Science Used to Be Weird - Safety Third 106 

god this episode is killing me, jane goodall had NOTHING to do with koko the gorrilla, she researched chimps

This week on safety third - the gang discovers ethics

jesus, from the basic neurology of insects to jane goodall being "cancelled", allen pan is just a misinformation machine today

Yo the Koko gorilla scientist who did all the shady stuff was NOT jane goodall. it was Francine Patterson

The lack of ag literacy in the crew really shows. If you want grazers to be useful, you need to fence them into the desired area. The first question that I would ask is, "Why is the goat anywhere near my house, where it can grind its horns on my siding?" They really got a goat before putting up a wire fence.

I wish Kevin would do some more really dumb laser stuff, but maybe only because I've now got 9 cutting/engraving lasers in my garage.

who can stop the Allen Pan misinformation machine 😢

I love the instant decision that it was a global cover up rather than they just got the wrong person

The reason that most of the time dogs dont *express* pain is because they're sort of aware that it's not good to be injured and so they basically try to hide it from us. In the wild, if an animal shows pain, it's more likely to be targeted by a predator. For us, that's massively different due to how social and empathetic we are as humans.

do note that jane goodall was the one that lived with chimps in the wild, the koko girl was penny patterson. also, koko, much like myself, liked all tiddies, not just women’s, might’ve also been nipples specifically. i believe robin williams, for example, talked about koko grabbing his nipples

I had a classmate who raised sheep and he told me they spend the nights thinking of ways to unalive themselves.

Koko was always a scam: 1. Apes, even Koko, have never shown the capacity for *language*. The signing they learn is simple and they do not use grammar. While it is still impressive, It is an insult to sign language to call what Koko does sign language. 2. Koko's handlers have always mysteriously given translations far more complex than the signs made by the gorilla, and there has always been a layer of obfuscation such that only Koko's handlers are able to "properly" interpret the signs, including those competent in ASL or BSL. Animals are amazing and animal communication is an incredible field that is still uncovering all sorts of interesting stuff. Machine learning has been an amazing tool allowing us to look deeper into the chatter and calls of bats, dolphins (they seem to have names!!!??!?), etc. and even synthesize communication for them to interpret, but Koko is not some magical pariah, just great ape (heh) misused in a long term scam that probably has/had good intentions.

the big dolphin researcher was really into LSD, the dolphins that took LSD killed themselves while tripping out by not coming up for air

splitting the audio when the two groups are talking was hilarious

Please get cody'slab as a guest.

My absolute favorite thing they do is split the audio channels when they start having two conversations at the same time. It works so well in my headphones

For folks who dabble in science. It boggles my mind they didn't anticipate that the eaten grass would be converted to piss and shit.

William legit not understanding mental and physical pain being separate and having differential effects was... interesting.

I love that the first 10 mins epitomizes most of what happens in Will and Kevin's life. They get something, doesn't look into it and then surprise Pikachu face when it does what it's supposed to lol. Never change guys. Of course the goat is gonna poop everywhere and it's gonna eat the tastier plants it's a goat

When dealing with animals(especially invertebrates) it's important to not think about pain or suffering, because those are very hard to quantify. Except in terms of rationalizing culling. It's important to think of quality of life, and prioritize quality over quantity. A long life, or large colony isn't necessarily conducive to good life. I've learned this lesson many times over dealing with animal hoarders who seem physically incapable of learning it. Think about the enrichment the animal is missing, about its place in the ecosystem, and about how it impacts you and others. If you don't want to make goat cheese, don't get a goat. If you don't want to be taught shallowness of mortality by an animal that barely counts as being alive, don't get a sheep. Insects don't have the same pain receptors as us because they're that different, but obviously they get nervous system shock which can overload them in a similar way as with extreme pain. Borax/diatomaceous earth(silica shells of diatoms) are great because they're cheap, non-toxic to people, dogs, cats, birds, but they're not nearly as effective as insecticide that's soluble in fatty tissue. Biggest issue with animal care is that an emotional response, and aversion to certain options, can lead to more pain and suffering than experience and critical assessment. As soon as you put on emotional blinders, you also become blind to the animals state of mind.

I’ve never had both headphones in when you did the split convo. Instantly and completely overwhelmed. Is this what it feels to have a sheep brain?

nilered where

This is wild: Lovatt (the researcher) stayed on the island and married a photographer who had photographed their research. They later moved back into the Dolphinarium and converted it into a family home. Together they had three daughters.

her name is missing in the description

Allan Pan coming up with the most overcomplicated Tamagotchi ever 😂

I legit think that the jane goodall mandela effect thing is because of a infamous internet videos of a women who owned a chimp who mauled one of her guest and the video is the phone call of the Jane Goodall look alike, who also happened to own a monkey, freaking out with live commentary of her chimp mauling the person and then she asks the 911 dispatcher for the police officers to bring a gun

Me when allen spreads misinformation: 🤭\ For the record, Jane Goodall had nothing to do with Francine Patterson/The Gorilla Foundation

No way we finally get to see what they're looking at on screen?

You could 100% bully a chicken into killing itself. They are super social and super sensitive creatures. You'd have to be an absolute monster to do it, but yeah.

What could possibly have been said that was bad enough to cut out of the Peter the Dolphin episode?

According to google, a termite hill is made of roughly 20% Aluminum and 23% iron, meaning it shouldn't be that hard to extract those and (using a title oxygen from the atmosphere) turning it into Thermite!

RETURN OF THE LEFT RIGHT AUDIO it was very crisp this time, thank you

What did they expect the sheep and goat to do it not poo everywhere? They are for turning plants into poop. If you start with a lot of plants you are going to get a lot of poop

thank you so much guys, this was the worst one yet, enjoyed it thoroughly.

Someone roped me into showing a sheep for 4h and they're dumber than chickens. They destroyed everything. shit and piss on anything that wasn't grass.

16:00 I'm an exterminator, you're correct about non repellents being a problem, but the active ingredient itself isn't the problem. Fipronil is a common flea and tick medicine for cats and dogs. The problem is these non repellents are first designed for termites and as such they are designed to last for years, where as most common insecticides last a couple months. They also tend to be much worse for pollinators than more common pyrethroid insecticides. Pyrethoids can be detected by insects and they will avoid them.

It’s sad that koko the gorilla sadly didn’t really know sign language

i feel like the thing they do where they split the audio when they all talk at once actually genuinely helps me listen to them and it feels cool to actually be able to process multiple trains of thought at the same time

The sheep ate Kevin’s weed?!

I'm so proud of Nigel, they changed genders from one episode to another

Listening to William, describe studying philosophy, is like listening to someone describe studying mathematics as drawing squiggles on a blackboard.😂

Great to see @Estefannie back on the podcast, forgot to link in the description though, lol.

I love how they divided the conversation

Old farmers saying is, "sheep is the only animal the would die twice if it could". They're _dumb_ dumb.

Thursdays are good days!

Koko couldnt actually speak sign language. it's like a parent hearing their baby say blobo and think that means they want their bottle

If y'all were wanting to "dig up dirt" on Jane Goodall, there's actually alot of controversy over her book and some of her methods she used in her famous research with chimpanzees. I will say, if you go down this rabbit hole, it leads to misogynist blogs. You might argue, some of the criticism is overly critical because of her outsized impact as a woman.

Hey Will, for your ant issue, you can trench around your place and use fipronil from 'domyown' pest control. It'll prevent subterranean termites as well as your ants and more for like 10 years, it only takes a few hours to do.

You'r right about dogs and pain. ive seen my dog running full speed smack his head into a tree and just took off running like it didnt even phase him.

As someone with a literal mental block in my comprehension of empathy and feeling of emotions . The whole talk about "are they actual feeling pain or is it just a response telling them its how they are supposed to act" hit way to hard. There is mo solid answer to any of these questions

I enjoy the multiple conversations at the same time. It’s stimulates my adhd.

i can't believe none of them had heard about the robin williams bit where he talks about coco's nipple thing

If you think goats are bad, then never, ever, ever under any circumstances get chickens.

I started watching some of the Half Baked Science episodes. Now all of Allen's animal facts and his disdain of koalas makes sense.

I laughed my ass off so much during this episode. Thanks for making my day better with the absurdity.😂

I hope will has fenced the goat and sheep into an small area by now - thats how you get them to eat the grass down - then you move the fence to another area

I skipped taxes for 4 years and never filed an extension, I was owed money every year so I didn’t have to pay a fine or anything, just had to file the oldest on paper once I did it

As a person who felt like her house was built on an anthill, the ants were inescapable, ants can get WRECKED 🔪🧨⚰️💥

I’m pretty sure the lady who trained Koko was named Penny

This is one of my favorite episodes so far 😂

I just wanna say Thank you. I love this show, and I Appreciate it immensely.

it was kope and NOT Jane Goodall it was a hole other team

I was going to listen to this while I eat lunch, but on second thought I think I will wait until this evening 😅

I think everything experiences pain in some way, so I think the question being posited is more what feels pain in a way that is simmilar to ours. Because at the end of the day pain really is just a signal our body developed to notify us "Hey no this is bad stop touching this/being hurt if you can help it", so I think bugs probably feel pain in that broader definition. You could even say that machine learning programs have "pain", in the sense that they are given a score based on their performance, where gaining points encourages repeated behavior and losing points is basically telling the software "don't do this again it's bad for you", which is simmilar to what a pain signal accomplishes. ie: If you wanted to make a software that needs to preserve the integrity of a physical body it controls, you'd send a signal when it falls or get stabbed to tell it to avoid repeating this outcome, which is what pain is to us, I guess? The difference being that softwares are lacking the sentience to suffer from the pain, so should we rather ask ourselves if bugs (or the sheep) can suffer from pain? In which case I think we get stuck because what is suffering, how sentient/intelligent do you have to be to be capable of suffering? Wouldn't suffering be proportionate to the intelligence of the being that is suffering? In which case can even a bug and a computer suffer in their own way that we cannot comprehend?

I consider Taofledermaus a science channel, you should invite Jeff to the podcast.

Let's see how fast the Safety Third crew can teach a goat and a sheep english.

I think I finally figured out why I'm drawn to this podcast. You each represent my last few brain cells 😂

This might be the best episode. rolling on the floor laughing half the time!

i unironically enjoy the split conversations when the audio is split accordingly

28:50 there is an actual study on squirrels that unalive themselves via fast moving cars because they get depressed

the way the audio channels got swapped atleast twice by 30minutes bothers me 29:53 you can hear it

When they split the audio channels they should match them to the side of the screen the people are talking on, doing it backwards makes it even less useful 😅

Some great sound bytes from this one

18:15 A couple of years ago, I stepped on a rockfish, and it was the worst pain that I had ever experienced, However I still think that better than painlessly losing a single finger.

Whats easier 1 goat or 9 goats?

Listening to these guys is like listening to the robobrain scientists at Big MT in Fallout New Vegas

Re pain: I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

will they apologise to jane goodall in the next episode?

Does it stop eating count as killing itself? Or do physical changes count? Because fish get sad and mopey when you don't change their water often enough or overcrowd them. Or like keep a social fish alone or have like a ton of fish and one social fish that is the only one of its species in a tank. Also some fish will nip at other fishes fins and this can lead to the bullied fish dying because it just can't.

can you make it more obvious of who your guests are?

I introduced my friends to this podcast with this episode. I don't have friends anymore.

This episode made me backtrack I have to be honest. Out of all the episodes to show my Mom…

omg I was not prepared for when you split the audio

the split audio was awesome 😂😂

stereo is back hell yeah

I'm worried about Nigel in William's basement after today's episode...

bully /= suckable. Yup thats a solid line honestly

I've heard a cockroach scream when it was getting ate.

FENCES. You fence in your animals to restrict where you want them to graze. Humans have known and done this succesfully for at least 10 000 years. Goats climb things, they will wreck your trees and they are escapists. Goats come from mountainous areas and they were kept there because other domesticated animals can't traverse the landscape and are too picky eaters. Goats will try to eat anything that isn't a rock or dirt because you have to eat everything to survive in an area with that little vegetation. Sheep were breed to be as stupid as possible because then they're easier to handle and the farmer is always near to protect them. Goats weren't bred with that trait because mountainous areas had predators for much longer without the farmers always being around. So they kept enough intelligence and instinct that goats would run away from danger by themselves. Most animals, vegetables or fruits don't follow the rule of the strongest survivor anymore after humans have meddled with them for thousands of years. Including humans themselves.

The art piece you're thinking of at the end is called The Dream of The Fisherman's Wife. You're welcome.

After listening to this podcast on Spotify I got an Akron zoo ad.😂

This is might be the funniest one so far

My psychic condolences to the editor of this video. Also, of all the espisodes to have Stefannie on... 🧑‍🍳

Thanks so much for telling me about that music app I've now wasted too much on that app

Oh boy

That dolphin lived fast and died hard

Lmao just did taxes yesterday

this was Unhinged with a capital U, i love it

I know theyre anti manual labor, but some high intensity grazing techniques would knock the grass down with the sheep and goat.

this is like that fly episode of breaking bad