The weapon durability mechanic from the newest entries annoys me so much. I personally prefer the structure of something like A link to the past over the more fully open world style. Makes me feel like I am actually progressing in the game
I disagree. I think BOTW/TOTK have a way of making you feel like you're progressing, it's just more subtle. When silver Lynels stop being hard to kill for their materials, you know you're pretty much at the point where you can breeze through the rest of the game. It takes time to finesse the encounter and get the right equipment, but it's more satisfying than beating Ganondorf imo.
@@mikethehunter5212 Fair point, but I'm a big dumb caveman so subtle is wasted on my stupid ass haha. I just like the more straight forward gameplay style since I might play a game once every few days or a week in some cases and forget what im doing so if its more obvious what I am doing, its easier for me to remember whats next.
I personally liked the durability system. It allows you to try different weapons and since there are so many you can find, it allows you to try weapons that you usually wouldn’t and it keeps you on your toes. If you had a royal guard sword fused with a silver Lynel sabre horn you will be way too overpowered and would use any of the dozens of other weapons. My one gripe is the same as outlined in the video, the master sword should not break. I think the way to fix the master sword is keep it at 30 damage so not too overpowered, but it never breaks. Plus you can fuse stuff but instead the fused materials break after a while. That way it’s always there with you but wouldn’t break the gameplay loop as there are weapons that do more damage but they will break eventually
@@benjthewhitehonestly I think they should have had a "master" sword system in place. Basically after finding a weapon say 10 times for example, you get a quest trigger that leads you to an otherwise unobtainable, unbreakable, "master" copy in an actual "quest" that re-triggers if you lose it then find another weapon, granted this only would work for unblemished versions so mostly Zonai and wood weapons to start, a storage chest at your house should store these versions when unneeded, and champion level weapons might just start at this tier.
Now that graphics are getting better, I kind of want another realistic zelda similar to Twilight Princess. Slightly less emo than twilight, but slightly less bright than Skyward Sword. I think Zelda games are increasing the brightness and contrast on their art/graphical style with every entry and it’s kind of starting to cause me eyestrain. Something like an updated Link to the past/Ocarina-vibe, with large open-world mechanics and without weapon durability. I know many people wouldnt agree. But i mean not do much re-invention for a franchise that’s already great
The two last games are amazing at first look, because they have a huge promise of exploration. However when you finish part of such exploration you realize the promise is hollow. No pay off. No cathartic dungeon. No new gear, no new vista, just a chest with another about to be broken sword or another horde of samey monsters. The underworld in TotK, for example, couldn't have been more disappointing. And I'm not even going to mention those final bosses. Nintendo surely chosen quantity over quality.
Both Dungeons need to go back to a linear progression And they need to be more intricately ties to game progression as in previous Zelda titles The over world should be open air I miss the days when u actually had to earn progression instead of buying it💯
@@greenlight2323 Yes Complete 52 shrines in BOTW u can buy 13 hearts that allow u to “buy” the Master Sword Complete 20 shrines in TOTK u can buy 5 stamina vessels that give u a second stamina wheel that allows u to “buy” the Master Sword In OOT u had to complete three whole regional dungeon quests in order to obtain the Sword of Time In LTTP u had to obtain 3 pendants from 3 different dungeons In MC u had to obtain 4 elements to forge the Pokiri Blade etc. etc. etc. In previous Zelda titles game progression was intricately woven into gameplay In current Zelda titles u r simply earning currency to spend at a vendor to buy the prerequisite cost of the Master Sword
Loved this video! You really created a nice and engaging topic for all players to enjoy. My fav Zelda game of all time is Twilight Princess; I felt that it had the best balance of openness while also being linear in what order you complete dungeons. Thanks for a fun video!
I dont mind the destructible weapons system, but I do wish that they didnt break so quickly. I like that the game forces you to adapt to new weapons a lot.
I don’t mind the weapon durability. What I don’t like is combat overall in the game. 1. Combat has no variety. Not enough enemies types. Almost no variety in combat play styles. Optimal combat is the same no matter the enemy (stun lock, 2 handed, bullet time head shot etc.). 2. Enemy number scaling is not balanced. Either enemies take 5 seconds to kill or 5 minutes. They also will either kill you in 2 hits or kill you in 50 3. Combat has no extrinsic value. The best reward for killing is you get the same weapon again. 4. Eating in combat To early and enemies are to hard to kill with your resources. There is a sweet spot for a bit. But then come hour 50ish enemies dont give a worthwhile reward so you just don’t engage. These are all the same problems that were in BOTW 6 years ago. The fact that combat got no overhaul is fucking absurd.
The original Zelda still has some linearity to it, it’s not open like BOTW or TOTK. The original Zelda had dungeons that needed to be completed before others because many items that are found in the dungeons are required for them and also to get to them also.
Before BotW, I was really wanting a return to the open world style of the first game, and no other game in the series up to that point had ever topped it for me. So I was floored when BotW was announced as a return to the philosophy of classic Zelda. I'd love to see them continue in this classic vein, seeing as the LttP formula is pretty tired to me. I would like to see more elements of that formula mixed in, though. Also, I think a remake of the original in a modified BotW/TotK engine could be great.
It never was about the open world tbh. It can stay open world but they need to make a linear story that is not all told in memories and also they need to start making good dungeons again. Good dungeons is especially whats missing in botw and totk.
BOTW was my first Zelda game since Wind Waker. And over the past few years open world/sandbox games we're what i played most of the time so BOTW was a great excuse to get back into the series. I'm so curious what Nintendo will come up next, I'm not a fan of top down games. But if they come with a more linear 3D game like WW or OOT I'm definitely buying it
imo the best zelda style gameplay is in ocarina of time or majora's mask. Like you said I like the fact that you need to acquire certain items and that they all have vaue even something like an empty bottle. I've been playing hogwarts legacy and i like the game but I feel like I'm spending way to much time colecting useless pieces of clothing and selling them again without even looking at what it was. Also like said here by others I like the old dungeons they felt like one big puzzle . I still think it's nice that they're trying new things though.
I think a new Zelda game can be both open world and still have linear progression. You can have a large open world for link to explore and explore further and deeper using items that have been acquired in temples or dungeons by defeating bosses just like in more traditional Zelda games. Traditional Zelda games have been striving for a more open world experience since the very beginning it’s only in breath of the wild, where it is a seamless open world for link to explore instead of segmented due to hardware limitations.
Feel like it’s disingenuous to say it was simply because of hardware limitation. I mean compare link to the past to skyward sword. I’d say link to the past was 10x more open. You want me to believe the Wii was less powerful than the SNES?
@@secundus1927 I think you’re comparing apples to tomatos. Obviously 2D overhead view Zelda’s play differently then 3D Zelda’s like Ocarina of time and due to hardware limitations Nintendo couldn’t make an open Breath of the Wild game on N64 or even Wii without having smaller open environments or segmenting each part of the map like in Wind Waker.
I’d prefer something with a general order but intentionally allows for “sequence breaks”. Kinda like a number of the Metroid games. Feel like Link to the past did it best thus far. The dark world dungeons were numbered but could easily be done in a different order.
The things I would have really enjoyed from TotK would have been a hero's journey, puzzles (rather than obstacles), meaningful progression, and a good narrative TotK just didn't have the above and these elements were what I played Zelda for. BotW/TotK are just different genres, and it's frustrating that these old Zelda staples were omitted
my fav is ocarina / majora. such a nostalgic pair of games and the stories in them r absolutely amazing. i'm also hoping for something in the middle where its open, but things change as you go and you have to progress in a sensical story way. like you can visit areas, but the story only happens from area to area, like old zelda games. i think exploration is important and should be much more rewarded than it is in BOTW/TOTK.
Zelda 1 had a lot of freedom, but it still had an actual sense of progression via items, so I'd argue it's closer to what people are actually in favor of within those that preferred Zelda pre-botw. If I were to describe what I missed most about classic Zelda in BotW/TotK, it would be the gameplay/adventure progression system much like the metroid series/metroidvania genre that somehow manages to make the whole world and plot feel like one big interconnected puzzle.
I prefer partially linear but I want a certain level of freedom to decide whats next. I also miss traditional dungeon especially getting locked in a room having to solve a puzzle to get out or walking into a room door slamming behind you mini boss music fires up. I like open air Zelda and linear traditional Zelda games honestly. There are only a couple Zelda games I didn't care for, such as Spirit Tracks.
The way I had always approached Zelda is that there are two types of Zelda games that they tend to release taking turns. There were the 2d zeldas and the 3d zeldas. Both types of games had their own fanbases so they kept developing both and while we may argue which one is better, there was always a healthy respect that both should exist. Now that open world zelda exists, people are scared that 3d zeldas as we knew them would be no more. I think we should simply add a new type of zelda to the mix that is developed periodically while the other 2 also have their time to shine. 3 categories of zelda that all get to exist independently of each other. Top-down 2d Zelda, Linear 3d Zelda, and Open world 3d Zelda. On a side note, I have heard some make this argument that Nintendo will take the massive success of BotW and TotK as a sign that they should abandon traditional 3D Zelda design and do it this way from now on. While that is possible, I would like to remind everyone that Nintendo has almost always followed massive successes with near copies of each other (See OoT into MM). I don't believe you made this argument during the video but I wanted to get that out there as it is a sentiment I have heard from a few of my own personal friends and think some others out there share.
i think the fear that nintendo replaces 3D zelda by this is founded, when i see those interviews of aonuma where he claims botw and totk are the template going forward, and going as far as to ask us why we want the linear formula back (because it's "old" and "lesser"), i feel like it's lost hope regardless of if you like botw/totk, when a game dev claims that true freedom is all that matters, denying the need of restriction for a game to feel good, it's when you know they truly lost it botw and totk have good elements because of that "restriction", one of the most fun i had in those games, that i really don't like in the first place, was when they took away my inventory in shrines, that was the most fun i had in the game, and i feel sad that aonuma doesn't realize that, i definitely think there's some sort of compromise, and hope that the zelda team will rethink their decisions, but as of now, it seems like they really wanna only do open air games from now on :(
I wasn't a fan of BoTW, I never even finished it. But I've genuinely enjoyed the hell out of ToTK. I still HATE shrines though. I genuinely miss the thrill and wonder of exploring hidden dungeons for treasure and the 'unique items' like you talked about. And the boss fights felt so COOL in the linear games. I hated the ganon fights in BoTW and from what I saw of the final bosses I couldn't care less about finishing it. ToTK 'dungeons' were okay, I've loved the bosses in it so far, and the (((SPOILERRRRR depths version of Colgera I encountered scares the pants off of me.))) I feel like ToTK is SO close to perfecting the formula. If they could master this open world aspect combined with a fun linear progression system - that Zelda game could be AMAZING. No more shrines, PLEASE. >_< Fill in the HUGE expanse of areas with NOTHING in them. More Korok variety or just replace it with something else. I genuinely hate them in ToTK and I refuse to help them. More mob variety would also be fantastic. I get so bored of fighting the same pack of bokoblins over and over and over. And my favorite game was Majora's Mask! This was a fantastic video from such a small channel, I'm so surprised! Fantastic work, truly. Everything about this video felt like it came from someone with hundreds of thousands of subscribers. I hope the algorithm treats you well!
A Link Between Worlds is fun however it lacks the sense of discovery that items have in linear Zelda games because you see them all at once. I like stumbling upon them in dungeons because then there's that sense of discovery and the dungeon designs become more unique from each-other. A link between worlds takes advantage of items in its design but not as much because there's a chance you don't have them so they have things like the enemies that also act like bombs and such. Finding items in dungeons also allows for moments where you see things you can't do in the dungeon until you get the item and then they can have through lines and they can act like a more elaborate and interesting key. I think A Link To The Past is a good reference for a Zelda game with a balance of linearity and freedom. Yes dungeons are labelled in a numbered order on the map but there's a lot of instances where you can do them out of order but not all of them allowing some dungeons to take advantage of items you got in previous dungeons for more varied gameplay. I'd be very content with a 3D game that does what A Link To The Past does structurally but instead of numbering the dungeons to just show which ones you can do at the moment based on your items and such. I think its nice to have multiple choices for things you can do in a game. It makes you feel more like you have agency rather then going on a predetermined path. Its also nice because if somethings too hard you can go do something else for a moment. At some point too much choice has diminishing returns because you've gotta design everything for if the player is either at the beginning of the game or at the end or has any combinations of items or weapons or none of them or whatever.
Let link use a multitude of weapons, Swords, 2h Swords, Spears, hammers, daggers, ect. Give them infinite durability, But temporary items to augment them ALA TotK. Differentiate enemies to the point that some weapons have favorable match ups against certain enemies (attack patterns and so on).
Open World! Yes! Make the next Zelda game be very open world like BOTW and TOTK, but give the animation for it realistic art like Twilight Princess had. That's what I want.
Zelda since BotW went too far in the open direction. Even in the original Zelda you had to get: 8 triforce pieces, bombs, the bow, arrows, silver arrows, and a sword so you could beat Gannon. That meant finding them, and completing all 8 other dungeons in mostly any order. This is not the same as nothing mattering, and going straight to Gannon, but it's also not gaiting most of the order you play the game in. There were things you could not do untill you found an item, and they were not just stat boost items. The bombs, candle, and latter all increased traversal abilities, like good Zelda items do. You had to find them rather than being handed them at the beginning of the game. I like the ability to choose where to go, but if nothing actually matters in the quest why go somewhere at all. Have a large field you can explore no matter what you have, but have some important areas and some secret ones that require items. Have 3 different places you can go to complete 3 quests in any order that give you a traversal item at the end. That item opens up 3 more that can completed in any order, and other secrets on the field. Balancing linear and open is what Zelda needs.
i think it will and it should still be open world, but have big legacy dungeons only accesible with a specific gadget/skill. i was heartbroken when the remaining parts of the wheel of powers in totk were just the camera, the map, the amiibo and a save space for crafts. so yeah, having some 2 - 4hrs dungeons with needed stuff to get pass through them will be ideal. i know more skills equal a harder time balancing all out, and not having them clash between them, but i feel that THAT is the way to go. obviously it will be great to have a lot more movesets in weapons, have idk crossbows, that the staff werent just a weak weapon that spawns an element ball, better LOD and more details graphically speakin. but yeah, to keep it a 95/100 saga the least they need to do is basically a new map, with legacy dungeons, and the rest be mostly continuity.
@@R.A.M_Games but if we are talking about an open world game, you need big dungeons. Hyrule castle could be one, volcano too, and so on. how i imagine it is basically something similar to elden ring, but probably easier to break since you can just fly through things you know, like you could loot everything, and get that 2hs experience, or just run to the obvious place in a linear way and get you needed thing
It should be both, the series needs to craft multiple independent stories and be unafraid of consequences of how a limited set interacts in alternate order.
Team Linear over here. It's not that the items are different now, it's that they're GONE. You get four runes that let you play with the physics of the game, and that's it. There's nothing that changes the way you play the game. It's all available right at the start. In general nothing has more value than anything else cause it all has to be on the same level. Difficulty is also a factor that's hard to do in an open game, especially when the game gives you the "freedom" to pause the game instantly and fully heal yourself immediately after being attacked. That or restore stamina instantly while climbing with an enduring salad or whatever. The mechanics in open world Zelda also just feel like what every other modern open world game is doing, crafting, stealth, bullet time, climbing towers, taking out enemy camps. It's all so... homogenous. It's not innovating, which is what Nintendo used to do.
I do think all the upcoming AAA Zelda titles should focus on making each open world Zelda title bigger and better than the last one while balancing wide varieties of quality gameplay to match the quantitative worlds. But of course ALttP style 2D Zelda games or OoT style 3D Zelda games can still be made as side projects whether they be remakes of older titles or brand new games that are spiritual successors to those games.
I play Zelda games since SNES. BotW and TotK are my favorites. I think the main games should be open world but that do not exclude the possibility of smaller games being made the linear way, like Link's Awakening for example.
I thought that botw was too far from what I expected from zelda but totk really mesh together the linear and open world soo perfectly I don’t know why we should go back to a linear version.
with that being said... improvements in weapon durability and dungeons would be welcomed. I'm also a fan of the OoT and TP art themes so it'd be nice to get something a bit more realistic/darker. Now to actually watch the video...
i'd just like to ask, what makes you think it got stale by skyward sword? i know it's a consensus from the fans that the game wasn't good, and i get it, it has a lot of shortcomings, a lot more than other titles the game was way too guiding and tutorialized, and that i literally cannot deny, but like, that's one game's issue, not the formula right? i mean i've played TP, MM, OOT, they all felt good, skyward sword is the only outlier i can see the fans agree on as a "stale game" even if i disagree with that, so i'd like to understand, what makes you think it was the formula that got stale, and not the game that had a bad execution of said formula?
