I had AA. I was actually in position, 4 betting from the button. And the river was a 6. I checked back flop, called turn, and raised jammed river for value. I felt the only hand I was losing too was QQ and if I faded the snap call, I could possibly get him to hero off KK,AQ, maybe KQs. But I'll admit that was optimistic.
This is ALWAYS a call and the reason being that villain never considers you to have trip 2’s or anything of that hand value both based on your sneaky hand and how you played each street. What does villain have? Is he bluffing or going for max value? Hard to say to either but if he had a strong hand, why would he go for such a bomb on the river? Wouldn’t he bet like $500-700 to get a call from a Q or 2pr or something similar? So I think you beat almost all of his value hands and then you beat his bluffs as well.
Exactly...!!! Pocket AA is not afraid of Pocket KK...when he checks the flop he most likely dont have Pocket QQ...I just cant lay down the hand he called with and hit trip 2...hes never giving you credit for a 2!!!
When the SB cold 4 bets so small, it feels more like AA, trying to get Hero to call wide. If Villain had QQ, I would expect them to raise over 4X, to fold out random AXs that have decent equity against them, like A2 for example...
95% chance he didn't have aces if he didn't show it while saying he had aces with his cards not in the muck. I lie and I see people like about their hands way more than people tell the truth. V had QQ or 10s -4000
You are correct and I call people out on that all the time, if they claim they have something while they still hold cards, but won't show the cards, they are 100% of the time lying.
Yes to check raise with AA here is ridiculous,its total bullshit that the guy had AA,he actually makes himself look like a fool CR'ing AA on the river on that board.Hard to beleive all the comments here that actually beleive his BS aswell
Yeah, look, you're one hundred percent right. It's just a lie because he was shocked he didn't get paid by A2. The shock was *that*, not that he got the "bluff" through. Just a liar.
What is with people assuming a player would never do this and a player would never do that... These aren't high stakes they are playing at.. There are plenty of fish that play at this level...
That's what I'm thinking. Having played low stakes online, there are a lot of people who would check call with pocket Qs all the way into the river and jam. Pocket Q's arent a horrible 4bet hand anyways, especially in fishy live games where ranges are wide. Hell, I've had my all ins called by 94o. There is no world where calling 94o is a good idea when you're nearly 50 bb deep. I think if hero had bet the flop, the turn, and continue to barrel and show strength, this situation wouldn't have come up because the Villain might think you're strong and just want to go to showdown rather than exploit weakness.
I always say, why call light with A2 and flop trips to fold on the river? You are either already beat on the flop with QQ or you’re good. The runout wasn’t a 4 card straight or 4 card flush. I’m taking my chances on the river card and I’m either doubling up or getting stacked. 🤷🏾♂️
@@CanadianLoveKnot V could easily had AQs. For which Im almost sure he had, putting his reaction after the showdown. He “upgraded” his hand to AA just to hide his playing pattern. He was jamming believing that was a value raise.
Can see villain checking aces on the flop (which he shouldn’t imo, every pocket pair is calling at least 1 bet even AK) checking turn tho, no chance AA is. Guy either had QQ or 1010
I’m surprised they didn’t talk about the definition of “bluffing” when discussing this hand. He kept saying he wouldn’t bluff with a worse hand. People at 2/5 would do this exact move with aces or kings and think they’re in the lead everytime
exactly, fish turn their hands into bluffs ALL THE TIME. It doesnt matter if the board is AQKJ2, if it gets checked down they're betting a pair of 2's because they dont know how to check back pairs on the river. If this guy had AA (should pretty much always assume people lie about their hands otherwise they would have just shown you) this particular opponent tried to get fancy with it and thought he had the nuts the whole way, with no concept of relative hand strength in general. All he was thinking was "must get it in with AA somehow" and this is how he thought to do it. In reality he probably didnt have AA and basically had nothing at all, maybe some whiffed backdoor flush draw and remembered an episode of the WSOP he saw on mute while at the bar and decided to just "do that".
@@donaldcedar7574 Im not saying you're wrong. Thats kind of what I am saying is that in this hand they seemed to have both been so caught up in the hero's hand and not enough on the other side.
@@donaldcedar7574 it might be ahead but it's a simple question of "does anything worse call?" and the answer is clearly no. I mean does Villain honestly think KK would call a bet like this on the river? Well, yeah in his mind assuming he's not lying he did, but that only proves V is a fish. Nobody is calling a 400BB pot off on a paired board with a single overpair unless they have a stone cold read that their opponent is a maniac.
I’m not sure if/how much poker differs between the coasts but I’ve very little reason to doubt that the villain had AA. Not only is this plausible...but in-fact highly common. As I’ve always stated here, one of the biggest holes in many of our games is the inability to properly gauge opponents. We often believe that others subscribe to our level of thinking. Even more naive is the thought that our opponents are also able to gauge us appropriately. The 4bet pre, check on a small paired flop to allow us to bluff or improve to a second best hand, and jam hoping for a crying call with KKs or AQs. Also blockers are only what they are and it should be valued appropriately. Even with a semi-competent villain... Roughly...~ Preflop {QQ+, AKs, and @ a lower % overvalued 10s/Js/AK, or air}. Post flop check {AA,QQ, AKs/o, air} Turn play {poorly played AA/QQ/rev.float} River Jam {poorly played AA/QQ/10s or @ very small %...bluff} Also you can often tell when people are being honest albeit
First time I've disagreed with Bart's analysis. Trappy AA seems highly likely for villian. You already said Hero should have no deuces in his range. Therefore in the eyes of villain, hero is heavily weighted to AQ and KQss, therefore has no major qualms with shoving river for value.
Yes and hero under played his hand by checking flop. I think the river is an auto call. Hero should have looked at the hand from villains perspective. Hero didn’t look that strong with check back flop.
yeah - key is that he assumes hero can't have a 2, and there are no draws. he's under-repped his hand and can spring the trap, figuring he's only losing to a cooler full house. plus he might be able to get Hero to fold A2suited lol.
Other than the pair of 2's on the flop, the board is very dry. No straights or flushes get there, I could 100% see that AA would take this line after a river bet. He was trying to fade QQ or TT only, not worried about a random 2 or 77 considering the pre-flop action.
Yep, agree. To the 4better, this looks like IP is pot controlling top pair flop & going for small value turn & River vs what looks like villains AK. It looks like top pair to vilian, so makes sense for villain to X/jam for value - it's a line I have taken in the past where they call with top pair. Agree 100%
I thought QQ too. But apparently the winner of the hand commented and still claims he had AA, he also disputes some details of how the hand played out.
@@1stFactChecker AA is probably what some fish would imagine is a premium hand when he's trying to conceal the fact he bluffed. Nobody does this with AA, especially since we block it too. However fish will run nonsense crazy big bluffs on occasion just to "MiX iT Up"
This is a slam dunk call. I was specifically thinking about how many recs would play kings and/but especially aces this way. There are a ton of players that would practically node lock you out of having a 2. The only plausible 2 is a2 suited which he massively blocks and you checked back the flop. From his perspective a 2 is highly unlikely, there's a ton more of Qx than boats in your range. Your hand is disguised and under repped. I don't doubt him having aces for a second, overvaluing aces and kings is very common with recs.
Suited ace deuce is worse than suited Ace 7 in multi-way limped pot but not heads up in a 3bet pot. You no longer are concerned about having a small hint of the straight in the three-bet pot...
Guys what do you think of this line, Am I fish?. 4 handed, utg opens to 12 (straddle is on to 5, playing 1:2) +1 calls. I look down at queen queen in the sb and make it 55, utg 4bets to 125, I call. River comes 9 high and villain jams 3x pot( we are 750 effective)- I call relatively quickly and villain shows ace ace.
I'd be curious to know what the villain had the the hero on. Is it reasonable for the villain to think that he's winning on the river given the hero's range for calling a 4-bet from the button?
@@simonliem937 it’s reasonable for villain to believe they’re ahead at the river for sure. Hero could certainly have KK or AQ. But I’m not check-raise shoving. The fact hero folded A2 means hero is definitely folding KK or AQ. It’s essentially turning AA into a bluff which makes no sense since no better hands will fold (except A2 which you’d never expect your opponent to show up with).
Honestly I think the Villain could very likely having a QQ by the way he played it. He already had a nut on the flop and just want to slow play. Imaging yourself as the Villain, would you not bet on the flop with AA or KK? To me it just seemed unreasonable.
Was playing this last Sunday night at the Wynn in Vegas....let me get to the point...people over play Pocket AA all the damn Time!!..I had Pocket JJ ...I 3bet the guy 4 bets ...and I know I'm behind so I decided to call...I'm positive he has either Pockets AA or KK he looks eager to get money in...at that point I'm like if I dont hit the flop gonna have to fold....but I have been running good so I decided to call...J in the window...I check he goes All in...clean run out ...he gets felted
I believe the AA guy and think it makes sense. Thought it's less about pot control imo than deception and inducing a bluff. The guy w AA has nut 2 pair, and thinks Hero can't have trips, so he's only losing to a cooler full house (or quads). I think he thinks he has more value in checking to hide his strength and induce a bluff than there is in betting out for value or protection. Once he sees the flop of Q22, he knows he has nut 2 pair the whole way at least, and it's a disconnected, rainbow board so there's no draws except a possible two-out full house draw against pocket pairs. At the end he figures he should only lose to a flopped Qs full, turned 7s full, or maybe 10s full, and seems to think that in that case nh he'll just go broke, otherwise it's lay in the weeds until the last moment, then go for value hoping he maybe even looks like he could be bluffing.
100% Thom. I think Bart and Hero's analysis of this hand didn't sufficiently consider what hands the villain could be holding. Given that the Villain 4bet Hero's 3 bet pre-flop, it's looking like AA or KK that he is holding. Given no straight or flush draws Villain's shove on the river is clearly a value bet. The Villain was entitled to think his top two pair was good, as he couldn't reasonably put Hero on trip 2's. The Hero should have called the Villain for a sick bad-beat.
Point is : If you are seriously afraid of a shove at the end...... why are you betting? Seriously 1/3 of most starting raiseable hands got your set beat..... otherwise call.... even as an advertisement
I’m nor saying villain played it well, but AA makes some sense to me. From his perspective, he’s only worried about 3 combinations of hands on the flop and turn, and at most 6 on the river. He’s playing it like a nutted slow play hand, just hoping another q, and probably k, doesn’t hit the board. When he shoves the river, hes hoping kk calls him. It’s bad play but not uncommon at lower limits.
This may be a case where they are leveling themselves. Alot of the time with hands like this the guy isn't going to put him on the 2 it was a 4 bet pot he was probablythinking AQ or JJ remember the check check on the flop the guy is like yes traped him.
Folding trips is a massive leak considering the pre-flop action... The only combos you should even be slightly worried about are the QQ ones. If he has QQ, chalk it off as variance and move on. I really hate villain's shove if he has KK, that would be spewy. Villains can overplay in this spot however and IF you think he is remotely capable of overvaluing AA or KK then you have to call...
Didn’t understand the logic behind, “there’s no value I beat. There’s plenty more combinations of KKs Or AA’s then QQs there. And in a live 2/5 you don’t think people are check jamming on a board like that??)!
@@Gos1234567 Apparently the caller misreported the hand a lot and with the actual action of the hand there's a decent chance that villain had AA, but if we're going with what is reported here alone, this is clearly not aces.
I don't know why a bunch of people are saying no way to AA. The 4 bet tilts this dudes hand toward KK or AA. Also from the 4 bettors perspective there isn't anything out there to worry about except QQ and TT. When the flop came with 2 dueces he was probably relieved he didn't have to deal with 2 pair if a K or J peels off. From the "Hero" here, if your calling $150 pre with Primetime (Deion Sanders aka Primetime #21 or 2As) and flop a set of dueces what the fuck are you doing when you fold this. This entire line makes no sense as well, call a big 4 pre flop and check when checked to with this wonderfully lucky flop. Then fold put when raised. In this situation he has to make the call and if the villain shows up with QQ or TT then you learn a lesson about playing 4 bet pots with Primetime. (Maybe he learned his lesson by folding anyway). I also believe the guy you there that says he is the villain and was on the button. Our caller seemed a little fishy and everything about this hand makes more sense when it goes- Hero checks trying to PFR and V checks behind to get action from Qx. Hero leads the turn and V calls. Hero leads river and V over bets with his AA.
I'm 13 mins in, but a four-bet pre in 2/5 has almost no bluffs here. AKs and maybe AJs are bluffs or QQ or 1010 for value. And he's not weighted toward bluffs anyway. The two As combos he has will be blocking AK for hero. You'd have to throw in some kamikaze bluffs here to justify a call, which is unlikely.
If Villain has AA and looking at this board along with the preflop action, he's thinking he's probably trying to get value from a Q. He's never worried about a 2. Villain was just playing it too trappy, and it confused Hero (and Bart, apparently).
Hero's line is @best is mediocre. call 4b pre with A2H check the flop bet the turn than you fold to check raise shove on the river? so basically he is hoping to Hit flush on the non paired board to call the shove. just give your self a favourite and play 100bb stacks or fold pre if you have more than 300bb.
villian either has 2 pr with AA or KK, and is trying to semi bluff hero off at river [b/c he sensed weakness], or disguised QQ all along, or hit the 10 10 on river. gotta have spidy tingles on to sense bluff or not...
You can’t semi bluff on the river. Semi bluffing is where you bluff with a drawing hand. As for bluffing on the river with AA, that makes no sense. What better hands are expecting to get to fold? QQ is the effective nuts. No one who gets to the river with TT is folding. So unless you think hero has A2, which is a very unusual holding in a 4-bet pot AND is capable of folding it, you can’t get any better hands to fold.
Don't believe the villain lied. Hero should never, ever, ever have a deuce, especially one that checks back the flop, and very few Qx hands. From villain's pov, it looks like an aggressive preflop call that is giving up. So he checks turn too and gives him rope to hang himself. Hero bets half-pot on a brick, no reason to raise with Aces. Hero then bets around 60% on the river. I can see how he finds the x/r on the river having faced only two very non-polarizing bets. He'd most likely just call the river had the Hero bet the flop and every street as you'd expect from such an unlikely made hand and almost every Qx he's got in his range.
limp, $20 middle position raise, Button 3 Bet $55, Small Blind $150 4 Bet. I think if someone had 77, 10s, or QQ in that Small Blind spot they’d raise more pre flop to protect the hand or if they had 77 they’d be raising more as a bluff. AA seems more logical of a hand for villain to have then those hands judging by the 4 Bet sizing, After the flop the villain goes into slow play mode on every street then check raise all in on the river hoping to get value from a Queen and I guess praying that the Hero doesn’t have QQs, 10s or 77 all of which could be true as played.
Reason he thought he was raising for value, is because preflop 4 bet and you checked the flop and he didn’t believe you had a 2. So he has the best 2 pair.
I believe he did have Aces..... and when he shoved... he believed he was betting for value.... cause he's not putting you on a deuce... He truly believed he was in the lead..... The caller over thought the hand and played scared..... I agree w one of the other commenters....you call PF w A2 and flop trips.. what else do you want? would he only be calling the river with quads?
@@ZeraLord I would agree if Villain checked Flop only. But checking Flop AND Turn is (would have been) a criminal waste of AA. Remember Flop went Check, Check. How silly would Villain have felt if Turn also went Check, Check?! Villain was willing to give away TWO streets of value?!...No way.
Never underestimate how stupid your opponent can be. I’ve seen too many idiots value-raising with Aces and Kings on this type of run out. These are the best kinds of fish to stack off.
I don’t think it’s a matter of calling a player “good” and assuming they can find bluffs. Anyone can find a bluff, and sure, few will actually use them. The question is whether they use enough bluffs such that there’s a risk of them overbluffing. If they are just bluffing to the point of being balanced, who cares? Your decision doesn’t matter at that point.
Why do people that always under rep there hand wind up leaning to folding a monster when they looked jus like they were barely hanging on the whole hand then act surprised over a bluff or over value bet
With an opponent who isn't capable of checking great hands to protect his range we can assume that he has never AA when he checked twice almost always. The vilain had QQ mainly if we think he isn't bluffing at all. Anyway PIO is crying :)
One of the cool things about live poker is that you're playing for real money against people who play extremely obvious all the time. This is not a bluff, people don't bluff like this in casinos. This is someone who trapped with their very big hand and is now springing the trap. You're not afraid that he has queens, you know that he has queens, because he isn't good enough to not have queens.
People bluff like this all the time, and overvalue their hands all the time, especially in live poker. Live poker players, especially in casinos, just aren't good. The guy wasn't bluffing with aces, he was thinking he was trapping.
I honestly did not understand why this is a call in until he starts talking folds here on the river. I mean I would start betting flop personally expecting 0 folds and a lot of x raises. This also sets me up for barreling some BDF and gutter type hands A4 A5s etc. This fold is the classic deviation/assumption game that is so dangerous. Oh he’s never bluffing here! And he’s s good player! But he’s never bluffing! And he’s good so he would never value own himself! All this reeks of overvaluing your “reads” and using them to justify bad plays. Play good poker, don’t be scared, and don’t fold trips in a 4bet pot ever..
No way he had AA. Hero didn't play hand like a strong queen, more like JJ or 1010 stabbing on turn. If this guy was the only other "competent" one at table then he'd know that and never check jam trying to get tens full to fold holding AA or force JJ to insta fold. Villian had QQ and was really saying that he bet too much on river, not overvalued.
I’m definitely betting JJ or TT on the turn. After checking flop and turn Villain’s hand looks exactly like whiffed AK; I don’t want them to see a river for free. I do also think hero could have QQ. Again, villain’s hand looks like whiffed AK so maybe hero checks behind hoping villain will take a stab on the turn?
the villain wasn't worried about a deuce. probably figures he only loses to qq or tt. a shove with kk or aa isn't that hard to believe. with his weird line he probably thought he could get a call from some type of q. he checks flop because he is not worried about losing to two pair. probably thinks he isn't gonna get three streets from a queen anyway so he is pot controlling and also letting k containing hands catch up.
I doubt you are good 1 out of 8 times here. When you are good, it will often be a very inexperienced player who holds AA. But you block AA. And as I wrote this I hear the part where he claims to have AA. That may be true in this exact hand, but it’s still a fold.
Either villain lied about his hand or he's a terrible player. Jamming in your 400 bb stack with aces on literally the worst board ever (when someone calls a 4bet he has QQ a lot of the time, you absolutely need to respect that)...is the worst play I've seen in ages. Preflop : I think flatting is the better option at this stack depth. With shorter stacks small suited aces are good 3bet semibluffs that can safely fold to a 4bet, but deep stacked they really want to see a flop and not get blown off their equity by a 4bet. I would never fold this hand in position, 400bb deep A2s is an awesome hand, has both board coverage and implied odds. Flop : Just bet. Villain 4bet pre, he has tons of pocket pairs that will call. Turn : Definitely bet again, ok with that River : I would actually check behind. TT got there if he somehow has that, and I'm not sure you can get 3 barrels of value off pocket pairs (since you have a lot of QQ in your range and assuming villain knows that, so he should fold a lot, of course this is assuming he's a decent player). You also block AA which is bad as you want him to have that, so facing slowplayed queens at that point is fairly likely so is him folding everything else. When checkraised all-in it is a good fold indeed, no sleep to lose over that, x/c x/c x/r is the most obvious slowplay ever, overwhelmingly this line is just pure nuts. But I think the best play is to think ahead and avoid being in this spot in the first place. I found that 2-barreling and checking behind river is very strong against passive villains that love to slowplay (it accustoms them to seeing bets and induces them to make the mistake to expect a 3rd bet which isn't coming).
You have to call that, no way villian is putting you on a 2 and can certainly be taking that line with AA or KK. Is he even 4 betting with QQ or 10's pre? I feel those might flat.
I think he over value the Guy across the Table.... folding with 3 pair again no pause able flush or four of kind... pull the trigger 2k is easy side cash 💸 ... but it is 2s so I feel him
If you call a 4 bet with a2 and you flop trips then make it to the river with no straight or flush draw completing and only 1 paint card getting 2 to 1 you call 100% of the time; what a buffoon.
I tell people what I had all the time, but never show. Almost exactly for the reason you stated. I dont mind telling the truth, but always want to leave a little seed of doubt in their mind that I may have been lying.
