Battle of Castle Black (S04E09) from Alliser Thorne's POV Ser Alliser Thorne rallies the Night's Watch in their defense of Castle Black against Mance Rayder's army.
Loved this scene. It wasn't a "You're not half bad, Snow" or Alliser going. "I like you now and will totally support you" but it was a. "You were right. I was wrong. If we all do our jobs against the real threat we can hate each other tomorrow."
Yes, it was exactly in character for the utter hardass that Ser Alliser is known to be. He earned my respect in this episode though, I remember watching it with friends. He was no coward!
Thorne is a perfect example of the complexity of writing. He is an antagonist to the protagonist, but unlike normal, terrible shows he isn't evil or corrupt just mean spirited but wants the same goal as the protagonist, from different methods. Excellent writing, he's less fleshed out in the books, but the blacksmith fills half of the reliability.
One of the down sides to the tv show is that they are necessarily forced to cut out a lot of character background. Thorne isn't a dick to Jon just to be a dick. He has personal grievances against Ned dating back to Robert's Rebellion and has grown bitter having to sit on the wall for 15 years just because he stayed loyal to the wrong King.
mylifefortheoldfish He wasn't in the books, no. I think a lot of the character's complexity in the show is down to Owen Teal's performance. I've been a fan of his for quite some time. Very solid actor.
Thorne is a colossal prick, but he's not a coward and he's not a fool. One more reason to like Game of Thrones... it doesn't have the black-and-white characters other shows love to trot out.
well the show went a bit crazy Alliser wasnt meant to stab Jon but that kinda fit the character: to him letting wildlings in was treason, in his mind he was doing the moral thing
+Mmmmkay126 well no because he was blinded by hatred of the willing so much that he couldn't see that bringing them south of the wall was obviously the right thing to do
" A hundred generations have defended this castle. We've never fallen before! And we will not fall tonight. Those are Thenns at our walls. They eat the fleshh of the men they kill. Do you want to fill the belly of a Thenn tonight?" "NOOOOOO!!" "Tonight we fight! And when the sun rises I promise you Castle Black will stand! The Night's Watch will stand! With me now, now with me!!!" Respect to Ser Alliser
@@jackxiao9702 The nightwatch was doomed anyway, they wouldn't have survived a second night of onslaught from the wildlings. Jon desperate mission wasn't a bad idea in such circumstances
"You know what leadership means, Lord Snow? It means the person in charge gets second guessed by every clever little twat with a mouth. But if he starts second guessing himself, that's the end...for him...for the clever little twats...for everyone." THIS is one of the finest and realistic dialogues ever written.
Amazing how a line written for the show only is this good. Shows when they wanted to, the writers (D and D) could write incredible dialogue. They just chose not to later on.
@@anguswiebe Imo, vulgarity doesn't diminish quality at all. Substance is what matters. Not being as polite as possible and avoiding the use of naughty words.
@@V1ert I think what @NNC Productions Inc. meant was that Thorne learned to fight while he was still young as a lord in a castle.Way before he was sent to the Watch and even before Robert’s rebellion.
Just that image of him being dragged off, wounded, still screaming at everyone "hold the fucking Gate!" is a big part of what makes this character so great
"I SAID NOCK AND HOLD, YOU CUNTS! DOES 'NOCK' MEAN 'DRAW'?" "No, sir!" "DOES FUCKING 'HOLD' MEAN FUCKING 'DROP'?" No, sir!" "ARE YOU ALL PLANNING TO DIE HERE TONIGHT?" "NO, SIR!" "THAT'S VERY GOOD TO HEAR!" By far the most hilarious and inspirational speech of the series :')
Dartanius100 What I love most about it is he's speaking like he's running a training drill. On the one hand, it's hilarious. On the other, it serves to calm and motivate the men.
This series is amazing. It can make you completely loathe a character one moment, then find them completely awesome the next. I hated Ser Alliser Thorne for the entirety of season one, and then in one battle he proved himself to be one the biggest badasses on the Wall. I would be glad to follow him into battle.
There is plenty still to hate about Ser Alliser Thorne but he was always a badass. However he became a badass through bitter experience which turned him into a nasty bastard, as proven by his stories relating to his ranging beyond the wall in Season 1.
***** Yeah I agree with you. You may not like him but you will gladly follow Ser Alliser into battle to die if you have to. You may despise him but you can't deny Ser Alliser sure can kick some Wildling ass. As Commander Mormont said in Season 1, ''I don't need him to be charming. I need him to turn these bunch of thieves and runaways into men of the Night's Watch''.
Krisb BeatS Tormund was just simply stronger. That was actually a pretty nasty cut that he gave Ser Alliser. I wonder is he still alive or is he dead since we didn't see him in the next episode and since Jon said ''Who's left to give orders'', it may be implied that Ser Alliser is dead. I hope he's not though as he has become an interesting character and I would love to see him return in Season 5. Also if you or anyone here has read the books and knows what happens to Ser Alliser, please don't tell me what happens to him
Actually, Thorne has nothing against pampered people. The only thing he has against Jon is the fact that he has the blood of Ned Stark, who rebelled against the Iron Throne years ago. Thorne fought for the Mad King.
Credit where credit is due, D&D made alliser Thorne and Jon’s dynamic so much better. Thorne isn’t cartoonishly evil he just believes in a different harsher style of leadership. The scene between the two of them about second guess was great writing and acting
D&D did pretty well when they framework was in place and they had something to work off of or add to. Once they were in open water and when Star Wars was knocking was when they started to royally fuck things up.
As much as I agree with you I do have to note that the fact that this plays out differently than it does in the books does not mean that D&D are directly responsible. In fact I think several of the really good ‘new’ scenes in season 1, for example, were fully written by George RR Martin himself. That does of course also mean that D&D weren’t always behind the ‘bad’ additions either.
And then they kind of ruin it by not giving the mutiny any real reason to mutiny. Jon in the books is literally being selfish by aging his little sister
The guys only on the wall because he supported the targaryens during Roberts rebellion. The fact he survived the war and was valuable enough to be sent to the should be all you need to know to prove that fact lol
Yeah, they did him justice. In the books he is always an ambivalent character. He is kind of an asshole to Jon and the others, but you can also sympathize a bit with him.
TheGreySpacer I never had the impression that he was more than a cartoon pseudovillain in the books, there are no redeeming scenes that explain why is he always antagonizing Jon ( other than because he is a true highborn and Jon an uppity bastard). But in the show they made him a way more round character.
J Jo In the book he knows that Jon is Ned Starks son, Ned forced him to take the black after they won Roberts rebellion since Allister was with Aerys II at the time.
J Jo SPOILERS actually,in ADWD,when Alliser Thorne is sent beyond the wall,he knows he is probably going to die,and he says Jon something like "I spent a third of my life trying to teach the basics of combat to rascals,paesants and thieves".In that moment,knowing how much frustration and bitterness haunt him(he was sent to a horrible place after he lost the war fighting for the losing side) I symphatized withThorne.
Well I think we just never got the chance to see this side of him. His character is pretty typical. The battle-hardened asshole commander. When there's no fighting going on, he's just an asshole that bosses you around. But I think the actor did a great job in this scene getting the point across that there's a reason he's the new commander of the Night's Watch.
Ser Alliser was once a fairly well known knight sworn to the Iron Throne, He mainly served the Targaryens and was there the day House Lannister pillaged King's Landing. Ser Alliser was wounded and taken captive at which point Tywin Lannister gave him a choice of Death or The Wall. Ser Alliser chose the wall and since then has always been a miserable cunt. In the attack of the wildlings on Castle Black, Alliser's Courage and Leadership shined bright again!
To be fair he was in a Sack protecting the people from the Lannister army who plundered raped and murdered the City. And was punished while the aforementioned pillagers walked free
The fight between Ser Alliser and Tormund was so well choreographed. Very awesome scene, to go from loathing Ser Alliser to hoping he holds Castle Black.
Well, choreographed, rly? 4:25 Tormund is open and unarmored. A slight thrust, and he's dead. Instead Thorne goes for a loooooooooooong-ass swing that a paraplegic would've dodged.
I concur. Thorne is an utter ass, but he's gotten some character development. Some are surprised at how well he can fight, but the fact remains he *IS* a Knight. And there's the fact that in the Night's Watch, surrounded by the cold on all sides and beset by the threat of the Wildlings and worse, you have to be either really smart or tough as nails to rise in rank. It's easy to see why he'd be so bitter: Having lived loyal to the Targaryens, he was given the choice of death or taking the Black. Then there's the fact he's seen truly terrible things beyond The Wall: Men dying and coming back as Wights. Ice-monsters, and other horrible things.
***** Has he seen ice monesters or zombies?? No he hasn't. And the simple fact that he's a knight made him be an officer of the Night's Watch. The other members were so untrained that he didn't have any real competition. As proof of this take the first episode of GOT, we see 3 rangers, who is the leader? 18 years old ser Waymar Royce, even if the other 2 are very experienced rangers. He had just joined the NW.
This scene beautifully shows how a strong leader can turn the tides on the battlefield. Alliser does a perfect job of letting his men know what hell awaits them, but then gives them a dose of invincibility nested in a history lesson. A man who fights without fear is a dangerous thing.
Ser Alliser may be a lousy option as a Lord Commander, but he does a good job as a battlefield commander for a fight like this. A pity he turned traitor at the end of the last season.
+Daniel Haire Depends on the definition of traitor. In his eyes, Jon is the traitor for saving the Wildlings, the very people the Nights Watch are meant to stop crossing the wall. Obviously I understand why Jon did it, but from Ser Allister';s perspective what he did was perfectly in line with his duty.
Top Hattington Except the wildlings weren't the Nights Watch's real enemy. The White Walkers and their undead were the reason the Watch was formed. But without seeing the Walkers for centuries, People like Alliser just transferred that over time to the wildlings who had the objective of getting south of the Wall where it was safe. If Alliser had recognized that and not been blinded by his hatred of the wildlings, he could have been a major player and asset, instead he's only pyre fuel.
Daniel Haire I can sort of see why he would be that way though. There's a great scene way back in Season 1 where Ser Allister tells them about the shit he went through beyond the wall fighting the Wildings. Remember, many Wildlings are rapists and murderers. There's a lot of bad blood between the Night's Watch and the Wildlings, and given how much Ser Allister has given in order to keep them north of the wall, being ordered to just let them pass is a bitter pill to swallow, and is an act of treason in his eyes. Whilst the White Walkers are certainly a threat, simply letting those you've been fighting for so many years at the order of a man you hate is going to change a man like Thorne. Whilst he's an asshole, he's at least got reasonable motivations for what he does.
+Iron Duke Ikr. I admire how loyal he is, and how devoted he is to his duty. I could understand that he was pissed that Jon brought in the Wildings, but he didn't see past his hatred. He should have gone to Hardhome and seen the Night King for himself.
heyheyheyheyheyhey76 what i'v also just realised was that ser Alliser was a Targaryen loyalist during Robert's rebellion, and after the defeat he could chose between death or the wall. so this also explains his hatred for Jon the ''son'' of lord Stark who won the war and got him send to the wall.
Iron Duke Wait until he finds out that Jon is a Targaryen. (I'm not saying it's definite, but I for one believe in the theory. There's quite a lot to back it up.) Robert has often claimed Rhaegar to be a complete savage and a cruel bastard, seeing as he "kidnapped" and "raped" Lyanna. However, in a scene with Baelish and Sansa when they are down in the crypt Sansa says "and he raped her" or something like that, but Baelish looks at her with a slight smirk and look of knowing, so he knows the truth about Lyanna and Rhaegar, and that maybe the latter isn't the monster that he has been said to be, and Lyanna got pregnant with Jon under consensual circumstances. There's also the scene with Daenerys and Ser Barristan, the latter says "Rhaegar never liked killing. He loved singing." Ser Barristan along with Baelish may know very well about what went down in the Tower of Joy. Plus, there's that scene with Melisandre and Jon when she asks him whether or not he's had sex yet. "Are you a virgin?" Now, it may be just a coincidence, but she seduced Stannis, who is the one true King of The Seven Kingdoms, and also Gendry, who even may be a bastard, is legitimately the heir to the Iron Throne, seeing as Tommen, Myrcella and the prick Joffrey (even dead) were all inbred, even if they don't know it themselves, so they have no blood that gives them the Throne. Mel may know about the deeds between Jaime and Cersei and that Gendry is the only one who has blood that lets him have the Throne. She may know about the truth between Rhaegar and Lyanna too, and that Jon is the heir to the Throne, hence her well let's just say "INTEREST" in asking Jon was he a virgin, and thus later trying to seduce him. Sorry I know that's a lot haha. Back to the point, wait until Thorne finds out that Jon is a Targaryen, he'll be thinking "Holy fuck, why did I decide to kill one of the last remaining Targaryens?"
The whole conversation is like: Alliser: You got what it takes to be leader, Lord Snow. Jon Snow: Thank you sir. Alliser: Let's hope we can stick it to them so I can go back to hating you without fearing for my life. Jon Snow: Sounds good to me.
Imagine if Alliser knew that Jon is Targaryen. He'd call him a king and probably become his most loyal servant in a split second. Alliser was one of the few who remained loyal to Targeryens after their fall. It's strange how lack of awareness can make people do horrible mistakes...
you mean layers of lies make people do horrible things? aside from the very obvious HOTD, Princess Rhaenyra childs are *ehem* obviously bastard, but jon is a black hair, plus his character make him every bit of a Stark, so how could anyone tells it was him?
@@saultigh4304I guess, no one really knew shit about him though. Since we're on the topic of secret heritage, I do think It's very bizarre that Ned stark doesn't ever reveal Jon's heritage to Robert and Catelyn, due to the obvious dire consequences of doing so, BUT, he will blatantly, and carelessly reveal joffreys incest to cersie. WHY???? Ned clearly understands conceptually that these kinds of secrets are best left kept safe, but then he still knowingly discloses the most dangerous one to cersie. Disclosing joffreys incest right to cercies face. While also being aware of the fact that the last hand of the king died because of this info too. This starts an entire war. What a fucking idiot. Wtf was Ned thinking? Wtf was his plan? Though irl, Ned would've been untouchable, but still, his choices were fucking stupid.
I love this scene so much. This entire episode was amazing. Jon Snow still completely respecting Ser Allistar's rank and position despite not liking each other, and Ser Allistar indirectly telling Snow he should've listened to him sooner. This is probably my favorite episode of the entire series.
I don't understand why they lit their arrows. Wouldn't it just waste time in firing? It didn't even spread onto the wildling clothing, what killed them was the impact of the arrowhead. They're probably easier to see and dodge by lighting them on fire as well.
@@terrencelozada79 idk man with bullets it works because of the rapid fire rate. with arrows by the time you can rack and draw another shot the target will have moved drastically for tracking the shot to be useful
I'm gunna miss Thorne. He did what he thought was right, lost, and still died like a man. His speech in this clip will forever be one of my favorite moments in GOT. I was so high when I first watched this scene I started cheering with him when he charged. No show has made me do that before.
+Rams4life94 LOL i remember watching this episode for the first time and i was stoned as fuck. giggled like an idiot when Thorne said "i said nock and hold you cunts", then i got super hyped watching this scene... and later cried like a girl when watching Grenn died while reciting the Nights Watch vow
One of my favorite characters. He was a hard man but he was a fair and loyal man. He did what he thought was the right thing. He’s one of the few Crows that had honor.
That is one of the best things I've heard since Tyrion's rallying speech at the Blackwater. "I said nock and hold, you cunts! Does nock mean draw?! Does fucking hold mean fucking drop?! You all plan to die here tonight?!"
Truly, like many others, I loathed See Alliser since the beginning. And I had already read the books (till DwtD), and had read the chapters on the Battle of Castle Black. In the books, See Alliser is more of a hindrance rather than a hero during the battle. But the show... It's amazing to see that they've managed to make brilliant use of the character. Owen plays it wonderfully, and I too have found new respect for See Thorns. Especially his speech while rallying the rangers is absolutely marvellous! The way he battles against all odds, with courage and determination, and all the whole inspiring others around him, it is superb! Long live Ser Alliser!
What an amazing character he turned out to be. Love is accent and his pure loyalty. A real leader, yes Jon was right but the respect Jon gives him even when they hate each other bad. They know there is only one task at hand and that is defending the wall. CASTLE BLACK WILL STANDDDDD!!!
“That’s very good to hear!” What a great accent! This was his moment. Love when Ser Alliser swings around the beam to protect from Tormand…what a great move. Likely learned his swordsmanship from Ser Arthur Dwayne.
Best Battle in Game of thrones so far They said that Battle of bastards is better for many reasons But I say this Battle was the best An entire episode of 55 mins that takes place in one place something wonderful
@@thefilmadvocate6192 Yeah Watchers on the Wall felt the most like a coherent battle in the show. Every strategy and tactic felt well thought out and there wasn't really any plot armor.
This scene alone, is the reason why was I surprised when Thorne betrayed Jon Snow. I was expecting them to develop something of JD/Dr.Cox relationship from Scrubs.
You know what? To think off it, Jon got to learn from so many great characters and important figures - Ned, Rodrick, Benjin, Tyrion, Jeor Mormont, Maester Aemon, Halfhand, Mance, Tormund, Alliser Thorne, Stannis. The guy is friggin groomed to be "Prince Who Was Promised" - Also he's my boy!
Important context is that Thorne fought valiantly at the sack of king's landing. If there was anyone you wanted to stay strong during impossible times it's Thorne or Stannis. Deeper context is that Thorne is at the wall for being a Targaryen loyalist, unknowingly disliking and then respecting his King.
Similar to King Viserys I in HotD, the show vastly improved the character of Alliser from the books. Alliser was a pure foil for Jon in the books, but is given so much more nuance in the show. His opposition to Jon is given a lot more detail, and his motivations make absolute sense. Owen Teale's portrayal has a lot to do with that also
+Abdus-salam Ahmad DO YOU WANNA FILL THE BELLY OF A THENN TONIGHT? NO? WITH ME NOW!!! NOW WITH ME!!!! Anyone who was "happy" at seeing Alliser Thorne's death in the latest episode has to watch this scene again and see if they feel the same way. RIP to a legendary hero.
Jon betrayed the Night's Watch tradition letting pass through the Wall to the Wildlings. And is even worst in the books, he was trying to march south. Alliser did nothing wrong, and he died as a man. F to pay respects
Did you guys notice he has a unique fighting style too? It was cool to see Tormund's wild style in comparison to Thorne's orderly "officer" style of fighting. The man surely is a cunt, but you have to hand it to him, he's a badass mofo.
giantWario In your case, the reason would be: "Skewing facts to make a point," since they didn't name him Giantsbane for fighting Thorne. In any case, like Yogi Berra said, it ain't over till it's over, and anything could've happened if Thorne hadn't fallen from the platform. Ever hear of stabbing someone from the ground? Yeah, it's happened. Furthermore, rolling off of the platform took him out of the fight, not the slice. So, no, it's not winning.
Lietiel ...He fell off barely 5 feets into straws and obviously fell on purpose purely because he wanted to get away from Tormund. Sam outright said this almost killed him and he spent 8 episodes limping after this. Of course its winning, what the hell are you smoking?