+Dulan Abey think about it. Why would Monica react the way she did. Fiona told her she's not her nor Liam's mom anymore. They don't even address her and Frank as "mom" and "dad", just first names cuz the kids don't see them as their mom and dad the way we do to our parents.
+James Karanu That's because "mom" and "dad" are titles one has to earn and not statuses one owns automatically for ones life once one gets children. There comes a time when abused and neglected children understand that. Sometimes their so called parents come to understand that too.
Sometimes parents leave, sometimes they stay, but a bad parent is a bad parent whether they leave or stay. And honestly sometimes when they leave, they are actually doing you a favor.
True. I don't blame bad parents for leaving. But fix yourself and don't think you can come back so easily. The mom jumped the gun and suggested on taking a child. She should have eased her way in by taking responsibilities of the kids one by one. She relied on a dream and not actions.
This. My father was toxic in all of his relationships whether that be with women, friends, co-workers, kids, etc. he has multiple biological kids with different women and the only ones that suffered in life where the ones that were raised by him, which would be my brother and I. All of his other biological children lived wonderfully. I love him but sometimes I wish my mother would’ve left him when we were children.
@@sandrameesala6804 Here's my opinion. The best bad parent is the one that leaves and never comes back, because if they're gone they can't cause any more damage by staying. I'd rather someone good that isn't a child's parent but loves them and raises them right nonetheless is worth far more than a bad parent that stays out of guilt.
Right? I alwayssss get distracted from shows because I keep thinking about how the actors are acting, but I never question her performances they’re just so real
Fiona listed off all of the kids accomplishments and didnt say anything about her own, because raising them was her only accomplishment. She didnt live for herself, but for them and when she tried to do things for herself, there was never a moment where anyone let her without making her out to be a bad person for it. They expected everything from her to the point where she couldnt expect anything for herself aoutside of them
@@heartbeat8706 Only for all her development to be ripped away from a cheating boyfriend who was actually married. I hated that, THAT was her tipping point.
I love the silence that falls after "You were my mother too!" and all you hear is Liam's babble and whine, it almost felt like it added to Fioana's hurt cause that's her baby really and she was just a baby herself.
This scene is not just about how Fiona sacrificed a lot to raise her siblings. It Fiona's way of telling Monica that she didn’t feel like she was able to explore her own goals and dreams because she had to step in and be the adult when she was supposed to live. This is not just Fiona defending her family this is her showing how much resentment she has twords her mother and the hurt of always being the one falling on the sword to protect others including her own mother.
Every one talking about fionas line but did u hear Monicas line talking to debbie and carl. “Im so sorry IF i hurt you.” No, you DID hurt them and that small difference is how i know she was full of shit the entire time. If you really wanna help, change, improve your relationships, you take responsibility
Yeah my dad after years upon years of no care, love or attentiveness towards me, had the nerve to apologise exactly like that: IF i hurt you, then proceeded to give me a comprehensive list of whats happened in his family who happily vilified and alienated me as a 16 year old child, not once asking if I'm okay after having attempted suicide over 10 times and losing my dog on my birthday this year but hey, oh well. Damn, I'm very not okay. Lmao. But yeah, that lazy wording fucking hurts big time.
The way Frank IMMEDIATELY sits back down, aware of her suffering and never having done anything to relieve it. The way the kids don't really look Monica in the eye. The way they shrink away from their sister's praise and pride, not sure if they can accept it--if it's allowed with their parents around. The way that Carl and Debbie look at each other and speak in the silent language that siblings and close friends develop, and ultimatley come to an agreement to soothe their mother because they still love her, not because they forgive her--and the way that they both jerk away from her the moment that Fiona leaves, obviously upset with themselves for hurting their sister. This scene is immaculate.
Poor kids, it’s clearly so hard for Fiona to express her hurt so they don’t have to be stuck in the middle of it. But being the kid that was failed so horribly, and the fact Monica all but chose Liam, Carl and Debbie because she happened to get sober long after Fiona grew up must be too painful to accept.
I always thought the hug from them was just because they’re a lot younger than Lip and Ian and don’t 100% understand why she doesn’t want anything to do with them. Like, goddammit they just want a hug from their mom and for her to love them so when she shows the smallest bit of attention towards them they just accept the hug because it’s the only thing Monica’s ever given them.
"You were my mother too!" The way she teared up right after saying that wasn't adult Fiona...that was the little girl her parents abandoned making an appearance and saying what she needed to say at long last!
Maybe in Season 1-4. But her character basically became as a side story that didn't matter to anything going on. They didn't know what to do to her as all the kids grew up.
Because Macy still had more star power than the rest of the cast combined. It's not how much your in the show. It's how much your agent can squeeze out of the production.
I’m so tired of this argument. When they booked Shameless - did Rossum even have one “Fargo” under her belt ?? That’s like saying a talented rookie should’ve gotten Reggie Jackson pay cause he hit homers at Reggie’s pace his first year. Doesn’t hold water
The fact that after Fiona said that her mom just said, “Maybe I will never make things right with you.” As if she had already given up on mending their relationship. It made me so mad for Fiona and I haven’t even watched the show. The mom didn’t even try to comfort her and proceeded to go to the younger kids. What a terrible parent!
"Maybe I'll never be able to make things right with you, but there's still time with Liam." In other words, "I'm a terrible mother and you've suffered multiple traumas at my hands, but Liam is so young, I can take him back and pretend I was always a great mother. But to hell with the rest of you who are older, you all know way too much."
Y'all are talking about how she didn't apologize to Fiona and went straight to Debbie and Carl, but she didn't even register the older boys. That's what pisses me off. You can see Ian's hurt as he pretends to be mad in the background. And Lip. Lip didn't even expect anything else. He's given up. And that makes me so so hurt and so angry for both of them.
Because parents or not parents like her know they can manipulate the younger ones won’t apologize. Won’t try to make things better with the older ones cause that’s what actually takes work.
I’m a 33 year old man this scene gets to me deeply every time I’ve seen this episode. Even though it’s coming from Fiona as a daughters stand point but I felt this in my soul. I’m the oldest of 7 kids the youngest being 18 years old today. I was 14 years old watching over 6 of my siblings. We all didn’t turn out perfect but we all made it. My greatest achievement was watching all 6 graduate high school and the youngest with honors and is on his way to college.
Respect to you. I am the second of five. And I know what my big sister gave and still gives and does for us. She does not believe me, when I say, what a great person she is. She thinks I would not see her "dark sides". But I think I can see her very clear and I know better then her.
Why did emmy never get the recognition she deserved for this show…. She carried it in the acting department for YEARS… I see why she left the series after all that drama with the pay raises. It seems like no one behind the scenes understood her worth and how good she is
This is super peripheral to the point but I absolutely love that Frank sits down when Fiona tells him "Shut up frank, this isn't about you." He's definitely afraid of his own daughter, as he should be.
When she says "You were my mother too" you can tell, inside, she is still the little girl whose mom abandoned her. No matter how hard she tries to hold it together for the others, her pain hasn't eased.
Fiona was the backbone of this family, I always come back to this speech and her speaking to Frank about Monica… she did the best she could and was forced to grow up too fast too soon. Her character deserved so much more than what they gave her… and the actress did an Oscar worthy performance
one of the best confrontation scenes ever from a US TV Series. Emmy Rossum's acting here is phenomenal, made me cry all the time especially that "You were my mother too" part, she literally took over the part of being the mother of that household, and to add her father was a drunkard too to cope with sadness, and she dealt with that too as a young girl. what a cruel mother
This is why Fiona is my favorite character, she takes care of her siblings more than either of their parents ever did...this show seriously reminds me of my family it hits close to home every time
It says so much when the little kids pull away from their “mom” at the end. It’s like instinctively, they know that she’s not to be trusted. That Fiona is the one who has really been there.
I love that when Fiona says the line "You are my mother too!" its very hard to discern whether she states "you are..." or "you were..." and I think that's just amazing! Its either Fiona recognizing that Monica is not her mother anymore or Fiona emphasizing that she is not meant to be in this role since Monica is also her mother love this scene so much
It sounds to me like she said "you WERE my mother too" like its past tense. I can't imagine being early 20's and having to take care of 5 kids, go to work, pay all the bills and not lose my sanity! xxx
"You're my mother too!" Damn I feel the pain of the little girl inside of her begging to be loved by her mom. Mothers & their 1st born daughter's are a lesson in honoring & loving with no rules or expectations.
The look on Monica's face when Fiona says "you were MY mother too!" makes me so mad, that look like "you're the oldest, it's your job to look after your siblings" look after, not raise. Not everyone is meant to be a parent, Monica and Frank are fantastic examples of that.
I haven't seen this show but this is fantastic dialogue writing. Fiona doesn't just praise her siblings, she reveals raising her siblings was her only accomplishment. It's why she said "I did a great job" and proceeded to express that. Her mother is very detached from her kids lives given she tells Fiona "I appreciate that, but I'm here now" as if Fiona was a paid nanny all these years and not her daughter. "You were my mother too" isn't just about expressing heartbreak. Fiona is giving her mom a chance here to be her mother now. She's telling her she needed her and even as a capable adult she'd still want her mom in her life, but her mom is too selfish to get there. She is unwilling to face hardships she caused with her own actions and choices by being there for her older children. This is shown when she approaches her youngest children. We see her two older boys in frame suddenly realize their mom didn't come for them. She didn't come back to be a mom. She came back to soothe her wounds. Having lived with addicts in my life, I imagine the mother is a "recovered" addict of some kind. I wager she relapsed sometime after this scene. She's not taking accountability so she hasn't fully recovered. Something important about addicts is you have to give the people in your life the chance to reject you. Not only for their sake but for your own. You have to own up to what you did but sometimes the relationship is over. That's okay. You can still grow and take your journey without them. You can still become a better person even if your old relationships are over. You have to be the one to ground yourself and hold yourself accountable, not put that on other people. There's a huge difference between shame and guilt. Shame is "I am wrong" and you can't live with shame. It breeds insecurities and causes you to harbor resentment toward yourself, make you feel less than, can lead to things like depression. It can cause narcissistic behavior bc narcissism is rooted in insecurity. You put on a performance to compensate for how you feel inside and it hurts those around you and yourself. Shame is an absence of inner peace and you become inconsolable until you can reconcile the shame within yourself. Shame is still rooted in ideology of pride. Just like hate is not the opposite of love, rather apathy is the opposite of love, shame and pride both boil down to selfishness and entitlement. Both are rooted in ideas of "I can never be better than this, this is how I am and people will have to deal with it or they dont love me enough, there's nothing I can do, I have no other choices" and whether or not you pretend to have confidence or ego with it, they are still both thoughts that apply to shame and pride. It's about you first, you at the center of everything, and everyone has to get on board or get out of the way. The above is addict psychology. Substance abuse is a symptom of being an addict, but you don't have to be a substance abuser to have addict personality traits. The best way to neutralize pride and shame is to be humble and grateful. Learn to appreciate what you have, understand you can't choose your feelings but you can choose your response to them, learn to take accountability for the result of your choices and own up to things even if they are an accident, and understand that no one can ever expect you to be perfect so you are allowed to be messy just also allow yourself to own up to being messy when you do make mistakes. That's how you grow and foster healthy relationships. This is not the same as having guilt. You can live with guilt and you should. Guilt is "I did something wrong" and that's okay. It acknowledges your role in the outcome of something and that in itself is empowering. You now know how to do things better and can make better choices and share that with others. You have control over how much of a victim you feel like now. Guilt that becomes consuming targets your identity and becomes shame, it's no longer about an action or choice but about who you are as a person and delves into hopelessness. But you're not hopeless. It's okay to have messed up and even messed up beyond repair. You have to understand sometimes apologies aren't enough and you cant fix everything. That's okay. In this scene, Fiona wants her mother to acknowledge what she did and didn't do. She's actually giving her mother a chance to learn to live with her guilt. Because guilt can be soothed but it never goes away completely. Trying to bury it turns into shame, turns into something we feel we have to hide from others lest we be seen as lesser than. But we all make bad choices. It's okay to own them and we should. It wont make things go back to how they were with Fiona and her mom, but this can give them a chance to move forward, to heal, and to decide if they want to navigate a new relationship with each other. Instead, her mother chooses shame by refusing to admit she was wrong and refusing to acknowledge the pain she inflicted on Fiona specifically. That's why Fiona walks out. I get the impression Fiona is an addict as well by how she turns her siblings against her mother at the end there. Cycles are hard to break, but that choice will ultimately be Fiona's as well to be better than how her mom raised her or rather didn't raise her to be.
the way that Fiona and her mom look at each other after Fiona said "you were my mother too" is so familiar to me , I've looked at my mother the same way. such a great display of emotions on her face
"you were my mother too!" I think some forget Fionna raised her siblings by herself. She needed someone to help her with her emotions, her period, growing up, feeling loved. She needed a mother. But she was abandoned before any of them.
The saddest thing I always noticed when I first watched the series was how it shows Debbie and Carl slowly start not believing their parents anymore. When they were little they were so inclined to forgive and have their mommy again, but as they grow older they start to realize the truth of how unreliable she really is.
This show deserved more Emmys than it got. Joan Cusack and William Macy have both won Emmys from the show but all the other actors deserve it too especially Emmy Rossum!
i always felt like monica loved ian the most. when fiona says "ian was promoted in rotc" and monica sobbed/her face change, showed me that it moved her the most hearing about ian. idk i always just got those vibes!
Fiona is the goat. None of her siblings could even comprehend what she sacrificed and went through for them. Emmy deserves aaalll the recognition especially for this scene. Makes me cry every time.
this show always surprised me about the acting of the people not talking, the camera goes to them and wwithout words and barely any movement you feel the tension, pain, misery everything... magnificent
this scene was made so well great actors for sure.... you can feel the memories that it realy holds and touching in the heart for some of us who grew up in the same atmosphere with those kinds of parents
Frank loved Monica in spite of her many flaws and would defend her to the death. But the fact he sat down when Fiona told him to shut up shows the respect he has for her and that he actually knows she's right too.
Best scene out of the entire series, the second best is when Fiona yelled at that trust fund baby girl who gave her laundry mat a bad review. Emmy MADE this show.
this show is the best show I've ever seen. every single thing about it. the cast is perfect. the plot is perfect. the characters are perfect. its just so incredible
I just finished the last Shameless episode some minutes ago and I believe this is the saddest moment in the whole show. I had to revisit it for the nostalgia but also because it just sums up the complete feeling of misery a broken family can do to people and how the show can be a bit of a lesson on life. Absolutely stellar performance from everyone. I loved seeing everyone grow up in the show. It has its things but this is my favorite show I've ever seen.
It's one thing to apologize and change as a person, but that doesnt mean people have to forgive you just because your related and that doesnt mean you have the right to do what she did. Unfortunately a lot of parents are too afraid to face that fact and they'll try to force kids to love them or put up with them out of selfishness of not being able to let go, and in most cases they arent changed and will end up still traumatizing the remainder of their childhood.
the fact that the mother didn't even tried to atleast caress fiona's hair or give her a warm hug or calm her down by saying that she love her....I just find her mother so selfish....no matter how old the kids are or they are already teenagers taking care of everything especially fiona.....every one needs love specially from the parents side...❤
Oh god what a show man I'll never forget this show how good it was till I die I've never ever watched such a perfect show what a masterpiece wish there was more series like this 😢
After this scene I vividly remember turning the tv off and going to bed. I never recovered from Fiona’s face once she said, “you were my mother too!” 💔
Proably one of the best episodes of the series ... their was good ones but this was more about the family trying to be a family and towards the end it wasn't And you saw that fiona that took care of her siblings and was fed up ... great scene
Fiona raised 5 goddamn kids and busted her ass providing for them while also dealing with her own personal life and putting out fires within her own family, AND giving them advice and supporting them when they all were going thru their own personal stuff. Fiona is a damn hero as far as I'm concerned. Even though its a show, there's people out there doing the same thing with bad circumstances, and they're doing their best, and then some, to make ends meet, and taking care of loved ones. And they're all heros.
This scene is so powerful. And when I first watched it, I related so much and bawled my eyes out. But, after seeing it many time I kind of can’t help but chuckle at Fiona and Monica’s matching cry faces.
This scene is everything. It’s heartbreaking and empowering the way she stands up for those kids when the parents were MIA This is what true deep to the core pain looks and she lets us feel that sting.
Parents like this exist, I had one. My mom was obsessed with finding the right man, ended up having 6 kids by 5 different men and all of us were left with her abusive mother to raise, because it worked out so well the first time right? If only she loved herself more maybe she wouldn’t have had a major heart attack and died on the floor at 46.
The way monica was trying to make herself look better by causing even more damage. Telling the younger ones she wanted to be their mom even though she knew damn well, she wasn't going to be, likewise with her just repeating Frank's words of "I'm here now" even though her whole/only point of being there was taking liam and leaving the rest of them. (Also honorable mention but I like that fiona gave most of the credit to everyone's accomplishments to them and not herself)
Idk why...but...but the way I just started crying when Fiona yelled, "You were my mother too!" My face literally scrunched up like hers, and now I'm crying in my room. My upbringing was nowhere near as chaotic as Shameless, but damn, that really struck a nerve for some reason.
I feel this. My mom and dad who I haven’t seen for 18 years of my life showed up to my doorstep one time because they wanted to make amends for abandoning my siblings and I on the streets at the age of 10. They thought they can just come back after everything they did to us. Well they are dead wrong. I did a better job then they ever did at taking care of my family.
Debbie and Carl seemed like very grown up kids, especially in this season. The family ran as a unit and they all played their part. Trauma, and the environment they grew up in had a big reason to do with why they where ahead of kids their age, why they seemed so much older. But in this episode, in this scene… they are just sad sacred little kids. Confused, and hurt. 🥺
But not a shit family Fiona has or those Rohingya, Roma, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Lhotshampa who get rid of their daughters through child marriages. If I were there, I'd meet Fiona. She can shout at me and release all of her pain, stress, pressure at me until she breaks down in tears, then I'd hug her.
