good at fights he just wasn’t the best And he only has 2 defeats in battle and neither of them were him at his strongest
Idea of Sauron, the Dark Lord standing on a podium and campainging to orcs like some f*cking politician is hilarious. He can bent Nazgûl, whom are undead wizard-kings to his will. Orcs would even frightened of breathing in his presence.
TBH, the notes mention the orcs laughed at Sauron and rebelled against him when he tried to rule them after Morgoth's fall. We just didn't see the process. He did brood around uselessly for centuries. So it's probably based on that.
"- as long as he went among the Elves in a fair visage, the long-autonomous Eastern Orcs resented him" They are taking some points of this in to this show so imo it checks out. I understand that they had to put things in much shorter timeframe in this show than how they went in books. Also at this time sauron didn't have ring of power yet and nazguls weren't even created so. As i understand, orcs during the reign of Morgoth were much more autonomous but followed Morgoth out of fear and hate for elves and men but orcs under Sauron followed him later on because they didn't have any choice because of the one ring and the fear is caused them. Between those two times i can imagine many orcs were trying to get to be by themselfs and not just tools for war for dark lords.
@@simonlopez-xx1bi Why are you pretending that this would ever happen in the books, or that you've read them yourself? Do you genuinely think amazon is being faithful to the source material here?
Why is he talking in human-language to his orc minions? why is he talking to them almost as peers? I just started watching and I geniunly view it as a parody show
Sauron getting taken down by a rabble of Orcs aside, why is the show acting like Sauron has to make a pitch to the Orcs to be their leader?Sauron has been leading the Orcs for uncounted ages of Arda both as Morgoth’s lieutenant and in his master’s 3 ages long absence in Valinor. Sauron should just have to click his fingers.
After rereading the silmarilion sauron's power is insane, and orcs are an incredibly fearful beings which would of cowered at the sight of sauron this is an absolute joke.
Sauron pours some strength into controlling his minions, so open betrayal is nearly impossible, unless you're a strong-willed numenorean, elf or dwarf.
This is just after Morgoth, the top ruler has died and sauron is trying to seize absolute power, not a lieutenants power. They clearly also have someone else they would want to lead them, Adar
@@John-b1z3x "But not until Mordor and the Barad-dûr were ready could he allow them to come out of hiding, while the Eastern Orcs, who had not experienced the power and terror of the Eldar, or the valour of the Edain, were not subservient to Sauron - while he was obliged for the cozening of Western Men and Elves to wear as fair a form and countenance as he could, they despised him and laughed at him. Thus it was that though, as soon as his disguise was pierced and he was recognized as an enemy, he exerted all his time and strength to gathering and training armies, it took some ninety years before he felt ready to open war." - Nature of Middle Earth
Orcs fear the very sight of Sauron, no way this would ever happen. He fled for a thousand years after Morgoth's defeat, then returned, all evil amassed to him, etc.
Maybe they feared him After he could reborn? why is it so fckin important? :D Okay i admit he was much more prsuading just to be betrayed like this. But we got to see how he can reborn from death 🥶🥶 why iis everyone so sad about it i dont know
@@epicmetod As he is now. His powers are unrestricted because he never came as a wizard but he constantly needs to be in a physical form to interact with the world.
Reminder that by now in the canon timeline, Mairon (Sauron) had: - Commanded the armies of Angband (far more vast than even Mordor at full strength) - Aided in the bolstering of orc numbers - Harried the elves in their March - Commanded a "host of Balrogs" in war against the elves - Overtook an elvish isle and remained it Tol-in-Gaurhoth, the Isle of werewolves, of which he was the lord, alongside Draugluin - And last but not least. Killed Finrod, a legendary elvish king, nearly killing Beren, another legend among men. And he gets kicked to death by like 5 orcs because he was a "unworthy", and they liked Adar, the show writers' OC, better?
5000 orcs ran from the Balrog, the Balrog was defeated by Gandalf the wWhite. Gandalf the White would not even venture close to Mount doom in fear of Sauron without a physical form or a ring. This scene means I can't watch anymore of this show. It's just too stupid.
Gandalf the Grey killed Balrog! aand why is it stupid? it was hell of agood scene. People just so stubborn like a donkey cant accept if some things are changed
Gandalf the grey destroyed Balrog without using most of his angelic powers. He was restricted from using those, he and other istars could have united and easily defeated Sauron, but that would have led to catastrophic losses in the middle earth, changing it completely and for good. But yes, orcs killing Sauron was stupid, he was the most powerful Maia and had no restrictions on how much power could he unleash, he obviously has control over all the elements like fire, water, air or earth, he could have easily vanquished all the orcs and their adar in a blink of eyes but yet his physical form was vulnerable just like Gandalf’s or Saruman’s. And stab wounds could damage his physical form.
Are you kidding me?! Sauron is an evil godlike being that is able to bend dark creatures like Orcs to his will! Why does he even need to argue his case or fear betrayal if his servants are too scared of him?!
How stupidly Sauron was shown in this series can be discussed endlessly. Instead of appearing before the orcs (bloodthirsty and treacherous creatures, by the way) in his main form, a tall, formidable ruler, dressed in shadow-black armor with spikes, Sauron in the series appears before them in the guise of a cloying little man and pushes eloquent speeches, as if in front of him is not an army of bloodthirsty ghouls, but very civilized people from Gondor or Rohan. Well, let's say. But after the orcs attacked him, not only does he not decide to take his true form and smash them all into meat, he barely overcomes killing a couple, then just to be stabbed by them. THIS IS NONSENSE.
@@TheTokkin you sound like your trying to defend this show when the guy above is right Sauron has no reason to deceive the orcs here Sauron is the kind of person who puts a crown on his own head he doesn’t need his followers to crown him or approval He a force of nature that embodies terror To the point the orcs follow him if only because of his great power
Fun fact: Sauron hated when everyone called him this Sauron. He wanted to be administered as "The Lord", the reason behind all that is meaning of the word Sauron in Sindarin. Which translates to "disgusting"
It's not about that. By the moment Isildur cut the ring from Sauron's finger, the latter was so exhausted that his fea had no longer enough strength to support his physical body. Thus, when it happened, Sauron's body just collapsed. My point is, maiar like Sauron or Gandalf may lose their bodies even without mortal wounds. Losing tremendous amounts of their power may be enough for death to occur.
@@GanteSpruce wrong. Gil-Galad and Elendil wore him out, and that cost both them their lives. With them dead, Sauron was so exhausted that he was crippled enough for Isildur to cut the ring from his finger. Only then Sauron finally could not maintain his body and was defeated.
Wrong. Elendil and Gil-Galad defeated Sauron at the cost of their own life, Isildur just cut off the ring from Saurons body unlike in the movies which made sauron grab after Isildur for whatever reason. That's how it is in the books. @@thedarkone9552
@@thedarkone9552 The other problem is that if you put too much essence into one thing itself, which is a physical thing like the ring, is it any surprise that his physical body broke?
This dude doesn’t feel imposing or impressive at all. The minds of orcs and goblins were Sauron’s playthings. Yet I’m supposed to believe he can deceive several high ranking elf lords but some brain rot orcs aren’t having it?
Writers that shouldn't be writing ever again. You can't make the main baddy look like a chump for begging and being defeated by little rat ahh goblins right in the beginning of the show. Then the audience won't take the villain seriously. They did this in Ant-Man by having Kang beaten by a little girl. And then they want us to believe this guy is to succeed Thanos.
Sauron took the weak form of flesh but the Balrog is "shadows and fire" literally How can you kill shadow and fire? how can you stab fire? how can you make shadow bleed?
@@adeadpoet4221he's a shape shifter. And, more importantly, he's a leader and easily reads minds, literally. Especially orcs. Who are bound to evil by Morgoth.
@@brainworm666 this is the problem when someone pompous and uneducated gets the delusion they know what they are talking about. The Orcs' only structure is pure militarism and servitude to evil, the Black Speech is there to give orders and maintain uniformity across the board. This show is just f*cking ridiculous. JRR Tolkien has been spinning so much in his grave it probably blew up half of Oxfordshire.
Read a little about the restrictions Amazon and the show writers are dealing with. Tolkien's estate put a lot of restrictions on the studio, thus whatever material they were left with was essentially the appendices of the three books.
@@anidynamic The showrunner's philosophy is "Tolkien's outdated, we are going to reinterpret his works for modern audiences". That's a demonic and rotten philosophy, evil cannot create, it can only destroy what is good.
@@anidynamicso they should be excused cause they weren’t given the eggs to make an omelet but they tried making one anyways?…make it make sense bro And let’s not forget the fact that they indeed tried to make it with unatural ingredients like battery acid…that too me sounds more like irresponsible but sure let’s excuse the dumb rich people making garbage.
Idk feel like this kinda diminishes Sauron’s aura. Like dudes suppose to be a god or whatever and he gets bodies by some regular dudes. I did like ice explosion thing, looked cool lol
Sauron was supposed to have a terrifying and deadly presence, same as the Nazgul but even more so. Hard to believe the Nazgul are more terrifying than Sauron.
@@hamechok3279 There's nothing normal about this travesty of a show, Sauron wasn't a politician and his army wasn't composed of some free-willed peasants with normal families that needs speeches in order to choose and serve the dark lord. The orcs were twisted and corrupted, loyal to Morgoth and Sauron by design.
@@mirceadacialorantbrescia4340 Comparing Saruman to the Dark Lord is like comparing a vyvern to a dragon, Saruman is powerful, sure, but not even close to Sauron. Saruman was also in a weakened state when he was killed, and it was probably not a death from the knife cut from Grima, but from falling from his tower and being speared through the entire body on impact.
@@thwe0016 saruman is same level creature with sauron( they are maia).(sauron is stronger than saruman but still saruman is also maia) A human cannot kill saruman by that logic but you ignore it.
@@mirceadacialorantbrescia4340 I know they are maia, but like I said, you are not taking into consideration the fact that Saruman is much weaker than Sauron (hence the comparison of Vyvern to a dragon), and that Saruman was basically already defeated when he was killed.
Why is he speaking to the Orcs as if he needs to convince them to join him? He only needs Adar's loyalty. Most orcs, forgive me, "Uruks", dont even have the intelligence to comprehend what he's talking about.
This is another scene that demonstrates that the "writers" of this show have no (or very limited) awareness of Tolkien's mythology. Sauron would never be taken down by a group of basic orcs. He was incredibly powerful, shrewd and intelligent. This is similar to when, in Season 1, the show has Galadriel sailing back to Valinor as a reward for her service and then she jumps into an endless ocean because she feels called to go back to Middle Earth. I knew after seeing this sequence that the writers weren't familiar with or respectful of (assuming they even cared) Tolkien's mythos and lore. Galadriel was banished from Valinor in part for her decision to leave Valinor and assist her family in kin in pursuing Morgoth into Beleriand (although it appears that she had grown tired of Valinor and wanted to rule her own lands). The "banishment" of those elves who took part in the hunt for Morgoth is such a major aspect of The Silmarillion and what happens later in Middle Earth. Galadriel's banishment hinted at in the LotR series when she has to decide whether to take the one ring from Frodo--she doesn't and is therefore released to return to Valinor (although after the War of Wrath, I think the Doom of Mandos was lifted). At any rate, it is absurd to suggest that elves were coming and going between Valinor and Middle Earth randomly or that Galadriel jumped into a vast ocean merely because she felt the urge to go back and fight Sauron. The RoP series is atrocious and is a serious stain on Tolkien's legacy.
They are probably aware. They just suppose themselves wise enough to "improve" upon the "old racist" Tolkien's life's work. They are little kids playing with daddy's tools and supposing that the pile of boards they stacked up and hammered together are an improvement over the elegant dining room table that daddy made. Unfortunately, since we live in a world where it's "loving" and "supportive" to tell children that their shoddy work is "wonderful," how can they be expected to tell the difference?
@@grodkowski parading and calling himself Sauron infront of bunch of orcs make no sense either. Orcs should be terrified to be even in Sauron’s presence let alone do this lmao
@@tadabanri8573 for a show that apparently “nobody is watching” coming in at number 2 each week sure is a flop isn’t it?! lol 😂 The same people who claim they hate it all seem to worry and consume each and every piece of media related to it. Grow up and touch grass
You just want to grab some producers by the ears and scream "GAME OF THRONES IS OVER AND YOU CANNOT RECREATE THE IMPACT OF IT NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY! BE ORIGINAL"
Sauron vs 10000 orcs is like Madara showing up at the chunin exams and slaughtering everybody like a bunch of genin still drinking milky box. At the point after Morgoth fall the orcs shoud well already know who Sauron is, he help created them and has power over creations of evil. This is character assassination to have the main baddy look like a chump.
I’m happy to accept after the fall of Morgoth that he was slightly weakened but this is quite a stretch of the lore. The orcs were literally extensions of his will (evil).
Sauron is supposed to be a tall, majestic(whether beautiful or frightening), austere, imposing and intimidating being----who by his very nature, commands fear and reverence from friend and foe. Therefore, Orcs wouldn't dare attack him for any reason! Regardless of what he said or did.
Here’s my understanding of this scene. There's a passage in the books that mentions how Sauron was disrespected by the Eastern Orcs, who laughed at him and despised him because they didn’t know his true power. So, the idea that Orcs would defy him isn’t completely out of place. As for the complaints about Sauron appearing weak in this scene: yes, he’s a powerful being, but he was never on the same level as Morgoth, who wielded the most destructive forces in the world. Sauron’s strength lay in more subtle things (corruption, manipulation, and control). Without the One Ring, he’s still incredibly strong, but far from invincible. You could compare him to the wizards: although more powerful, Sauron also has his limits without the Ring. For example, he can’t just unleash devastating magic or summon fire without needing time to recover. So it makes sense that, after being severely wounded by the crown, he would struggle against a group of Orcs. And if that still feels off, remember that the showrunners are aware of how powerful he truly is. After all, his “death” triggers an ice explosion that freezes the entire landscape.
His combat abilities were still way beyond a typical wizard or any other immortal before the ring. He was able to fight Huan and Luthien and only lost because the Valar made it destiny for Huan to only lose to Carcharoth. He'd easily be able to wipe out a large group of orcs by himself by assuming whatever form he needed like a giant armored monster, werewolf, vampire, serpent or anything he wants. Also, orcs are magically controlled by Sauron so it makes no sense how they'd rebel against him only to later be afraid of war which they were bred to love. The writers don't know anything about the nature of Orcs and Sauron in lotr, but as long as you pretend it isn't in lotr then it's an ok 4/10 show that you can watch if you have nothing else to do.
Every trash idea is better than this... What if... Sauron: The darkest night before dawn. I regret to inform you that our old Dark Lord has gone irrevocably. But don't be in a hurry to get upset. Because today a new era is rising, under my leadership. Your new Dark Lord, Mairon. Sauron: Of course, I have my own vision of the order in my Dark Empire. There is only one way to achieve the improvement of society. Social mobility and competent trade unions. Healthy eating, of course. But the most important thing is that for some reason no one mentioned it... This is a FULL abstinence from alcohol. The Orcs are outraged. Sauron: It is alcohol that is rampantly destroying your body and crippling your health. No more grog in the morning, cognac for lunch and ale before going to bed. Open the morning we start with milk, and for lunch we eat healthy cereals and fruits. And remember that we can only defeat this sin by joint efforts. All as one. Orc: I can't get up in the morning without grog!!! Sauron: And those who resist... They will receive alternative methods of education. Cancellation of social benefits, community service. Forced community service and confiscation of pension savings. It's all for your own good, comrades! I just want to save your nation from this sin! The Orc attacks Sauron. The Orc is dying. Sauron: I AM YOUR ONLY SALVATION! WITHOUT ME, YOU'LL ALL GET DRUNK AND ROT IN THE PITS! GO TO HELL WITH CLAIMS!
Sauron existed before the world was even a thing, and is veteran of... basically all the wars it has had since the dawn of time. So yeah, he's a supernaturally skilled fighter by default (though not the greatest compared to others of his kind).
Let’s make this clear this can’t happen Sauron can’t be harmed physically unless you have divine powers or enchanted weapons Not to mention at his absolute weakest he is country level(at his most powerful you can argue he is star maybe galaxy level plus in a physical form in his prime with the one ring, I can link feats and statements to that ) And would be above the witch king who can’t be killed physically either unless again via enchanted weapons Otherwise throw Sauron in a sun or black hole he will be unharmed physically And blades would shatter in contact with him There is a reason people fear him And it’s because he can kill you in an instant or mind F you And you can’t fight back at all once he decides to Rings of power does him dirty
@@kodesh1674 that’s when he was at his weakest even then Sauron can’t be harmed by anything physical Meaning throw him into the vacuum of space and have him fall down to earth and he’ll be fine Meaning that crown those swords would do Jack all to him They be like trying to fight with feathers Unless they are enchanted with divine power or magic which they don’t have Only then can you harm his physical form Its why narzil the sword that cut the ring from him is so prized its because its one of the only weapons that can harm him
This is not correct. If Sauron takes a physical shape. The limitations of the physical being does constrain him. The body or form can be hurt, damaged or killed but he is spiritual being as a Maia is immortal and cannot be killed.
@@isaacm2374 you are correct however even his body unless you have a power or enchantment of the same nature of Sauron’s body can you harm him otherwise he is like ghost rider where he technically can’t be hurt or injured by anything physically again unless some divine power or weapons are involved Which is why this scene makes no sense
Yeah, this elegant speech is exactly what orcs are starving to hear! This scene have to the vibes of a very scary movie, the bare absurdity of him standing where in this clothes, giving a speech to a crowd of mindlessl bloodthirsty drones.
Like I can accept the in that form sauron could be killed at least his body at the end of the day sauron is the same being like saruman gandalf and randagast he is a maiar and they can die and be sent to the hall of mandos and valinor like elves but the valar can intervene like when gandalf the grey became gandalf the white but the fact the orcs resisted him? thats odd to me and i expected more of a fight from sauron i mean it took a fallen maiar balrog to hurt gandalf enough for him to pass
Who can every foreshadowing such outcome? How can one predict that most cunning, violent and devoid of any moral principles creatures could betray you?
the entire story of sauron is : start to conquer then being bully, hide for 500+ years and do it again and again its quite funny because is like : ok, next time i'll get you🤣🤣
@@tsotne2896 Oh really? Stop justifying this nonsense with your half knowledge of lore. He wasn't defeated by a cut finger, he lost his ring which he put almost all of his power in it. Even then he wasn't "defeated".
@@tsotne2896 by that point he was so tremendously exhausted that the loss of the ring suddenly lowered his innate strength threshold. When it happened, Sauron could no longer support his physical body, and it collapsed. That can happen to any ainur.
@@ch3rlo_1 if you want me to be specific about the matter, i can do much better - he had his ring put on one of his fingers and cutting it off resulted in losing the one ring which eventually lead to the fact that he was no longer able to regain his physical form and that could be seen as a defeat. Sauron has been around before the shaping of the world (it's called Arda in TOLKIEN'S universe)and he was one of the Maiar which makes him immortal. his body wasn't indestructible, but as a spirit he was everlasting. so we could assume that he couldn't be killed. but after the forging of the one ring, he made himself killable. "into this Ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all". his immortal soul has been put in the ring and after it was completely destroyed, Sauron was gone with it as well.
If this isn’t a believable ‘ending’ for Sauron then how is it believable that Isildur could be the end of him by getting close enough to cut off his hand?
