Wow. I wish I could have seen this when I was studying with Chapdelaine. Really gives a whole other perspective on who he is and where he comes from. What a humble and wise response to what Segovia said to him. I just gained a lot more respect for Chapdelaine as a person after seeing this.
I always come back to this video as a reminder of what to NEVER do as a teacher - we are supposed to work with others to inspire the best in them and not bully them into our way of playing Unfortunately I see too many people here in the comments (and elsewhere) hero-worshipping Segovia and praising Chapdelaine for taking this "like a humble student" and not how absolutely UNHINGED Segovia is here - he's on an ego-trip like a tech CEO!
A teacher should encourage their student to play and explore. The teacher guides along the path and inspires. I’ve never always my students to figure things out for themselves and then maybe I can learn something from them
you should never do this to students who aspire to be a professional or less, but if theyre already at the highest level i mean i would assume if its not the teacher doing it, its the critics and fans. plus this was a 30 year old man who had already recieved all the possible education he could have received on guitar and years of professional experience. I dont think its that bad and it overall had a net positive effect on him
For me, this video sums up the sad part of the classical guitar world. The cult-like worship of Segovia as a God was so great that when he narcissistically throws someone out of his class for not obeying his dogmatic vision, the student actually blames himself rather than dare admit Segovia was acting like a child on a power trip.
trying to get into the head of music teachers back them (especially at the Elite level of Segovia). The dogmatic approach (to almost be a 'tape recorder' of/for your teacher) was a hang up of prerecording days (imho). Classical music, in order to keep music (that could only be a written record) 'true and pure'. It was transferred with the strictest teaching. This also helped assure, only the most committed and best players became the ambassadors of Classical Guitar (a relatively new 'thing'). Rather than be someone who may collapse, at some pointer later in their career (wasting the time the teacher spent with them). Ironically. the pressure of lessons like this, was seen as an important way to test and improve a players ability to handle Stress. The stresses of performance, advanced training and dead line pressures etc. If you could handle these lessons, nothing would phase you in the 'real world' of composing and performing etc. If you survived that fire, what was forged was always strong :) Just look at the lessons some of the great composers, musicians received in past centuries (lots of beatings and long, forced, training periods). It makes sense, the intense pressure, once you see how teaching evolved over the last few hundred years.
Segovia was a good enough player but not as good as he thought he was. Barrios was far better and Segovia was jealous of him and ruined his European and international chances: nasty piece of work. David Russell is a far better player than Segovia was and yet is very humble and gentle in master classes as is Pepe Romero. Sadly Julian Bream though I love his playing was sarcastic and uptight in master classes. Not everyone is a natural teacher I guess.
Mr Chapdelaine, I remember that masterclass vividly. My goodness, I can't believe it. It's all flooding back to me and I was 9 years old back then studying with James Smith. You were definitely one of my favorites. You probably don't remember but I did say hello to you at the end of the festival. Love your playing very much.
Yes, I remember. Your kindness and belief in me was very moving. Funny how that moment flooded right back as I read your words. hope life has been kind to you and your family.
I'm not sure that I am accomplished enough as a guitarist to have a worthwhile opinion, but my instinctual reaction is that Segovia was too hard on Michael. I think Segovia should've explained to Michael why he thought his fingerings were better than Michael's.
Speaking as a student who studied w Professor Chapdelaine for 6 years, I can assure those of you that haven't studied w him, he is an absolute musical genius, especially w fingerings. Many arrangers use the fingerings that are the easiest and most obvious. Professor Chapdelaine taught me to run down every possible fingering w relentless persistence, and be prepared to justify every fingering that I chose over another. It was anything but easy, especially when you only have a week before your next lesson and this had to be done before you could even start learning the piece. For something like a Bach Cello or Lute Suite the possibilities seemed endless. But eventually I learned to do it and on occasion he even complimented my choices. He only required me to use his fingerings until he trusted and trained me enough to find my own. He was never an easy teacher and expected a lot. But in the end he was teaching me to be my own artist rather than 'his pupil'. In my opinion, this is where his pedagogy surpassed Segovia's. It wasn't long before I could do solo guitar arrangements for the complete instrumentation of orchestral pieces and bands including every instrument simultaneously. His instruction was invaluable to me and my ability to understand music. I think he asked more from me than any other teacher I had (though it would've been a toss up w Dr. Richard Hermann). He will always have my deepest respect and most heart felt gratitude... Miss you Professor, and hope your life is unfolding beautifully... and if you're ever up for a game of chess, I'll be prepared };{] Your friend always; saludos, Carlos VG
Yes, I miss our time together, Carlos VG. That was as good as professors ever get. I did expect a lot from you and you always delivered a bit more. I hope you are still working hard and getting good at whatever calls to your fine mind.
As a former resident of NM I have heard about this for a long time but this is the first time I have ever seen it. You have to give it to Michael, he kept his cool and used this experience for the better. Good for you Michael.
Por lo que escucho aquí en la guitarra de Chapdelaine, su forma, expresión, sonido, fue especial y muy propio desde muy joven. No entiendo por qué Segovia lo paraba a cada momento. Admiro la paciencia del joven Chapdelaine.
Imagino que Segovia, mientras lee la partitura, vería portamentos tachados, números de dedos cambiados. Nosotros no vemos la partitura que lee Segovia. Es cierto que Chapdelaine toca muy bien, pero no supo razonar por qué cambió toda la digitación.
@@naegleriafowleri2230 La versión es la de Segovia, escrita en partitura. No hay ninguna improvisación. Es una transcripción de Segovia, el original es para piano.
I understand Chapdelaine had a bad time with Segovia but on the other hand he had a masterclass from the author of the piece! I mean, really hard and though for the player but there is learning here...learning directly from Segovia. Isn't that great? It reminds me when I was an Architecture student and I came to my teacher with what I thought were good buildings, good projects... he laughed and said it was worthless and I wanted to kill myself. But I decided to listen and try to see it his way. I worked very hard for a long time and finally I got back to my teacher and he told me "Now you've got it! This is Architecture!" I really thank him for that. He made me hate him. He made me got ill. He got me in a nervous breakdown...but he gave me this gift about always try to improve and do things better. These lines are for him, wherever he is right now. Thank you so much, master!
chapeau for chapdelaine, such sweet tones he produced, what remains after seeing the poor Segovia is deep respect for Chapdelaine who obviously loves music deep in his soul.
Segovia wasn't ready for Barrios' music. He liked ''La Catedral" actually, they were friends at first but he never played a single piece because Barrios were late for a meeting. We'll never know what really happened.
Chapdelaine’s a brilliant performer. Can see both sides. Segovia was one of virtuosi of the time. He built its repertoire from literally nothing. He transposed/inspired pieces never heard before, perhaps like for the ukulele as an extreme example. Appears the old school way was showing how to play pieces instead of today’s interactive approach. Played for several masterclasses in the 90’s. It was a combination of showing how you how to play and/or “new” approaches to discussion. Up to that time I think we were all conditioned to “play for a guitar god” and all the pressure and expectation that comes with it. There’s a fine line between modeling vs acquiring your own voice in playing. Much of my own playing is influenced by the Romero teaching method. As I understood and mastered concepts, I looked back at other styles i.e, Segovia, Parkening, and Williams. It helped me better appreciate their sound. Doesn’t make one better than the other, but you gain insight into the evolution of Classical guitar. It’s still very much a young instrument compared to the history of the violin, piano, or flute. Its repertoire and keys signatures are limited, so we can only perpetuate it, find new pieces, keep loving it...
Wow, Michael Chapdelaine took this with so much more insight than many of the commenters here. Chapdelaine (C) and Segovia (S) were at cross purposes. C was trying to find his own voice, but S was trying to pass on his voice. S had to get C to stop imposing his voice on S's repertoire so that C could learn to play it in S's voice. Once C mastered S's voice he would be free to develop his own however he wanted. It just wasn't the time and place for originality. A masterclass is not a show.
Chapdelaine just had to find himself and he did big time. Now he plays acoustic guitar, and makes his own improvisations and is absolutely great! One of the best accoustic guitar players today.
Unfortunately, this only confirms to me the reservations John Williams had to Segovia's approach (expressed in a few interesting interviews). The cult of the 'maestro' is a tradition in music teaching that has its roots, in the way manifested here, in the nineteenth century, and evident in many other music disciplines like piano and violin ( eg the Russian schools), so there is historical context to Segovia's approach as a teacher. This can present a problem for the modern player who is encouraged to (informatively) find his or her own way, which includes fingerings and necessary experimentation. Yes, it will ultimately be the death of music and individual expression to slavishly imitate a 'master', but on the other hand, keeping that goal in sight, what an extraordinary challenge it for us as players to try. There are so many elements to the playing here that are not easy to re-produce: the limbic sense of rubato born out of a very close connection with nineteenth century romanticism, and the ability to use all the romantic reserves of the guitar to realise it: unsurpassed vibrato etc. You can here this as well in other players like Ida Presti. What I get from Segovia, regardless of his harshness and even brutal treatment of some students, is his unwavering musicality. You can tell he 'sings', when playing and when reading a score. Having said all this, I think Chapdelaine was remarkable in his response, and very respectful and humble, and played the opening phrases beautifully. Just wish I had the chance to hear the whole piece!
I think that what kills the music as you say has a lot to do with expectations. The first thing a teacher should do is to make sure the student understands what he/she is walking into. Make sure there is an understanding why things are done the way it is done, make sure it is understood that there is a goal. When both agree on this, it is no longer bullying and snobby, it becomes a setting where there is respect and hard work towards a goal. However, there are very different ways to teach and learn music. Being a trained musician myself, I know for sure, I would never ever take a piano class or guitar class with academic music teacher. That does not fit my taste nor my way of learning music.
@Pablo Rivera I know... Working with academic musicians in a teacher / student relationship is a special thing that's not for everyone. It's most certainly not my cup of tea. But it can work, but way too often it does not. And I'm talking about academic musicians that have the respect for other views. This guy in specific, I would take the abuse one or two times, and I would demand respect or leave. No need to explain why to him, because he would probably think I was crazy. I haven't taken many classes myself, as I am in a totally different world when it comes to the music. However, I have taken violin classes bitd - that was fun. Teacher was highly educated, but had a way of teaching where he respected me as different than him, and worked around that. Basically, it was about the music, not the what kind of music and how it is supposed to be executed :). That said, I have taken some classes with a drum teacher. It was bitd when I was at school. I usually keep away from the drums, but I thought it would be interesting to broaden my perspective a bit, and seized the oportunity for 20 classes during 6 months. Don't get me wrong, I know my way around a drumkit, and can play it pretty good if I spend some time with it. But the first teacher I had, started with sitting me down on the chair, and said - play. I did so, and he immediately started to pick apart every technique I used, which was perfectly valid techniques used by thousands of skilled drummers, but it wasn't his way. He told me if he was gonna teach me, I was to do it his way. I told him - soooo... we are gonna spend these classes me relearning a new way of doing everything just because you don't want me to play it my own (and thousands of other's) way? I basically told him to stop wasting my time and MY money and be gone. Two weeks later, the teacher was fired. Nobody was interested in working with him - I wonder why. The next teacher was a nice dude, but a slacker, and always had something come up so he couldn't come. So it was a failed experiment and I let the school know I was demanding a total refund, which I got. That first drum teacher reminds me of the stereotypical academic musician type. Which I will never seek out myself ever again, and that kinda teachers are not to be near my kids, exactly because of what you said - they have a way of shattering the joy for music.
I used to walk by pianist Claudio Arrau's house on Saturdays in the 70s in Queens, N.Y. when all his students would come for their lessons from Julliard. Alot of yelling in 4 different languages. It was loud. 2 pianos and Chopin. Just sayin'
I'm working on a Prelude (no. 1) and as I was writing out the music and trying to figure out the best fingerings, I was getting frustrated and needed some direction. Listening to Chapdelaine here, I realize what I need is a good teacher. The music I want to play is already written and a technique and approach has been worked out. I just have to put my experience and emotion behind it all to breathe my own life into it. Good video.
Michael won the first Guitar Foundation of America Competition (GFA 1982), four years earlier. He was well established. His fingerings were valid. His interpretaion was wonderful. Had he chosen any other edition to refinger, it would have been very different. Segovia was insulted & misunderstood his intention. Michael and Segovia made up in the end, but this had a great impact on him and his career. There is no denying that he was, and is a great artist in whatever genre he chooses to perform.
After quite a while of reading negative comments here and there about this famous chewing by Segovia I finally found this video n let me tell you: If you don't play an instrument or do other art, craft or sport, and you've never been thru something like this it can be hard 2 understand how this could amount 2 anything good, but just take a second listen 2 Michael's words afterwards. A good 'ego ass-kicking' can give you so many new perspectives! And that, in the end, is what it's all about!
This is a great student. His interpretation of his experience with Segovia is brilliant. He came back to the mind of the beginner, or as Phillipp Sudo who wrote "Zen Guitar" says, he 'put on the white belt.' He can handle the criticism of a sensei.
Great Chapdelain! Great humility and intelligence in making the best out of this encounter...he was scolded by a giant, a guitar hero. Chapdelain today is a great player...maybe also for this lesson.
I guess you could take it and go away feeling abused by a master or you could try to work it around in your head to make something of it. He seems to have managed that.
Not injustice. Without that lesson, he would have no idea what important parts of musical education and guitar expression he could explore for own benefit. Dumb students always take shortcuts to achieve "overall look", and quick satisfaction, but that fools them and they miss important parts of the entire structure. Fortunately, Chapdelaine was not so dumb like many of us - he listened to the hard advice. It took him a while to see serious flaws in his playing.
Segovia would have said "cut off your fingers, maybe you will grow better ones". Think I'm kidding? He actually said it to a student who subsequently tried to commit suicide. Segovia was a Nazi-supporting cunt. His musical attitudes reflected his concealed political allegiances.
What a great guy! I would have been very unlikely to react with such maturity and wisdom, and I'm 62 Even so, I do think that fingerings are to some degree a personal choice, where taste and who you are as an artist at a particular moment come into play. Are you trying to be Segovia, or to express what you hear as a possibility in the music at a particular time in your life. What you hear will change as you develop, and there is surely no final word, or completely authoritative version.
My friend Fred Benedetti played the Chaconne the same day and Segovia mostly hummed along to stress a cantabile quality and then praised his approach vs a cold rendition reminding us all that Bach fathered 20 children! Watch Oscar Ghiglia play La Frescobalda in an old master class: he changed fingerings and added an extra variaton and Segovia was delighted.
Everyone has there moments. Segovia had quite a few. He lived a very public life. A lot of people were intimidated by him. He would often take advantage of this to have a little fun. He could charm your socks off if he liked, but many people were put off by him, others regarded him as a saint or even God. He was human with faults like everyone else. Regarding his work on the guitar, he earned his position, but the instrument did not stop with him.
Segovia devoted his whole life to discipline and the Catholic tradition of obedience. He had to follow exactly what the superiors told him to, he had no chance for mistakes. He had to follow the perfection of what the composers wanted with the piece. In that unforgiving world, he expected everyone to play exactly his way.
Very humble man. If it'd been me, my temper would've snapped and I'd've broken my instrument on his head and stormed out. Never would've learned a thing and been famous on every headline: "Man hits Segovia over the head with guitar." I do wish more artists played with the portamenti and vibrato that make the instrument truly sing. These days, people want to be machine-like and precise. Very stogy.
OK I think this guy is amazing. I would LOVE for him to be my teacher. I do the same thing all the time! I would play the way i feel sounds best. I always change other people's work to my liking. That is not a bad thing, otherwise we should just listen to computer generated music.
This is an example of what John Williams said. " Segovia bullied students into playing his way". Ironically tho, according to Julian Bream, the composer Villa Lobbos didn't like the way that Segovia played one of his Preludes and told him not to play it in concert!.
Who the world do some of these people think they are to be criticizing Segovia? One was there to LEARN from him, not for an “everyone’s a winner” trophy to take home to mommy. Even Chapdelaine himself acknowledged that as much in the interview afterwards.
Apparently this experience devastated Michael Chapdelaine. There's a recent interview of him where he claims that he lost concert bookings and other engagements almost overnight. He plainly says that it devastated him and ruined his classical guitar career in a way. Here's that link to his recent interview ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DminHkp_PUg.html
I will never listen or respect Segovia again. There is no justification for his inhumanity and harm he meted out to Michael. Michael is so gifted. Men or women of lesser strength of character could have had a terrible outcome. Cruelty from a teacher is inexcusable.
Kaimi is fully wright... The reason why we go to the masterclasses is to see opinion and way of the lecturer, and after we reproduce it there, we can freely decide is it good for our playing or not... But, possibility to accept and develop other ways in interpretation is way to become a full builted musician.
I totally agree with your comments "tenstringguitarINFO"... I attempted to learn the Bach's Chaconne (Segovia's edition). I realized that his fingerings were so heavy and impossible to play and would not sound like "Baroque". After I listened to David Russel's Chaconne, I dropped Segovia !
John Williams wrote in his autobiography that Segovia bullied his students and was a social snob. I didn't even understand much of what Segovia said in this video. Just a few words of English sprinkled here and there.
"- One moment, one moment... you give me this. Is the transcription... my transcription, but you have modified all the fingering, por qu... why? - Just decisions i made. - Do you think that it's better what you have found? - No - Then, why do you play it? - I think it's good. - Mmmmmm... i don't mind, that is for you. - (músic) - ...and you cut all the portamentos. I'm no very rich in portamentos myself. I criticise Tárrega and Pujol and all this people. But there are portamentos that are necessary! The guitar is not a dry instrument! I don't know many of the people that are coming, but to me... pa pa pa pi po pa pa pa pi pi po pi pa pam (indicating that they play without portamentos, just technically, without emotion) Continue... - Taroreiraró! Eso es! There is prison... eh, eh, eh... pression! (portamento) Very only that? (is that what he says?), and then? - Well listen, if you have to play my transcription, play my transcription! Otherwise go to another person that makes better transcriptions that I. Fuera!"
In the day you had to get Segovia's blessing to get a gig in that world. So everyone was scared to death of him. He set himself up as the only authority on the subject and no one dared oppose his judgement. Kiss his ssss or forget a career. Not one in a thousand can make a living at it so most play popular music in small gigs and make alot more than they ever did as classical guitarists. Others end up teaching or quitting altogether. The music isn't popular anymore thats it.
I got the same impression too. He was making excuses for him. Had it been me, I would have been pissed that I spent all that money on a masterclass only to be told to leave because I played a passage in a different position.
According to one of his biographers, in the late 20s Segovia set the following logic: what did not please him on the guitar, was not feasible. That logic gave Ponce a lot of overwork. For instance Segovia disliked playing bariolage or a campanella. Hence he stated that the prelude from BWV 1006, written for violin and filled with 2nd intervals, could not be played on the guitar. Same logic in this video: his transcription of Mallorca is the only way to play it on the guitar. Anything different is not musical. The "continue, I don't mind" @ 1:21 reminds me of myself learning Asturias in the 80s: "what if I play this chord like this?"; "do as you like", was the huffy reply. Edit: just to make it clear, the guitar teacher who replied was not Segovia 🙂 but greatly admired him, as much as I do.
It’s to my understanding that the Segovia fingerings sound better, but they’re much harder. Christopher Parkening talks about this in a couple videos you can find on RU-vid. He changed the fingerings Segovia made, and Segovia was livid. He told Parkening to come back the next day with his fingering. And Christopher Parkening admits that they sounded much better.
If you believe this for one moment then you have got blinders on, my friend. MC expanded the repertoire in new ways with his own compositions which are not simple, by any stretch. So he has arranged a few pop tune. So did Brouwer & Takemitsu. Barrueco and many others have recorded lots of the stuff. MC may have left your party, but he is not washed up any more than anyone else. I am speaking as one who has presented MC three times in the last two years, and will very likely present him again.
I had a master class with Mr. Chapdelaine and got my teenager monster ego blown out of the water in a similar fashion. This is funny at poor Mr. C's expense. I think the issue is musicality. You have to feel the music, eat drink and breathe the music. Musicality is such a fleeting thing on the guitar and can be easily shaken and lost. I think in the end, it taught him a lesson because the guy is a genius now.
@blackhole142 Actually I heard that some of the people Segovia bashed became friends of his and studied under him. I think it was right Segovia to be so stern. He was trying to make the guitar looked upon better instead of some instrument that is not worth composing for. He couldn't just talk to the people softly or they won't take him seriously. He's kinda like a boot camp instructor.
We don't lose money. There is nothing wrong with dropping the word classical, or the tux either. In 1956, we had a folk singers division. No one drew the line then. The repertoire for "solo guitar" has grown by leaps and bounds since that time. Much is very worthwhile. The themes wind up in "more serious works." This has always been the treadition. Our audiences are progressive and appreciate "the guitar." They trust us to deliver a great performance and they are not disappointed.
To these ears Mr. Chapdelaine was barely given his chance to play for Segovia as the Maestro is so unaware of himself and his role here and the effect and influence he had over a young artists career that the constant (from the onset) interruptions deny the arc of interpretation and respect that these beautiful pieces of music and indeed the players deserve.Well navigated M.C.!
@erikolten It's interesting that Chapdeleine himself would disagree with you. It was misplaced confidence, and he knew it after being rebuked by the master. This is what he says in so many words. He needed to be broken in order to be teachable. Simple.
Nadie defiende a Segovia. En este vídeo en ningún momento enfoca la cámara lo que Segovia está leyendo. Sus digitaciones siempre eran con una idea musical, salvo que existan errores de imprenta. Si Segovia, Yepes, José Tomás, etc. escuchan a un alumno tocar una transcripción suya con notas tachadas, dedos cambiados, no creo que se quedaran contentos. Cuando se toca para un maestro, es preciso conocerle antes bien.
Guys this is not about the character of Segovia. Don't judge greatness of a person by his style or character. Segovia was simply great, and was great as a teacher too and if you listen to what Chapdelaine had to say about the experience he confirms it. The main point some of you are missing is that something essential got transferred to Chapdelaine.
Although i agree with what Segovia is saying. There is the need of having personality on the guitar, because it's an instrument which its sound changes a lot from one player to another. It's really an instrument that shows your personality. Therefore portamentos are necessary for that expression/persoinality.
@erikolten Thanks for the reply. Well I like your comment about his teachableness at least that brought him to that level; that's fair. But MC himself says he had only played for 3 or 4 years and was playing a piece by a man who has played the guitar for near 70 yrs. He was with Ponce he says when he wrote the piece. If he is as great as you say what did he seek an audience with the master? As for the being broken comment, just because a value is modern doesnt make it right.
I've just finished reading Michael's description, in The Fretboard Journal, of what actually happened that day and how it pretty much ended his career in classical guitar touring and playing. The phone just stopped ringing! I don't care HOW good Segovia was, there was no excuse for that kind of treatment. Can you imagine someone like Chet Atkins or Les Paul taking the attitude that "if you're not going to play it the way I play it....get off the stage! " ??? Of course not. It just shows Segovia to be an insecure little person.
