VILLAINS | Buffy the Vampire Slayer 6x20 | The Normies Group Reaction 

We are taking a break from Young Justice this week and next week, as our Under the Red Hood reaction will be posted next week.

The reaction to Warren being flayed was amazing.

Buffy saw what killing did to Faith, and she doesn't want Willow to go the same way.

When Micky said he wanted Warren to be flayed last week. I literally gasped out loud. Regarding the not killing humans from Buffy's perspective, she was given supernatural powers to fight supernatural beings. She's seen what could happen when someone with power goes down the path of darkness. i.e. Faith.

Marketa missing the actual moment because she was dancing with joy at Willow tormenting Warren 😂

Willow is a supernatural being at this point. She just survived an ax in the back. Humans don't just shake that off.

I loved her dismissive “bored now”. It was a favorite phrase of her vampire self. Willow’s losing her soul.

"Bored now", the same phrase her evil vampire self would say before going for the kill. Such a nice touch.

You’ve heard of Buffy The Vampire Slayer, now meet: Willow The Misogynist Flayer

Spidey: Whats the next episode called? Chris: Its called 'They deserved it and I hope they burn in hell' Lol 😂

I’m not going to shed a single tear for Warren, but I’m with Suraj on this one. Andrew and Jonathan deserve to be in jail, which they already are. I don’t think they’ve earned being skinned alive.

The only thing better than the freak out at the end of this episode is knowing they will freak out even HARDER at the end of the next episode. ILTTTT.

Yeah, im with suraj, andrew and jonathan dont deserve to be fileted... warren deserved it, but probably not the best move for somebody addicted to dark magic to use said magic for murder lol... commenting for the algorithm 😂

Just a reminder for those who don't rewatch Buffy 1-2 times a year [ :) ]--"Bored now" was Vamp Willow's (S. 3) catchphrase. I love how the writers bring these things back!

Everyone is fine with Warren getting flayed. It's losing Willow that's the problem. Although, now that you mention it, the idea of chipless Spike and Dark Willow teaming up for a season probably would have been really cool. But as you know by now, Suraj is correct. That's not really how Buffy (the show) does these things. They foreshadow the next season, but don't leave the story and theme of the current season unresolved.

The delineation between Buffy, Willow, and Warren when it comes to their decisions about how to use their power made for an interesting commentary about the responsible use of power. Buffy, the Slayer, tasked with supernatural powers to protect the world from mystical threats. Willow, the mild-mannered nerdy girl who embraced witchcraft because it gave her the confidence she craved as a teenager. And finally Warren, the impotent boy with a horrifying sense of entitlement who had a chip on his shoulder because he thinks the world owed him. Through these three characters we see the effects that power can have on our lives and ultimately we see the responsibility that is required to properly wield such power. Buffy restrains herself to only deal with the supernatural as being the Slayer doesn’t give her unilateral authority. Willow deems it okay to break the laws of nature because she has good intentions even if she disregards the concerns of others (e.g. Giles, Buffy, and Xander). Then we have Warren who simply doesn’t care about anything beyond his selfish desires to satiate his ego. These ideas have cropped up repeatedly (e.g. Buffy and Faith), but I think Season 6 opted for a more personal look at human failings that we get a deeper sense of the commentary.

I love how everyone who reacts to this independently arrives at "Dark Willow" and "Darth Willlow/Darth Rosenburg" as the name of this character :P

Anya's gray area here fascinates me. "I'd love to help her but she doesn't want me to." Love this dynamic...and Willow's absorption of the dark magic books will always be cool.

I love Dark Willow's era. It's just so darn good and Alyson Hannigan nails it. The reaction to the end of this episode was fantastic. It's easily one of my favourite endings to any episode of television. Yes, it's wrong to kill humans, but god Warren is so so awful that you want him to suffer and yet what Willow does to him still stuns you when you watch it. "Bored now" is the perfect blend of chilling and dark humour.

It's doubtful that the mayor could be considered human anymore even before he turned into a snake. He was already hundreds of years old and immortal.

Meet the real villain of season 6...Dark Willow. It was building up the entire season with her addiction to magic and now it was pushed to her limit. ! It's an amazing villain and excellent example of relatable, coming from a place of pain and anger !!

I love how this season just shows that a human with a soul is capable of such evil and cruelty as a demon without one

I think Mickey sums up all of our attitudes about this episode with his single comment, spoken with total sincerity: "Can we see it again?" ...Thanks for a fantastic reaction normies! Great episodes ahead!!

Buffy knows that the only way to be happy is to make the correct choices and really like who you are, because the world around will never be as good as she wants it to be. everyone around her can disappoint her or pass away. Knowing that you're the best you can be, and liking yourself is something that can't change even if the world does. kiIing humans would be compromising Buffy's best self.

Normies before season 6: "dang that faith storyline has been the best thing ive ever seen" Normies after season 6: "you can have a little murder as a treat"

Most efficient chest shave ever...

Mickey's reaction 🎶 that's all I ever wanted. All I ever needed! YEAH! Now play that back! 🎶

Love Marketa’s silent nod of approval when Willow sews Warrens mouth shut 😂😂. Awesome reaction guys

To be fair to Jonathan, the spell he cast in season 4* wasn't with the intent to mentally control people, it was to make himself a paragon of good, which altered reality and everyones perception. Its a line between "I made you love me" and "I made myself someone you would love". The mind control this season was across that line, and you see in that episode he never understood or considered just how vile it was until it was thrown in his face, at which point he wanted out but was now trapped by Warren holding his part in the murder over him. He totally deserves to go to jail, but hes redeemable and self aware enough to achieve that.

The irony is that the show runners have stated that Willow is based on Jean Grey and this arc was their version of the Dark Phoenix saga. And Buffy managed to tell a more successful and faithful version of the Dark Phoenix story than either X-Men The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix.

When you realize that the true villain aka “The Big Bad” this season is not the Trio but is evil Willow. This truly is the darkest season in both Buffy and Angel.

Willow going Scarlet Witch is the best thing from the 00's.

The Boltons are definitely Dark Willows favorite family in Game of Thrones. “A naked man has few secrets; a flayed man none” Also Suraj being the only one who wanted to forego vengeance while everyone else was salivating for murder was sending me 😂. He’s really taken the lessons of Angel and Buffy to heart…….but it felt soooo good to watch Warren meet the consequences of his bad actions. Also Chris gets a cookie for the Big O reference!

Dark Willow is here! 🎉

In the Buffyverse, magic is like pharmaceuticals, if used properly by humans it is medicine but if overused it is a drug. It's why Giles, with all of his knowledge and books, rarely cast spells. He did when he was a teen, but who doesnt experiment when they're a kid...and it still had consequences into his adulthood. Willow's use of magic is the primary focus of the drug addiction metaphor, but it's been interwoven throughout both shows consistently since at least since Willow decided to really focus on witchcraft instead of STEAM. That being said, apply it to the Trio. Warren didn't even dabble in magic, he was just a misogynistic incel nerd. Andrew and Jonathan, on the other hand, were a conjuror and a sorceror respectively. They dabbled. You could compare them to kids binge drinking, snorting a few lines or popping some pills at a party with your buddies. It seems harmless and sociable and accepted but people can really do dumb shit or make the stupidest mistakes that one time they got wasted with friends. Jonathan's reality warping episode is like guy who thinks he's much cooler and more charming when he's drunk or high with any awareness of how it's affecting others. And bothe he and Andrew's use of magic blind them to just how horrid Warren really is. Andrew's doing it to fit in, so when he like the guy just doing drugs to seem cool even if they aren't doing it. So as the season went on and they used less magic ans more tech, Jonathan started to come around, just like being sober can lead to moments of clarity. In terms of rewatch ability, this season is the stand out of the series bcuz of so many details and metaphors.

Roose Bolton approves.

Buffy gang: we don’t kill humans Normies: yes we do!!! Are you guys ok? 😅😂

I always loved how Buffy stood 10 toes down on not killing humans (on purpose) but always did what needed to be done when it came to evil mystical forces. She is the law 🤷🏾‍♂️

“Warren, come out to play-ay …”

You guys were calling for a blood eagle last week and you didn't know how close you were 😂

This was the episode I couldn't wait for you guys to get to when you started the Buffy series lol because that "bored now" was such an iconic thing for me and it always feel like watching it for the first time.! Loved the reaction guys.!

"I wish Warren had shot himself instead of Tara." - Willow "Done." - Anya. "Hello!" - Tara

Does Marketa not understand that taking Dawn with her would be putting Dawn on the front lines of danger?

One of my favorite things about Season 6 is how all last 4 episodes end. If you have been invested in the entire show from Season 1, then the last scene of all last four episodes get the same excited / scared/ elated / it's complicated response from every fan. It is wonderful television. Thank you all for doing this ❤

Willow takes the skin off her fried chicken 🍗

Micky, are you psychic? Let the flaying begin.

The funny thing in real life the actors who played Tara and Warren dated for years!

Pretty sure I commented back in The Wish that “Bored Now” is one of my favourite lines form the show and now you know why!

Re: the Mayor - don't forget that Giles stabbed him through the heart with a sword, but the Mayor had become unkillable in that period before his ascension. Giles would have been a straight-up murderer and I think we would have been okay with that. (He also murders Ben who was human at the time, but we can argue re: Glory about that.) It's Buffy the character, not Buffy the show, who draws the line at killing humans.

They can't be judge, Jury and Executioner for the human world. Self defense or immediate defense of others, you do what you need to do. There was no way Willow wasn't going off the rails though. AB will be missed. They already ruined Willow with the magic is crack arc earlier. Feel really bad for Dawn there.

I was waiting YEARS for you to get to this point. Best final episodes of BUFFY! This was my teenagehood

Not gonna lie, I kind of wanted to see Pat’s reaction to this one.

"Bored now." is and will forever be one of the coldest callbacks to ever be experienced lol

"Bored now" should be worrying them since that's the phrase vamp!Willow would use.

The season 6 "villains" are just a brilliant reset from fighting a god in season 5. The turn to extremely human villains, flaws, emotions and failings is a great way to not have to one-up fighting a god.

This reaction did not disappoint! 😃 Great to see opposing moral views on the couch so there was a discussion throughout. The Buffyverse has an ongoing theme about killing humans (like with Faith's storyline), but Buffy's main concern is the dark power Willow's using to do it. She's afraid that Willow herself will be lost and that the dark magic will corrupt her mind. We've seen it in other fictional universes as well, like with people using the Darkhold in the MCU.

One of my favourite moments for reactions, this did not let me down 😂😂😂

For the incident with Katrina, Jonathan and Andrew could potentially be charged with kidnapping, coercion, attempted sexual assault, felony murder (murder occurring during the commission of a separate felony -- the kidnapping and/or SA), murder/manslaughter/SA as accomplices (depends on how accomplices are treated under CA criminal law), potentially accessories after the fact for the murder, tampering with or concealing evidence, and potentially a crime like tampering with a corpse for moving Katrina's body. But IIRC, Katrina's death was ruled a suicide, and there were no witnesses other than the Trio to the kidnapping, coercion, and SA, so unless Jonathan flipped, those charges could never be brought.

Micky is a vengeance demon, confirmed

One of the GREAT Buffy episodes. I've also been watching other reactors who are only in the first and second seasons, and the contrast between Early Willow and Dark Willow is stark and satisfying.

Flaying was a form of torture, especially for heretics, rebels, and thieves. It was practiced at various times and in many cultures. Sometimes the victim would be hung upside down so the brain would receive oxygenated blood ensuring consciousness for as long as possible. Death could occur within hours, or, if the executioner was very skilled, the victim's death could be delayed for days. Hideous way to die.

I view Buffy's no killing thing more so as this universe basically being a superhero/comic book universe. Some will kill in one of those universes but a majority don't.

I have been waiting for this since Marketa first said she hated The Trio and since last week have been practically bouncy in my waiting since Mickey predicted Warren's death, unintentionally. His reaction was great. As were everyone else's: Mickey applauding over his head. Chris being so shocked he asked/stated if she did so. Marketa missing the initial moment out of happiness at getting a line before it was stated only to jaw drp the same way Rana, Spidey, and Suraj do. Great shock from all of them. The reason The Trio is the easiest to imagine in real life villainy is because the mataphor of S6 was all but dropped as part of the point of the failure of all the characters growing up. That point was the metaphor in and of itself and it wasn't really a metaphor. It just blatantly showed the difficulties of the characters not growing up during a period of life when people do. "Human death by human means." That is how Tara died. Where as Buffy died by means of sacrificing herself to close a portal. It is the only reason Osiris allowed it. And there were consequences because proper channels weren't followed. Same with Joyce. In both situations they could come back, but there have been huge consequences as a result. Willow asked Osiris directly and he'd just had it with and stated directly that with Tara it was not possible because it was "A human death by human means." Truthfully this gives merit to the fact that it wasn't Joyce who was resurected, but a zombie. It's not rock bottom so much as purposely falling back off the wagon to ignore the pain of grief she is trying not to deal with. Xander asking, "When," about Anya becoming a demon insults any intelligence people pretend he has. The fact that no one in The Scoobies saw Anya re-entering demon-hood coming, and are still still considering Willow a friend, but Anya is considered boo worthy, despite Willow currently doing the same thing as Anya when she does her vengeance wishes, speaks volumes. As stated before, Willow is slightly wose because she chooses to handle it herself. It really is a point of many on the scale of original four vs every other member of the group. I think Willow's letting Warren run. It's a type of torture for him. Willow's now a murderer. She wasn't defending herself. She was getting vengeance (and it definitely wasn't justice as that is about righting a wrong that is best for everyone on both sides of the situation, and Willow going after the other members of the Trio shows it is vengeance [see more about that in a paragraph below], not justice) even Anya has never directly done that (D'Hoffryn and those he gives the power of the wishes justify it by having it come from the wishers rather than doing it themselves, as Willow does). She had Warren tied up, mouth sewn shut, and tore off his skin after slowly piercing him with a bullet. Knowing he's scum/wishing this on him, and actually doing it to him are different things. No one caring he's dead doesn't justify the end means. Willow cannot escape justice on this one just because she used magic. A human is still dead without the law being on her side. That is why Willow burned his body into nothing. No body, no crime. Warren himself being a murderer makes her issues towards him understandable (thus why The Normies reacted as they did, but as stated before, wishing this on him is different than doing it). It but doesn't make her actions right. That's the whole point of why her friends have the look on their faces after they failed to stop her and why Buffy was trying to stop her to begin with. Willow is now a murderer. I agree that it was best the character of Warren died. But how he died makes Willow a murderer. Warren's plea about Willow being a good person just before his death has truths, but he's doing it to save his skin and there isn't any way Willow would listen to him. I'm not even sure she would've listened to her friends had they arrived in time. Jonathan and Andrew are not at fault for Tara's death. Willow going after them is a mode Rana got herself in that I can't get behind. Other humans do summon demons and the things that aren't about human laws. They don't deserve death the same way Warren did. And technically Warren shot Tara with a gun, so he's outside Buffy's juristiction as it was, ""Human death by human means." But Willow's vengeance and her going after those who weren't involved in shooting Tara puts Willow in Buffy's "juristiction," as Rana phrased. Andrew and Jonathan being accomplises to the death of Katrina, while also participating in raping her, makes the situation a human juristiction, as well. I agree with Chris when he said Jonathan and Andrew are in jail. Leave well enough alone. Willow not doing so as she stated with, "One down," means Buffy will have to go after her. Willow is in Buffy's juristiction. The Trio no longer are. Sorry Rana, I disagree with you on that. I also disagree that not killing people is an older trope. I think the whole storyline was written well enough to debate what most people would assume not debatable. Other shows have tropes they write. This show uses tropes to its advantage within the narative of the whole. Angel told Buffy Faith had a taste for killing after The Deputy Mayor. Willow is now in the same position Faith was in during that point in S3. I remember Willow's thoughts on Faith during that point and even before that point. So, it's actually quite interesting Willow is now in that position. Will she go down the path Faith did? If she does, will she come back, as Faith did? Faith has been in the darkness longer, when you consider her issues, but Willow is an addict who purposely fell off the wagon to ignore her grief and get vengeance. Where does that level of thinking stop as an addict to magic? Lots of people start out as victims, Marketa. It doesn't justify their horrible responses/actions.

Why does Jonathan deserve it though, the reason he is in jail, is because while being a criminal, he chose to help buffy stop Warren woth no intention of escaping. Andrew yiu could argue hasn't redeemed himself in any way, but Jonathan was an idiot that got caught in the foolery, but realised finally it was too far, and chose to help the good guys

My only criticism of Dark Willow is she was too merciful.

I love the reaction to this one, you guys are awesome. I was so waiting for this.

I think the ppl who don’t accept Willow as evil now don’t understand how the forces of darkness have utterly imbued her, and are influencing and enhancing her own grief and rage. The first time she ever started down this path, Giles said “you might be opening a door you cannot close{ or something to that effect. He understood that it’s not just her own good intentions, emotions and vulnerabilities, the “dark side” is opportunistic and always looking for a way in.

Dark Willow Rises!

While this season was originally seen as very weak , this season is so strong and gets better the older you get because of the adult themes it deals with

Hated Tara dying, but Dark Willow was just bad azz bish! 😎

Bored Now. :) Proceeds to flay him and it was well deserved after he tried act empathic. edit: Damn I love you guys.

This reaction seems an excellent reflection of how society has changed from Buffy's day to today. 20 years ago, people were with Buffy. Today, people side with Willow. Buffy saw how badly this vengeance would destroy Willow, and that there are better ways to see Warren get what he deserves than bloodthirsty vengeance. Willow is blind, bloodthirst. 20 years ago, people wanted to be better; wanted justice, not just blood; saw heroes as merciful and responsible, not just powerful. Today, people want blood, pain, power, and destruction of whatever they consider to be their enemies. "Willow is the victim here." Only at first. She quickly used that to become the victimizer

Something I love about this series is that people seek the satisfaction of revenge but nothing is going to make the murdered person come back. And for someone evil, being murdered is a gift, they deserve to pay in prison for the damage they did. No one thinks that murder really damages your psyche and that's what Buffy is talking about. Murder turns you into a monster, for the very fact that you treasure life, it is something that self-destructs you. And that's what Buffy talks about, and it's something very deep... and very real... current series or movies make the audience long for murder and they never talk about the deeper implications of that act and what destroys the person. that makes.

Wesley says on an episode that the Mayor indeed was not human based upon how old he was

"Bored now" = excellent callback to Vampire Willow 👌

Damn right she flayed his ass.

Do you all remember the fish episode? After the fall of the Soviet Union. :) Then we get to this point in the show.

Fun fact: that principle flutie as a demon bartender 😂

Black-veiny Willow will always be my fav Buffy Big Bad.

Huh I never thought about this final stretch of this season too much but it’s funny that spike is in a journey to gain his humanity while willow is losing hers. They bring up some good points like what is the real difference between the demons they kill and people around them. The show never really made me like willow.

Even after almost killing Buffy and accidentally killing Tara, nobody takes Warren seriously. Hammering home the point that the nerds are the lamest main villains of the series (though Dark Willow is ultimately this season's Big Bad). Unfortunately, likely due to having few episodes left, there was barely any time to mourn Tara. I was surprised that Buffy isn't sadder (like she was when Ms. Calendar died) since they were really developing a friendship.

As for mortals...ancient immortal sorcerers (snake mayor or not) are in the Slayers wheelhouse, whereas Ethan Rayne is just a human with magic at his fingertips...so he went to prison instead of being blasted to smithereens. Gwendoly Price...was only supposed to lose a hand and the power of the gauntlet...but unbeknownst to Buffy the price of being separated from the gauntlet was being consumed by its power. Against Faith, Buffy fought a fellow slayer...someone with a massive, innate supernatural power that couldn't be easily contained...death was on the table as an option, but it didn't quite go that far. Warren...he did have it coming...but theres a steep price attached to killing in the Buffyverse (and in life in general). The soul of the killer for vengeance is stained twice, first with grief and loss, then with guilt. No one wants that for the people they love. We all cheer for Warren's ugly ending...which was meant to be shocking, but its followed by the solemn realization that Willow is charged with dark magic and has no intention of stopping with just one dead guy. Although one likes to be optimistic, remember that even when she was only a magic addict, her actions were irresponsible and dangerous to everyone around her...the odds of her suddenly being completely satisfied and going back to normal because a sufficient amount of vengeance has been achieved are...well, impossibly slim at best.

The Mayor wasn't really a human. He sold his soul decades before we met him to have eternal youth and was over 100 years old, even before he became an enormous snake demon. Lol.

Willow went full Hellraiser on Warren, I’m suprised they were able to get away with in 2002

Killing rips the soul apart.

Imagine being such a terrible magical supervillain that you end up killing people in ways that are entirely mortal.

I truly believe these final 3 eps are Buffy's finest hour(s)

Dark Willow. Guys Willow is just getting started. From when you guys started watching Buffy, from us who know how OP Willow is, we were just waiting.

Back in season 5 in the fight atop the escape vehicle not killing humans did not seem to extend to knights of Byzantium.

marketta's stance on capital punishment immediately reverses when its Jonathan lol

I love the Dark Willow era sooooooo much.

Note to Normies: Please watch 6x21 and 6x22 as a two-hour season finale since that's how it was originally aired.

You guys seem to forget that Willow is the same as Warren. Are you forgetting how she was taking away Tara’s free will by constantly erasing her memory whenever they got into a fight? Willow also erased everyone else in their circle’s memory which almost got them killed. The stuff she was doing with Amy at the club? How she talked to Giles when he warned her about relying on magic? Ripped Buffy out of Heaven without even trying to figure out where Buffy’s soul went to; she just assumed Buffy was in hell. Warren killed people which Willow didn’t do until now but she was manipulating people as Warren was doing. Warren’s crew did other terrible things but that doesn’t change that they both did horrible things to each other. Warren was hurt by people which caused him to do what he did just like Willow is doing now. He’s insane of course but the same argument applies is my point.

Dark Willow is the best part of season 6. Alyson Hannigan kills that performance. And man I love this episode.

Restless (season 4 finale) even foreshadows Tara's death...in Willow's dream there is an ominous threat outside of Tara's dorm window.

And thus possibly the most OP entity in the buffyverse is born.

Ever since you guys started reacting to Season 6, I've been waiting for you to get to this episode, just to see your reaction to seeing Warren getting flayed alive.

YUP! And the villain of this season is: WILLOW! Welcome to Dark Willow ERA!

After Seeing Red there is only one way the last three can go in the Season. It had been intimated all through this Season that even though Willow had sought help and was trying to curb her addiction, anything could set it off. Well her witnessing Tara's death is the catalyst for ultimate revenge and mayhem. It's now very much in the realm of Liam Neeson in Sam Raimi's brilliant film Darkman where relentless devastating revenge is sought on all who wronged him. Willow is now all powerful, and we feel will be unstoppable. Great scene in the bar when Warren tells them all he killed the slayer, and they tell him she is still alive. Little does he know it's not Buffy he has to fear. Once Rack has informed Warren that he can sense the power of the new Dark Force in the witch we know Warren will be doomed. Willow is now without any feeling or empathy, even when she draws the bullet from Buffy there is no emotion or feeling. Warren thinks he can fool Willow with Robot Warren, but when Buffy and Xander plea with Willow she says' I'm not coming back', she will get her retribution. A brilliant scene with Dawn too when she says to Buffy 'I'd do it myself if I could' as young girl and human, she has has that emotion and hatred towards Warren, a natural reaction many would feel. Xander makes a good point here in that you don't have to be a Vampire or Demon to be pure evil, saying Warren is as bad as any human 'sent to Dustville'. We see Spike seeking a similar way to Angel in 'The Trial' episode from the Angel Show, where is he seeking something by completing ultimate dangerous tests, but the restoration of what? The final scene of Willow placing the bullet into Warren and sealing his lips is amazing. Still we feel hatred towards him as he is still showing no remorse, a truly detestable character worse than any Demon. As Buffy, Xander and Anya witness the skinning alive of Warren they are horrified. Willow says to them 'one down' there really are 'Two To Go'. A brilliant S6 episode.

Guess i shouldnt be shocked the Hoosier crew takes a pretty pro capital punishment perspective lol