Hey dude, Brian Fehdrau here, lead programmer on the game, just doing that thing they tell you not to do and googling myself and the things I've worked on on the internet. I wanted to say thanks for your very thoughtful and earnest review of our game. It always amazes me how people still think about and play a game I worked on 30 years ago. As always, I'm happy to hear that someone got something more out of the game than just a momentary distraction from their homework. :) Cheers!
I love that game but one thing: the f***ing dark woods... it took me years to figure out that you have to follow the owls... one little hint would have been the world for me
@@benwer6865 I can't guarantee it, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that was in the manual or at least the strategy guide. But yeah, the industry wasn't so good at focus testing back then. These days you'd sit people down to play the game and watch from remote to see where they get stuck, but our focus groups were done with us in the room and you get a false sense of "good enough" if you can be there to give them hints.
I don not think Evermore is inferior to Mana. In fact I think the mechanics of the game are refined over mana in almost every way. I also believe Evermore has aged far better than mana. The use of atmospheric sound effects for example. Evermore uses actual sound samples for water, crowds of people etc. While mana uses white noise for waterfall sound effects. And the alchemy system and ingredient looting is more complex than simple MP. The ring menu is faster with no input delay. Mana, however, is better in other ways. Mana is longer, has a bigger map and more weapons, more levels of charge attacks and magic evolves and changes as it levels up. Overall though, I just think Evermore has aged better. The use of atmospheric ambient sound in evermore gives it the edge in my book.
I like your balanced outlook. Most people don't seem to give SoE the chance it deserves. I like when people can acknowledge the strengths and weaknesses of something. No game is perfect, so why argue as much. I own Mana and I like Mana for different reasons, but even if the games are very similar, they're not the same. I also agree that Evermore has aged better. I do wish it was a smidge longer, though. Hopefully we'll see the game again someday. It's a title I revisit every year or so. Thanks for watching and the epic comment!
Idk, I believe SoE is bigger and harder. But yeah, the Magic in SoM is somewhat cooler because as strong and as powerful it gets, the better it becomes, not only in animation but in power as well. And it had literally a new boss every new place you'd get, more versions of that same enemy with stronger attacks and so on, but still, SoE doesn't seem as small/shorter then SoM. I honestly expected to meet more places and meet new locations after I finished SoM. And the SoM:Re didn't even try to add these new things, which is disappointing.
You guys know it's okay to like _both_ of them, right? 🙂 This sort of thing is why it made me mad when the marketing guys said "Hey can we add 'Secret of' to the name?" 🙄
There's two things in particular that makes Evermore substantially better for me: 1) you can change direction when running. The only thing nicer is mana let's you run longer, but only in wide straightaways. Evermore wins. 2) you can move at full speed while holding a charge attack. Charging is almost pointless in Mana unless it's a boss that goes off screen for a while. I guess Mana does have multi-player, which is cool, but it's hard to get anyone to play with you.
Spot on review for this classic gem. Didn't realize Soule was only 19 when he wrote the score - incredible. I still revisit the score often to this day as well. One thing which stood out for me when I played back after release was the profound sense of loneliness the game imparts on you from start to finish. You don't really have any allies but man's best friend, and the dog maze especially got me - the music and atmosphere are so sad as you wander around without even the protagonist there with you. One day I'd love to play back through this one - this time with a guide though ahaha.
You are right. The entire game is played with just the dog and player. Your party never grows in size. Even the people on Evermore that you are looking for do not belong there. Ebonkeep and Ivor Tower and incredibly eerie places.
Ow man, that part in Antiqua when you are alone, and your dog is in the city and you try to gather enough money for the trip there..... Loneliness to the max.... Even worse: holding the shoulder pads STILL made your dog sniff... As I was grinding and grinding I kept pressing them to hear my buddy again, because I missed him so bad... now THAT part was loneliness...
Thanks for watching. It's one of my favorites, too. I replay it every couple years or so. I feel like I am always discovering something new each time I play it.
is my favorite game of snes, i didnt get to play secret of mana, and i try it and didnt like it, I did love secret of evermore, I guess it has to do with nostalgia and first experiences
When I was a kid, we didn't get secret of mana. We got Secret of Evermore, just a timing thing. Man did I love Secret of Evermore. Played it constantly even had a playthrough where I farmed up enough currency to get spells way up strong. Hardball level 9 hits real hard. Not as hard as Crush though. Later on when I was in college and emulators started popping up I had my first try of Secret of Mana. Most likely because Secret of Evermore's combat was so much cleaner I got real frustrated with Secret of Mana and didn't finish it. It took me another 10 years before I finally got through Secret of Mana. Also with Evermore I felt like the weapon progression was just right on the grind. Then when I got to Mana and had all of these weapons to grind, and they keep going past level 3 I was like man, I felt accomplished doing this on SoE this just feels goofy. Long story short this is still one of my favorite games that I revisit from time to time. Only this and FFVI (even though it says FFIII on the cart) are my two most played through games from this timeframe. Chrono Trigger is a close third.
I like Secret of Evermore a lot. What surprises me about this is that I played Secret of Mana first. In fact, we owned Secret of Mana. SoE was a game that we only ever had the luxury of renting. I think I fell in love with it because it sort of reminded me of Back to the Future (i.e. a young guy who ends up out of place). I don't know exactly why I liked the game so much more.
My favorite game. Played this in 1996... A wonderful moment that this game give me. I was stucked in the forest for weeks... I remember drawing it in paper to see which path I didn't took, then when I reach the first boss and see there's was more forest ahead, I finally understood the trick to get out of it... The feeling that this game give us was very unique back in the day. The "presentation" made this game a masterpiece. You review was very good. Thank you.
I did the same thing. Too many games nowadays hold your hand and players are conditioned to give up too easily. I miss the days when games made you think a little bit. No waypoints, no quest trackers, just you and your brain.
Wish there was a sequel or a remake or just something with this. Definitely one of my favorite games, right there with Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy VI.
Happy to see someone give a positive review of this game. While the mazes can be annoying, they also provide the player an opportunity to slow down and soak in the environment. And I really like your point about the realism in that choice. I definitely wish more game devs would make bold moves in their design choices like this team had.
Even nowadays, I still search for the little hidden secrets in every game I play, if any at all, and yes.. I'm 33. I'm not as avid a Game player as I used to be, but when I do sit down and play. I take every..detail..seriously, and I enjoy making plenty of odd discoveries as the problem solving is half the battle, and the fun(also helps immensely with keeping everyday hand-eye motor skill coordination in-check). LOZ: Breath of the Wild (Nintendo Switch/WiiU), and FFVII-Remake (PS4/5 - on [June 10 2021])- are perfect examples of this. Whether playing a game with a recent/well-aged walkthrough for just a reference(i'd rather figure it out myself, but enjoy seeing how others attempts went in videos), or searching for that occasional "missed" hidden secret location or item the walkthroughs/playthroughs, or even the official guides forgot to mention(wow sometimes...). I'm on it like a fly to glue, and I have to thank my Gaming Mother (RIP)- for the universal skills she taught me that still apply to games of today(we never even considered bothering with guides back then). Played this particular Title when she was still alive, on the SNES she had Bought me at 5yrs old. Or maybe she bought it for herself too?-- as she would be on it sometimes when I wasn't, lol. xD Gee that brings back some awesome memories.........
I am very similar, but for me it was that I grew up without the internet. I did not have reliable access to internet until I was 18. By then, I had been made to complete so many games without help. The only guides I had were the occasional magazine with a snippit of information in it or a strategy guide. Thanks for sharing the memories :)
11:22 This is an excellent point. Really shrewd observation here. I loved these mazes as a young teen, even as they frustrated me. It was SO exciting to discover the way through.
Perhaps the most underrated game in the SNES library. It completely enthralled me as a kid, and having played games my entire life, I still long for a game that gives me the same feeling. I can't think of any that has so fully captured the feeling of being lost in a strange world. The music, ambient sound effects, maze-like area design, and hands-off exploration(even if the game was technically quite linear) is unmatched. There's a constantly surreal vibe to SoM, where you are never sure if something is a joke or serious. Games today are, in my opinion, too polished when it comes to delivering exploration, and too hesitant to confuse the player's sense of achievement. Everything has a reward and explanation. SoM, on the other hand, isn't afraid to give you plenty of dead-ends to throw off your expectations, making it so much more rewarding when you do stumble upon a secret. A shame this hasn't been ported to the Switch's SNES, or given a proper sequel.
Amazing review. Secret of Evermore is one of my favourite games of all time, jointly with Illusion of Time (Gaia in the USA). Here, in Spain, we goth both in a big box, translated to Spanish (which was something amazing at the time) and they both included a huge text book. They are some of the most expensive games to go after to nowadays.
Even as a kid I was drawn to history as a subject so this game was very special to me. One of my all time favorites, the atmosphere, visuals and soundtrack all come together to create something that feels unique to this day. It's a shame this has gotten a lot of hate over the years from Secret of Mana fans deriding it as both derivative and using it to project their disdain over never having received a localization of Seiken Densetsu 3.
Playing through this game now. I love it to peices! The engine or code feels like a better optimized and less buggy version of Mana's. The game had me in total when the jurrassic village chanted Fire Eyes, Fire Eyes, and this little girl with pigtails and glasses comes out and says "What?"
I just finished beating and playing this game. It has some problems but overall it gets an A+ from me. It's a game full of imagination and lots of cool stuff. I really liked it.
Another good video. Your editing skills are getting better and better. I don't remember getting to play Secret of Evermore much as a kid, I think it was because my two brothers hogged it each time it got rented from Blockbuster =)P I'm amused by the "Mana" series, it's quite possibly the most confusing naming convention ever. We got the first game as "Final Fantasy Adventure" on the Gameboy, then Secret of Mana on the SNES, (which branched into Secret of Evermore, as if "Secret" was the series' name) Then it goes back to Legend of Mana. All the while, in Japan, it's just the Seiken Densetsu series. It gets even more confusing if you include Europe, where "Final Fantasy Adventure" became "Mystic Quest". XD
I played tons of SNES games back in 90s, and SOE is up there as one of my top fav alongside CT, ALLTP, SOM and Lufia. This game has a unique setting and atmosphere, also a fantastic music. An ordinary boy and his dog getting lost in surreal world which includes a various period of civilization. A real escapism for me.
Wow man, looks like that review is not your first and you had plenty of past experience with reviews and video creation. Sad you not upload anymore, but as ex-youtuber I know how sometime that hobby/passion/work can be hard to maintain. Would be great to see you video once again about more modern topic (more click click i think) but that retro review keep me in place by 16 minutes! I beat that game 4 times and right now I watching awesome SoE randomizer - and here Im, watching 16 minute video that easy I could not watch because why? Great voice, great montage, outstanding script and points and notes about game. I gonna sub, because maybe one day you gonna upload something else :) (hope to not miss thumbnail amount my sub tab viewer). Thanks for that video and good luck whatever you doing right now Brock.
Hey thanks for your kind words. I have not forgotten about RU-vid. I had some stuff come up that sort of took me away from making videos. However, I'm not done and I know I'll be back at some point in the future when it's viable.
i freaking LOVE this game. i actually played this first before secret of mana and was like eh... this is ok. couldn’t put my finger on why secret of evermore was worlds better. i’ve never had to write down notes and draw maps because of difficult path navigation but that’s what drew me more into the game. what most might find too difficult and annoying, i found it more immersive and a greater sense of accomplishment once completed. definitely a classic gem for me 👍
I agree. I also think it helped that I was a kid, so I kind of had an unconditional love for everything. My mind was not yet judgemental of things and I had a hunger to figure things out for myself.
I'm sure this game is the game I remember the most from SNES. And for the comparison, secret of mana looked completely "Dry" or primitive in the role and ambient aspects.
I don't remember the Queen saying anything, but I do recall one of the guests at dinner saying something to the effect of the backsides of the bookcases being made of gold. I could be wrong, but I feel like what hint you're given is pretty vague and you might not even understand that what you're being told is important or just meaningless talk.
The alchemy system, instead of magic, was a bright idea, it makes money more useful and motivates to, to fight, in order to earn it and also get exp points, the best is that you have be wise and adapt to the limitation of slots and ingredients, such a shame, the game has not the success it deserves, we need a remake.
Have they patched a rom of this game with 2p Dog control? That would have gotten way more people into this one. Also, maybe jack up the ingredient drops.
@@BrockShake Yep. The Lunar Magic guy did in fact, a long time ago. Same person that created the editor for Super Mario World that allowed people to create rom hacks for the game.
Idk how relevant this will be to you since this is such an old video buuuuuuut~ I just recently found out that there is a Randomizer for the game. Adds a bit of a twist to the game, making finding those secrets an absolute must!
Hey, thanks! Sounds like we're in the same boat. I think Square-Enix stated that they want to make their entire catalog of games available digitally. We'll see.
@@BrockShake I hold onto hope they release said catalog in europe too and I'd happily buy Evermore again. Game has inspired me to get into writing, drawing and programming. Am also sitting in that boat with you both waiting for that sequel.
This was a game I never got into but would like to give another chance. I’m a little trepidatious about dungeons being maze-like. It’s one of my least favorite aspects of an RPG. I’ve recently dipped into the Etrian Odyssey games though and found that drawing your own map can actually be a very fun experience. The one time I tried playing Secret of Evermore I got to the first area and was very uninterested in the tribal area and theme. That was quite a few years ago though and I’ve become more open to trying new things.
Honestly, I say Secret of Evermore is one of the best games out there. It's just been an unfortunate victim of circumstance ever since its release. I don't doubt that if it was instead released today (as a download or something) it would have found much more of a following. I'd say that Evermore has slumps. The beginning isn't that interesting (but I do like the latter 2/3 of Prehistoria). Antiqua begins slowly, but again, I'd say I like the final 2/3 of it. Gothica is pretty much awesome all around (minus the mazes). Oddly enough, I'd say Omnitopia is the least imaginative, but that doesn't mean it's boring. I'd say play it. Use a guide for the mazes and enjoy the rest of it yourself. Problem solved.
it isn't as big as it makes you believe it is. that is it's magic. you can take your time pressing the search button on every corner, looking for ingredients. it's over far too soon.
Evermore was all about the atmosphere and the gameplay. The visuals and music were fantastic. The controls were solid and the alchemy system forced you to put a bit more effort in rather than just unloading your best spells at will. I think the reason that it doesn't stand up to Mana and RPGs of the time is that the story is weak and very poorly paced. Within the first 30-60 minutes of the game, you find out the entire plot including the main villain. Elizabeth explains the nature of the world the first time you meet her. There are no twists or surprises. The Boy doesn't develop as a character at all and no NPCs get enough screen time to be of interest. The Boy also starts out strangely confident and struts around the world like he owns the place. As you mentioned, being called "Secret of" didn't do Evermore any favors, as it was effectively forced to be compared to Mana. Other than some gameplay elements, the two games are nothing alike. Evermore is more of an Action/Adventure and not so much RPG. I was a teen when this came out, and RPGs back then were all about STORY and powering up your characters. Turn-based RPGs are what most people thought of when they heard the term RPG, but Mana had all the elements of a classic RPG with a new spin on the gameplay. Mana has a deeper story, a gradual pacing and characters that evolve across the game. Evermore is a very fun game to play, but I think if it wasn't marketed as "Secret of" with an implied spiritual successor to Mana, and also was considered an Action/Adventure rather than a straight RPG that it would have been more likely to be judged on its own merits and may have been more memorable to a larger audience. Also when it comes to SNES RPGs, I think that Terranigma blows Mana and Evermore out of the water in almost every single aspect. Evermore might get a slight edge on music since every track is perfect for the scene, but Terranigma sure has some bangers. If you're reading this and haven't played it, put it on your list!
oh the composer for the music is the same from the elder scrolls series. a true genius of the arts. so many games, like this one and secret of mana are pretty much carried by their soundtracks. I enjoyed this game, partly, but its also really tedious
14:00 - "one problem: it's over when it's over." BINGO. I remember looking forward to the Nintendo 64 and hoping that it would feature Secret of Evermore 2 with the same graphics and feel, but MUCH bigger.
I had an Xbox, the original and first one to be released, that had some sort of Super Nintendo Emulator on it with a few games. Two of them were SoM and the other one, SoE. And honestly, I loved both. Sadly, back in the day, I never had the opportunity to complete both games and recently I had decided to replay them again. I am currently starting my new game in SoE and, after completing SoM, the only similarities are literally on the gameplay itself at best. The characters, story, places and enemies are just as unique as you'd expect. And taking the chance to talk about the latest SoM:Re for PS4, I am honestly disappointed. And looking now, I don't want a SoE:Re if they plan on doing the same exact thing they did to SoM:Re. They literally didn't add anything new to the remake version, little improved a few things, the graphics and art style was very poor and it killed the original SoM vibe. If SoE is not getting a remake, I am fine with that for now. Maybe in a couple of years/decades, if they decide to bring back these old games, or idk maybe an new Game Designer student plans to Remake SoE, I hope they consider the possibility of making it just as great and as unique as the original one was, but with more locations and secrets (Adding new Bosses, maybe new characters, new game modes and so on).
I am right there with you. I preordered Secret of Mana (PS4) at Gamestop because I wanted to make sure I got a physical copy. To this day, I still have not completed the game. I just put it down. To me, SoM for PS4 feels like a phone or tablet quality game that was ported to PS4. It just feels low effort and, somehow, worse than the original. If SoE had to endure the same to get a remake, then yeah, no remake is a good thing. However, I do hope that, as Square continues to make old games available again, that they get around to adding SoE to some platform.
Wait? there was disdain for this game? Oh Disdain in USa... Love how the modern complains is how rpg's are to be played, explore and level up, it's okay if you don't like that but just don't play a rpg then.
