I've deeply looked into DuraAce v Ultegra in the past year, including the description of the Shimano specification charts. There are some design differences in the cable STI levers with DuraAce being a pivot bearing system. In my opinion, it is a better mechanical design than the lesser groups. The rim brakes are pretty much only different in material composition to save weight which pretty much describes the whole difference between DuraAce and Ultegra. I also gather that the Ultegra cassette is more robust than duraAce due to its carbon fibre spider. Last fun piece of advice to help make your purchase choice... if you decide to buy DuraAce, don't ever let yourself be dropped by someone riding with Ultegra groupo. The shame of that is far heavier than the 500g between the two!
That was the most interesting comparison between the two I've seen on the internet. I have Ultegra because I'm the Dura Ace was out of my price range. Always wanted DA for the bling-bling but thought that there couldn't be THAT much more performance difference. Now I know. Thank you GCN
Right?! I thought that was fascinating. I knew they were very *close,* but I didn't expect the Shimano Product Manager to essentially say "functionally, they're identical." Very cool!
When it came down to it, Ultegra DI2 cost about the same as DA Mechanical. So what is more bling for your money? For me it was the Ultegra DI2 and Synchroshift.
shimano have realised that realistically not many folks have the funds to go buying Dura-Ace , so are trying to convince the people who would normally buy 105 to upgrade to Ultegra not getting Dura-Ace users to switch down , clever shimano
dont think shimano really need to worry all that much , a huge majority of their sales and profits are in budget and sub-enthusiast level kit where they absolutely blow everything else out of the water , to be honest i dont think were going to see a real shake up in the market till the whole electronic thing really starts to trickle down. whoever can bring out a budget electronic groupo first will explode in popularity i reckon
Yeah I feel into that trap. Ha ha but I did have 105 10 speed I think that was 5600. But I upgraded to the last ultegra 11 speed. But I run an 11-40t cassette in the rear.
Since when is the wheelset considered as part of the groupset?? If you take that away then the weight difference is marginal and the value of Dura Ace would be much less. This is a very misleading fact.
I have both a full Dura Ace Di2 group set and 105. The only difference I like is the sound Di2 makes when changing gears (insert robotic zutt zutt noise) 😅😎... but seriously do prefer 105 for broader compatibility to climb and sprint.
Just wanted to say thank you for the informative videos. As someone who is transitioning from running to cycling these have been helpful. Cardio has been an important part of my life and with two hip surgeries I can no longer run. The GCN has been a great deal of help to me deciding on what I need to look at and consider. Thank you again!
8:15 „About what button does what.“ THE top reason for me to love my Ultegra DI2. I programmed my right lever buttons to switch to heavier gears and my left lever buttons to go to easier gears, front button for front, back button for rear. That means that if I am on the drops, I can still from any position still reach at least the back button without reaching for it, so shifting the rear to a faster (right) or slower (left) gear is always possible. And you never have to think much: Right go faster, left go steeper.
dura ace also gets a year in advantage . whenever there is something new, dura ace gets it first, the equivalent version of ultegra comes at least a year later, followed by 105 which may even take longer.
I think that Dura Ace is much more expensive not just because of the better materials used but more to do with the initial development costs, I mean every new development comes out first on Dura Ace then the technology is trickled down to Ultegra 105 etc so when buying Dura Ace your paying initially paying for the development and being first to get your hands on new tech.
@Robert Trageser Would just like to say that there is a world of difference between a simple single/fixed gear bike and a decent road bike. I generally commute on my fixie and it takes me about 35 minutes, the odd time I take my road bike it goes down to around 28 minutes.
I've always gone for the 2nd tier group-sets (XT vs XTR, Ultegra vs Dura-Ace) as I've feel that the law of diminishing returns kicks in big time. Thanks for confirming my suspicion.
I have Dura Ace 9100 with rim brakes on my older Trek Madone and Ultegra with disk brakes on my new Niner gravel bike. Both group sets shift just fine but Dura Ace is way better with smoother and quicker shifting.
I have a stock cervelo r2 with the already „old“ shimano 5800 105 groupset, the only upgrade i made are some nice vision carbon clinchers, just for the shiny looks. Even the 105 performs flawless, there is no need for anything else. I‘m thinking of installing the complete ultegra r8000 because it‘s new and shiny, but it‘s hard to justify. Nice and honest video gcn 👍🏻
Shimano 105 R7000 will debut in June. Supposedly the 11 speed cassette will be backward compatible with 10-speed wheelsets. So if you want to upgrade your bike to Ultegra or Dura Ace, you can use a 105 cassette and still use your old wheels.
That was interesting. I am never going to ride a dura ace, but I might upgrade from a 105 to an Ultegra. A video like this explaining the difference between 105 and Ultegra would be interesting.
Back in 2000 I used Ultegra and Campag Chorus but things have moved on so much! No disc brakes unless you had a MTB and wheels were Mavic Helium or Zipp 404. Marco Pantani was alive and unwell and can you beat that battle between him and Armstrong in the mountains in the TDF in 1998...was it 1998? Drugs or no drugs that was great viewing! This video is nostalgic for me and I like it!...Get the Dura Ace if you can afford it and pull in a bit of overtime. It's your passion and you know you'll sleep better!
I have the new Dura Ace DI2 Disc set up, thus far I have returned for exchange (under warranty) both the front and rear derailleurs. Now do not get me wrong, the performance of the system is flawless. However the durability of the system is to be questioned. With respect to the front deraileur I was cycling up an incline and shifted from big to small ring, when I attempted to shift back up, the mech made the shifting buzz but the shift did not occur. There is a little bone shaped arm that connects the servo motor to the chain guide and lo and behold it had broken, snapped off at the joining bold. I was not shifting under power, I was not holding down the lever, it was a normal shift. As for the rear derailleur, I was unpacking my bike from its travel bag, the rear end slipped and fell maybe an inch unto a wooden floor. Guess what happened, yep, rear derailleur snapped clean through. This sort of thing was unimaginable when I was on mechanical ultegra. My advice, if you are unsponsored, or you travel with your bike, or you are clumsy, go with Ultegra.
If put a rider on a bike very few could say which group they were riding without looking down. They sell Dura-Ace mainly by innovating there first then let the new features trickle down to ultegra and 105.
Since I'm not racing for cash, I did both my bikes in full Ultegra. The one exception is on the disc bike I put a DA rotor on purely for looks because at my source the price difference was tiny and the black temp fins look much better (IMO). Would have been nice to see the weight difference without the wheels - I don't know too many people running those wheels, but nearly everybody is running Shimano group sets otherwise. I seem to remember the difference being between 300 and 400 grams for mechanical.
Haha, I did exactly the same thing. The DA discs were actually at the same price as Ultegra when I bought them. The black discs look like something Batman would ride. :D
Chauncey Lockwood the year of release is different. R9100 came out in mid 2016, and R8000 came out in mid-2017. if a new set of Dura Ace comes out this year, it will surely outperforms everything R8000 has, and Ultegra will have to wait til next year to get a new set that has equal functionality. R9100 is really getting "old" now, as the technology used on it is now pretty much being adapted even in R7000, which is released in 2018.
This video was published two years ago, I've visited it more than once, and now for a reply... When I started seriously riding bicycles, then racing after I stopped competing as a sprint distance runner after college (early 1980s), I learned why better gear was better; and there was pretty much only the good stuff, and everything else was far behind. Ramping up to real training and racing mileage (approx. 1K miles/month), with the mileage and load on the gear, we'd wear stuff out with entry level gear very quickly. Brake pads, chains, chainrings - yes, all the regular consumables - but also derailleur pivots, bearings/bearing races, bent axles. Stuff would just fall apart. The "good" stuff lasted, it was rebuildable, small parts were actually available for ready repair, and it worked all the time, every time. At this time, this was mostly the better Campagnolo kit (for me this was Campagnolo Super Record; gorgeous styling, flawless bearings, worked terribly poorly), then Shimano changed the game entirely, leaving everyone to catch up for the next decade, with the introduction of the "New" Dura-Ace group, the 7400-series stuff. It was a paradigm shift. By the late-1990s, using most typically Dura-Ace and Ultegra (having long lost the 600 rubric and many other peripheral Shimano model lines having fallen away), the Ultegra kit had become excellent, a far ways better than the decent painted 600 stuff that came before. It was REALLY good. Today, almost even the most humble SRAM, Campy, or Shimano stuff is really good. It's better than ever.
I have a Scott Solace 20 with the Ultegra groupset, and I'll never need to upgrade. As a matter of fact, I downgraded the front derailleur to the 105 and here's why: The Ultegra derailleur constantly needed adjusting due to all the sweat it collects and I found this unacceptable. I've ridden thousands of miles on 105 derailleurs and they never needed adjustments, they're more of a workhorse than the Ultegra. Unless you're a 140 pound pro rider, you don't really need more than Ultegra, and with the new 105 set, you'd probably be just as happy with those.
Agree with all the comments here, this was a fantastic dive into the difference on a consumer-friendly level. It's something I had a hunch on but that was a great look into the actual details. Thank you GCN! You are appreciated!
I have not watched the review yet, but I just wanted to say that I have had the 11-speed Ultegra Di2 on my bike for over 33,000 miles now (I ride a LOT), and not one single thing ever has gone wrong with it, except that the rubber brake hoods are good and worn. I let he battery get low 3 times over all those miles, which limited my shifting exclusively to the tear derailleur. I never ran completely out of battery charge.
Cassettes such as 12-28 are a DA-exclusive, as are chainring pairs like 54/42. The second lowest difference after 46/36, which in turn DA doesn't have.
Ultegra the way to go with the bigger cassette and cage plus the durace spider doesn't look cool like it did on the 9000. Also, doesn't the 9100 cassette still have creaking carbon spider problems?
I lusted over the new Dura Ace and bought the mechanical R9100 derailleurs and crankset last year. I was previously using Ultegra 6800. The shifting on the DA front mech is better than on the old Ultegra, but I doubt it is better than the new Ultegra. I have to confess bling does have some appeal to me and also the fact that you feel you have 'arrived' when you have the best. (By the way, I did not get DI2, because I do not ever want to be dependent on a battery for cycling.)
I also have a list for dura ace, but not enough money. Solution: R8000 groupset and a pair of R9100 wheels. Thus I have huge "dura-ace" fonts on my bike and still some money for food and rent.
@@Edmond347 I have adjusted my cable tension once in the year I have had it. I said earlier that I do not ever want to be dependent on a battery for cycling". If you remove, or do not recharge your battery, you cannot go out cycling (unless you want to be stuck in one gear); therefore, you are dependent on a battery - which is what I said. Logic is not your forte, it appears. I have heard of various people who either have, or know of someone who have, forgotten to charge their batteries and suffered because of it. If you wish to run electronic shifting, I have no problem with it; but until I am compelled to, I will adhere to mechanical, which serves me fine.
Ultegra is my go-to-groupset. Although not bad 105 just isn't up to snuff and the difference in shifting performance is felt between 105 and Ultegra. When buying my new bike I was testing the two head to head. The 105 came in the color combination I really wanted, but I ended up going for the Ultegra version in more plain colors because I just did not like the feeling of shifting 105 and then going back to Ultegra and noticing a different feel and sound.
Not just "stealth" black. Black both absorbs AND emits radiant heat better. So a black coating on the brake rotors will actually improve the heat dissipation, rather than just being a colour choice!
hi, surprised you didnt look at the bearings... all bearings are not the same... in terms of performance this.must be one of the most important differences... would have been interesting to hear what the Shimano rep would have said on this point...
I just love that you are completely honest when it comes to paid promotions and ads. unlike most other bike channels that will even (presumably) lie to you in the comments. love your stuff, keep at it
When I bought my last road bike, a Trek Madone, about 8 years ago, I could have initially upgraded to Dura Ace from Ultegra, but since the bike was going to be used to do a cross country journey, I was informed that the choice of gearing would be restricted due the design of the Dura Ace derailleur. The gearing was already pretty limited on Ultegra compared to the 105 triple I had on my former bike, but to be further limited was not going to work. Even the Ultegra compact double proved to be a challenging setup for me, particularly in the Rockies, but I survived. Additionally, I went over the handlebars a few years ago and upon close inspection of the bike discovered I had bent a crank arm. A very expensive replacement! I can only imagine what a Dura Ace crank arm would have set me back. The Ultegra group has been flawless and I now realize how unnecessary the upgrade would have been.
As to the disc rotors. How can the two rotors be functionally equivalent if the ultegra lacks the heat dissipating coating? Surely the Dura Ace ones perform better under high heat? Or why bother with the coating?
The big different between the group sets is the manufacturing location. Saving a lot when manufacturing in Malaysia vs Japan. Very small change in materials.
I have Ultegra Di2 on my bike. Its performance is amazing. I couldn't imagine anything better, so it is good to know that impression is not too far off.
Thanks 4 doing this comparison. So many times people think they need to buy the most expensive, . But clearly u can buy affordable and get amazing performance for the price. Asking questions and watching the great and informative videos by gcn help cyclist to be informed and make smart buying choices for bikes. Thanks again. Marketing is such a deceptive thing, that and peer pressure to. " Get out their and ride"
Tip top feature Lloydy! Really interesting and informative - of course psychology is key too. While I now know that Ultegra (less weight) is so close to Dura Ace I would still want Dura Ace! I've just got to stop falling off the bike as much before I buy!
My next frame will very likely be titanium, and I intend to build it from the ground up. I am a 105 stalwart..but that seemed a little "low end" even for me. And it's not the high upfront cost of DA that turns me off either; it's the high long term upkeep cost. However, if as Dan alluded to, there may eventually be the same type of parity between 105 and Ultegra, then I may be able to justify going back and forth between 105 and Ultegra once I do build up my next bike. Particularly as cassettes, chains, and rings need replaced.
As aforementioned and bellow earlier, not much of the difference. If you want to save weight for a bug buy cassette. 105 is not racing,it should not deter you from racing if you are low on budged. 105 is great anyway. IMHO best value for quality. I am really happy with 105 although having some ultegra components too.
Why isn't it for racing though? I had an Ultegra front deraileur that broke, I replaced it with a 105 and side by side they looked identical, and perform exactly the same on the bike too.
A full Ultegra grouspet is 250g lighter and £350 more expensive... I know I'm never going to convince a hardcore weight-shaver otherwise, but... a guy on a 105 groupset who's had one less glass of water that day has already nullified that advantage, unless the £350 he's saved is weighing him down...
Great video. I have the new Ultegra 8000 series on my Domane SLR 6 Di2 variant. Phenomenal. As close to Pro Level as one can get. For a non Pro cyclist like myself, this setup is more than I need... I'm sure the new 105's are great also, yet no Di2...
Something to throw in the mix, wear rate, been told, don't know if a myth that more expensive wear faster. A veteran mate that used to TT against Tom Simpson said "loose the fat and you will fly" If I had the money though I would buy the best. I ride with 105 on my winter bike & its great & Sram force on my summer best, like chalk & cheese. Another thing if we ride just for fun do we need the best of the best, suppose its nice to have a bit of bling. Nice one Dan.
I was under the impression that the grips on the levers is and feels better/different than Ultegra, inclusive the adjustment of the reach. I was considering Dura Ace shifters for that reason, feedback appreciated. Love your show!
My groupset is a Tiagra groupset with dura ace 7900 jokey wheels, dura ace chain rings, a dura ace cassette and dura ace chain, paid£450 for it all together in a sale and I can't tell the difference between that and my 11 speed full dura ace group set that cost almost £1000
Did not include review of chains. Did not mention difference in available chain ring combinations. Ultegra - 50-34T 52-36T 53-39T 46-36T. DA - 53-39T 52-36T 50-34T. Previous versions of DA included 55/42T. Has Shimano intentionally eliminated extreme sizes to make the two groups, although not the same, more alike?
I enjoy the videos but I'd like to get information about durability. It seems to me that durability should be a significant of a consumers purchasing concerns.
The shimano 11 spd mechanical shifters seem to be designed to fail at some point, either in a clash(bracket body can't even withstand small impacts) or due to weak flimsy springs and soft plastic used in the internal mech.
Something to add here is the quality of cassettes: the DA 9100 has the same riveting issues as the 9000; I've now gown through 2 DA cassettes both of which failed after ~1000 and ~300 miles, respectively as the rivets develop play and makes a terrible creaking. The Ultegra version is more solidly built and does not have this issue. As far as the cassettes go, the Ultegra has it is quality and only weights ~60-80s grams more. It is pretty wild that Shimano did not fix this issue with the 9000 > 9100 upgrade as the 9000 were notorious for this as well.
Peter Rent, yes but you probably know the basics, XT almost identical performance and slightly heavier than XTR. I haven’t tried the new 12 speed but the 11speed groups were very close, maybe slightly better braking with XTR but not enough to be obvious. Shifting was almost identical IMO.
I WANT Ultegra, I truly do. But even if Im halfway honest with myself, I cant see the argument to upgrade. And Im on TEN SPEED 105. Not the shiny new 105, nor 5800. 5700. 5700, good ol 10speed 105, is basically antiquated technology in the world of cycling tech. But it performs so god damn flawlessly, that seemingly the only way Im upgrading, is when I get a new bike. Im riding a 2014 Cannondale Synapse, Carbon 5 with upgraded wheel, Campagnolo Zonda c17, which are ridiculously light for thier price point, only 1540g for the pair. LOVE THEM. Ive been thinking about upgrading the whole bike, possibly keeping the wheels, for the spring 2019 riding season. in which case Im sure Ill spring for an Ultegra, Disc, equipped new bike. But. upgrading just the groupset.. Cant do it.
Both Dura-ace 9100 and Ultegra R8000 im using,i have to say the only different between them is the weight,like 500g.the speed that you change the gear is cleary same. if you are not a pro racer or super lightweight bike mania , just go ultegra.
My takeaway is if you want high performing equipment get ultegra unless you have money to burn and are really going to need that weight difference. It's good to know so you don't spend too much time wishing you had Dura ace. Will you be doing a video for ultegra vs 105?
Think i will stick with my old dura ace 9spd till the shifters stop working! Still getting ultegra parts cheap so its a no brainer really. Got sram gx on my mtb and its as better as my old xt 9spd but and much cheaper so may go sram for my new cross bike
Great video. Even for those who purchase a Dura Ace build, it will eventually become part Ultegra when it comes time to replace the rear cassette. :) The new Ultegra shifters being the only ones with the adjustability is very interesting and I could see that being an important reason to choose Ultegra over Dura Ace.
Last weekend I went to check some ultegra equipped bikes at the largest trek store in here. I wanted to touch and see the STIs since I had ordered myself a pair and was impatient for the arrival. I got a big disappointment, because the ones mounted on the bikes there felt and looked "plasticky", cheap and flimsy. The 105 STIs looked and felt much better. For a moment I felt regret of ordering ultegra instead of 105. But when mine arrived I opened the box and fortunately, my ultegra STIs looked and felt freaking awesome. They were beautiful, robust and seemed tip-top quality. I don't know if this is an issue, but there might be different levels of manufacturing qualities within the same tier of Shimano components. My STIs were manufactured in Japan. I don't know where the store's were manufactured but the difference was abysmal.
Yes there is a significant difference: the plastics of the dura ace are more durable (the cover on my 3 month old Ultegra di2 front derailleur has already cracked).
+1 for wanting the weight of the 2 groupsets without the wheels. Did you say the Ultegra wheels are 300g more than the DA ones? If the total difference including the wheels is 500g, then that would mean the groupsets only differ by 200g, but I don't think that's right?!
I enjoyed your Dura Ace vs Ultegra episode. Just ordered PD R8000 Ultegra pedals. The Dura Ace Chainring is most beautiful sexy looking. Well done vs presentation 🚲👍
I'm not sure they got the weight differences right. Like for like Di2 disc versions all available data shows it at around 250g, which is almost all down to cassette and crankset. Shifters actually weightthe same.
The DA Cassette will wear out fast and you will prolly replace it with Ultegra which is much less expensive and more durable. At that point you have lost a big chunk of your weight savings. You may also have a different wheel preference which has nothing to do with whether you run DA or Ultegra so that weight savings should not be counted
Thanks, Dan, I'll be watching this one a few times so I can pass the pop quiz. But why no nickel-plated cranks? I'm okay with stealth levers and rims, but I will happily confess to some vanity. I need that bling when I'm in the big ring. I'd have to take a rattle can of silver or gold to the chainset. And maybe I grin but I do prefer shiny components.
I always assumed more expensive meant better quality (more hard wearing). But I’m learning that’s not necessarily true... sounds like it buys lightness... that may not last as long as Ultegra in real-world high mileage use?
