You are right about church members being ignorant of the issues in the SBC. When I was looking for a church last year, I would frequently mention this when visiting Baptist churches and not one person was aware. It’s like almost every American church has no men of Issachar, no watch man on the walls to sound the horn, or not one single person of discernment.
My husband I feel the same way!!! We feel isolated at our church bc we are the only ones watching what’s going on around the church and outside the church walls!!!! My hubby reads articles from various sources, and from seminary journals!!! I have been a watchman for over 5 years, warning others about things in the “world” and in our society. People tell me to chill out, shut up, “love” everyone ……. That’s what I am doing!! Loving means telling the truth!
@@mandygainey312 This is a the major reason I left church 2 years ago and have not found another one. For the time being I am having my family do home church watching Matt Trewhella sermons because every church out there is full of oblivious people lead by oblivious cowards.
Thanks for these continued discussions. Not, all women need "emotional" appeals. Facts and truth spoken with prespective. Provide the biblical citations on examples of repectful conflict to educate while citing Reasons for need to disagree.
Very good Jon and Jeff and let's remember arguments over correct doctrine will always be fought within the denomination/ within the Church. It's never going to be fought in the "world".
I'm glad to hear a case being made about actions to be taken, rather than merely desperately clinging to hope against hope. At this point, half measures are negligent stewardship, but a genuinely active effort is well worth it. I wrote a fairly short comment to our brother, Richard, over on his channel, and what I wrote was basically a pre-emptive summary of what has been discussed here. I asserted three points: 1) There needs to be a more effective effort to gently and politely educate those who are yet unaware of the reality of the matter. 2) There needs to be an effort that is worthy of supporting; and that needs to be leveraged to get conservatives, who've left, to come back and fight. 3) There needs to be someone paid to reach out to SBC churches in order to facilitate the realization of these goals. That was about all, so I really lacked alot of the useful insight which Jeff and others have brought during this livestream. Richard doesn't seem to appreciate that sort of advice, but I'm hopeful that if respectable men like Jeff offer it, then he will come around to embracing the facts that the efforts thus far have been mere talk, action has been merely complacent, and there must be a devotion to genuine proactivity. Not that it's about Richard himself necessarily, but he is the representative of this in my RU-vid circles, so that's how I end up speaking to and about him in particular. Jon, I do think you and I had both turned to the idea, of giving up this fight, too soon. We may be seeing the beginning of a genuine shift for the better. In that sense, Richard may be proven to have been right, and us to have been wrong. At the same time, that is going to depend on whether or not men like Richard step up to devote to necessary actions. I suspect they are going to, and I suspect they are going to prove us to have been wrong, and I hope my present suspicion is correct.
The main thing ANY christian organization needs to do is follow the words of God. Jesus explicitly stated women were NOT to have leadership roles over congregations, including teaching.
It will take men willing to travel to local churches and informing the people. It will take going in person and meeting the people and showing that you’re authentic and serious about shining a light of truth and exposing the deeds of darkness being done by SBC leadership. Don’t wait until May of 2024 to start making a stink, start now! Expect it to take some time, but begin informing the people about the deeds of darkness, the solutions and the alternatives.
Great points. "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matthew 10:16 Any church is vulnerable that doesn't utilize Biblical church discipline to actively root out the overtly unbiblical bad actors among them.
Unless many really are wolves and goats among authentic Christians in these churches. This is why Biblical church discipline is essential to root out snakes in protection of Biblical Truth and the True Church.
The "cheerful warrior" image expressed toward the end is quite attractive, and I think it's a lot of why I like listening to Doug Wilson--to all appearances, he's just having a blast.
When pastors come back and tell their congregations not to believe what they are being told about SBC and that everything is hunky dory, of course, the average southern baptist doesn't know the truth.
Ok, so, a couple of comments. 1.) there is no way to "shut it down". That is not even an action plan. 2.) it does not take 100 years to start a seminary, it takes about 3 years, Voddie Baucham and others have done. Russel Fuller has demonstrated the possibility of a very different path which would accomplish what actually matters. Accreditation is not needed, and it is a liability in negative world. 3.) I hear a lot of people in chat or wherever saying "we'll just give to Lottie Moon". You really trust the same people who silence mics of their opposition and hide the salaries of entity head to actually send your money where you think it's going. I wouldn't. 4.) the other problem with staying is implicit solidarity with the ERLC. That alone is a cost too high if you give a damn about ethics. 5.) making your arguments palatable to "the room" is compromise. Don't fool yourself. This is real disagreement, not just one about style. 6.) if you can't see the absurdity of arguing to stay in an association as a mission field, well, what can I say. 7.) the wish of remote voting is not a new idea, this has been proposed for at least a decade now. It is not happening. 8.) mass mailing ? Seriously. What is the last thing that mass mailing moved the needle on ? If you can't make the argument through social media then you can't make the argument. There are many other reasons beyond these. And, the most important question was not answered: 9.) when do you plan to leave the SBC ?
Having a seat at the table is useless without power. We should have learned this lesson from the Moral Majority movement. Pastor Joel's Fight by Flight concepts might be the way forward for my Baptistic brothers.
Mkshift: Some where along our Christian journey we thought it virtuous to fight evil with one arm tied behind our back. It is perceived by our enemies as weakness because it is weakness. What happened to the spirit of the Black Robe pastors?
Train another few thousand CRT students apologizing for scripture. We need about 1000 more seeker-sensitive churches all over the world. I have seen absolutely preposterous videos of the mission board steering toward woke-egalitarianism
Until traditional Christianity keeps rejecting God's laws, their churches are never going to get masculine men. As David told Solomon just before his death, living by God's commandments and His government is how a male becomes a man. There is no other way, but the churches of traditional Christianity seems to think otherwise.
My church is staying in the SBC for now, but only because it allows some of our members who are students at an SBC seminary to get the discount tuition rate. We do not approve of the leftward drift of many of the leaders (so-called) and institutions of the Convention.
Good discussion. THE problem...seems to me that we're fighting war in the churches where the bad actors are willing to fight dirty and be dishonest as to where the Christians are fighting in good faith which is with forthrightness. AD Robles posted about getting some Donnie Brasco's in the SBC and maybe it's just humorous but if serious...I just don't know how an asymmetrical response is able to be justified, (I'm open to it) much less carried out by those of goodwill, virtue etc. It seems the Matt 18 process and calling out dishonest actors is where the energy has to be.
Lord, please give us strong, discerning,Christian men and wise, Proverbs, Christian women. Strong conservative mentors, and young, diligent workers to take baCk the SBC. for the GLORY OF THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. May the power and will of JESUS CHRIST fight our battle, and go before us to lead our way. Amen. 1:00:03
In 2018 the Conservative Resurgence clearly came to an end in the SBC. It was marked by two big things. The rapid quasi-lynching of Paige Patterson, head of Southwestern Seminary in Texas, by feminist Twitter mobs, and the subsequent election of a clearly woke pastor, JD Greear, as president of the convention. Since then a left-leaning power elite has clearly been in control of the SBC. There were major precursors to the 2018 events: One, Al Mohler as head of Southern Seminary pursuing a policy of hiring and promoting politically liberal and theologically shaky professors and setting the tone for the other denomination seminaries. Two, Mohler protégé Russell Moore becoming head of the ERLC in 2013, becoming by far the most visible Southern Baptist spokesman, and utilizing his position not to advance the gospel and Christian discipleship but rather to move Southern Baptists politically and culturally toward the Left. Unfortunately these efforts on the part of Moore had significant success, although the job was very far from complete when he resigned in 2021.
He who says organization says oligarchy, properly organizing under a hierarchical structure that can maintain a single focus on a particular target that rewards your friends and punishes your enemies.
Jon, I have commented before that we are in the day of the church of Laodicea. The SBC have a group of leaders who have been making their own kingdoms, not God's kingdom. Even the so-called traditional leaders are trying to fudge and cover over the unbiblical actions of many of the SBC leaders.
The SBC will not be around for a long time. The Bible guarantees that all human religions, institutions, and forms of governments will be absolutely destroyed and abolished when Christ returns.
Just look at the Episcopalian Church. It is a very powerful tool for Satan in spite of its decadence and decline. It enabled liberals to begin saying that homosexuality is a subject that Christianity is divided over rather than something that Christianity is opposed to, period. You take a denomination as big as the SBC with its institutions and its power, give it over to Satan and that is a huge victory for Satan. It is said that one-third of seminary graduates in the US graduate from SBC seminaries. The conservatives have really not put up a fight for this denomination since the blatant liberal takeover in 2018.
@44:14 Jon,! You need to stop calling normal conversation a rant. You along with thousands of other Tubers are labeling healthy verbal interaction with the word RANT. This has caused the masses to think that any voice of concern is an improper means of communication. Stop it, now!
The thing is the Christian culture-at-large is fracturing into 4 major groups. The left affirming, racial sensitivity yet conservative, nationalist conservatives like you have here, and the ultra conservatives. The key problem that I see with the David Fench mentality of operating out of middle is that there really isn't a typical moderate Americans anymore.
I think you are onto something there but I would differently categorize the second category. I would call them racial sentimentalists while overall conservative. The problem is they are being "sensitive" to what's not actually real. Black people are not being held down collectively by white people in recent American history. On the contrary the systemic racism massively favors blacks through affirmative action and through enormous fear of accusation of racism. The "sensitive" conservatives blame racial disparities on systemic racism or pervasive racism because their sentimentality does not permit them to recognize the real problem: having a culture based upon unwed motherhood is not the way for a people to be competitive and does foster the hoodlum/gang culture that results in grossly disproportionate incarceration of black males. A good example of somebody in this category is Gordon Robertson host of the 700 Club. He does not seem to me like a Gospel Coalition type. He seems to be to be conservative and to be pretty genuinely repelled by the Left. He even acknowledges that CRT is pernicious Marxism but overall, he is an idiot on the subject of race as I described above. He cannot bring himself to see clearly on the subject of race.
@@conceptualclarity I don't hear enough conservatives is in carrying out the logic of how intersectionality is actually very discriminatory and marginalizes white folk that are poor. It will only further racial strife as the poor white guy observes all these black athletes will millionaire contracts crying "white privilege." And then there's the stereotype if you are Asian-America, you're rich. Well l, what if you're not and your a poor Asian. This is exactly where wokeness takes us, more divided. People like Greere, Platt, and Chandler totally miss that point completely because a wrongly accused black young man got arrested in their neighborhood. Well, that's a local problem then in their neighborhood and by the way we already have civil rights laws already on the books anyway.
Leave religion, conventions, conferences, most churches, as fast as you can run,imo. It's all about money and power . Read the Bible and follow Jesus teachings. It's not that complicated
Considering the overall philosophy of the Southern Baptist Church, please help me with two subjects. Please weigh these issues under the guidance of Revelation 22:18-19. Alcohol. Where in the scripture does it prohibit alcohol? I know that certain denominations have “taken a stance” on alcohol, so is it based on written scripture or is it man’s preference that it is best to abstain? It is a great suggestion and may be lovingly based, but, if it is not in the infallible Word of God, Revelation 22:18-19. Husband of one wife. Think of Saul/Paul, his history, apostasy, blasphemy and his rebirth, redemption and gift. Is it not scripture that once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, once you are redeemed, the old man dies and a new man is born? Your past sins are cast as far as the east to the west. Your sins are washed away through the redemptive blood of Jesus Christ. When a man is viewed, should he not be viewed as the new man, the redeemed man, the new child of God, who has received the gift only given by our Lord? We know that the word divorce could had been used, or put away, if that was the true intent. Could it be possible that the true intent is the man’s current, new man, redeemed life marital status, dealing with polygamy, adultery and other sins? Does this not sound more scripturally sound, acknowledging the redeemed man, his new life washed of his past sins? Just as God has promised would happen? Imagine if you will, God has redeemed a man, a new man has been born (reminder of Saul/Paul) and God has a purpose for this man. God lifts this man to a position where his faith and works through faith reflect his redemption, his new man soul, beliefs and lifestyle. Then you are the stumbling block for this man growing, you stop this man from being who he is destined to be, you obstruct his work. If you have a wrong interpretation, based on your own convictions, and you ignore what God has sent, what are your rewards. And if your interpretation is so definitive, would the husband of one wife also exclude a single man, a man who has never married. As long as you can put your finger on a verse that addresses the subject, specifically, you are in the safe spot, doing the work of God. If you interject your own fears, convictions, experiences, beliefs and laws, see Revelation 22:18-19. Pray for the Book of Life.
@@gregb6469 Since you exhibit such a high level of understanding and intellect, the Baptist churches that you are intimately familiar with, same questions.
@@deanhendrix3179 -- I don't understand what you are asking. Do you want to drink alcohol? Why? It is poison. As for the second question, I did not get whatever point you were trying to make. There are different ideas among Baptists as to what Paul meant by 'husband of one wife'. There is no consensus. I take it to mean no divorce in the aspiring leader's life, at least not since becoming a believer.
The Southern Baptist Convention is a denomination! Then denomination exists no where in God's word. Christ never commanded us to get organized, He never commanded us to build institutions, Christ never commanded us to even plant churches and build buildings.,Christ's direct command to His disciples and us still is: " make disciples of all nations ", ( matheteusate ta ethne in the original Greek text.) You see full obedience to this command answers the prayer to the Lord of the harvest to raise up workers for the fields ripe unto harvest. ( Mattyew 9:37-38 ) Making disciples in the same manner as Christ demonstrated in the gospel narratives puts feet into ministry not just butts in pews. Then Jesus said: " If you love Me, you will obey My commandments. " Matthew 14:15..... Well.....Do We?
I am delivering a sermon to you 🙏😊 please read Consistently Pray for forgiveness, guidance in a good (positive) direction, and for help against evil. Pray to be saved from hell (whatever that may be). Pray for your friends and your family too, it only takes a minute or so/less at a time to pray. Do it and your life will slowly get better, or maybe quickly. It probably just depends on you and the kind of person you are/have been. Don't wait until its too late and you have to suffer the consequences of built up bad karma from immoral acts/unrepented sins. Maybe together we can help make the world a better place by changing ourselves for the better, and changing things around us for the better. And addressing/thanking the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, LORD GOD at the beginning and end of your prayers would be a good idea. Be my friend and I will pray for you, but I do not know how much help me doing so will give you. You should try to practice daily prayer yourself. I'm trying to help you get right with the LORD 🙏 Amen. I have worded a short prayer for you to say if you are not sure what words to use, it may not be the best but here it is 😊 '' CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, LORD GOD, Please forgive me and my friends and my family for our immoral acts, please help guide us in a positive direction and please help us against evil. Please save us from Hell and have mercy on our souls. Thank you for everything CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, LORD GOD. Amen. '' Please say this at least once a day for at least a month, do it longer if you want to and can 🙏 You should prostrate yourself if you don't want to do spoken prayer, or do both 🙏😊 Please worship the LORD GOD and not any idol. Please put your hands together 🙏🙏🙏🙏 bow your head and say this prayer: "CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, LORD GOD, please know that I worship you and not any idols. Thank you for everything CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE, LORD GOD. Amen" Say ' Om Namah Shivaya ' out loud or in your head 108 times, or try to do it 1008 times 😊 try to do it everyday if you want repeat this aloud for as long as you want to, try to do it for like an hour a day or say it in a prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner" You can also say this prayer once a day or repeat it aloud as many times as you would like to: "Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen." Thessalonians 5:16-18 "Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you." Philippians 4:6-7 "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." "O Blood and Water, which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a fount of mercy for us, I trust in You!" Repeat this aloud at least 3 times or as many as you want, do it everyday if you can I apologize for all the words 😊 I know how it may look If you can't remember the words to any prayer, pray the words as you read them until you can 🙏☺
