Should Giants GM Joe Schoen be on the hot seat? 

I'd like to see both Schoen & Daboll with the Giants at least 2 more years. Continuity, is underrated.

Just looked up Eli's Giants. 6 of 17 seasons went to playoffs. Too much to ask ANY GM to go to playoffs consistently.

No he nor Daboll should be on the hot seat.

If Neal doesnt show significant improvement, idk. Schoen shouldve had a longterm back up plan for tackle. I like elu, but we need to develop this line.

Also, I want to say that Schoen only had real draft capital in a draft year that had horrible QBs. I truly believe that if the 2022 draft class was as good as the 2023 one, DJ would not be the QB. The worse thing, ironically, that Schoen did was in hiring Daboll because that kind of made it so that he never could get a bad enough team to get a top QB in 2023 or 2024.

Good stuff Keep grinding Go blue!

I would give Schoen and Daboll 5 years. We have been changing GM's and HC's way too fast in the last few years, need to give these guys some time. to build the roster.

Though, i like that hes addressed the WR, CB, LB, and TE/S positions. Without those, having a good line means zilch.

Not only is this the best Giants Pod, this is the best team focused podcast regardless of sport. Great work. One thing to point out re: the discussion about re signing Jones and keeping the band together after ‘22. I don’t take issue with the decision to re sign him. You have to build a winning culture over time and bringing an over achieving team back is part of that (even if they had a lower ceiling). The issue is ultimately the way they did it. Saquon franchise tag was fine. It’s the dollar amount, time length, and injury guarantee in the jones contract that was a big mistake. They were solely bidding against themselves. I cannot fathom that even a team as stupid as the panthers were willing to pay money like that to jones. That and the misevaluation of the oline last year have been the lows with Schoen. That said, it’s way too soon for the hotseat. They need more time to build proof of concept with the type of team architecture they are constructing. GMs have 2 levels to be evaluated on: 1. Process and strategy 2. Specific talent scouting. The first is more about understanding team building, positional value, ROI on assets. The second is about then choosing the right player. Example: Howie Roseman is great at the former and decent at the later (though Hurts may turn out to be a mistake). Reese was bad at the former and good at the later (at least at first). Gettleman was bad at both. Schoen has an incomplete on both fronts so far. He has shown an understanding and appreciation of asset value and modern team building approaches with a few blunders (like the specifics of the jones contract). He has some hits and misses on player evaluation. We need to see a few more years before we really know anything.

We need to give them another 2 years. If we arent competing for the NFC East by 2026 its time for a change. What im excited about is the depth we're building on the roster. We were very thin under Gettleman and Judge. I am tired of feeling like one guy going down tanks our whole season. We arent quite there yet but we're alot closer than when Shoen started here.

Whoever decided that DJ should be paid that much and stick with him is the person who should be on the hot seat. Entering year 3 of a rebuild with no QB is wild.

Only if the O-Line is still cartoonishly bad this season. Like if the O-Line gets beat by opposing D-Lines this year so be it, but I just don't want to see them beating themselves. If the O-Line looks like broken Madden cpu like it did last year where guys are blocking each other instead of the guy in front of them after they've had a full offseason to try to at least improve upon the issue then maybe Schoen and Daboll should be shown the door. I don't want them to be fired, but if the Giants can't show even the bare minimum of improvement in the trenches this year it isn't a glowing endorsement of this regime.

Nicks John Mara impression is amazing I’ve said this before…good analysis. I think you have to consider the other prospects in the 2022draft when evaluating Thibs and Neal. They weren’t all that impressive unless he went WR. Nobody blamed him for going pass rusher and Tackle…nobody saw Evan Neal being a Giant loser either. The process was sound…take the pass rusher at 5 and take whatever tackle out of the 2 was left. It just hasn’t worked out. Evan Neal would probably be a Pro Bowler but he got picked with Dave Gettleman’s draft pick…lol. We wouldn’t want Micah Parsons anyways…rather have Kadarius Toney and Evan Neal. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Giants on hard knocks and in my hometown Munich … this has to be a great year 🎉❤

I like the shirt Dan!! PFF giving Giants lowest rating for Oline for upcoming season. While I appreciate the effort of Schoen to address the Oline and other needs, I’m not sure any staff can survive another piss poor performance by Oline. Not sure I can either!! He drafted 4 Olineman and spent a lot of draft capital on them and they all have grossly underperformed. As always really enjoyed the discussion gentlemen!!

I think that it is unfortunate. Had Penix not had so many catastrophic injuries in college, he might have been a top 10 worthy pick, but he did. For that reason alone, the Giants were wise to pass him by.

You guys need to work on your title card font game. :D love the show.

Nick, please do your John Mara impersonation much more often. It’s amazing. Lmfao.

His first draft class needs to come to the fore this season. this season completely goes to pot like last season then I think the seat starts heating up

I don't think he should be on the hot seat at all. Technically this is only his 2nd offseason with an actual budget.

In a sense all GMs are on the hot seat… it’s just a matter of how hot. I like Schoen and Daboll and expect success from both. And neither should be worried about getting fired this season. It has been three drafts and three FA classes so we need to see results. Process is fine.. wins are the final determination of success. Unless the wheels come off completely (e.g. 2-15 record) I expect these guys to be here for a good while. Yeah Schoen inherited a bad situation from a cap perspective but he also inherited a 5th and 7th pick. The cap was a mess but that was a 1-2 season issue. He didn’t pick up Jones’ 5th year option and in retrospect that was a bad move. They wouldn’t be in a $40million bind if they had. It was a bad decision at the time as it also put Jones and Saquon up against each other in free agency As you mentioned he also inherited some good quality young talent. On balance, though he has made more good decisions than bad. Aside from Neal… I do like the drafts and the FA picks. They are headed in the right direction. You guys are great. Best regards. Victor

Do you think the injury guarantees like D. Jones and R. Wilson signed are actually a negative for the players careers? I just don't see how the Giants can risk putting Jones out on the field with that injury clause risk for 2025? Without the injury clause I have no problem seeing what he has in 2024 but with the injury risk clause how can you play him unless the clause is dropped or changed?

I have to disagree with the win a playoff game then blow it up. Especially considering he was part of the front office that did that exact thing in Buffalo. Now if you wanna say it came down from Mt Mara to resign one of the two and Jones jumped first at a contract I can buy that, but seeing what the team was and the lack of real offensive production in 22 from the QB position (700 rushing yards is not something that makes a good QB when you still only throw for 3k and 15 tds)

I get what you guys are saying. But to be fair the fans who are saying Scheons seat should start to get warm are the same fans who were saying in real time that that 2022 season was a fluke and paying Jones a big contract was a huge mistake. So in those eyes he showed really bad process with the most important position in football. Plus he got crushed in the negotiations with the injury guarantee

Can we get some Dan-M-X in the intro😂😂 love channel guys

This was an interesting exercise. Thanks for providing context and thought to everything involved in how the team to got to this point. I feel a lot of fans are cherry picking moments to support their opinion rather than putting everything together to see it more clearly. My biggest example would be that the Evan Neal selection was a mistake. It absolutely hasn’t worked this far. Not even debatable on that. That doesn’t make it a mistake the selection was universally lauded when it occurred. By fans, a lot of whom now call it egregious, amd pundits. So the pick @ the time wasn’t a mistake. This wasn’t some trying to out smart every other team in the draft selection. It just has gone poorly. I mean, people were tripping over themselves to laud the work Schoen did his first season. This fan base is just so worn out from the trash we have watched for the past decade plus that ptsd has set in. So now some put all of that on this regime. Schoen and his FO are only accountable for 2 seasons. The first surprisingly good. The second surprisingly terrible. That’s it so far though. The long term suffering for us is not his problem. So when fans ask how long should we be patient? We’ve been patient long enough, while true in the case of the NYG in general, not nearly long enough with Schoen imo. When he interviewed for the job I’m sure he didn’t tell JM that he could turn around 11 years of gatbage in 3 years. He most likely gave a 5 year plan. Patience for this regime is required. I have learned from our experience that this dismal period of disfunctional NYG football lies squarely on the instability @ the GM/HC roles. Everytime we start over, we throw away the last few years of talent acquisition that were all brought for a specific vision that completely changes philosophy, scheme and fit. It’s the hamster wheel and it needs to stop.

Schoen is the best GM since EA.

If none of the draft picks from the last few drafts develop into good starting players and the draft picks from this year don’t develop then yes. Can’t be a competitive team if all your draft picks are misses. Hes been good in free agency but the drafts haven’t been that good. This year will tell us a lot

No as long as the team is progressing him and daboll should be fine.

I really really like the way you guys have laid out the case for how this GM and HC are making the right decisions. I really agree with another comment that continuity is huge…they should get 2 more years at least. I really liked the way you laid out how Joe S could have drafted JJ to extend his life. I also saw a comment on Evan Neal being a bust is on Joe S. I don’t agree with that…many other talent evaluators would be wrong too. So not necessary an indictment on the GM.

You're dreaming if you think Jones will attain anything near the passing stats of Goff mentioned. I think he's done as a starter after this year if not sooner.

Dan the problem is,half the people on Twitter are trolls.It’s insane to me,that people think the hot seat is at a eight.After one bad season and all the injuries,the situation schoen walk into was the worst in the nfl.I’d say the hot seat is a three also,winning a playoff game earned him and daboll four years

I wouldn't say either Schoen or Daboll should be on the hot seat, but both need to show that what they are doing is putting this franchise in the right direction and see that improvement each week. Even in losses

Having the GM have to listen in on the headsetsand having the DC going straight to the owner makes me question Dabolls leadership. Rich Eisen talking about GM having "buyers remorse" having it publicly leaked the you tried to trade up with NE for a qb and missed. The face of the franchise is now on a bitter rivals team. Not to mention your started by out doing that to Bradbury. It takes at least a year to comeback from an acl tear. You choose Drew Lock as the backup??? There could easily be 6 games played without jones. Plus jones will have a learning curve comeback. Do you even want to watch next year? If any part of you is saying no not really, than both seats should be hot.

He’s not on the hot seat bc Daniel Jones is the scapegoat. Schoen has also brought the team out of cap hell. He has a long leash, especially with a trash QB he didn’t sign off on. He probably has 2-3 years to work with before they have to look at Schoen as possibly being the problem bc he hasn’t even fully rebuilt the team the way he wants it yet.

I don't believe Schoen should be fired but there is some pressure there right now for sure to do a good job as there should be with the questions we have after handling the offseason with the DJ extension and keeping everyone else. Not trading X or Saquon was a mistake as well. With you guys talking about it being hard to move off of DJ especially but the other guys too after going to the playoffs year 1 I disagree because as Schoen you are gonna get hate from the fans if you didn't build a contender in the first 4 or 5 years regardless of the moves you made so you better make the moves you believe are right. Only thing I can see messing with the DJ deal in the offseason would be Mara meddling because as the GM if you want to move off of DJ you just fucking do it and it is what it is at the moment the fans can complain all they want it doesn't really do anything. They really should have just let him hit the market because nobody was gonna pay him what they did, bidding against themselves is the grossest part of the deal looking back. Tag would have been fine too and letting Snake leave that offseason. Despite all that stuff I want to say that GMing is all about moving forward and good process attacking that because of the butterfly effect and inability to change the past even though it is valuable to look at the past through the process lense to judge GMs. As for specifically why Schoen shouldn't be fired right now just like you guys said it doesn't accomplish anything. This is the offseason that the team actually became his build in my eyes, it is officially his roster now so lets see how the vision plays out and then of they can get a quarterback to greatly enhance the build. As far as Neal was he BPA for them since that was a topic of the process in this discussion? You guys mentioned it was pretty much pre-determined to be a tackle drafted at either 5 or 7 in the class and to me looking back and as you also said in the episode with Toney as an example that is just horrible process to pigeon hole a spot like that. I'm very sure they had Icky higher on their board but were fine taking either after getting Thibodeaux as Schoen said post draft. I do wonder if that was a slightly forced pick and maybe Garrett Wilson was higher as a player for them or maybe not but I hope they didn't just force tackle in that class because they "needed" it. Another butterfly effect thing from then to now being different if they did this but I sure would love it so much more if Dave took Darrisaw and then Schoen took Wilson. All they had to do is have a decently capable vet to not have to force tackle at 7 and I guess that guy was actually Gono that they signed thinking about it

If Gettleman drafts DJ at say 20 and Barkley at around 15 he has some other big picks. But he still has bad cap management on his ledger. To think Eli's problem at the end was Eli was wrong. The Giant's problem was and still is the OL. Eli was getting killed standing back there. Just because DJ could run didnt mean he wasnt going to get killed. 6 years of getting killed takes a toll. I think G-men are still 2 years from being competitive. Nevermind consistent playoffs and beyond. Forget putting a young QB in this mess. Look more at San Fran. You can put a guy like Brock Purdy in if everything else is right.

I imagine Nick's Biden sounds similar to his Mara lol

I'm shocked there aren't any poker analogies about the importance of process and how variance makes evaluating the process difficult. 😂

The problem with Schoen is he is a scout and if you read moneyball you know that scouts believe they can see things others cant. And more oftwn than not they are dead wrong about that. The nfl is terrible at evaluating players, not just college but also actual nfl players. The bust rates for FAs and draft picks is honestly laughable. Saying that, i liked what giants did 1-3 but everything after that was a waste. The bust rate for players after the 2nd round is ASTRONOMICAL. The only way to counteract that is to draft more players. Six picks is just not cutting it and is indicative of a scouting dept that thinks they have it figured out. And NO ONE DOES. The teams that draft decent (statistically no one drafts 'good') simply draft more players. Its craps not poker.

I don’t think joe schoen should be on the hot seat, but the bar shouldn’t be better than gettleman who is probably the worst gm ever. He shouldn’t be exempt from criticism and if the results don’t match the process, then he should get heat from that. That being said , I believe our roster is headed in the right direction. The quarterback situation is what it is, he tried to address it, but there are other positions on a football team and from where we were when joe was hired, he has improved or taken good steps in improving both sides of the ball. My biggest critique of joe schoen is addressing the oline last year. He didn’t sign any starting lineman, and we lucked into jms in the draft when ben bredeson would have been our starting center. He risked that the previous draft would develop and they didn’t. Once Thomas went down, that blew up the season.

I think if they let DJ hit free agency they could have resigned him for less then the contract they gave him but I realize that would have been a risky move.

Another thing on Daboll. Him blowing up on the sideline and not handling adversity well puts him on the hot seat more than Schoen IMO. Cursing at staff during game, taking away play calling then giving it back then giving OC a “promotion” sounds like a shit show. Very easy to be a leader when u r winning. True character shows when you r losing.

Schoen wanted to bring Jones back, but not for 40 aav. That was all Mara. It was reported at the time that Mara and Jones spoke on the phone the DAY HE SIGNED THE DEAL. Mara absolutely loves Jones and it's understandable why. In a city like NY, where you have an entire week spent talking about a rookie QB banging a friend of his mom, even more about psychedelics and darkness retreats and zero to do with football itself, Jones was inviting skill players to Arizona to work on timing and growing more familiar with one another on and off the field. The nonsense that we saw with the Jets was front of mind for Mara and he appreciated that you would never get that with Jones. Mara is a bit gunshy with star players becoming national stories about things unrelated to football. He isnt like other owners who have revenue outside the game who bought a team out of bordeom, the Giants are his brand. There is absolutely a price worth paying for that peace of mind as far as he is concerned. So if Schoen saw Jones as a 25-30m player, Mara was okay giving 40m. For all the potential he has physically, for how he never wavered despite a turbulent situation around him, yearly progress in aspects of his game, ungodly work ethic bringing teammates to work together on their own, plus the progress under Daboll, 4th quarter comebacks to win games late in the year and ultimately being the best player on the field in his first ever playoff game on the road. Schoen is not on the hotseat for giving Jones 40 because the decision to give him that much was made by Mara, evidenced by the fact their negotiations only ended after Daniel Jones and Mara spoke on the phone. Not Schoen and his agent, not Schoen and Jones but Mara and Jones. Tells me that Schoen gets a mulligan on going to 40 aav because it isnt a number he ever offered himself.

Hey guys I believe all GM seats should be around a two so they don't take the job for granted and constantly incentivized to their best... should he be fired after this season if the development of his first two drafts don't happen

He will be on the hot seat regardless of whether or not he deserves to be .

Mara should be on the hot seat...but he owns the couch 😂💯

As much as ive defended schoen its yes. Hes had three years to fix the offensive line and the most he has to show for it is Andrew Thomas and he wasnt even his pick. If the line isnt top 16 this year hes gone. No way it should take more than 3 years to get even ONE lineman thats as good as AT or even close tonit.

Nobody other than the giants fans thought about Gettleman. Nobody cared enough to label the worst GM.

Tank tank tank 😅

Joe Schoen on the "hot seat"...... In a word, NO...... in two words, HELL NO!! That would be like firing him for the Daniel Jones contract, which I'm sure Daboll and even John Mara were totally on board with. I don't expect this year to resemble last year at all, regardless of who ends up at QB.

Schoen has a good process, but his eye for talent has been questionable so far

If anything Daboll should be in the hot seat way before Shoen. That whole wink drama, screaming at players, then hiring Bobby Johnson are in the HC more than the GM. John Mara said that they are not exclusively a team and that he reviews their jobs individually from one another so I think Daboll could go before Shoen

Well let's not forget the Lions have probably the best offensive line in football. Off line and quarterback play are tied together. Also they have a strong running game. They run a ton of play action. Jones will have to use these weapons and a better oline

We believe in Joe and Daboll. They have at least 2 more years

5 years is a good number to judge them. This team was in bad shape when they came in. Ownership will know if this team is a contender by then.

At what point the Giants fan realize that if we traded barkley that 3 game winning streak does not happen. 🤣 "We tried to move" with a team that need a QB? wow.

Noooo ! U cant a roster over that fast . Just because u have pressure from being in new york. They gave gettleman a long leash because he was owners buddy and he didn't know what the hell he was doing Give these guys time.

This is his third year how is he in the hot seat already? 😂 No, I don't believe joe nor daboll are in the hot seat.

John Mara should be on the hot seat

IMHO, Joe and Daboll would be on the hot seat for drafting Drake because, at best, Maye is going to be Mac Jones 2.0. Sorry, but you can wax poetically all you want about Maye, but I don't think he is HIM. But one of the biggest hot seats issues for me is if training camp is Club Med and the team isn't prepared better than last year... don't let the door hit you.

Nope for what? 😂 You kept Jones for 6 years. We can keep Joe and Daboll for 2 more seasons.

Joe Schoen inherited an absolute shit show. Howie Roseman probably couldn’t have put them in that much of a better situation in the little bit of time he’s been given. If Evan Neal turns his play around then this conversation takes a seriously different turn. It’s also obvious that the Giants are going to do whatever they have to do to get a QB of their liking in the near future. If we are using poker analogies…they will go all in. All of a sudden then they are interesting as we maybe have the fastest WR group on the league and arguably the best pass rushing defensive line in the league all of a sudden. We now have young foundational pieces locked up in good contracts at all the positions that really matter other than QB. CB1, pass rusher, WR and LT. That’s a great start in not even 3 off seasons especially when he was maxed out on the cap in the first off season and couldn’t even make any moves really because of it, then had to take big cap hits to get rid of the horrific contracts he was handed on top of it.

Why would he be on the hot seat? He made the playoffs in year 1 and team struggled last year. Him being on a hot seat is ridiculous.

That's a dumb question, and nothing to unpack. Not from any view. I appreciate this podcast, but really - this is stupid. Stick this in your craw - last season, the Giants - with a decimated roster - were two blown field goals and a couple of bad decisions by a departed backup QB from being 9-8. And, yeah, their first year this team was winning in the playoffs. If anything, last season this team showed character. After starting the season 2-8, they didn't pack it in. Instead, they stepped up and finished 4-3. I'm 4:45 into the podcast and tuning out. I have little patience for bad thinking.

first year took us to the playoffs, second year a lot of injuries, this is his third year . short answer NO

Answer. No, Schoen should not be on the hot seat. Good grief! Dude, please ditch the stache.

2025 Schoen will restart the QB clock & Schoen will be there.

Even Broaching the topic is ludicrous to me and is what's wrong in sports today. The had unexpected success in year one and that is not a barometer of where the team was to begin with. Last season actually was. Jerry Reese screwed this organization big time

No he shouldn’t be

It’s been the most incompetent coaching staff no situational football awareness from top to bottom Daboll better get it right Bill is on his way to save the cluster Fk of a organizations lack of leadership direction or elevation of any talent just sad it’s been yrs and yrs and yrs of the black cloud that hovers over due to how we let Tom and Eli finish they careers

Taylor outplayed Jones, Devito outplayed Jones. The team was trending in the right direction with Jones out. The quarterback situation needs to be addressed. There are other things as well, but the main thing is that the Giants need a QB

For how much y'all clown on DG, it's impressive how little you do on Schoen. He's brought in 0 elite talent (Brian Burns hasn't been elite) and has let a several high performance guys walk (McKinney, Engram, Barkley, Love). Major misses in Neal, JMS, Glow, Ezedu on the line so far. Thibs and Banks grading average. Wan'dale 2 years in with very little actual production. Double miss on Jones with turning down the 5th and then extending. The best players on the roster by a mile three years later are still Gettleman guys (AT and Dex). Only players that are maybe ourplaying their contract are Okereke and Pinnock.

LMFAO 🤣 Dave.G Krueger still got Dan on nightmares on MetElmLife street” Tine for Joe.S Voohees help you out cause he not on the Hot seat. He inherited 💩 The claws that D.G left behind.in D.L,A.T, D.J, & D.S Joe will put the in place to help him clear you from those bad dreams this season” GO BIGBLUE!!!!!

Hell no. This team was a train wreck the Gettleman regime left them.

Seriously? You guys are trying to start trouble.

Schoen should be on the hot seat this year. Poor capital management, poor draft class results, poor management of the QB situation. I like their draft picks this year but the issue is passing on QB when the Falcons and Vikings went on to grab Penix and JJ just a few picks later. This was a clear statement that Schoen thinks he’s smarter than those GMs and that their evaluation is incorrect. Instead they took a receiver to accelerate the offense and they’re still projected to be picking top 5-10 next year. They took a safety round 2 after deciding to let our star safety walk. His investment in Waller failed, now he’s drafting another TE. It’s using capital to correct bad decisions in FA. He took a slot CB in round 3, when we don’t have a solid outside CB2. He feels comfortable with Flott outside who’s built like a slot and can’t play that position because he’s not physical enough. Nail in the coffin is if he starts Jones late in the season and he gets hurt and ends up triggering the injury guarantee next year

This podcast should be on the hotseat for choosing a topic with a ridiculous premise.

Stop.... You guys run out of material this week???

No. He's been patching holes since he got here. Daboll should be on the hot sear. Daboll has regressed as a coach.