"Am I the only person who gets variability?" "Am I the only person who isn't tunneled every game?" "Am I the only person who doesnt just get Seal Team SWF wvery game?" This is exactly how I feel when engaging with the DBD community online. Do DBD players have memory problems?
@@UnanalyzedfishIt's a mixture between that and bad faith arguments. No one can fact check your personal experience so people exaggerate or make up whatever details they want.
this varies greatly on several factors. I can go 5-6 matches in a row getting tunneled, and then have others where the killer is trying to 12 hook. they dont have memory problems, it does happen. maybe not literally every game, but yea, it can happen for most of your matches. the game changes greatly depending on what time of day your playing, as well. its not secret 4am dbd is an experience in of itself. not to mention where your mmr is at can also affect the types of players you go against... personally, i get tunneled more when playing early morning than any other time bracket. weekends are brutal in general too.
I agree about liking meme videos more. I would rather watch Toeknee, farmer John and spooky loops than any of the comp players. Watching comp players dunk on killers with the same perks is boring
The problem with DBD content creators is they see everything through the narrow prism of being a content creator and/or a player with 5K+ hours approaching burnout. The game is mostly played by console players in solo queue, who don’t stream it. And I’m sure BHVR are happy with how it’s going, by and large, or else it would be noticeable to them that players are dropping overall and they need to change something.
I agree, this is also why I feel SBMM is overall a good thing for the game but because content creators are mostly affected negatively by this (because they're mostly better than average, they would definitely win more on average if there would be no SBMM) you get this hivemind where select content creators complain how they're not winning enough. They having the biggest voices creates this negative stigma around it even though it will help average players not getting stomped as hard and as much, which, turns out, are most people playing the game and is a good thing for the game overall.
@@Reakt00r Yeah. I can see both sides of this argument. I think the balance is having a low MMR pool for beginners and then you get to play in the big pool without any matchmaking at a certain point. (Which is kind of how it’s working now anyway haha). It’s more about player mentality anyway, which you can’t change easily. A high MMR killer can still play for fun and chill out, but most don’t. A high MMR survivor is likely to be in solo queue and if they always play for fun with meme builds you get stomped because you have no control over who your teammates are and what the killer is playing like. I think the game mainly needs incentives for killer players to play in a style that’s more fun for everyone - and the anti-camping thing definitely helped there IMO.
@@ribdiddle Thats were i first heard it too and it made me not listen to anything CoD players say. The way SBMM is tackled there is so black and white, really burned my brain cells.
tl;dr 1. If you don't want to try, play worse and accept the Ls. 2. Nobody plays exactly at their MMR in every situation, leading to inherent variability across games. 3. There should definitely be a ranked+unranked mode to help people understand the type of game they are entering It is very difficult for me to take "SBMM bad" arguments in good faith. The idea that "No, I *definitely* don't care about stomping but I also want unbalanced games for some 'cadence' in my gameplay session" seems like people want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to pick and choose when they "are forced" to try with no consequences whatsoever. If you genuinely don't care about trying to play optimally, then just...don't...? Your MMR will drop, and you'll find players who also don't care (or you can have a competitive game against while not trying). Then, when you decide you want to play well, you will climb back up and start playing against players around your normal level. The idea that someone is holding a proverbial gun to your head "making" you sweat is dumb, and I have no reason to believe good players don't argue for this just to dunk on new players. Further, the take that "if two or more players' MMR are exactly equal, the game will absolutely be competitive" is laughable for anyone who has played any competitive game for more than a day. Beyond the absolute highest echelons of optimized play, matchups (both character and playstyle) play as big-if not greater-a role as skill in determining competitiveness of a single game. To toss out a hypothetical: let's say that against 90% of the killers in this game, I have a 2200 MMR from ample game experience and extra time studying the killers. However, against Twins and Sadako-two killers I rarely ever see-I haven't quite learned how to deal with them, so I have closer to a 1500 MMR and maybe my total MMR is closer to 2k. If everyone in my lobby is exactly 2k MRR, but it turns out the killer is playing Sadako, are we going to have a highly competitive game? Probably not. I will probably struggle, playing more like a 1500, and we will lose. Everybody is like this. Nobody plays exactly at their MMR in every conceivable situation against every conceivable playstyle. Coconut's first game against Hens and Co that Otz commentated is a perfect example of this. Hens is obviously very good at DBD, but Coconut's insane camera movement and general playstyle threw off the whole team and they made massive blunders throughout the first match. Clearly, they played below their "normal" level. The second game, the survivors adapted, Coconut also made some blunders, and the survivors came out victorious. Were the skills between both sides massively uneven? Not really. Both sides had their ups and downs, both sides won a game, and they were all clearly high-skilled players. The Chess Match featured a similar situation: Team Eternal started off the game clearly less knowledgable about the Chess playstyle and struggled to break the 3-gen at first. They are exceptionally talented, though, adapted quickly, and played closer to their "optimal" levels by the end of the match. That being said, there should absolutely be two queues if for no other reason than clarity of intent. If I'm playing League, DotA, CounterStrike, Tekken, or any other game with some sort of ranked ladder and I queue into that ladder, there is an expectation that at the very least something is on the line and everyone involved is *probably* playing to win at least in part. Meanwhile, if people want to dick around in unranked, they can absolutely do so since there is nothing on the line except ego. You can try a new character, strategy, build, deck, control layout, etc., and nobody cares unless you force yourself to care. Regardless of how lenient the current MMR system is (which I completely agree on Scott's take that this might be one of the most lenient SBMM systems I am personally familiar with), having a sort of gentleman's agreement that "this is ranked, and you should be trying to win" versus "this is unranked, people are just trying things out" going into the match can help temper expectations accordingly.
Good points. Although "I don't know how hard the other side is going to try until five minutes into the match" is definitely part of the concern in DBD, I have doubts whether two separate queues will do anything to that. If the only real difference between "casual" and "ranked" is in name alone, I think most people will still try to win in casual, or that people just won't play ranked. Already in the game there isn't much incentive to win besides ego or unless winning is a means to an end to complete one of the more straight forward challenges. Also, casual couldn't have zero matchmaking, there'd have to be something. The game as it is right now is the casual gamemode. Sometimes you stomp, sometimes you get stomped, sometimes you have close games. There is no downside to losing, and only minor upside to winning. It just kicks the can down the road and the complaints become "why is everyone trying so hard in casual?"
@@frb5237 Completely fair. Even in games where tryharding is more widely accepted (LoL, DotA, etc.), you'll still have people first-time a character/strategy in ranked or have high-level players drop into casuals, pick their main, and curb stomp beginners. There is unfortunately not much that can be done to solve every situation, because to your point everyone uses ranked or unranked queued for different things. And I also agree that people will still try to win in casual play or troll in ranked. But at the end of the day, the current experience involves going in with whatever expectations you have for the game ("I think DBD is a party game", "I think DBD is competitive", or something in between) and somehow expecting that 4 other random people magically agree with you just because. Even if it doesn't solve every case, ensuring that at least the *average* person in the queue agrees on what's happening would be a massive step in the right direction from my perspective. Re "there should still be matchmaking in casual play": agreed, and I think the way to typically solve that is to have a ranked MMR and an unranked MMR. If you go as hard in unranked as you do in ranked, there won't be much of a difference in your experience between the queues. But if you use unranked as a tool to either decompress, learn, or otherwise expand your horizons, your unranked MMR will reflect this drop in aptitude while your ranked MMR remains unaffected.
Like not knowing in the slightest way if its going to be a sweatfest or a memefest. I genuinly think the game would be more fun if you could sorta gauge what was gonna happen when you clicked "casual"
@@Doncroft1and? People still break laws despite laws being made. A separate and casual mode being made does the same thing as a law being made it sets the expectation for all participants.
@@williamcourtney3029laws don’t necessarily set expectations in the same way as video games do. For breaking a law you can be punished which makes people less likely to break those laws. For playing sweaty in a non-sweaty game mode you face no repercussions at all. Making it wayyyy more likely for people to do
Playing in a goofy way is great in theory but usually not fun in practice. At least in solo queue, I feel pressure to play at my best for my teammates because I don’t know if they want to play to win or not. Or I’ll get a killer with a super strong build/killer or a super unfun killer/playstyle. On top of all that there’s the toxicity. Sometimes it feels like you have to walk on eggshells because if you piss off your opponent you’ll get bled out and humped for four minutes.
The people who bleed you out for 4 minutes are the ones who are playing super sweaty and competitive and don't want you to have any fun. That's the point we're making, it all happens because people are stressed out and they lash out at casual players who are just having fun. They take it as an insult to them that you're not taking them as seriously as they take themselves in the game.
@@ass640 what I notice is that the players who bleed people out often are usually playing killers that are very bad (myers and freddy being the most common). I don't think it's that they're ultra-sweatlords who want to you to never have fun, they're just super stressed out and taking it out on anyone they can. imo they just need to step away from the game for a bit if they get that angry
Sometimes, and this is something that I have had happen on both sides, it's because the survivor is using an unhookable build, and keeps putting themselves where the killer can't get to a hook fast enough and they always wiggle out
@@Ben_of_Milam_Musicsounds like you’re speaking from your personal experience. In my own personal experience I have encountered killers who are clearly very skilled at the game and slug everyone within minutes of the match starting. Which isn’t inherently bad on its own. But then they just hover directly over survivors and wait for them to bleed out. Granted it doesn’t happen every game, but it does every now and then
I think sbmm is a necessary feature for games that fit the criteria of 1. Small team sizes 2. Games where characters can have different abilities or perks 3. Stakes to bad performance Something like COD or TF2 that often has a large amount of players in a server have less or no need for sbmm because it’s less often a single player can wipe the entire server, and there’s less pressure on every individual player subconsciously to preform on a larger team, especially when there’s less of a penalty to dying or screwing up, such as in dbd a lot of people roll their eyes at that one teammate that makes a bad decision or dies early, and in turn it also puts a lot of pressure on a killer to preform as the sole member of their side, but without sbmm it would have pretty low match quality and fun for either side due to skill gap between a small amount of players Games like Overwatch, DbD, Valorant, with higher stakes or resources shared between a team need sbmm at its core in my opinion for those reasons, there’s very little room for mistakes because each individual can have a massive impact on the outcome for either side. Another angle to look at it is how advanced one’s game knowledge/gamesense needs to be to keep up with other players, games with lower need for sbmm I think can thrive when the objectives and characters are simple and fun, TF2 has very simple objectives and low stakes, so you can have someone who’s new and someone who’s played for thousands of hours can have fun together because they are both trying to complete the same objective, without it being a large knowledge check difference with thinking about (and knowing, figuring out) what perks anybody on a team might be using, what order to complete objectives in, and being on the same page as everybody on their own team because at the end of the day they’re all trying to cap a point or push a cart
Yea Overwatch and DBD have a lot of skill you need, so they do need sbmm to a degree. Theres a big barrier to entry, this is the same for basically any moba as well. They all need a crazy amount of experience to understand well. And games like smite, which is a bit more niche, require the knowledge of mobas and the necessary mechanical skills to perform well. But mobas and overwatch are also way more competitive and they’re “symmetrical” games. As in, both sides have the same type and amount of resources. And the game is balanced generally, rather than having 2 completely different sides like DBD. So for me, i think dbd needs that leniency. Especially when it has so many RNG elements, which theyve tried to tone down, but its still there. Games that are truly competitive avoid RNG like the plague. Maps are entirely symmetrical, both teams have the same tools. So theoretically, whoever is better will win. You look at DBD, if you bring a hex totem it could be destroyed damn near immediately. Putting you at an immediate disadvantage, this is something that sbmm cant even account for its just pure RNG. Conversely, you can also get lucky and its the most hidden spot on an indoor map. DBD needs some level of openness to allow for more variance, as there are numerous elements that can cause you to have a bad time. It also has perks that completely counter or remove the effectiveness of other perks. And this is also pretty much RNG. In overwatch, if you being “countered” you can switch. In mobas, if you are getting killed by physical damage, you build physical defense. If the enemy team has too much cc, you build anti-cc items. Anti slow, anit crit. The enemy, likewise, can build items to play around what you do. DBD… cant do this. Or do anything close. Only a shift in playstyle which literally every game gives you the option to
4:18 It's sad, but simple. The reward is an ego-boost. A lot of the people playing this game (on either side by the way) get a kick out of dominating and humiliating the other side, and will do anything to get to that point. No matter how uneven they have to make the playing field, or how boring their play style and load-out is for themselves. All that matters is the self-validation at the end. It's also why these sorts of players tend to get super upset when things don't go their way for once. There's also the fact that the way this game is unfortunately designed lends itself to living out power fantasies - be it bullying a baby killer as a 4-man swf, or camping/tunneling out a bunch of uncoordinated solo-queue players as a high-tier killer. It is to put the opponent in a position where they are basically powerless, and some people revel in that. This is further supported by people who go out of their way to play as scummy as possible every single match, even if it means potentially not winning - because their goal is not to win, but quite simply to ruin the fun for others. You'd think I'd be exaggerating, but I've seen countless people on Steam who played exactly like that with over 100 pages of nothing but "-reps" (one guy had over 500 pages) on their profile who seem to be collecting them like badges of honor, with some even pointing that out on their description. Which very much implies they don't just occasionally sweat like that because they have to, but do it every single match since they enjoy it. Of course, this is by no means the average player, but I feel like DbD just attracts (and rewards) these sorts of people way more than most other games.
Spot on. That's not the average gamer on DBD but the way the game is right now, it absolutely attracts players like that and like you said even "rewards" them for playing a certain way.
@@theworldofmelvin4032 It wasn't one person. Thousands participated in the polls. And I'm 90% certain time of day was one of the factors people were quizzed on. If I'm somehow misremembering, I apologize. It was in one of his recent videos.
I think part of why games in general, including DbD have gotten sweatier is cause of content creators/streamers or the prospect of streaming. I remember I saw a post on the subreddit where someone did statistics on perk/build usage and it positively correlated with big content creators making videos about said perks/builds. Streaming has only popularized the competitive mindset more and more over the years as it’s gotten bigger. I truly think that’s a large reason as to why games have gotten so much sweatier the last decade. Your point about people getting better and figuring more out about the game definitely is also a huge part of it, if not the biggest reason
Crazy how people seem to always be in “sweaty lobbies” yet nobody ever admits to being the sweaty player Could it be that you’re actually evenly matched and it turns out you just don’t like the game when you’re not literally bullying people far worse than you? :0 :0 :0
Maybe because the matchmaking is terrible? When I just bought the game I was put against a P100 singularity with thousands of hours, I didn't even have 5 hours in the game. How about this game sucks balls?
@@XiaoLing-pu9st Okay who the hell even plays singularity, to such an extent that they are P100 ? There's like 3 of them, you should try playing lottery with such luck because that's some incredible odds. Also it's a straight up lie because new players are in a protected bracket especially when you have 5H into the game.
@@XiaoLing-pu9stWas your next game against a p100 nurse or did you play against someone more your speed. DBD mmr doesn’t put you at the lowest mmr when you start playing (idk why), but it should lower over time if you keep losing.
Tons of people act like this and people honestly believe them. I read a reddit post of someone who said they get tunneled "literally every game" They just leave the full story out and tell one part of it that fits their "argument" It's like expecting honest opinions from the Steam forums, people just have a bad game then rush to an outlet to whine in anger at that one bad game out of 10
I really enjoy CoconutRTS's gameplay videos but he probably has the worst takes as a creator of any community that I know of. That, together with the way he talks as if what he says is the way the entire community sees it and making it sound as facts (even if he doesn't mean to) just makes me skip all his ''rant'' videos now, there's no way for me to take them serious.
@@MrVIrginiaLUV Not at all. In almost every video, Scott says something like "I'm not the authority on this, it's just my opinion." Compare this to coconut making the insane claim that ONLY SWEAT VIDEOS GET VIEWS! THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY FEELS THIS WAY BECAUSE I SAID! It's fucking ridiculous, you're insane if you think they're at all comparable.
I am actually an example of this not being true. I'm a P100 SM main, you would not believe how many of those goofy +rep messages I have because people actually enjoyed playing against me because I go out of my way to not tunnel, camp, slug, or most importantly, 3 gen. I literally did the impossible, I made some people have fun with a SM match. Every game, even if the Survivors are sweaty, I still just have fun, I chase whoever I see, I hard commit to chase instead of dropping because "uhm according to my calculations if I take a chase over 45 seconds long my generator progress will exceed my ability to effectively regress them" and I still get an average of 2 kills and around 8-10 hooks a game. People play sweaty because they want to win. It's as simple as that, you can take the most casual game, or even a single player game like Skyrim, guess what some people do in Skyrim? They use an exploit to give their gloves +105386% One Handed Damage because they want to steamroll things. If you aren't obsessed with winning, you won't get sweaty matches. Simple as that.
im pretty similar as an experienced player i never try to tunnel camp slug etc. unless absolutely nesessary, i still get at least 2 or more sacrifices every game
Scott is bang on here. He highlights everything I disagreed with in Coconut's video. I see a ton of variation in my matches every day I play, and I don't see a decline in either players or content creators.
Games become more sweatier cause people prefer winning over losing, before mmr playing was chiller because you were winning easily, and get stomp sometimes. Now when mmr in game, winning is harder and players adapt to it by bringing best items and perks
SBMM will make any game more competitive. Remember the OG call of duty games? Up till about BO4 it was more or less no SBMM, and yeah some games were sweatier than others, but the majority of games you could just play casually. Same goes for DBD right now, you get your MMR up, almost every game will be sweaty.
@@infernape-va-official8493SBMM was first realized until Advance Warface. SBMM wasn't as tight as it was today. It was very loose back in the day, and that's why we were able to use any gun we wanted and still have a good time, but that's dead now. Unless you use a competitive gun, you're not having gun.
It was glorious but it felt like there was a little sbmm at least I didn’t rot starr seeing people w gold & diamond guns until I got a few so I think that says something but at the same time it never felt like my lobbies were an upward slope of better players more like a big zig zag lol
@@vpawnvfianeh2663 this person is correct. SBMM didn't become as heavy handed until COD: AW. And then it got more refined after, this was also one of the times that "reverse boosting" (something more popular now than it was back in AW) became prominent during the new SBMM changes made for Advanced Warfare.
Coconut is a professional yapper. Normally dont watch react content, but i wasn't going to watch his video anyway, so ill give you the view to hear your insights.
I'd never seen any of his videos until very recently, and the dude straight word vomits a lot of nonsense with a very distinct air of superiority and confidence. It's pretty crazy to watch him pretend that the only content that gets views is hardcore sweaty streaking when Ayrun and JRM exist.
@@gamma626 he did a twins video which was just straight up stealing all of lynxi's video when she's a smaller content creator all the while mispronouncing her name and it felt very scummy and disrespectful and left a bad taste in my mouth. She needs all the views and support she can get atm like she just got diagnosed with cancer and coconut didn't add anything to the discussion just literally showed her whole video like if you're gonna steal from a content creator at least bother to learn to pronounce her name first
It's funny you put this out. Yesterday I was streaming and mind you, I don't play sweaty like at all. I'll go into my killer games not going for kills or hooks but for BP. That's my only goal. The team I went against beat me. I only got a 1k and I got destroyed by them, but then they started to make fun of me post game because I was streaming and I lost. Like bro, I don't care about winning. My title was literally 0 MMR, 0 hours, worse plays.
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYNidk, i had a survivor trash talk me once bcos i lost (it was like my fifth game of killer ever) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ some people are just rude
@@Timothee_Chalamet_CMBYN You probably don't play killer. People often talk shit simply because they beat you and then they want to bait your salt out
Rainbow Six Siege recently attempted to solve the issue of high ranked players being in a separate "bubble" of play, for R6 it was allegedly because the top players only played against the same people all the time, and had no variability. This led to ranked 2.0, which was one of the worst decisions I've ever experienced in a competitive game. They basically did the same thing that DBD did with SBMM, hidden MMR, and meaningless ranks, except in a much more competitive game. Because of this, and the fact that the matchmaking sucks in general, it is very common to be an average level player (gold-emerald or so) and be put up against diamonds and champs. While rank is no longer used for matchmaking, there is certainly a correlation between somebody that gets to champion in a season, and being MUCH better than somebody that gets to gold or plat. The issue is that you can't artificially increase playerbase skill; if you create a situation in which the top 100 players no longer only play against people that aren't anywhere near the top 100, they're going to be playing against people that are not ready or wanting to play a match of that caliber. I'm glad the #2500 ranked player in the world isn't playing against his usual rivals, but I'm not THAT good at the game. It was a miserable experience for me and my friends, and while that's an extreme example, less absurd (but still unbelievable) matchups happen at least once almost every night we play. Attempting to perfectly control something like matchmaking in a game is impossible, and it usually ends up causing more harm than good. There's too many factors that change every single match, and in order to try to control them, whether it be to have perfectly balanced matchmaking, or to achieve some other goal like variability, you HAVE to harm some portion of the playerbase in some way. Obviously there needs to be matchmaking that should attempt to be balanced in theory. By this, I mean that, under plain circumstances, it is balanced. The most clear example I can think of is just having ranks that are used for matchmaking and can be seen by everybody. You and your opponent are both in diamond, and why you're in diamond is completely unknown and different from person to person (whether it be personal skill, or a player getting carried, etc.) , but if one of the ranks is wildly innaccurate, it will correct itself over time and players will settle into where they're "supposed" to be.
In Malaysia or SEA in general, we constantly play against people that can hs you in an instant no matter how shit my performance is. SBMM or not, problem like this always present and with SBMM, at least my game slowly became more balance and I can actually have fun So, no, I do not like to go back to day of pub stomp (me stomping or not) and would love to fight people that is close to my rank
when he said DBD content creators focus on sweaty killstreaks and hardcore stuff i couldn't belive that he said that, I always see Otz and Spooky doing Meme builds
Thank you!!!!! No one ever talks about the opposite side of these “fun matches”. It’s drives me nuts. If you play to sweat that’s you. I don’t do it. I goof a lot. You don’t have a rank to justify the need to sweat. You may lose some (cool it’s a game. Get over it) but you don’t make the community feel like they are comp playing every match. If everyone comes in with general etiquette everyone will enjoy more of their games. Internal mercy rules, discouraging strats that 90% of people hate etc is how you solve the issue. Not letting 6k hour players jump into 500 hour players lobbies. I will also say that I notice survivors doing meme goofy builds while the more prominent killer mains usually do streaks. I think realizing that changes how you look at these criticisms and some RU-vidrs opinions.
The whole "MMR is ruining DbD" thing always felt like an enormous case of negativity bias at work to me, at least from what I've played over the years, it always felt like absolutely nothing changed between SBMM and rank-based matchmaking. I either get decent teams or players I should have absolutely never been matched with. Honestly I think that if BHVR were to never reveal that SBMM is even a thing, I don't think community would react as negatively as it has been since it's introduction.
Im not a developer and my only "experience" of balancing and matchmaking is through games ive played myself, but I had a thought I wanted to throw out and see what others peoples opinions or critiques are, good and bad. If the SBMM being removed causes a scenario where new players are going to get stomped frequently and discourage them from playing, but higher skilled players get burnt out from a restricted MMR matchmaking causing those stressful matches, is there a middle ground that could be used? Something like, making beginners up to a certain MMR cap be matched with a more restrictive range, but after a certain MMR cap that range begins expanding to a wider range to allow for a better variety for more skilled players? Example could be: "If your MMR is 100 or less, you get paired with players within 5 points of your listed level, so if your MMR is 50, your range is 45-55. But if your MMR is between 101-200 you have a 10 point MMR range, example : Your MMR is 150, your matchmaking range is 140-160." Just spitballing here, but was curious to get thoughts about a more "fluid" or developing MMR skill system.❤
You solved some of the problem for those sweathy high mmr players that can't take any L, but now you ruining people that just want to have fun. I would love to play a close game and lose, saying ggwp at the end, than seeing a 160 MMR join my 140 MMR, clearly stomping my whole team cause i'm solo queueing, then get to next game and experience the same thing someone above you complain the exact same thing in r6 ranked 2.0
When I'm killer, I tend to play stupid. Even if I'm losing, I'll nod, I'll spin, I'll try sub-optimal builds. I dont play killer often, and I tend to let people have an escape so I'm probably lower MMR. When I'm survivor, I try not to be a detriment to the team as a solo-queuer, but you can bet your bloodpoints I'm probably running a silly build, or a gimmick. I nod at everyone, crane my character's neck in stupid positions, even at the killer (apparently teabags became toxic taboo, so I avoid that) If I'm going against a team, or a killer, that is very sweaty, I just tend to dissociate mentally from the match and try to move on as quickly as possible. On the rare occasions I play with someone else, I might take the game a little more seriously, but even that has its limits.
I know its none of my business but you mentioned the bacteria overgrowth issue you have. I have a friend that has it as well and at a time he was on the verge of commiting harakiri, he tried ketogenic diet and it improved so much for him he doesnt feel generally bad anymore. It's understandable to be an expensive kind of diet but it did wonders to him, despite being really hard to get used to. IDK if its a issue to you but just wanna help. Also, good takes.
i am depressed that the killer meta is so stale now. you could legit delete 90% of all killer perks and most killer players would not even notice any difference
it really does not. just test it out! you will find greater variety (which is not due to the good-heartedness of the survivors ofc, they just have more good stuff to choose from and more opportunity for goofy builds)@@Antarctide
What do you mean "now". We've always had a stale meta for both sides. Before this we had gen kick meta, Ruin with Undying, Old Ruin with Pop for killers. For survivors it was mostly old Dead Hard , DS, Borrowed Time and whichever perk that was good at the time, like Spine Chill, Circle of Healing, adrenaline, ect. It's always been stale it's just been the perks that has changed. That said I still need we need another perk overhaul, one that makes bad perks good and tone down the really good ones.
He makes a few good points about individual player experience but the doom and gloom about players leaving over stressful matches reads as being an alarmist for clicks. I wish we could talk about improving the matchmaking system without turning it into a boogeyman. We cant just delete SBMM and go back to emblems now.
Maybe for the "How fun was your game" score we give, each week they can tally up what your team and opponent put on average and give you extra bloodpoints or smt maybe a badge thing like they do in LoL?
Wow, not sure if this was just me but there were so many bad and objectively wrong points made in Coconut's video that I just couldn't finish this. It was so frustrating to watch!! I think maybe there was an overall valid observation that the game can be really frustrating to a lot of players, but so many of his reasons were just incorrect...
@@browut644although it was more of the developers point, I personally don’t want to be put in a matchmaking system where I’m guaranteed to go against a weak team and a super strong team, I wouldn’t enjoy either one. I’d enjoy the one in the middle, where it’s actually evenly matched.
@@ricksanchez6766 that's what players THINK they want... until they actually experience it. Having every match be 1 to 1 evenly matched is guaranteed to be super stressful, since you are required to play at absolute peak performance just to break even. Mostly in the middle matches are good. Like say your arbitrary skill level number is 50. Matching only in a range of 45 and 55, every match is going to feel exactly the same while being too tight and too stressful , and matching in a range of 25 and 75 is far too loose and makes the arbitrary skill level number mostly pointless. However, matching in a range of 35 to 65 means you'll have a good mix of matches where you're not stomping but you're having an easier time, while still getting the tight ultra-sweaty tooth and nails matches, and getting matches where you're the underdog and fighting an uphill battle (and getting actual opportunities to learn and improve by playing against some better than you)
Yeah, it reminds me of what HealthyGamer has said in one of this more recent videos. Logic can be used to make any argument, including bad ones. He’s making logical statements, but that doesn’t mean they are true. They make sense, but they are not what’s really going on. As someone who used to play Destiny 2 pvp when there was no SBMM, it is ALWAYS better for a game with any sort of skill curve to match people of skill rather than not. Getting destroyed is never fun, and destroying others may be fun for people with insecurities about their own skills, but is very very boring for everyone adjusted to what they can do.
The truth is that only a few high tiers have the privilege of using fun/meme builds and not getting destroyed outright. Try using a fun build on a killer such as Legion or Dredge and you will lose every time, and survivors will sometimes even take advantage of it to taunt you.
Furthermore, you are facing four survivors. What are the chances they'll all not be running their best builds in preparation for the usual killer meta build? Unfortunately the state of the game calls for it. People don't really have mercy, you get the wrong idea from watching streamers.
that's how the algorithm works. keeps sending you the same stuff you just watched. look up some stupid stuff like shinobi Clown or MLG Freddy and you'll start getting meme videos recommended again
I like how that dev is against sbmm and says separating high and low skill players is discrimination, and that they could add handicap settings to enable lower skilled players to compete with higher skilled players, effectively leveling the playing filed, is the whole point of sbmm. Your games are going to feel the same. It doesn't matter if it's a shooter and it's sweat vs sweat one clipping each other, or a sweat/skilled player vs a casual/lower skilled player that has an aim or damage multiplier that allows them to kill the skilled/sweat just as quickly as someone of their skill level.
At 12:45 I gotta state, matchmaking prioritises “skill”, and “time it takes to find players”, but not “variability”. What this means is, if you play at peak dbd times (for wherever ur server is it might be different), you will find that most of your matches play the same, this is because the window in which “variability” occurs is smaller, since the matchmaking system can more easily find a player around your skill level. Conversely, during off peak times you will find that most of your matches are much more variable, as it is harder to find someone around your skill level, matchmaking takes longer and allows for a wider variable for what skill level to match you with. As another note, you can have some input on whether u want more “variety” in your games, the matchmaking incentive indicates which queue would take longer if you chose to play it, and a longer queue means more variability. Edit: I just wanted to post my personal idea I've always had for what I think to be "perfect matchmaking" for dbd. It is matchmaking based on time played, where there are 2 factors, "Total Time played" and "Recent Time played". the total time played could be hardcapped at lets say, 500 hours (just an example), and recent time played erodes fairly quickly (let's say, not playing for a month would erode this factor completely maybe), meaning the more you play, the further you are from people that don't play a lot. The way this calculates would need to be adjusted, to make sense for who should be within a matchmaking bracket with other players. I also think that the game should consider "matchmaking speed" over "fairness" and straight up, just matchmake with ANYBODY else, if you had to wait for a minute long. would love to hear people's criticisms of this idea.
I'd be interested to see map/killer bans implemented. IDV has a system in place where once you've reached a certain rank, in the lobby it will ask the survivors to vote on a killer ban for the match. Wouldn't work in DBD as-is for obvious reasons, but you could probably set up something based on that.
Like 70% of the perks are "If it's Tuesday and the 6th of the month with slightly cloudy weather, you get a 2% chance to unhook 1% of the time." 20% feel like what a perk should be. 10% are in every game on multiple survivors or basically mandatory for the killer. I don't feel like I see variance in that way. I have NEVER seen a chemical trap in the wild.
4:15 I don't get, what you don't get. DBD is inherently competitive. People enjoy winning... so evidently people will do what is best to win the match. Doesn't matter if you win something out of it or not. Especially since DBD doesn't have a ranked mode people will just try in the only mode that exists. This is literally a thing in every game. Hell even in COD where SBMM is arguably most talked about... people try their asses off lmfao and they get literally nothing out of it.
The question is why DBD has become more competitive over time. There is a very wide perception it used to be a more casual experience prior to MMR (or some other event around the same time).
I don't know if people just haven't played sports but even casual sports are competitive and anyone saying otherwise just has never played sports in any fashion in their entire lives. People LIKE winning, people LIKE competition, the issues arise when it's taken too far or enters a demeaning way or involves demeaning others. DBD, if we compare it to a sport in even the most basic sense, people don't like when you have people who literally aren't trying and purposefully self-scoring for the other team simply because they think it'd be funny, because there are also people there who are trying even a little bit and choosing to not try is disrespectful. In earnest DBD has always had terrible quality matches and that's been complained about, even by Scott probably years upon years ago and it maintains that same, stable reasoning: People need to want to go in with the expectation of wanting to play the game, but DBD's community is so toxic and dehumanizing that people don't even go in to try and play the game it's just to demean others or throw the match or seek revenge or whatever. Like a lot of players are actual children, or at least act that way, but it's kinda nuts how bad it's gotten that people just DC upon load in cause it's the game they booted up. It's like constantly throwing a pair of jeans on the floor cause it's the pair you don't want but then putting them on again to throw off again.
Put a ladder in the game and people will believe there is nothing more important than climbing it. DBD implemented SBMM in a great way, wide skill range, and breathing room at the top and hidden to prevent ladder anxiety, a ranked mode would ruin the game. We don't want thst because the game is currently the best DBD we had so far.
Yeah, it’s better to have close matches and a few extreme matches than having mostly extreme where you get 9 hooks at 5 gens or get 0 hooks against swf pros
There isn't even a chart for the variability in matches I get in DBD. Like you said, one game will be SWF Team 6, next are babies, and everything in between in any given match
stomping the other team is not a relief at all if we go with the heartbeat analogy: it's just boring as hell and shitty for the people on the recieving end. "Oh wow how relieving, I just took a lollipop from a toddler" said no one ever.
Actually hid the game in my library and uninstalled on the first day of the new season cause that's really how the game feels right now. The three games I played at survivor, solo queue issues, lack of communication, trolling teammates and hearty tunneling the worst link led to three games I knew I couldn't win no matter what build I ran, and then 3 games as killer I 4K'd 3 times in a row cause I just didn't even bother to try and care about other player's fun which led to: Abusing solo queue issues, basement, camping 33 meters away from hook, tunneling weakest link and not even bothering to think about how I was playing. Last season I at least tried to run fun builds and killers, even ones I didn't find fun to play, cause I wanted players to have fun, but when I just didn't do that it was the most boring and easy shit ever. DBD just feels like taking a candy from a baby if you actually play to win which feels so, so, so awful and boring for everyone involved and it's not all that hard to do so, especially when you can go harder than I did [Dredge, Artist twice, two killers I haven't touched in over a year] by just stapling on Nurse - Midwitch offering every match. I don't know if it's a community issue, a BHVR game design issue, or what but you hit the nail on the head, it's like a cycle of the most boring ways to play a game ever.
Interestingly - I've said before that the variability is sometimes actually a cause for problems in dbd. If I, as a killer main, don't want to get absolutely fucked by the next comp-tier SWF I run into, then I have to start every single match assuming that the survivors are a comp-tier SWF, and play sweaty /until/ they prove that they're not playing at that level. Because if I don't, and I relax and dick around and take meme builds and stuff, then I don't stand a chance when I do run into the hardcore SWFs out there. Also though, I think you're right Scott that much of what was discussed isn't very applicable to DBD really. I think something that's being misunderstood or mischaracterized though, and it's a really interesting outcome from SBMM.... is that actually if you look at a very top-tier killer, and they one day just permanently decide to just play only meme builds and relax and have fun... then their ranking will eventually adjust, and they'll end up playing matches where they win JUST as often as they did before when they were still playing out of their mind to try and win every match. A secondary side effect of this, is that if a killer /like twins/ gets their slugging build hard nerfed, but a player is set on continuing to slug, then after a few dozen matches of getting wrecked by survivors, they may begin to feel as if they've started to 'adjust' to the nerfs, because they'll start slowly getting better results again. But in reality, their ranking has sunk and they're now playing against weaker survivors, and eventually it'll balance out and they'll have an experience exactly equal to what they had before, only against worse players. It almost makes nerfs that attempt to force a playstyle change not.... work? (If they're done by minor buffs/nerfs, rather than by outright making the build/mechanic completely dysfunctional)
First version of SBMM was actually what they are talking about. Super strict and most people hated it, queue times hell too. Current version is kinda similar to rank system, not so much, but there is definetly a random aspect.
Thing is, they fixed what wasn’t broken. The game went hella more comp when we introduced mmr solely because of how matchmaking was changed to this system. If we want a more “rank based” matchmaking system, why fine-tune it “like” old matchmaking when we could just fucking use the old matchmaking system? The games never seen as high a play count than BEFORE MMR was introduced…
@@Antarctide Dowsey waited like an hour just to get a tournament team, because he did a huge win streak with Twins. Match making that lets you wait so long seems really strict.
while playing valorant "unranked", it is really stress. I either get enemies that can headshot me from across the map the moment they see a pixel of me, or I can rush into someone shooting me with a machine gun while holding a knife without any scratch, it is only like 30% of my games that I can actually find some challenge to have fun it is seriously not fun without any proper rank
The community got new players as time went on, more specifically more players who care more to win than the game's release which when being a streamer and such, the audience tends to follow suit because of watching their favorite players, and learning how to play the game at higher levels.
I just want a "entity sweet release" button when getting slugged at 5 gens for 4k, and maybe a few perk reworks. Too many of them are just terrible, not necessarily meta buffs but at the very least QoL, for example: crouch + wait for prompt -> pebble, I know this is probably so because Deadhard + pebble interactions but yeah.
Yeah agreed, the game needs a dedicated perk focused patch every now and then. They keep adding more and more mediocre perks that just get tossed on the pile. A lot of perks can be saved with small number tweaks, or stipulations.
I think the reason why you have an incredible amount of variability in your games is because you are good enough to deal with all levels of skill within the softcap decently. Let's say that most plaerss will stay around the softcap or just raise their mmr slightly above it, and they will mostlikely experience way more equall or harder games than games that are a bit easier. If you decide the mmr past the soft cap into 10 parts for example with 1 being very close to the soft cap and 10 being the furthest away from it. So if you are a player at around 2 or 3 you are more just as likely to match into players from 4 to 10 as you are to match with players from 1 to 2. That means that 80% of your games are likely to be harder to play or balanced. Since you are probably at around 5 or likely higher, your chances of running into a game that is harder to win are much slimmer
I think part of the reason people play sweatier is because others talk about how sweaty people play to begin with. If I play killer and all I hear is how you HAVE to run pain res and the like to even last 1 minute in game, it's likely it might impact my view and make me think I HAVE to do the sweaty strats if I begin to lose too much.
9:32 Its not every game for sure but the last 10 times ive played about 4-5 of them have been 5 games in a row of me or someone in my friend group being tunneled/camped out very early on so we just stop playing dbd and do something else. Its not every game but does happen way too frequently.
When I logged on to call of duty back in the day. I was totally prepared to get absolutely slammed or to drop a nuke and it was fun. Now , EVERY SINGLE GAME I feel like I'm in a fuckin professional match
Eh, I don’t really like either slamming or getting slammed in games. I don’t like going against players who feel like they have no chance against me, and I definitely don’t like when it feels like I have no chance.
Ok, then play casually. If you lose then your SBMM score lowers, and eventually it'll lower to a point where you can win even when playing casually. Where's the issue?
This is because you're a tryhard. But it's not socially "cool" to play to win in your social circles, and thus need to concoct a narrative where you're the victim. Scott's community, in general, mocks people who say they enjoy playing to win, so there's social pressure to pretend you don't care about it. In other communities, like tru3's, it's the opposite.
Scott i really love you for sharing your opinion somehow you are always so on point whenever i disagreed with you, after a video i knew better thanks to you
My issue with SBMM is the lack of a competitive spirit among solos. Back when there was a clear win condition and visible ranks, we all had something to play for. There was a sense or pride getting to red ranks. And once you hit R1, it was so easy to drop rank. You had to perform well to stay there. Today, when youre a solo, you know your 'team' couldnt give 2 craps about playing well. They have no issue quitting or dying on hook. They won't make saves, they wont sweat. The issue they had was figuring out how to set win and loss conditions. But for 5+ years ive had the answer: the numher or survivors who escape your match dictates everyones mmr win or loss. 2 die and 2 survive is a tiny mmr bump for suvivors, 3 out is a big bump for survivors, 1 is loss for survivors. With this system, the individual is less important than the group. Solos will bodyblock and risk their lives. And players can take the hook to help others escape. Truly the perfect system. Killers already had the perfect rank system - based on kills.
DBD has kinda failed to reward altruism and has made it far harder each update for years now. You really covered the fact that MMR for survivor just doesn't work because you either win all or lose all, but it's made worse by the fact that BHVR has done basically nothing against camping and tunneling, two strats that literally require teamwork and altruism to beat, even though they keep trying to staple bandaids onto a bullet wound of an issue. You also didn't have to perform well to reach Iri ranks, that's largley a misnomer, it was just a time investment, but the fact that players had something to invest time towards that wasn't an endless grind and / or bloodpoints absolutely did encourage players to do MORE things per match than right now. Like to get to Iri 1 basically anyone could do it as long as you spent enough time and wasted enough times doing things like going for saves or doing gens or burning through totems, things that encouraged survivors to interact more with the game, but since emblems mean absolutely nothing now all players want is to escape and move on to the next game or die instantly and move on because even spending the time to HEAL SOMEONE after unhook is just too much when the killer is going to immediately come back to hook anyways before you can even finish the heal, and the game will be over before you ever see that potential NOED procc, let alone how useless keys and even Toolboxes feel when you can equip an autoheal syringe or abuse the crap out of Background Player for more fun. Matchmaking has ALWAYS sucked but even casual players now have no real want to waste time or interact more with the game when the only real thing they're trying to do is the "Drop a single pallet in chase" or "Vault a single window in chase" or "Get Red Herring value, a thing no one alive has ever done ever in the existence of all of human history" so they can grind the battle pass to the one cosmetic they want.
I just wish that sweaty killer gameplay required people to be good at the game. Tunneling/Camping allows people to play sweaty without learning macro gameplay, without learning loops, etc. If I got stomped by a player that was skilled, I’d love it. But stomped by a player that’s showing that you need 0 skill to win? That’s depressing. That’s why I like games like Valorant. I’m not going to get stomped by my opponent unless they are simply more skilled than I am at the game.
I feel like I have variability in my matches, but they fall at the extreme ends. From the survivor side we get stomped by a killer who plays really sweaty, which may or may not include camping or tunneling, or we go against the killer that seems like they just installed the game. I very rarely feel like my matches are even whether I play killer or survivor, I just wish I had more middle ground normal games.
The Community Cup wasn't just broken up "after 3 weeks", there's been 8 Community Cup matches officially endorsed by BHVR, they're on Battlefy which is also where the first matching was put together in Nov 2022. You're more of a casual player so it's not really something you'd be looking for in the first place, but I am glad you see variability in your matches.
He’s a casual player? As a content creator he uses DBD to pay his bills. Hes the most removed from “casual” that you’ll see. Better than average at both roles with deep knowledge on the game. What is your point?
@@axelvidal752 He's not a comp player, the alternative is casual player, that doesn't detract from his skill level. The point is that since he isn't a comp player, he of course isn't going to know there was more official BHVR endorsed tournaments because why would he be looking for them? .. What was your point exactly?
Hens: "I'm tired of playing against babies, MMR needs to be more strict!" Choy: "SBMM has ruined the game, every match feels the same now." OnePumpWillie (streaking with Disco-Nurse's-M&A-Thana): "Matchmaking is very very loose, that's why so many people DC." CoconutsRTS: "MMR is making games sweatier and sweatier." I'm amazed that all four of these players can take the game seriously in their own way and have such drastically different opinions on the matchmaking. It really does seem to be that some are stuck in a fabled past that's more a reflection of their own mental state than the game itself.
The MMR just doesn't work and region differences explain a lot more than anything. Survivors only gain when they escape, killers can actually go neutral and positive. Hens is in a low player region of DBD and that, in turn, means that the matchmaking system that favors speed above all else will drastically widen it's bracket to insanity so he can even play, this leads to him playing against the newest of new players. Willie is also right because that's, again, all the system cares about. Choy and RTS are the ones who have the least correct view of what is even happening honestly, because in reality the system isn't strict at all and it's also not why the matches are more "Sweaty" now, that all has to do with the playerbase getting better and so many perks / killers being designed in a drastically unfun way for most players, with perks like Background Player being pretty rage inducing after it got buffed [Despite already being pretty good but not too abuseable] and others are just straight useless ala Teamwork perks.
I agree with your thoughts here, so much so that I don’t even think it’s an opinion, I just think you’re right as my experience has been the same. Idk what my mmr is but i do know i get a good mix of players that are better, worse and just as good as me. Now here is my take on why so many people don’t see things this way: As you said people prefer winning over losing, so the losses tend to stick in your mind more than the wins. Couple that with the fact that most people that play dbd, most people being kids and young adults that aren’t very far removed from being a kid, are used to getting what they want these days so when that happens it’s no big deal but when they don’t get what they want it is a big deal and what ensues is what we’ve been seeing for the past however many years, the inability or unwillingness to perceive the variability that is present in the games matchmaking due to ego.
i feel like matches have gotten sweatier because 9 times outta 10 if you dont tunnel someone out or have insane slugging pressure, the survivors will just breeze through gens. and its not like the survivors are try harding, they’re just doing the main objective, but it feels like bs to a killer when 3 gens get popped while ur chasing someone
Maybe getting less varied matches has something to do with the region you play in too. I remember when i was staying in US years back and playing Team Fortress, I was dominating, it felt like there were more noobs because I guess much higher population. Going back to Australia where playerbases are much smaller and only nerd gamers play, the competition is much tougher. In DBD almost all matches are sweaty in my region. You occasionally will get a bloodpoint farmer 1 in every 30 matches but generally everyone is playing their hardest to win. Using the strongest perks and whatever cheese strategy is available.
The software of a ranked MMR system doesn't care in the individual person knows what their rank is so waving off Dead By Daylight being a ranked game off of the simple basis of "I can't see my rank" is pretty ridiculous. Honestly its just a difficult question to answer and it stems from the fact that there is an MMR system without allowing the player to opt out (or at the very least opt into a more/less strict version of the system). Most other popular games with any sort of MMR system have specific playlists for ranked and casual modes and Dead By Daylight just.. doesn't. Regardless of whether or not you personally know what your MMR is you *are* locked into the MMR system, you either play under the MMR system or you don't play at all and those are your only two options. By that logic I would personally categorize Dead By Daylight as a Ranked game, even if the ranks amount to A B C and D (since there are realistically only 4 ranked brackets).
I think MMR was silently changed about two days ago. I dont know. Every game feels different. The range of skill of both killers and survivors fluctuates widely and if i get blown out in 1 game the next is a cake walk.
Finally someone who says what I think. I feel like everyone is complaining about sbmm, tunelling, caming and slugging all the time, and my experience is not like that at all. It's rare for me to see those, and my games vary between easy and relaxed to challenging a lot. Getting tired of the game is just normal, and if people play sweaty it's for their ego.
14:25 I wasn't "bored of the game" I was "fed-up with the player base". While it was true that I wasn't getting face camping or tunneling Killer every, single, Survivor game I was getting them far too often, somewhere in the range of every third game but sometimes multiple in a row then going without having one for a handful of games then getting more and so on. And while I wasn't getting toxic Survivors every single match as Killer I was getting far too many people who would t-bag at dropped pallets or wait at the exit gate instead of leaving after they'd won or any other sorts of "bad manners" that I, personally, had problems with but I know other people, including Scott, don't have problems with. It just so happened that my problems with the game got worse when the new match-matching went live, but that is correlation not causation. That said I'm just going to have to disagree with you Scott, in that people can legit leave the game not because they "are bored" with it but because they feel it has become not-fun due to the changes made, be it new Perks or over present Killers or just their most common sort of opponent. Yes "getting bored" is a valid reason to stop playing but I think it is not fair to exclude other reasons out of hand. ...And then you say it's about content creators in particular. Welp, not going to erase all this that I typed up. 16:25 And yeah, this is another thing. Everyone has their own personal experiences with the game. You get a lot of variability while other people do not. I can only speak for my own experiences when I played and while it wasn't comp team after comp team after comp team when I played as Killer I'd more often than not have pretty good games with some good back and forth with the occasional easy ride or "unwinnable" match. As Survivor I more often than not had really bad games, either because of a camping slash tunneling killer or simply because I wasn't that skilled in the role and would be out matched while at the same time not be given the chance to improve because of the afore mentioned players that _didn't play the game_ and just sat watching the first person they cased get a spider hug. 24:04 He wasn't that it was. He was saying that people do it in _other_ game modes but _shouldn't_ be doing it in 'for fun' game mode. 26:40 Ranked, all the way, because there isn't a mode without M.M.R., or at least it's not one of the main game mods. Even if you can't see the rank does not mean it is not there. Once you know about M.M.R. you know you are being ranked, just not shown your rank. I DO agree with Scott that that unseen rank doesn't matter because it is not seen but just because we can't see it doesn't mean it is not there nor that some people will care about it. For some reason. Thanks for the video Scott.
No, in DBD we have play and exit while in halo we have ranked and unranked playlists. It’d be nice to have the option to turn off SBMM in DBD, but that’s frankly not the case.
I think I read somewhere that the game gives you “easier” matches the first two times per day, to encourage you to play more. This tends to track, for me. Especially when playing as killer.
@@FabricatedPheonix Hmm. I generally find my lobbies are low prestige’s (I know that doesn’t mean much exactly) for the first few games, especially on a killer I haven’t played in ages, then by game 3 they’re mostly above prestige 10.
16:25 I also experience an absolute rollercoaster in terms of matchmaking quality, baby survivors and sweaty players are thrown at me interchangeably. I just wish I knew whether a lobby was closely matched or a clown show
The current version of SBMM we have right now is god damn awful, yeah it has variability sure but it's so boring and unfair most of the times it's like endless cutscene, one match = you stomp baby killer , very next match you got sweaty killer with full meta with baby survs on your team and ofc you gonna lose, next match or match after you got killer with like 800hrs to stomp again and so on. Most matches you are getting baby survs in team against the sweaty killer with full meta which is awful OR you get good teammates against baby killer who will get 1 hook stage and probably delete the game afterwards and who is it good for? It is unhealthy for the game and unfair, MM should have variability I agree but when it's that loose and random it's just trash.
I'm at 5:20 at the moment My Take is: The reason why people getting feeling like the overlying problem is SBMM in equated and they keep doing complete overhaul changes to the game; AKA: Killer, Perks, Core gameplay mechanics (Generator times/Regression/etc) along with Survivor healing Speeds, Survivor perks because they changes so much away from what It originally was both sides just feels more and more entitled/powerless each time so they get sweatier thinking the only way to win is just bringing strongest shit and baking in their sweat
i'm only a few minutes in, but i want to point out how tired the "everyone /has/ to play sweatier in the mmr system!" argument is. if we all agree that the higher your mmr goes, the less fun matches you get because it's all the harder you have to play to keep up with your opponents, then isn't your reward for doing so... an uptick in your invisible, impossible to track in-game "rank points" and harder matches? dead by daylight offers no reward for your mmr bracket, ever. so why not just play what you want, and sometimes lose? i've just had such a hard time hearing that whole "i /have/ to keep playing meta so i can climb the bracket to play meta more!" thing repeated so often
Because the game promotes the feeling of fun by winning the match. I don't mind losing matches but getting my ass blown out 3 games in a row just isn't fun, even with the mindset I'm just goofing around. A lot of times if you're running a fun meme build, in order for the build to work you still have to keep a winning momentum for some portion of the game, if you get your shit pushed in all game you don't even get to experience the fun of running your own build. It's almost like there's a restriction of enjoyment around your setup that requires you to be winning at some point in the game, which most times you have to really dial in and start trying to get going, which then takes away the "I'm just going to have fun" mentality. It's just a vicious cycle. Anyone who's focused on climbing the MMR ladder is likely going to sweat anyway, it's their own doing that made them not have fun
@sliceofspice6028 Yeah, if you have lowered your MMR 3 times and are still getting punked on your 4th game, that's a skill issue. Genuinely, it makes the games easier, the more you lose. I can't remember a time I outright lost 3 times in a row.
@@sliceofspice6028 i think your point is a good one, but honestly i think it would do a lot of players well to look less at the result of the match and more about the leadup to that point. i have had many 7-8 hook games in my time playing dbd which result in a 4 man out -- going by the current system, landslide defeats. however, a lot of the time i still have fun in the individual interactions within the match, and that can oftentimes be a result of playing specifically around some silly thing that i'm trying to make happen with a weird perk setup. i completely agree that when it feels like you're not even a player in the match, dbd can be uniquely frustrating in a way almost no other game can be, for a million reasons that can vary from match to match.
because if i'm playing for fun and the survivors aren't playing for fun, then i'm not having fun nor winning. and the cherry on top is when they act toxic too. you get all the stress with none of the relief. it's a net negative dopamine reaction for your brain.
Yeah my variability is all over the place too, with most of my games as killer being really chill even without regression builds. My survivor games are just as mixed but lean toward a 3-4k in duo queue (which is honestly my fault most of the time, my chases as survivor are garbage and this meta heavily punishes bad chases). I find most of my stress with DbD comes from my own self-imposed expectations after thousands of hours of playing (and controller code shit) rather than SBMM being what it is.
As a survivor I have always felt sacrificing my self to ensure the teams escape was always a win for me in my mind. The mmr should track how much work you did in the trial and be modified by escape or death were the escape gets you more but a death wont be completely negative if you did enough gens and chase time with the killer, and healing and saving other survivors, etc.
I, personally, think the map offerings should just be switched to realm/map bans. I think that fits better lore-wise, I think it'd make matchmaking a nicer experience for both sides (even with 4 offerings on one side and one on the other), and I think it'd be useful to the devs if they decided to pay attention to which maps got banned the most. I also think it's not a bad idea to look into offerings to ban certain killers and perks from your cue for survivors and killers respectively - not as an actual change, but as limited-time alternate queues so the devs could more accurately suss out community feelings on outliers in their data, given that un-stratified data is most of their decision-making foundation.
If i remember right , the dev posted this ages ago and it was because people are tired of cod because it’s casual queue at the time was way too tight, akin to the first version of dbd SBMM. And this entire twitter rant, I believe was in favor of making it more loose to create more variability and make it more fun for the casual audience.
From an Apex perspective, both ranked and unranked use MMR and they feel different in the way players play them due to the desire to increase rp gains by living longer, whereas pubs is a meat grinder. So they are both “ranked” under the hood but seeing that number in the corner really does change the experience.
