Some thoughts from the owner of the watch: I have always been intrigued by this watch, so I bought it to try it out (list is ~$1K, you can find it new, as I did, for a couple hundred less). If I liked it, I’d keep it. If not, I’d flip it. Turns out I’ve kept it. Do I wish it had a sapphire crystal? Yes. Will it become unreadable due to scratches in a few months? No. I have owned and currently own many hardlex crystal watches, and unless you drag your wrists on the ground when you walk, you may have a few small marks after a couple of years, but they will be hard to notice. Is the bracelet garbage? Not quite, but I sure don’t like it. That’s kind of par for the course with Seiko, though, and this one rides on a NATO so well, I’m fine with that. Is the movement below the price range? That depends. The 6R15 movement has been a bit of a crap shoot for me. It always runs within Seiko's laughable standards (+/- three weeks), but normally isn’t too accurate. This one runs somewhere around +1sec/day, so I feel lucky. Otherwise, the movement is a tank, and can be serviced for peanuts, so that’s pretty good in my book. Is it worth the money? Extremely relative question. To me, well worth the money, and I’m happy to have it in my collection. If this were the high end of my collection, I’m not sure if I’d feel the same way. Maybe I would, maybe I wouldn’t, but I’m a Seiko fan, and this is one of my least expensive watches, so I’m happy with it. Overall, it’s very wearable, it is stealthy (not many know what it is or what it cost), it’s extremely durable - especially given that its titanium, and very versatile. It’s a poor man's submariner without being a homage. It’s undeniably Seiko with all that comes with that. One person says that for the money a Monster or an SKX beats it. I guess that depends on a lot of things. I have owned both and still regularly wear my SKX, but I don’t consider either watch in the same league.
The best thing about it is, its very Seikoesque. They do so many awesome things with it, but it does have some admitted drawbacks that don't hold thousands of us fanboys back. Like I said the Seiko consumer will NEVER be satisfied but the Shogun is an undeniably awesome model. Thanks for lending it bro!
I have serious doubt about your honesty, I understand that you are a fan of the brand but it doesn't mean that you have to lie about simple facts...about the price "you can find it new, as I did, for a couple hundred less" as you said..where exactly is that store that sale that model for a couple hundred less? from what I know you can buy Shougun watch like this as a brand new one only from the Japanese give me a link I want to see that a "couple hundred less" of yours...the second thing is the accuracy of that 6R15 of yours +-/1sec a day, realy?....and even let say you are right the 6R15 will not hold that accuracy for long maybe at the moment I wrote those letters the accuracy will drop to +-/6 sec a day and why is that?, it because this movement it not built to that task of accuracy...other than that I agree with you about the mineral glass, it's not that bad as people think...
I've owned several Seiko divers. Monster, SKX007, and the Sumo. I've had 2 sumos with 6R15.. both run about 10-15 sec fast per day. I agree with Bruce.. the 6r15 is in $300 seikos. Seiko also fails on bracelets. I think you're paying for the Titanium case with this one. Oh.. and upgrade the glass! Blued sapphire is so nice. Maybe for $600 this watch would be realistic.
FutureRustandDust Unless you drag your wrists on the ground when you walk? You sure can paint a picture, no one can complain about non sapphire after this.
FutureRustandDust I view my mm300 as the submariner homage... I've yet to scratch the hardlex two years in... I've read that seiko uses varying degrees of hardlex depending on the piece but I don't know how true that is... Either way, like you, I'm a huge seiko fan.. For me the mm300 is one of my most expensive pieces yet... I love it but at that price range I'd of liked to see perhaps a ceramic bezel with sapphire.. The mm300 will be in my collection a long time so time will tell how it holds up I guess.. Either way I'm done buying more models until they can start using sapphire on their 1k and up pieces.
Hi! I live in Japan. Thanks to this video, I could find that Seiko Shogun is a pretty awsome watch. After I watched your video, I went to watchstore near my house and actually saw Seiko Shogun. It was very pretty, and I bought it! Thanks to your video, I could buy so nice watch. Thank you. :)
Great review. So many great options from Seiko. I agree if they want to hold the crown they need to really listen to what we want. We want the impossible for low cost. Seiko you can do it, we believe.
Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. I love Seiko brand, but do not allways understand their choice of mineral crystal and the bad level of bracelet and clasp. They could easily improve in quality and keep a good price! Their authentic diver style watch are unique, but they need to step up their game :-)
Low cost?..Shogun costs 1000$, Marinemaster is 2000$ and they both come with hardlex...The cheapest Swiss brands like Candino, Tissot, Certina come with sapphire even in 300-400$ watches. It seems that Seiko needs to charge at least 10 000$ for a watch in order to give a sapphire crystal and a real quality high beat movement. IMO cheap hardlex crystals, cheap mass-production low beat (21600bph) movements and cheap bracelets hold Seiko into the lower division. I even dare to say that many Seiko ''high end'' models are overpriced for what they offer.
Bruce, I couldn't agree with you more; the 6R15 is fine in a sub $500 dollar watch, but the low beat rate, slow date change and somewhat erratic time keeping are (in my opinion) not acceptable in a $1000 watch. I remember when I first got the Alpinist almost 4 years ago. I was so excited to see how it would perform compared to my cheaper watches with the 7S26. Much to my disappointment, I really didn't notice a difference in performance other than the hacking and hand winding. Meanwhile, the 2824 in my Khaki had a smooth 28,800 bps, instant date change and relatively consistent precision. Seiko needs a movement more in line with the ETA 2824 for their slightly higher end watches.
Hands down one of the best reviews, and photography, of a watch that I can remember seeing! I also agree with your suggestions, especially regarding the crystal. Thanks for a smashing review!
Another great vid. I miss my Shogun. I like the bracelet minus the dive extension. It has an aggressive look with the raised and angled center links. This was one of my most comfortable watches, and one of my largest...two characteristics not usually used to describe the same watch.
Sent mine to Seiko and had the Saphire Crystal with Cyclops over the date window fitted, similar to my SPB 189J1. Great job done and very happy with it should you not be happy with the mineral glass. Great review as well 😉👏👏👏👏👏👏
Since we are making requests to Seiko, make a smaller version of this. 40-41mm, with 20mm lugs. Add the sapphire and a ceramic bezel. Then watch he cult following for this thing EXPLODE! I don’t mind the 6r15.
One month ago I bought the SBDC029 SEIKO Shogun Titanium with the titanium bracelet for 900 $. This is my first automatic watch and I have been wearing it every day. I love this piece of art
I just bought one. The fit of this watch is amazing and it’s soooo light. I like the bracelet. It’s light and the links are original. Yeah the clasp is tiny tiny but it’s light. I’m sure they didn’t want to machine a titanium one that would have added to the cost. 6R15, yeah, would be nice if it was decorated and regulated. But all my 6R15s run around 5 seconds a day. Not bad but indeed something running at 28800 bph is desperately needed from Seiko in this price range. Hardlex doesn’t shatter like Sapphire I heard. Maybe that’s the reason. Maybe it’s lighter too? This watch looks smaller on the wrist than on pics and to me it’s THE affordable watch that really gives the Submariner a run for its money because it’s cool as hell.
I also don't understand Seiko and their use of hardlex. These days anything more than $300-$400 should have sapphire, yet they still use hardlex in even the MM300. Also, ceramic bezel inserts are not expensive anymore. I can't think of any excuse for the higher range of Seikos to still be using easily scratchable aluminum or lacquer bezels.
I really don't get it considering my $500-$600 Coutura and Premier kinetics both have sapphire... and I consider these as inferior to even my Samurai in most regards... even though the Coutura is ten years old, has no scratches and has always worked flawlessly.
Sapphire glass is very reflective and you need to apply anti-reflection material so that's not necessarily good because it will increase the price. Hardiflex is good and doesn't need anti-glare application, and is more scratch-resistant. My old Seiko has gone down to 120 meters underwater even if the glass has 3 big cracks but water did not get in. My new and expensive Swiss diver's watch rated at 200 meters got water in at 150 meters.
So I have that new Grand Seiko high beat Diver. Sue the bracelet is better finished but it’s still pin collar and the clasp is stamped and from a marinermaster 300!! GS Seiko needs to step up their game. Now it makes this a giant value. Offers same titanium and pretty much same clasp! Also as you said it and I looked down at my wrist my hands were lined up in the rocket formation which I never noticed!!
Congrats on yours! Even on the GS line the bracelets are subpar to the similarly priced Swiss offerings. Fortunately the things they excell at like the finish work and wearablility is also enhanced compared to the competition
Bruce Williams yup. This saturation diver is way way way more comfortable than my deepsea was and both beat the omega planet ocean. Finish work is amazing and the 9S85 is the most accurate movement I have ever seen. There has not been one Swiss watch that came even close in accuracy over time.
I’m in love with this timepiece. I’m fine with hardlex. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the 6r15, but I’d like them to stick one of their toughened steel or a ceramic bezel on it. I think the Sumo is under priced with that movement, I’ve already seen Seiko charge more recently for timepieces with that movement in them. I’m sure Seiko have looked at the likes of Omega and other Swiss brands and have seen their marketing strategies selling fairly average watches for silly prices and they feel they can knock out special editions for much more money. I’ve still gotta get one of these Shoguns.
I also was able to swap out a blue tinted, double dome sapphire. I've had it in for two years and no scratches. I actually havent taken my stock Shogun (i love the bracelet) expect to shower in almost two years. Everyday wearer
The video is pure art as usual, but the same can be said for the watch as well. If it was smaller I would have jumped on it years ago. The only thing I dislike is the lack of sapphire, everything else is PERFECT!!
Great video Bruce I flipped mine the hardlex scratched easier than any other seiko I own , the bezel action is tinny and I never liked the bracelet also, agree on the lume best around glad I tried it though was so easy to sell without loss.
Your intros are awesome. Seiko seems to have a problem with chapter ring and bezel alignment. I have many Seikos and more than a few have that problem, even across the price spectrum.
Your macro shots are phenomenal. I own the watch. Was anti bracelet, but now, even for backcountry hikes, revert back to it over the factory rubber, natos, and universal crafter blues. If it fits your wrist, it fits it well. The movement runs a bit more accurate than my MM300 also. Great review.
Nice Watch ! Love how they did the Titanium as well and I agree with you it should have sapphire like the 051, I actually like the Look of the bracelet on it but the clasps are always lacking especially at $1000 price tag! Thx
The Shogun has always given me pause. The Hardlex crystal is an acknowledged sore point at this price (as it is with the Tuna and the MM300), but what I would most like to see is a ceramic bezel insert. To me, the competition comes really hard from the $600 Steinhart Ocean Titanium 500 Premium which provides a domed sapphire crystal, a grade 5 titanium case and bracelet, a much better clasp, a BGW9 engraved and lumed ceramic bezel, an exhibition case back, 500 meters of water resistance, and a 4 Hz ETA 2892A-2 movement. As much as I love Seiko products, I believe the Shogun is priced about 30% higher than it should be. I agree with all your other points, Bruce. In my experience, the 6R15 doesn't offer that much over a 4R35 to warrant it being considered a premium movement and stamped metal clasps at this price point is disappointing. They go for around $700 on the used market and even then it's not a slam-dunk purchase. A shame because I do think the watch is handsomely-designed. Thanks for the video as always. You are getting your momentum back and it is wonderful to see.
This watch is so unbelievably comfortable. I just bought the new green dial cave diver and I have no real complaints. As Bruce said no watch is perfect.
I picked up the Shogun 3 months ago. Spent $40 on a double domed sapphire crystal another $40 to have it installed, plus $20 shipping. I agree it should of had sapphire to begin with but if you love the case, like I do, for $100 the sapphire really takes the watch to another level.
I'm so curious about your criticisms of the bracelet. Collar pins are super secure and you don't have to muck about with locktite and scews. The clasp being "cheap" has nothing to do with comfort, if anything a stamped clasp is thinner and is *more* comfortable than a milled one. Bracelet thickness too.. thinner is generally more comfortable.
NIce review and all valid points. Important point - you call this a thousand dollar watch. They can be had for much less - mine was $670 shipped. And for that price, I can live with the negative aspects. Still, a lot of watch for the money and one I probably won’t part with. Seiko like so many companies get so much right and then fail to execute on the simpler details (sapphire crystal and bracelet. And chapter ring aligment issues which still persist). Overall, a pretty nice watch …. thanks for your review.
Hi Bruce Could you please do a comparison video to the new SBDC061? And let’s know which one to go for if you would want to spend $1000 on a Japanese diver’s watch. Cheers from Liverpool, UK
Sold my Shogun for the exact reasons you cite. If they could just improve those with the same features they've got on the SBDC051, they'd be fine. That watch seems to have sapphire, diashield, a quality bracelet, etc. and it sells like crazy. Just copy those features and add slight bump in price for the titanium and they'd have a winner.
I've got a Seiko kinetic, bought it 20 years ago, looks good, keeps good time but it's a Seiko. If you want to buy a watch to know the time you don't need to spend a lot of money but beyond that it's all about image. That's why people spend insane money on watches, it's a badge they want other people to notice.
I think I might be to hung up on sapphire crystals and ceramic bezels. I expect watches in this price range to have both, but it’s not really necessary. I even want my phone to be made from these materials.
had the first version 007 , sold it , then missed it. bought the 2nd iteration 029, sold it , dont miss it. both had sporadic timekeeping at best , plus no sapphire is quite underwhelming . at the time it was $700 , though , a few years back. I have an alpinist now, and the timekeeping seems to be ok with this 6r15 , so maybe theyve corrected those issues.
The Shogun is my favorite watch. I wear it all the time. But you’re absolutely right, the main problem is the crystal. I scratched it early on and I’m not sure how to replace it. I would appreciate any advice.I would prefer to get a sapphire crystal. I brought it to watch repairer a couple of days ago ,and she said they could replace the crystal but it probably wouldn’t be anywhere near as waterproof as before.
It’s a great watch. You’d think there are some pretty important reasons that Seiko must have pondered over for decades regarding a 4Hz movement at this price
For around $1000 mark, there are various swiss made watches which comes with sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel and superior water resistance, 300 or higher. I would buy this watch for maybe half the price, but for me, it's not worth $1000. Seiko is a great brand, however when it comes to mid range watches, they tend to cut corners (maybe with exception of alphamist and SAR family). I think seiko is mostly worth it if you're going for entry level watch, or the grand seiko range.
funny i don't see any problems with the bracelet. In fact it is a very nice lightweight well designed and it is complementing the shape of the watch case IMO.
I have that watch and I have mixed emotion about this watch, the best feature of that watch is... that titanium, people may think that titanium is like any other titanium on the market and they will be wrong completely, the treatment make that titanium that great... it's increase the durability to scratches. the hardness compare to 316L steel is 5 time more but I have disappointment....the movement 6R15 IS NO GOOD AT ALL even in a 400$ watches IT WILL BE NOT THAT GREAT, the second thing that bother me is the ROTATE BEZEL , I don't like the action of it, it's too stiff...the mineral glass (hardlex) is good and I have no problem with that...the bracelet is OK. in the end the magic and character of Seiko still working
Thank you for this video, man. Totally and wholeheartedly support your points! Are you listening, Seiko? Meanwhile, I personally would choose the best Rolex homage watch - it checks all the boxes foe me.
I love it, but at this price point they need to up the water resistance ante a little. 300m isn't a lot to ask for, nor a lot to incorporate. In fact this size of a diver should be 500m. If they want to make a serious dive watch, it needs serious WR.
I am not a fan of titanium but with that aside, the issue here is as you say, Seiko makes other models that undercut it with the same meat and potatoes. This is why I find the Sumo the best balance of all Seiko divers because it is finished way better than say a SKX, but at about 400-500, it just stops on the Seikos over 1k (until you reach like GS level). Not saying the Sumo is better than the more expensive but usually the difference is not 2x-5x in quality.
Venus Dee I'll agree with you at the price point I love my Sumo. Honestly I think the next step up is the MM300 at around 1800$ then GS. Otherwise there is no better deal in Seikos line up than the Sumo.
evvignes, for about 80 or 90 bucks you can also add the MM300 clasp or just add a strap code bracelet if this is something you wanted to change as well. I dont mind the bracelet, bot a huge fan of the clasp but not enough to change it.
Personally, I would not let a Hardlex Crystal disuade me from this watch. I have two Seiko’s with Hardly and use both of them as semi-beaters. I don’t baby either of them and have never had the slightest mar on either of them. Other manufacturer’s mineral crystal seem to show small scratches after a few months and the Seiko’s have both been in service for over two years with no problems. I love sapphire as much as anyone, but the price would have to go up to have sapphire. JMTC!
This watch looks great. Titanium demands a higher price point no question, however, 6R15 movement, Hardlex mineral crystal and cheap bracelet makes this a $700-$800 watch at best.
That's a $400 dollar watch at the highest as there are swiss dive watches with ETA 2824 movement, saphire crystal and a better bracelet for half the price of this watch. Excellent review with honest analysis.
After seeing what German brands provide for the money (even when looking just at the movement and how it is adjusted) I can't pay €1k for this anymore. Seiko used to be all about value for money, but lately they're expanding towards the Swiss marketing model. Orient is picking up the slack thankfully (on the Japanese end).
Bruce, I've really got to disagree on the downsides of the watch. It's next on my wish list, but I haven't made the move yet. The Hardlex crystal is a perfect fit for the toolish nature of the watch - it's way better than standard mineral crystal - I find the Hardlex crystals on my other Seiko divers to be just shy of unscratchable, though the recessed crystal design in most Seiko divers helps that significantly. The resistance to shattering compared to sapphire makes it is a logical choice instead of sapphire. Then there's the reflectivity - Hardlex and mineral crystal are notably superior to sapphire in this regard. The only sapphire crystals I've been 100% satisfied with have dual sided high grade AR coatings - not the fashionable colored coatings on most aftermarket crystals. I also think the 6R15 movement is the right choice. It could stand to be regulated, but I have no problems with the great 21600 bph workhorse movement from Seiko. It's pretty much indestructible, and is a good step up from the 7S26 and even 4R36 movements. A higher grade movement would not be worth the price increase for a tool watch like this IMHO. As far as downsides - I agree that the bracelet isn't the most appealing. I would have liked to see the ratcheting clasp design from the MM300 and Tuna bracelet, and a better looking link design. But you can't have everything, and I don't usually wear my watches on bracelets. RAF style straps for me - no bulky NATOs in my drawer, and certainly none like the hideous (IMHO!) "Shogun" one you have! I don't mind the celeste-ish green color, but I'll take my straps simple and classy, thanks. Speaking of "Shogun", I intensely dislike that nickname. It doesn't really have anything to do with the watch design, unlike all of the other Seiko nicknames out there. I don't have anything better though... I'm not sure about the bezel design - it’s not my favorite, and I tend to prefer those with a concave design to protect the bezel printing and crystal. The biggest disappointment I have with the design is the 3 o'clock crown. I love Seiko's 4 o'clock crown designs (I'm sensitive to crowns digging into my wrist), and given the large diameter of this watch, it would be a perfect application for it. Still, I love the case design like you, and it - and the Diashield titanium - are the highlight of the watch for me.
Looking into getting a Higher end seiko or citizen been looking at this, the Bn2036 citizen aqualand, the sbdc051, and either the sbdc047 or the sbdc039, or the seiko tuna 033 or 031 not having a chance to see all of these in person could you give me any advice on value, wrist presence and versatility? Doesn’t have to be new, do you have any other suggestions I may have left out? Keep up the good work!
I really like my Shogun. Pros: sharp design, lightness of titanium, amazing lume. Cons: bracelet isn’t articulated very well and feels tinny, bezel action is HORRIBLE on mine. I even had a new bezel ring/spring installed, didn’t improve the bezel action at all. The bezel action is sloppy, gritty and it makes me wince every time I use it.
The problem is that it will be practically illegible after a few months. Hardlex is a scratch magnet. I don't drop $1000 on a watch to turn around and swap the crystal. Otherwise, a very nice piece.
What are the functions/differentiations of the various Seiko product groups? I went to their website and couldn't find most of the better Seiko watches I've seen reviewed on YT.
Seiko remind me of a Japanese cars does what it says but if you want something special in a watch you got to buy a swiss watch .I ve had a few seiko s over the years perfect time keepers and durable also got a sea master chronometer totally different ball game
Good watch mine kept ok time for the first 18 months of her life running abit slow but within the specs. How'd 20th years later my shogun probably runs 1 minute a day slow which is obviously not good enough.As far as scratches go mine has held up no complaints their...Just my thoughts.
What’s your opinion on this vs an orient saturation? Size, finish, movement etc obviously the orient is going to be much heavier and has very thick sapphire. Was also wondering if you have had any experience with the transocean chronograph these are the 3 I’m between
No sapphire, movement found in $300 watches, sub-par bracelet. I think it's a cool watch for $500 but I'm having trouble seeing how this is worth $1k. Save a few $100 more and get yourself a used Omega diver or save another $1k and get a used blackbay.
That's the thing about Seiko divers, us fans who are comfortable dropping 1k or more on a Seiko usually have already tried Swiss luxury and used Swiss or entry level Swiss luxury doesn't quite excite like the craziness of a unique Seiko can
I'm sorry but there is just no way I'd pay 1000 dollars for a non sapphire crystal watch. No way. Makes absolutely no sense to me why they do this and why people buy them. I'll spend elsewhere.
"Makes absolutely no sense to me why they do this" -- Probably $15 difference in production cost. Seiko is pathologically cheap. Hence the horrid Seiko bracelets, too.
I owned the Seiko Shogun with sapphire. Magnificent watch. BUT, at this price point we need a better regulated movement and better clasp. Other than that, if the Seiko Shogun (with sapphire) was my only watch the rest of my life i would be very very happy with that.
Ow and one thing about the bracelet and clasp, one can say anything negative about it as one wants, but this watch wears as comfortable as any watch i ever owned/handled.
Most of the money is wrapped up into the titanium case . Titanium is tough to work with. This all in all is the quinticential tool watch . IMO I think this can even be pulled off in with a suit like a Sub.. 😎😎😎
I do not understand the obcession with movement. Good Finishing in brushed and polished areas of the case, dial, hour markers, etc are more difficult to do and are more costly. Saphire? Come on, that is nothing. But seiko will do it because the market wants.
