SELLING PRINTS - PART 2: Owning a Landscape Photography Gallery 

Cheers mate appreciate that

Cheers mate glad you enjoyed it, yes much better balance in my life for sure. Happy Xmas 👍👍

Thanks Neil glad you enjoyed it, yes it’s something that certainly in photography is vastly overlooked, the printing aspect is made out to be of most importance because it’s the thing photographers can most easily relate to, when in reality if that print is not presented correctly all of that becomes moot.

Thanks George yes the framing thing always baffles me, though it's more a reflection of how little it's discussed in the community and the scarcity of information available for photographers, the narrative has always been 'print, print, print' and nothing else.

Thanks mate you too have a great Xmas

Cheers mate aye I had a bad time of it pre-2018, best decision I’ve made taking that shop on. Happy Xmas all the best for 2021 pal

Thanks glad you found it informative 👍

Cheers Craig

Cheers Andy much appreciated

Thanks glad you enjoyed it :-)

Thanks mate glad you enjoyed it, Merry Xmas 👍

Thanks very much David yes you’re right it’s definitely art more than science! People make some odd choices that’s for sure!

@@StuartMcGlennon how do you feel about selling prints that are neither mounted nor framed? Selling framed images online is fraught with shipping challenges (fragile glass and high rates). I lost a key partner for retail when my framers closed their gallery in the summer due to Covid restrictions.

Much appreciated Neville have a great Xmas 👍

Cheers Neil thanks for watching, have a great Xmas 👍

Thanks Matt glad you enjoyed it have a happy new year 👍

Cheers mate yeah I wish I could frame everything in that stuff it's amazing

Cheers Steve glad you enjoyed it all the best 👍

Thanks very much that’s very kind yes do pop in when you can, won’t be too long hopefully 👍

No problem thanks very much for watching glad you enjoyed it

No probs thanks for watching

Cheers Darren best wishes to you 👍 yep I can imagine if you’ve already got those skills and you’re a photographer it would be tempting to move into doing your own frames. Might be a good idea once Brexit properly lands, all the framers in this country get the mouldings from Italy!

Thanks Simon have a great Xmas

Haha yes it can be infuriating at times but it’s not worth the energy worrying about really - these people aren’t ever going to be customers so it’s not worth spending time on

Cheers Julian all the best 👍

Cheers Richard 👍

Thanks Diane glad you enjoyed it 👍👍

Cheers bud and to you 👍

Cheers Andrew 👍

No problem glad you found it useful 👍

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Thanks Phil, regards mounting that’ll be covered in the next video as it’s more framing centric - with canvases all images are offered as canvases though for display I mainly stick to framed stuff, I think canvases generally look a wee bit ‘dated’ and don’t always do the images justice as well as a good print

Thanks Michael

Cheers Alan

Thanks Rudi glad you found it helpful 👍

Thanks Paul glad you enjoyed it, I’ll certainly be doing something in future regards books 👍

Thanks Craig :-)

Cheers Geo have a great 2021 :-)

Thanks very much glad you enjoyed it 👍

Cheers mate aye let’s hope you can

Yep definitely, far bigger difference in presentation quality than any camera will achieve to be honest.

Cheers Andrew👍

Cheers Keith yep right next door to fishers I’m in a good spot 👍 also thanks for having a look at the newsletter

Yep it costs and arm and a leg but you get what you pay for! Cheers mate have a great Xmas

Thanks Nick

Cheers bud

Cheers Dave have a great Xmas 👍

Thanks Lloyd, yes I see those videos and immediately roll my eyes a bit as they’re quite a cheap attempt at ‘mining for content’ which I’ve no interest in doing, if it bores me then I won’t do it. At some point I will do something more on my photographic background etc though it’ll always be woven in to some sort of video where I’m out in the field as ultimately it’s the landscape photography I want folk to tune in for rather than the desk-based stuff I see a great many doing. Have a great Xmas 👍👍

Hi Kevin thanks for watching, yes it's the side of photography that 99% of photographers have no real idea about - folk get so wrapped up in megapixels and sharpness charts then when they finally come to print and frame it's stuck behind cheap glass or the wrong paper, which renders a lot of the equipment choices that proceeded it moot. I'll stand by the statement I made recently with another photographer that a 12mp file shown under good light with the highest grade museum glass will look noticeably better than a 40mp file with poor, highly reflective glass, the difference is night and day. But as you say, costs are really prohibitive, I only use it on request though even then customers have a hard time seeing the value. It's why I always have a sample on show which really helps.

Cheers Kevin

Cheers Drew yep it’s definitely well worth a look for comparison

No probs Andres thanks for watching

Cheers Mick 👍👍

Thanks glad you enjoyed it

Thanks Simon much appreciated 👍

Hi Stuart. As we are in the final throws of this pandemic hopefully I wanted to ask you for a bit of advice. I mentioned previously that I wanted to set up a gallery of my own down in t(e South West of England. With the high street decimated before and after covid do you think it is too risky to set up a fine art photography gallery. Would you set one up now in this current climate. People think I should just stay as I am selling online, but I feel I can achieve much more by selling through a gallery. I have run a successful photography business in a different genre in the past for 23 years so I know what I’m doing, but I’ve never had a shop front premises. I guess I will never know unless I take the leap.

Cheers mate aye not too bad, I’ve actually got a bit more time this year as the restrictions have hit tourist trade hard so it’s been a bit pointless opening over xmas. Enjoying being at home for sure! Merry Xmas

Cheers Howard thanks for watching, have a great Xmas

No worries mate hope you’re well, yes I’d highly recommend Scott you can find him on Instagram and Etsy at Studio 18 Picture Framing

@@StuartMcGlennon Ok cheers mate, yes all good apart from the fact I just can't get out !!! Never mind, just have to roll with it, hope you're good.

Cheers Tom much appreciated

Thanks Ian sorry I missed your comment yes it's been a great summer sales-wise thankfully :-)

Cheers Steve i'd highly recommend my framer he does an excellent job and ships nationally, also has a store on etsy and ebay he's here: www.ebay.co.uk/str/studio18pictureframing

Yep totally agree

Thanks for watching Khalid glad you enjoyed it - pricing work is a highly subjective thing though I will cover it for sure in a future video

@@StuartMcGlennon it is massively subjective like all artwork, I think we need to look into the variables that we need to consider when structuring a price for a piece of work. Cheers mate!

Cheers mate, monitor brightness generally I’d say you should always edit with it set slightly dark, so if it’s out of the box at 50 have it at 40. Of course you can offset this by having your monitor brighter and then as you say knocking the exposure value up, either work though I find I get more accurate results editing from this starting point. Vast majority of photographers set the monitor too bright which is why the tip of adjusting the exposure before print is often mentioned. Put it this way, I never have to increase my exposure on the tiff file I send to castle and the exposure on the final print is bang on

Merry Xmas pal - christ competitions that's a labyrinth! Good idea for a future video though, i'll have a think

👍👍thanks

Thanks for watching John, haha yeah the ikea frame, they’re perfectly adequate in most cases just be aware it’ll probably warp in a few years, though more importantly the quality of glass (or lack of in that case!) in any frame is more important than anything. It can render the best quality lenses and equipment useless if it’s framed behind glass that washes the image out. The pricing is always a tricky one and is something 99.9% of my peers never have to worry about as they largely don’t sell any prints in any great volume. I’m fully aware my work should be priced a lot higher than it is given my standing and when compared with other photographers at a similar standard, however Joe punter on a high street doesn’t care about any of that and will have a totally different opinion of landscape photography to what photographers themselves think. For a huge majority of landscape photographers they exist in a bubble as far as the commercial side of things goes. It’s why when seeing any video from a landscape photographer popping up on here advising on selling prints I’d take it with a pinch of salt as you can guarantee no matter how big a profile they have on RU-vid, they simply don’t sell prints in any great volume, I know this as I speak to them. No-one does unless they have a shop front - that’s the commercial reality of the industry in the current era as there’s no getting round the inescapable reality that virtually all customers want to see the product before they buy it, which pretty much all photographers cannot provide beyond a small image on a website.

@@StuartMcGlennon Interesting stuff Stuart & I appreciate the detailed reply. From the amateur perspective (which I most certainly am) I have no commercial interest whatsoever in trying to sell prints etc. just an interesting in producing my own works of art to hang in my house & certainly your pointers on frame/ glass/ paper selection in these few videos were really useful so thank you again for that. Good luck with the Gallery (I will visit for sure one day) & looking forward to seeing future vlogs. thks.

Thanks Ian, for delivery of framed stuff they’re shipped in non reflective styrene (actually more expensive than glass) which is shatterproof - anything framed in standard glass or museum is collection only. Very few if any couriers insure against glass, though all deliveries of framed stuff are very heavily bubble wrapped also so there’s no damage to the frame

Thanks Ian, with the Otterbield image I tend to frame in one of the dark distressed ones, definitely not light oak or bright frames, the size print you have i tend to mount them as 16x12's. I guess if you're thinking of showing your own in the shop you can only try a few and see, my advice if selling in the shop is to sell them framed, people often prefer not having to go and frame themselves either because they're lazy or have bought unframed in the past and never got round to doing it so dissuades them from buying in the future unframed. The key is to have samples of others on hand if they want a different finish

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Cheers Douglas

I've found the smooth pearl from Fotospeed excellent on both price and performance, I usually choose the fine art textured for the limited edition prints

@@StuartMcGlennon OK, Canson and Hahnemuhle papers are expensive, but the prints are a lot nicer than any other paper I've tried. Red River has good papers, but the shadow detail isn;t as good as the other two. I haven't tried Fotospeed. I do like Canson luster and semigloss, and Hahnemuhle pearls and William Turner. I may try Fotospeed, but I'm happy with what I use.

Hi Terry glad you enjoyed it, to answer your questions - firstly the museum glass I use only on the ltd prints at A1 size, basically it costs a fortune (3/4 times standard glass) so at the moment isn’t cost effective though in the future I’d like to move to it. It has a far bigger effect on the print than a 50-60mp sensor which is then framed behind duller glass, though most photographers aren’t aware of this. In terms of outsourcing again it isn’t cost effective to invest in £3k wide format printer currently when it may take 18months/2 years to recoup the savings. I have an A2 printer which can do 60-70% of the stuff I need for cheaper. The lab provide such simplicity and quality at great prices that it’s far less hassle than doing the big panos myself. If I did that you then end up down the labyrinth of having to invest in large mount cutters and mountboard which is also very expensive (the cutter anyway). My lab use the same paper as me and of course have their papers profiled so they get the same results I get. Generally no I don’t get much grief from online customers bar my courier cocking up a delivery which they occasionally do! For home printing I’d probably get an A3+ printer to start with, 19x13 is still a good size though the printer and inks are much cheaper

Thanks John glad you enjoyed it, most of the time I’ll cut myself though I’ve used a company called Frith and Co as a backup for pre-cut ones if I can’t get the consumables on time. Most of my stuff comes from Larsen Juhl and Lion

@@StuartMcGlennon Thanks for the reply. I tend to cut my own but always on the look out for options.

Thanks Neil 👍

Thanks Julian - pricing is a tricky one as many factors are involved. My market on a high street has a huge bearing on this, but also cost to produce/the quality and rarity of the image and also your standing and reputation as a photographer. 99% of photographers be it on here or otherwise don’t sell many prints at all so generally charge quite high prices as there’s no pressure on them to sell in any volume.

Hi John between the issues which followed with lockdowns after this point and a further occasion where I attempted to film it but my audio failed me the follow up hasn’t been done yet though it will be for sure 👍

No problem Richard thanks for watching - to answer your questions, in terms of margins as rule you should always be aiming for at least 3/4 times cost which is what I generally work to though ultimately your market will dictate this. For bigger framed pieces and Ltd editions this can be of course higher so some of my prints vary quite widely depending the value I attach to the image (some images are MUCH harder to attain than others) . In terms of volume I'd imagine in total sales across the year it'll be in the late hundreds without looking at the figures. Employing someone? It could work if the business is profitable enough, though for me my main concern would be having a person who is knowledgable about the product and could give some context to the pictures with prospective customers. In my experience having the ability to tell the story of how a picture has been made to a customer really is invaluable, you would always lose this a touch by employing someone.

Thank you so much Stuart for taking the time to give such a valuable and honest reply to my questions. Once again your support is very much appreciated.

Cheers Huw, all delivered frames are in styrene anti glare to avoid them shattering via APC - with greetings cards no I don’t do them to make any kind of return on them takes too long given how many need ordered to make them cost effective, I hardly get any requests for them and also it’s not really a market I want to go down with the gallery. Have a great Xmas 👍

@@StuartMcGlennon Thanks Stuart. I was in a general art gallery some years ago and in truth it was things like card and calendars that sold best - the larger stuff always took more time to shift. I gradually worked out how to make cards and calendars myself so that I could make small print runs, and use the "handmade" label honestly. Keeping the styrene layer on the glass is a killer technique by the way. Had not thought of that approach. Hope Dorset open studios will be back on again in 2021 so I can have another go. All the best chap, and every success for 2021.

The museum stuff has a few different price points, the top grade stuff is very expensive but the ones lower down aren’t too bad

@@StuartMcGlennon Cheers I'll take a look

Hi Rob thanks for watching - to answer your question it’ll boil down to how much you think you can sell it how many you produce. Investment in a decent mount cutter is quite expensive though over the long haul would save money, just depends how long you’re willing to wait and the volume you produce. The mount/back/bag sets aren’t bad value if you print in low volume to be honest, I’ve used Frith and Co in the past who provide decent value I’ve found. Regards framing, you could probably do a reasonable ion yourself for personal use with rudimentary equipment though if I was selling anything I’d really leave that to a framer

@@StuartMcGlennon thank you so much Stuart 👍👍👍

Thanks

I've used Hahnemuhle previously who are great also and certainly on par - Fotospeed here in the UK have built up a great reputation off the back of working directly with landscape photographers to develop their papers and also provide really excellent customer service and custom paper profiles which many other companies don't provide. The papers great though I'd not say they're any 'better' than the others you mention, all will do a good job.

I'd say 90-95% is Lake District work with some Scottish stuff sprinkled in - Keswick is very much a tourist market, this combined with my shop being quite small means I don't have a lot of flexibility to be too experimental with the locations and subjects I display. When I move into a bigger unit I'll have more room to display a wider range of subjects and styles which are perhaps more inkeeping with the subjects I like to shoot on a personal level.

It could but you run into potential issues with prints fading quicker and also the risk of damage.

Hi Paul, metal prints are quite niche, in terms of quality with the right image they can look stunning, though in terms of sales I’ve found there’s little demand for them. I’ve produced them in the past (I’m actually taking delivery of a huge 1.5 metre one on acrylic tomorrow for a client) and what ends up putting customers off is production cost. For me to make any kind of decent profit on them I have to either order in bulk (where there’s no real demand) or put a huge markup on them to offset production costs.

Yep it makes a huge difference to the presentation

Thanks Gordon much appreciated - link to my printer is here: www.castle-picture-framing.co.uk/

@@StuartMcGlennon Thanks Stuart & all the best for 2021

Hi Stew, great question - of course as photographers we want to be sure of the paper quality and it’s archival longevity (I’d be mortified if I was selling stuff that faded after 10 years) but in the real world customers don’t care (or I’ve certainly never been asked the question). They are concerned if it’s a canvas print (different process entirely) where there’s a lot of cowboys out there using stuff that fades quickly, but as far as prints go, no the paying punter isn’t interested, they’re far more concerned about the look of the frame.

@@StuartMcGlennon Thanks, good to know

Hi Thomas I think I covered this but large panoramic style images tend to sell more than most, maybe 60-70 percent. In terms of other materials yes I print onto acrylic / dibond etc. though I don’t tend to stock them in the shop as the material costs to produce them is much higher vs potential for them to sell. Most of the time customers won’t pay the prices I’d need to charge for them to make it worthwhile buying the stock but they are there as an option it people wish to buy them.

@@StuartMcGlennon Very helpful. Thanks for the prompt response!

Thanks mate yes it’s a side of the industry that little is known about to the casual viewer especially on RU-vid - this platform has it’s merits though it’s not always great at presenting reality. I do run workshops and residentials like they do too, I just don’t have perhaps the same ‘need’ to push them quite as much as it’s not my main source of income like theirs

Thanks 🙏

No idea mate nothing is blocked in the settings at my end

@@StuartMcGlennon It was a post about how I displayed small unframed prints in my gallery many years ago. I'll try again. There was a link in it, maybe that was a problem. I've tried again below.

It's disappeared again! I'll try without the link.

Hi Stuart. I just found your channel and love your laid-back format. Subbed. 25 years ago I also had a small gallery, I found my biggest sellers were smallish (8x10 I think) photos, mounted and sometimes matted but not framed. I simply shrink wrapped them and put them in what I used to call "flip throughs". If you've ever searched for a vinyl album in an old-style record store you will know what I mean. Here is a (very poor) photo of three such flip throughs [link was here] In the right one the photos are printed with wide borders and just laid onto foam core then shrink wrapped. In the left two the photos are the same but they also have a grey matt. Note that these were ALL hand-printed in my darkroom then mounted and matted by me, which was time consuming but I had templates for everything and could knock them out very quickly. Also the sizes were an exact sub-multiple of the standard board sizes so it just needed 4 cuts to get 9 matts and the same with the backing boards (once again I think, it's been a few years). I found this approach had two benefits. Firstly many people travelling could fit such an item in their luggage, especially if flying as they weighed almost nothing and could easily be laid flat in between their sweater and dressing gown (or whatever). Secondly I could fit a huge number of images in a small space. This was important as my gallery was about the same size as yours from what I can see. I did see that at some point you had something similar (but larger prints) in the center of the room. Another side effect was that people would often see these small versions but ask if I could do a large one, like you see on the wall behind in the above photo. Without seeing the small one they would never have know the image existed. Anyway that's my 2c worth, it's been a quarter of a century and times may have changed, but I think this approach would still have some value.

That worked but another post with just the link disappeared as well. Maybe you have a setting that excludes links in comments. I'll see if I can message you with it.

👍👍no probs thanks for watching