SEEING RED | Buffy The Vampire Slayer 6x19 | The Normies Group Reaction 

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Before The Red Wedding, there was a little show called Buffy and the episode is called Seeing Red.

I feel like Suraj could tell something was up as soon as he saw Amber Benson in the opening credits 🥶, but then he kept his suspicions to himself.

Classic Buffy - they go from laughing hysterically to sad AF within a few minutes.

Regarding the bathroom scene. Look at their prior relationship - fighting turning into sex has been at least half of their intimate encounters, they hit each other before jumping each other's bones more than once. When your play time has a history of starting with violence, you may not immediately realize that "this time the violence and saying no isn't actually foreplay." Their entire relationship has been toxic this season. This just went to a new level, with Spike realizing he'd crossed a line they hadn't crossed before. That's not an excuse, just an observation. They never had a safe word, they have violated consent before - remember invisible Buffy doing Spike by surprise? - Buffy has said she'd never touch him and then gone ahead and done just that. Be better in your own relationships than either Spike or Buffy in season 6.

I love spike but I can admit that this isn’t out of character. It’s been shown time and again that to spike violence and sex are one and the same especially with his history with slayers. To me it’s one of the most complex and devastating episodes of the season

Rana's tryinto gaslight us by saying Amber Benson has always been in the intro

When this first aired, it was widely discussed that this was indeed Amber Benson's first appearance in the opening credits. Many, if not most viewers noticed it, and then had the rug pulled out from under them at the end.

This is the only episode in which Amber Benson appears in the main credits.

On rewatch the only thing that I can always feel happy about in this episode is Andrew’s Jetpack Fail

People tend to forget spike is a demon with no soul, instead of love he acts from obsession

Remember when you were laughing about the jetpack? Good times.

Micky: I'm leaving the reactions Buffy 6x19: this is my parting gift

Yes, Amber Benson in the credits in this episode is classic Whedon. "Get comfy, because I'm about to rip out your innards."

This was the writers way of reminding the audience that Spike is still a soulless vampire. From what looks like love from his perspective is actually obsession as without a soul, he's incapable of love. Chris pretty much summed this up perfectly. I think that's the hardest I've ever seen y'all laugh during Andrew's jetpack fail LMFAO

Virtual hugs to the whole couch. The end of this season is dark and wild!!

Between her "Bloody Mary" joke about Spike's beverage choice and her comment about the nerds not having balls of their own (after they attained the orbs), Marketa was on fire during this reaction. 😆🤣❤ Heeeeeee.

The comments have been trying to remind you guys that Spike isn’t Angel. Spike has no soul. The only thing preventing him from feeding on humans is technology.

A lot of this is "more real". Not just a plain old gun being used to attack them, but also the SA. This show has had much worse SA than this in the past, but this scene was just so much closer to real life that it hits *much* harder...

"What the f*ck is this episode?" Exactly our thoughts for the past 20 years.

I think what people are missing with this episode is to remember how Spike and Buffy's sexual history started: with fighting that turned into sex. So for Spike he thinks that he can just recreate the magic again. But since Buffy was hurt they were not equals in this situation, and he couldn't see that because he lacks a soul (empathy) This also makes sense with how Spike understands relationships. As Buffy even put it: violence to Spike is like 3rd base.

Now that we've gotten to this point I need to share a story about my so-called "friend" who spoiled this episode's big surprise to me. She just casually dropped that Tara would die. I was shocked and appalled. "WHAT!? How can you spoil that for me!?" "It's no big deal; she just got shot." I've hated her forever for that!

I'd like to invite everyone to imagine the alternate timeline, where Johnathan introduced Andrew to his high school friend Larry, and the good trio was formed. They'd have worked hand in hand with the Scoobies.

People have overlooked (and the facilitated it deliberately) the difference between Spike and Angel. The chip preventing violence is different than actually having a conscience from possessing a soul). TheBuffyverse lore depicts that vampires are demon possessed corpses able to access the host’s memories using their old brains. When the host’s soul remains like with Angel he can then have awareness of the vampire’s actions as if it was his own memories. The fact that Spike even without a soul was able to show any trace of compassion, remorse, and personal growth is remarkable and suggests that he had something fundamentally different about himself (which is picked up upon subsequently in the Buffyverse.

You have to remember that Spike has no conscience. He has no soul telling him he's doing something bad, and Buffy has been using him for months. Their entire relationship was built on one or both of them saying no and then doing it anyway. You can see it on his face as soon as she kicks him off, he only just then realizes that she MEANS it this time. She didn't mean no when she said no any other time, so why would this time be different? It was an awful relationship built on grief and greed, and this is the tipping point. Spike realized he did something bad finally, and left.

I’ve been waiting for this episode since they started these reactions

First rule of Whedon shows If a character is happy, it wont last long

Chris: "Let's list all the evil things Warren has done. He built a robot ... He tried to mind control [Katrina] so that he and all the boys could have fun with her ..." Spidey: "And he didn't even plan to share her!!" 24:36

One of the scenes that made this show so timeless. 20 years later still as shocking and impactful. The red wedding before the red wedding and the beginning of an epic finale with Dark Rosenberg, iconic.

Andrew hitting his head with the jet pack takes me out every time

Yeah, this is the episode when the sh*t hits the fan. Suraj was right, this is the first time Amber Benson was in the intro. James Marsters hated doing that bathroom scene. It really got to him and he had to go through some therapy afterwards.

I know I hinted at this for most of the last couple months...but now its safe to say it, now that spoilers aren't a concern. Like I said before, Spike is more human, more 'himself' than most vampires because his personality is strong enough to push through the demon part of his nature...but at the end of the day...there IS a demon in him, and he has no soul...just the memories of the person he was in life. It's not enough to make him capable of real, selfless, human love. (Which...is hard enough for humans to accomplish, never mind undead beings fueled by the presence of a demon!) He is passionate, can try to be loyal, can be ferocious on someone's behalf...but he's basically a loaded weapon that can go off at any time for little reason. This episode is why I was pretty candid about S6 being the darkest Buffy season...and for those of us who love Spike as a character...it was extra exhausting and painful to see this episode. As for losing Tara...just when it couldn't seem worse...worse comes and sets up shop.

"WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS EPISODE?!" Yeah, this is the Red Wedding of the Buffy series. Been waiting YEARS to see this reaction and it wasn't disappointing. It was interesting seeing how quickly each of them caught on that Tara was out there catching strays. But yeah, SLOW BURN!!! Been a pretty tame season with the Big Bad. Hmmm, I wonder why that is....CAUSE WILLOW IS THE BIG BAD!!!!

Remember Spike is still evil he has no soul he is like a rabid dog with a mussel. he is trying to fight his evil impulses but at the end of the day he is still a vampire a MONSTER with no soul. Even the writer of this episode said that they went to fair with spike this episode.

Rana: "This is season 6, episode 19, Seeing Red... and that doesn't sound good honestly." Congratulations, you're a prophet.

Well, we finally made it. Buffy's Red Wedding. Every single time you guys have said "I couldn't hate the nerds more", we've all been like "Oooh, just wait." "Your shirt" are two words Buffy fans have had stuck in their heads for over 20 years. It never stops hurting. Half a season waiting for Willow and Tara to get back together and... And no Amber Benson was always a guest star. She was made part of the main cast for this one episode.

I think Suraj's hair needs to be acknowledged for the drip and rizz!

"Seeing black" I see as a level above "Seeing red".. like pure unadulterated rage where someone gets hurt :x

The show absolutely did do that trope. It's often used as a famous example of it.

I’m so glad they all lost it when Andrew crashed into the roof because when this first aired it went to an ad break after and I swear I just cried laughing through the whole damn break 😂 I honestly had tears down my face, my sides were killing me… I just lost it 😂😂😂😂😂

Now Suraj is being gaslight! Rana's Revenge!

That scene with Spike trying to rape Buffy was for James Master that hardest he had to do for the show and said it many time in interviews...there are many story about it, i think he almost needed counselling...

Buffalo Willow approaches. Turns out the demon who's assaulted, tortured, and murdered a lot of people isn't the best dude. Pretty shocking stuff.

Fun Fact: Adam Busch (Warren Mears) and Amber Benson (Tara Maclay) used to date and still remain friends.

Amber was listed as a guest star, but this was the first and only time she was featured as a regular cast member in the opening title montage.

It still has a powerful effect after all these years

25:27 Dang Mickey…

I almost feel bad for Jonathan. He was desperate for any friendship and got mixed up with a braindead asshole and Warren, who is a Red Pill sociopath. And they both prove they weren't his friends at the crucial moment. As for Spike he thought he had become better and that he didn't stop himself or go through with his assault was an existential crisis for him. He wasn't as evil as he thought he should be or good like he wanted to be.

Most controversial episode of buffy.

The next 3 episodes are about to go CRAZY!!!

Those last episodes just impressed me so much when I was a kid back then.. Dark Willow is something else. You’re about to find out 😢🖤

This is one of the first modern tragic ends for a long time LGBT depicted relationship. This became way too common a way to end things in many shows afterwards.

The were at the height of the troll powers when they finally put Amber Benson in the opening credits only to kill her off in the same episode. Whedon joked about that with Doyle in Angel where he liked putting someone in the credits only to kill them shortly afterwards. He apparently liked that idea as far back as Season 1 with Jesse, Xander’s friend (Milo from 24) who got turned into a vampire. He wanted him in the credits just to kill him off immediately.

According to James Marsters, the bathroom scene was initially conceived by a female writer who felt guilty about trying to force herself on her ex-boyfriend in a desperate attempt to fix their relationship back in their younger days. Hence, Buffy was supposed to easily push Spike off her immediately just like how the writer's ex-boyfriend did so in real life. Except other writers got their hands on the scene and pretty much took away Buffy's powers & skills (she fights off neck bites all the time even when slightly injured). One wonders if they would've done it the same way if it was Drusilla assaulting Angel w/ the latter reduced to pleading & crying. Also, it's by this point in the series that fans in general realize that characters being happy for long is simply not allowed in this show. The trope that Chris points out at 23:34 was way more noticeable back in the early 2000s when there were very few LGBTQ characters on TV. And it's extra painful for Tara fans to find out that Joss Whedon only put Amber Benson in the opening credits b/c he didn't get to do the same thing w/ Eric Balfour who played Jesse.

One of the craziest episodes of Buffy ever lmao. And in among all the serious shit, they still gave you good comedy lol. I love this series.

Aaah, yes! I remember it vividly. Tara was always in the opening credits. Always. Since season 1. Just like Dawn.

THERE'S A STRONG FORESHADOW OF SPIKE HERE: WHEN HE LEAVES HE LET'S HIS JACKET BEHIND(the highest symbol and pride of his souless vampire days) SHOWING HIS REAL INTENTIONS WHEN HE LEFTS SUNNYDALE AGAIN😏

I love how sure Rana is even though she is wrong.

It's episodes like these that made episode 3 of The Last of Us so special. IYKYK

Top 2 tragedies, right up there with Joyce. I think it's worth keeping in mind that when a real favorite goes, they tend to have a perfect day leading up to it. Tara reconciled with the redeemed love of her life, Joyce was feeling healthy for the first time, having fun with her daughters, and had a great romantic date with someone who was "still getting it right". They go out on top. It takes just a little sting out of the heartache.

Short answer: Whedonverse is sadistic. It wouldn't build a character like Tara except to use as a weapon against the audience.

Spidey saying Spike is going to Brazil because of the best surgeons lol.

"What was that?" So apparently that was Joss Whedon getting more and more pissed that fans didn't seem to get that Spike was an evil piece of shit, he had become a fan favorite because he wasn't able to physically hurt anybody and he was a fun character. So he wrote in this scene to remind everybody that Spike is not a good guy. He's a villain with a muzzle on.

The Normies are now BtVS Winter Children. This show has it happen later than _Game of Thrones._ The truth of the matter is Angelus and The Master are the only soulless characters we've seen that could survive The Judge (perhaps some more one episode one demensional villains, but that's a hard one). At the end of the day Spike wasn't any different at the end of S5 (and the beginning of S6) as he was before he was chipped and in this episode. His realization of that doesn't change his soullessness, but it is the reason for the bathroom scene existing. Even with him hating himself, he's still soulless. That's something many fans still don't always understand. Including The Normies. Doing good never made him good. All of this is the reason for the bathroom scene existing. Tara is officially a main character and Joss finally got to do what he wanted to do with Jesse. Make him a main character just to kill him off. Only with Tara in this case. Bury your gays trope or not, there are two reasons Tara died that has nothing to do with the bad aspects of the bury your gays trope: 1. Tara was the only one this season growing up, starting when she left Willow. The point of the season is the failure of growing up. Tara is the only one not struggling in that reguard. Therefore she becomes Buffy's Giles. The replacement authority figure. This next part is not confirmed in any way, but my theory is had Anthony Stewart Head not taken time off to see his family, his character would have died ie authority figure death trope type of way. Sinve Tara had that role she had one reason she was guaranteed to die. 2. Tara and Willow getting back together seemed sweet with the line, "Can we just skip it," but I don't think its was a good idea to "skip" the issues. Long term that could just bite them in the ass. And, as seen in this episode, jumping into not dealing with them is the reason Tara is in Warren's line of fire. Dealing with those issues would mean not jumping into bed and not being naked nearly all day until the moment happens. Let me be clear, I am not blaming Willow or Tara for Warren's actions in killing Tara, but I do think it was too soon for Willow and Tara to just jump into bed. Whether Tara realized it or not, her death warrent unintentionally started when she said, "Can we just skip it." Could there have been other outcomes? Yes. But then that leads back to unresolved long term issues with Tara and Willow because they just skipped the talk they needed to have. 3. Willow was only semi on the wagon. In most arcs like the one Willow's been going through there is a moment of falling off said wagon. Tara's death, as we see at the end of the episode, triggers that for Willow. During the intial run, 15% of the fanbase disappeared after this episode. Willow acting hurt over not knowing parts of Buffy's life again. She's done that before. Buffy's business isn't always her business just because they're friends. I'm glad Tara's there to say that to her with the line, "Kind of like [the look] you have right now." I don't know how word perfect or not that is. Buffy and Xander from the time they met until now have been on friendly terms and even friends through Willow's friendship with each of them, but until the conversation they have just before Warren shows up, I don't think I believe their friendship could survive without Willow. In _The Pack,_ Xander lies to Buffy about not remembering what he did as a hyena. What his reasons are don't matter. The problem is that when Buffy finds out in _Phases,_ she makes the realization that Xander would do anything to avoid talking about important issues, from talking to him, and thus dealing with the fact that a hyena attempted to sexually assualt using his feelings, to yelling at others about issues that aren't his issues, to magically making others sing instead of talking about his own said issues with Anya, etc. When Buffy realizes he lied about the hyena, they never talk about any of their issues to one another because she realizes he can't and/or doesn't wish to. Xander yells at Buffy for her issues, and she only brings up his in anger when he's angry at her first. This episode is the first time I see them talking issues out and bringing their friendship up to a level where I feel it could survive without Willow as their third wheel bonding glue. The only other time they get close to doing so was in _The Freshman,_ but Xander flubs the advice and wants to get the group back together (in mty opinion because Willow is better at what he still cannot do with Buffy, not just because Buffy is feeling down and she needs it). _The Freshman_ issues turn to a yelling match head in _The Yoko Factor,_ and while Willow was also a part of that, audiences know Xander and Willow could stand without Buffy, and Buffy and Willow could stand without Xander. At that point I don't feel Xander and Buffy could stand without Willow. Not until this episode do I feel their friendship could survive without Willow. There is a reason why The Normies bring up the fact that this is the first time the two _really_ talk. It's because this is a beginning of a true friendship that can urvive without Willow. Is it odd that I've been waiting for Marketa's reaction to Tara's death, considering her dislike of The Trio from the beginning?

Just started and I'm already anticipating at least one person will scream.

I do enjoy seeing reactions to this episode.

I’ve always said that Tara going was the consequence of brining buffy back

What happens at the end of the next episode is going to be the biggest 'Holy CRAP!' moment in television history.

You need to check out interviews James Marsters did about "the scene". It actually came from a female writer. Her boyfriend broke up with her, SHE threw herself at him, and the man had to throw her out.

About the title of the episode, 'Seeing Red', as Mickey said, is based on Willow's eyes at the end of the episode and on seeing blood (as well as on the idiom meaning 'being angry'). But don't forget that 'Red' is also a nickname that Spike used to use for Willow (based on her hair colour). The implication is that we are now seeing Red truly; we are getting a clear view of the depths of rage and power that lie within her. This show is very studied when it comes to names. 'Buffy' suggests a ditz and sets up the whole premise of the seemingly helpless little blonde girl who turns out to be a badass; 'Angel' suggests the potential for great supernatural power which can be used for good (non-fallen angels) or evil (fallen angels); 'Spike' has overtones of violence ('torturing victims with railroad spikes') and sex (phallic symbol, anyone?). It's especially subtle with regard to Willow. Remember that Buffy often calls her 'Will'. In the Willow-centric Season Four episode Something Blue (a matching pair with 'Seeing Red'), Will is mourning the loss of Oz (again, the similarities...) and she casts a spell to 'have her will done', with hilarious but also dangerous consequences. Beneath the sweet exterior, Will is really all about having her will done, as we saw throughout Season Six; and Red is now seeing red.

Yeah this is the episode this season really goes there.

25:30 This is not Vampire Diaries. They brought back Buffy but it also brought many problems which they lasted all season.

Ok so who in the pool had Rana going full catatonic for a minute and a half? Wasn't me. Since they've already seen the next episode Mickey has already won the pool. Willow gets her revenge and bloodies up the forest doing it. Also Marketta (Sp?) was on fire this episode, especially the under-appreciated "I also casually garden in high heels."

That bathroom scene was done in one take and messed up Marster's, he hates that type of stuff, it sent him to therapy.

Whedon said he regretted having Glory hurt Tara in S5, because there was no other way to but up in S6 to accomplish what he wanted for Willow's rage without it being a repeat.

Yeah guys can't miss the last 3 episodes. Remember try and not look at the credits.

I re watched this one year and thought that the fawn Willow summons and kills in the first episode of this season is foreshadowing for Tara, a truly innocent soul.

I remember when you guys watch Hush solo and were like... yeah, its ok. Its cool. And now look at you guys representing all the scoobys out there...

This episodes ending will forever be ingrain in my head

Suraj: How do they keep finding things! Me: They're nerds, they do their homework.

broo im fucking crying at 11:52 😂 its like he had a delayed reaction, but was already dead before he could react

At least one of those guesses about what they will do to warren will happen.

Renna just so confidently prounoucing the wrong answer lol.

Another Buffy episode I've been waiting for you guys to get to. The rest of this season is wild from this point on.

James Marsters has a clause in his contract now. He will never have to do a scene like the one in this episode. It's so hard to watch for myself, personally, as an SA survivor. And the ending just rips your heart out. Welcome to the "Tara's dead" club ya'll. It's about to get real

This was the point when Joss Whedon needed to remind people that Spike is a monster.

Reminder: Spike is a soulless monster, just like Angelus was

I love the Warren character; he's the best villain, IMO, on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

The episode that I was waiting for, reactions did not disappoint, even after all these years.

Go back and watch this season, and see how many times Spike and Buffy have refused to take no for an answer during their sexual encounters

Oh boy… someone is absolutely gonna get their wish next time. 🤫

Fantastic job on a seminal episode to prepare you for the completion of this journey.

This was the original red wedding back in the day. It’s in the title Seeing Red. The shock and backlash the disbelief of Tara’s death. But it fits with theme that worst demons are not supernatural they can be human. Or just natural tragedies of life.

I still have to admit, Tara's death is one of the most shocking moments in television history. It was quick, graphic, and uncompromising. There was no build up to it, no dramatic foreshadowing (When we saw Amber Benson being added to the intro, we just thought "Finally, she's officially a part of the intro!"), or even an inkling that it was going to happen until it did. Plus it was so ironic given the story. In a series where people are battling vamps, ghouls, goblins, and other demonic monstrosities, Tara dies by one of the most human inventions of destruction ever. A gun, fired aimlessly by a pathetic man who didn't know what he was doing. It's truly tragic in more ways than a million, even after all these years.

what is wrong with Spike...........?! ... i dunno, maybe he has no soul, no conscience, no ethics? he's not human?

yeah that was pretty much everyone's reaction to the ending to this episode! 😧

4:59 "I hate them so much!!" Oh, you sweet summer child... I've been excited to see you all react to this (and also scared for your trauma 😢)

Amber has never been in the opening credits until this episode.

The goosebumps I got from y’all reacting to Tara’s scene. And willows eyes. For me this is one of the best story arch’s in the series, leading into great final seasons (in my opinion)

oh wow y'all are actively watching this. I just watched this episode and decided to see if y'all had reacted to it and lo and behold! exciting!