i think that it's the company's responsibility to train their idols vocals more so they can at least be able to keep their voice healthy and not strain it when singing. not every idol is going to be a great vocalist, but they should be able to not struggle- the company should either give them easier parts or give them vocal lessons. however, it's not the idol's fault, but the company's
I agree with this. I do think that the company should be held accountable for this but unfortunately the most i see being said is hate directly toward the idol which is a shame
Fr and if you blame the company antis will always be like "stop blaming the company and hold your idols unaccountable" like HUH this IS a company issue if their idols aren't getting the training they need they shouldn't resort too looking for it on their own that's why they have a company that needs to back them up
Ummm how is it not the idols fault too? If you’re training to be an idol your main priority is to sing and have stage presence. The company SHOULD provide training, but at the same time it’s the bare minimum to know how to sing if that’s the job you wanna have.
I blame the company. Their choreography is so intense especially when they have to sing live. I Think they did great at Coachella and the crowd was into it. MAMAMOO is all Vocal and killed the stage every time, but their Choreography give them the freedom to move around & slay.
Agreed! Expecting them to sing flawlessly while doing intense choreo at the same time is impossible even on a dance heavy group they still give member's time to stand still and sing their part which is something I don't see for lsf they have to constantly dance
I just think that it would be better if companies let their idols sing live more that aren't edited or prerecorded bc ive seen people drag idols for singing and dancing live even tho they sound perfect this would also be better because kpop fans won't be focusing so much on encores ik there is bts recording of their songs but i don't think the general public watches those to it besides fans and casual listeners
This is kind of a reach, tbh. Most people don't expect idols to be 100% perfect. If you're generally good, you get leeway to not sound great every now and then. Take for example, NMIXX. They're known as good vocalists even though they also have flaws and, sometimes, voice cracks. They're not perfect. But they're great. Fans are seeing great groups get buried in favour of groups with little to no vocal ability, and watching the vocal standard drop to the point that people are questioning whether professional singers should be able to sing. And this takes us back to why idols aren't that well-respected in South Korea. Who's going to respect somebody who can't even functionally carry out their main job? And don't give me that 'their main job is to dance/model/influence' because then they can just do that. Why bother to make music? If you don't take your own job seriously, how is anyone else supposed to take you seriously?
I’m definitely talking about a very specific type of person in this video. I meant the people who genuinely just want to catch idols out and hate on them for whatever reason possible. Caring about vocals definitely isn’t a bad thing but the point of my video was that a few bad encore stages doesn’t mean that they CAN’T sing and that it’s not so black and white. Also the idea that kpop idols ‘aren’t respected’ in Korea is a bit of an over exaggeration. Ofc there are some people who dislike idols for whatever reason but they’re literally everywhere in Korea and they’ve globalised the country in a way that’s quite magnificent. Kpop and kdrama really put Korea on the map and it’s really impressive. Most Koreans I’ve met have a level of respect for the industry even if they’re not into the music themselves (sorry for my long reply 🙏)
@NatashaLkim I agree that some people seize on any flaw as a reason to insult and demean idols, but I think the video comes across as if that's the bulk of the criticism, when I think that best it's half/half. As for the respect, the respect you're seeing now was hard won by very talented idols in previous generations. TVXQ, 2ne1, SNSD, Wonder Girls, Brown Eyed Girls etc., these idols worked hard to be respected as artists by showing real skill. Not everyone was on the same level, but you had to have the basics at least. But that respect fades when the conversation turns to idols don't have to have basic vocal ability because singing isn't their real job. That's why it's well known that idols are generally at the bottom of the entertainment totem pole in SK. To directly quote Xiumin, “Singing is the most important. If you can't sing well, no matter how good you are at dancing, you won't look talented.” Anyway, thanks for clarifying your point about the type of people you were talking about. 🙏🏼
"They are waiting for the idols to fuck up and then chant about it in the comments with they're doritos dusted fingers." You slayed so much i fell out of my chair laughing
"should idols sing live" yes, they should. that's not a point of contention or a debatable opinion. that's literally the minimum requirement especially if you are in the business of selling music. of course nobody expects mariah carey levels of perfection, but you are expected to sing better than a drunk filipino uncle in a karaoke bar, and unfortunately for lesserafim, 3/5 can't sing at all. and that's sad, because there are tons of idols who can sing even while performing hard choreography but they can't reach the heights that lessera has achieved because they don't have the rich company to back them up. source music literally disbanded gfriend, a group that has been acclaimed for their powerful vocals and knife-cut difficult choreography, so they can prop up lessera. so yeah, idols especially lesserafim should be able to sing not only live, but at least better than gfriend to justify their existence in exchange for theirs.
Hard agree. And also I don’t think it’s wrong for us to expect more from these people who I genuinely don’t think would be able to pass an audition for a community choir. this also isn’t just a kpop opinion. I don’t think there is a single non kpop artist who I would still listen to the music of if they just couldn’t sing. Because like… is that not what we are all here for???? I dropped out of a music major because I wasn’t confident in my vocal abilities yet even my self deprecating brain is aware that I am literally miles above 3/5 members… (not a #humblebrag AT ALL. I am mediocre and THATS WHY IT IS CONCERNING)
While I agree Lesserafim should 100% improve, I find it funny you guys always bring up the imaginary woeful groups that "nobody pays attention to", but have these amazing vocals & talents. Why not instead of giving Lesserafim attention, you go and support these groups which you think are more "deserving" of fame and success? It makes zero sense to continue bitching and giving "constructive criticism" to Lesserafim when 1. they probably know they should improve & 2. have been told countless times at this point since coachella to improve. Do you seriously think your "criticism" and "advice" is THAT important to them that they need to be told they're "undeserving" of their success for a 4000th time...? WE ALL KNOW Lesserafim needs to practice and improve, THE GIRLS KNOW THAT AS WELL. Especially at this point. If you're still butthurt about Gfriend & blaming Lesserafim for their disbandment (which btw makes zero sense, gfriend was most likely disbanded due to MHJ since she took all the staff from source to help with ADORE), go support VIVIZ & the soloists that came from their disbandment. You have a personal vendetta against Lesserafim for the disbandment of your faves when they themselves had nothing to do with it. Do you genuinely think Sakura walked in and said "Yes, disband Gfriend to focus on us!" ? You've got to be a child to assume they had ANYTHING to do with it personally. Blame HYBE, Source, ADORE, WHOEVER else you want. Lesserafim had nothing to do with that. Lesserafim needs some work but they aren't your personal punching bag because you're still ass mad about your faves disbanding. Go support them instead of talking about shit you clearly don't know about.
Nobody has the entitlement to be successful because of their talent or abilities. People who can't sing well can pursue a music career because now there are tools to fix the imperfections. They have to train? Yes. But as she said in the video being an idol is more than just singing. And reducing the success of Lesserafim just because they are from a big company is naive. Fans for some reason like the group, and for the company it makes sense having them as they are very popular and sell well. It is a success whether they sing better or not. If a better singer doesn't have more recognition than lesserafim it isn't their fault, maybe the songs are bad, the promotions are forgettable, or it lacks marketability. It is an industry after all and talent doesn't mean nothing if it's not profitable
I can't take this comment seriously at all. It is reeking of jealousy and grudge of your faves being disbanded. This is the exact kind of mean comment this woman in the video is talking about. Click off to other side of internet instead of saying embarrassing things like "to justify their existence in exchange of Gfriend's". You're not being realistic at all. Your hyperfixation on talent is dumb. As someone who listens to and stans underrated and once a very popular group, I used to feel the same way when I was a teenager 5 years ago- "if my groups have talent and good music, success should be handed to them easily. Why are other groups getting famous when they're less talented?" Now that I think about it, having talent and good music is the bare minimum in show business. The real deciding factor is audience's taste, luck and marketing company. If audience likes something, they'll make it popular. If they don't, they won't. That's why sometimes even the most basic/nonsensical meme, song, movie etc gets popular. That's the case with idol groups too. One shouldn't feel unfairly treated for something that's not in control of idols or group themselves. So if your faves ain't popular or got disbanded if they weren't popular, it just means either company is not trying hard/too broke to do much, see no value in them and gave up on them or audience is not appreciating their art (tbh, all 3 of them can be true). So why are we blaming Lesserafim for other groups unsuccessful/less successful career with such intense negative emotions like "to justify their existence"? Stick to constructive criticism aka bad singing and address what could be the reason behind it or go away.
this is almost entirely a hybe problem. every month a new idol from them goes on another hiatus. ex: wonhee, beomgyu, hyein injuries because their choreography is so intense. hybe is entirely a dance company now. they barely train in vocals and the trainees only have to do training for a few months before they get released into the industry. compare it to yg, sm, and jyp who all have talented idols because they train for years. hybe's standards are low and its sad. its sad to see potential wasted because of improper training.
I don’t actually agree. The problem I got with these idols are not that they don’t sing “perfectly” but they can’t sing at all. I don’t send hate to the idols and don’t agree with people who send hate but l always get disappointed when l hear idols sing live. Because for the most part it’s unbearable. It’s like I can hear their vocal cords suffer through the most easy notes. I get angry at the companies who don’t train their idols and who put their idols in dangerous situations by making them sing songs that they clearly can not sing. But I’m hear for the music and vocals are a big part for me to enjoy it. I also think that all the blame is not just in the companies but on the idols too, couse we have seen many idols improve even if it’s just a little bit. And l agree with those who send critical criticism couse they are as frustrated as l am. K-pop fans just don’t know the difference between criticism and hate and they come after everyone who says that some of their favs can’t sing a note to save their life’s.
This is rich coming from a Zerose. I could easily say the same thing about ZB1. I still love the group but it's VERY clear a couple of members still can't sing live very well at all... I think you guys only care about vocals when it suits your narrative.
@@wavzone When did i ever say that zb1 vocals are good. And I’m not even a zerose. You know that there is not just one Hanbin in the whole K-pop industry right?
It's an interesting conversation! I have been following Kpop since 2008 (old hag here!), and its been quite fascinating to see how the live vocal conversation has changed over time. Live vocals used to be the norm for music shows; however, the choreo was WAY less challenging than they are now. Idol vocals back then were very similar to how it is now, there are usually one or two members who have stand out vocals, and the rest of the members are good dancers (with average vocals) and better rappers. However, I will say there are some idols who just straight up cant sing... but, are still great performers and dancers But I think we need to accept in Kpop that there will be certain groups who have more emphasis on performance rather than vocals and visa versa. There is usually a group out there for everyone! at the end of the day, the companies are the ones who choose to debut idols who lack in vocal talent, its not neccessarily the idols fault! They may need more training or are just naturally better in other areas. The hate towards them is SO DUMB and just causes unnecessary mental harm.
Agreed! Also no need to call yourself old lol I'm glad to see an older fan share some good sentiments on the matter as some older fans kinda have a "better than thou" attitude
If large companies can pay ads for streaming millions in views, paying people to smear is not far off. On the other hand, there are some who are just immature, straight down hateful, bored asf, too bias or plain trolling. At the end of the day, support the Kpop group you want, regardless of their flaws and hope for their success. ✌
As a kpop fan, it's frustrating to see how people pick and choose when criticism towards Kpop idols is valid. It seems like whenever an idol is praised for their actions, kpop fans are quick to give full credit to the idol. However, if criticism towards an idol's actions is negative, fans will always blame the company. In lesserafim's situation, I think that both the company and the members are responsible. It's the members' responsibility to invest their practice time into improving areas that they're weaker in (such as vocals) rather than focusing on their strengths (such as dance). On the other hand, it's their company's responsibility to provide them the resources to achieve that or at the very least ensure that they're practising the correct way so that the quality of their performances reflect their efforts during practice. Otherwise, the members should at the very least seek help from vocal coaches outside of HYBE as I've heard about seasoned idols even doing that. I feel like Kpop stans underestimate their power as consumers. If there's a demand for good vocal performances, companies will respond to that but only if it affects their profit. As long as fans continue to make songs by vocally challenged artists popular, companies will feel like they can get away with creating vocally weak groups and with prioritising aesthetics.
Well that isn't happening and lesserafim is doing good whether they lack talent or not. They aren't the problem and you can't force the market to do what you want. After all people are too hypocritical to assume they don't listen to music because of talent but rather for good music overall, and that includes beats, notes, production, choreography, etc. Not just vocals.
@@ignaciotorovillacura6342 I agree that the general intrigue towards kpop is aspects outside of singing such as the creative direction of albums and the personality of idols but at the end of the day, the main product that kpop idols are selling is their music, which their singing plays a major role in. No matter how popular you are, if you want people to take you seriously as an artist, you have to be able to do the bare minimum of your job properly (being able to sing stably whilst dancing) otherwise you'll be regarded as glorified back up dancers, influencers etc. And its both Lesserafim and the company's responsability to uphold to the industry's standard of what a performer should be or even become that standard. I feel like kpop groups, who quietly respond to criticism by working on their skills behind the scenes to produce performances, which have evidently improved, tend to be more respected than those whose company try to cover up their weaknesses or try to create to create excuses for their shortcomings.
I agree about people hating idol for having one voice crack or one bad singing day. But they are singers. They sell us songs to listen to. So not caring about a group because i dont like their vocals instead of criticizing and wanting the group to be better is the least we should do as fans. Lesserafim for example. I do like their music except their recent comeback (exception of smart) so i am not a fearnot, but i can still comment on their vocal ability because i can as a listener. Of course hating is not the right way to go but as listeners we can have negative opinions. And an idol should at least be able to sing their own songs live. That's the bare minimum for people who sell us music. I also dont care a lot about vocals but it is a turn off if they cannot carry their own lines properly with no improvements. As for Lesserafim they did pretty good in Coachella. Not bad but not like how some exaggerated it by saying that they slayyed vocals. They did improve and sang live so thats good ❤
Criticising and hating are different! It’s totally okay to criticise and want better especially if you’re being constructive and respectful~ I do see many people using poor vocal performances to drag them and overall hate on them and that’s not okay~ when I said “if you don’t like it just ignore it” that’s directed to people using it as a way to send hate towards the idols and genuinely wish for their failure. Sorry if my point wasn’t clear enough 🙏 thank you for the comment 💕
YOU ARE SUCH A GENIUS! Haters clearly don't understand the RU-vid algorithm. There's a reason why I avoided watching or even searching content from kpop groups i don't even like.
Imagine having to sing songs completely out of your vocal range because of your company, then having fans expect you to sing perfectly every time. If you sing songs out of your vocal range of course it will sound bad and your voice will get damaged, there is physically no way to make it sound good unless the company gives you vocal lessons. That’s what happened with lesserafim.
It’s crazy because I remember so many people hating on 4th gen saying that the idols can’t sing or dance and are talentless, now suddenly they miss 4th gen and saying that 5th gen is talentless and can’t sing or dance- LIKE WHAT
Some people are just plain haters no matter what, but others are disappointed depending on how huge the gap is between a group's usual sound vs raw while not expecting perfection.
your videos are soo logical, i seriously lovee them! btw, i would like to add my opinion, if it happens twice, thrice or max till 4-5 times, it's okay! it really is, cuz as you said, it's important that they're humans and you're not watching a freaking mv. BUT, here is the main part, if the idol is not able to perform good vocally almost all the time, then it IS a problem, cuz fans are literally paying to see you performing live, not just lip syncing or having voice cracks in each song/part of your performance/concert or just simply dancing, we don't care if the choreo is hard, it's not like groups like straykidz, bts, g idle, kiss of life, nct, seventeen, ateez and MANY more , don't have complex choreos, they do and still eat the stage up everytime with their LIVE vocals. I don't care about encore stages much but ( i don't wanna say the names ) even in simple performances? nah, you ain't entertaining me with THAT shit. also, it's not only the idols, it's the company too, cuz why tf can't they make the choreos simpler and also hire vocal trainers?!?! there is no shame is training yourself even after becoming an idol! It's both the company and the idols' fault in this, cuz okay, you don't get vocal training from your company, but even the idols who have so much of experience from the industry? that's what disappoints me the most. illit is a new kpop group so it's okay if they mess up SOMETIMES but they still need vocal training cuz then they'll be dragged even more, in the future. and i'd like to add my one last point, which is that whenever somebody (respectfully) criticizes any idol, toxic fans are ready to compare that person with the idol, asking them if they could do any better. bro wth is wrong with you, if they're allowed to do whatever they want on the stage then even the people are allowed to apply healthy criticism! they have trained for years, not the people. anyways, that was it, hope you read this and share your thoughts about it! love ya and keep making these commentaries.
I totally agree with you. Although vocals aren’t my main thing in kpop, nobody likes to hear a terrible note in their ears lol. I respect your opinion but dance choreo is a really big reason why I like kpop so I can’t agree on that. I do think there is a good middle ground though, some songs should have heavier dancing while others have light dancing that focuses more on the vocal performances. I just hate it when idols get hated on in general because I can’t even imagine the pressure they’re under, it’s 100% on the company to get good vocal training as that’s literally the point of having a company behind you. It’s more of an issue that 80% of kpop listeners are unable to criticise constructively and end up causing a big hate train that usually just makes the problem worse, a company could decide due to the hate to stop letting them sing live which stops their development making the problem worse and the cycle continues. Thank you for the comment, it was nice reading your input 💕💐
@@NatashaLkim i really understand what you're trying to convey and i actually agree!! about the choreo part, what i meant was that there are many jyp and hybe songs where the choreo is unnecessarily hard which is not needed for the respective songs. although, my main thing in kpop is also just not vocals, i am more of a rap and lyricism girly but dance and vocals play a HUGE role in kpop cuz not every song contains rap..so yeah, looking forward to your next commentary , i would love to see a commentary on babymonster/baemon though! ilyy and keep going!
I gotta respectfully disagree with this video. You're creating a stawman in order to prove your point. Are there kpop "fans" out there who are using bad singing as a convienient tool in order to be hateful and tear idols down? Sure, it's the internet. There's always gonna be pure haters out there. But I think most people are just legitimately frustrated by the fact that idols can't even seem to hit notes in easy songs these days. I always point to 2nd gen when people say "they're idols, they don't all have to be good vocalists." I agree! In 2nd gen there were plenty of idols who weren't going to win any singing competitions. But they could sing their 3 seconds of lines while dancing just fine. Even the weakest vocalists. There 👏 Is 👏 No 👏 Excuse. And to say "if you you wanna hear live vocals dont listen to kpop" is pretty unfair. It didn't use to be like this, it's 100% valid for people for be frustrated and upset about the state of the industry.
The overarching point of this video is if you don’t like something to the point where it makes you hateful don’t interact with it. I even said in the video that some people care about vocals and that’s okay. The whole point is not everyone gets that out of kpop. So to say an idol is a bad idol because they’re live vocals aren’t that good (especially if they just debuted) completely alienates a whole group of kpop fans who watch idols for the dancing, fashion, concepts and visuals. I’m not shitting on people for prioritising vocals, at least it wasn’t my intention. I wanted to give a different perspective from a passive listener. Encore stages used to be fun but now idols sing like they have a gun to their head because they kind of do. I also said if vocals are a big thing for you that you should listen to western music OR SM entertainment groups. Because as I said in the video SM entertainment prioritises vocals. I also said that some members will be worse at singing but better at dance or rapping because a group is a TEAM and that’s how it works. It’s not like there aren’t good vocalists in kpop, my point is go listen to them instead of harassing the groups you don’t think are good enough for you. It’s unproductive for everyone involved
@@NatashaLkim The Giselle video was the first video I watched and it got me hooked ... I was like holy someone gets it! ... I freaking love Aespa as well. I'm a nin2 bias.
13+ years where she wasn't trained properly to the point of damaging her voice Jpop idols ARE NOT trained the same way kpop idols are she had no proper training not even in her izone days
Seriously. Japanese industry is totally different from Kpop industry. There no standards set like Kpop idols. You don't have to sing or dance good at all cause audience doesn't care, only bothered about if they are entrained. Sakura didn't have any training until she was in IZONE and even then barely had any as other members were favored.
I have mixed feelings about this. I am into JPOP way more than I am into KPOP. So, I am saying this on a very limited knowledge of KPOP. In both they shouldn't have to sing perfectly but in KPOP they should at least sing decently. However, in Sakura's case I am not sure I can blame anyone. Not even the companies. I can't blame Sakura for taking the opportunity. I can't blame the KPOP company for putting on stage. She has name recognition, visuals, stage presence and aura about her. She wasn't one of the faces of jpop idols for no reason. At the same time, if she wants to be in KPOP, I think she needs to learn how to sing and dance least decently. I can't blame AKB48 because singing and dancing well was never the emphasis for that group or a lot of JIdols for that matter. From my understanding of kpop. There is a certain level of singing and dancing competency that is expected from an idol, that is not always there in JPOP. Especially in groups like AKB. There are certain groups and companies that you do need a certain level of skill. Like you can't be in LDH if you can't dance. In Kpop the emphasis seems to be more focused on performance and the performer. In Jpop, a lot of times the emphasis is actually on the audience and crowd. In Jpop you have to bring out a certain amount of energy to pump up the crowd and make sure they are having a good time that I don't always see in KPOP. In JPOP you often have to include the crowd in the performance and interact with them in a way that I usually don't see in KPOP. In JPOP you have to bring a certain amount of emotions to your performance. So, being a perfect or skilled performer can take a backseat. A JPOP concert can almost seem closer to a punk show than something like a K-Pop concert. Neither is better than the other. They are just different. Even if we are talking about the same category, they can be different. Like, stage presence in Jpop seems to be different than KPOP. Sorry, I went on a little rant at the end, but I feel I might need to explain why Iam giving different standards between KPOP and JPOP.
My issue with the hate on Sakura is that people have said sakura has never shown improvement in her idol abilities . Sakura was called a terrible dancer, you know what she does then? Sakura improves and debuts in a group with some of the hardest choreographies of that generation. I get her vocal abilities have decreased significantly but how much can a damaged voice heal anyways? It will take time for it to heal and we’ve seen Sakura sing well. So why do you have to hate in her. I don’t get it.
This video is so refreshing, I am a fairly new fan of K-pop and it always makes me so sad when I see how much hatred there is towards certain groups or idols. I am a fan of several groups and I am happy enough just to see the idols that I like succeed. Why would I want to spend time and energy bullying idols that I don't like? If I don't like something, I just move on.
Not is enough love about how freaking hilarious you are ❤️❤️❤️You are like a socially graceful version of rocket powered Mohawk - I don’t know why your personality reminds me of him - only u don’t lean into being politically/socially unhinged - he is hilarious this is defs a compliment ❤️❤️❤️ keep up the amazing work beautiful ❤️❤️❤️
I'm not listening to encores or performances on Spotify, so to me it doesn't matter. I have watched two HYBE groups perform live (TXT, NewJeans) and they did good. I think the whole "HYBE has bad vocalist" thing is overexaggerated. There are certain members in groups who cannot sing well but they serve their purpose in their own way. For example Sakura isn't the greatest singer, but she brings value into the group as she's one of the most if not the most popular Japanese idol in Kpop. Sure Source Music/HYBE could've picked another artist but they would lose out on Sakura's fanbase. At the end of the day these companies will do what get's them the most money. If the music is good and the main and lead vocalist are good then I don't care. (which in Le Sserafim's case Yunjin and Chaewon are talented singers; they just have bad moments sometimes).
I think vocal training would be so much better!! Especially hybe, they don’t give a crap about vocals, and we could see that from illit and le sserafim. Great commentary as always! ❤
you made good points, however in this video you sort of missed the entire point of the criticism and only brought up the entire “idols have to be perfect all the time,” argument that some people have. most of the criticism these groups faced are on not knowing the basics on singing. of course one or two encore stages don’t show if an idol could sing or not, however you made this video as if the criticism was for a entire different reason. if an idol doesn’t have the basics down, they should not be a singer.
You kinda ignored how I don’t even believe idols ARE singers. They’re idols. It’s a whole different thing. The point was that there’s strengths and weaknesses in each group member and they pull together to make an idol group. The reason (imo) that Lesseraphim had such a bad stage is because Garam, one of their main vocalists is no longer in the group. Each member brings something different and that’s why they’re not soloists. We will never agree with each other because I fundamentally do not view idols as singers. They sing, but they do much more than that. They’re models, dancers and sometimes even actors. Being an idol has been much more than singing since forever
It's all a part of the fanwars, people KNOW that the members of their favorite group can't all sing while dancing, or even sing at all, their is not a single group that doesn't have a weak member, but fans are always waiting for any idol other than their favs to make a human mistake, or to show a little bit of a weakness is some aspect of performing so they can go crazy and attack other groups with it being justified.
omg right after my binge there's a new upload thank you!! I think this is an interesting topic, I definitely agree that some people go too far and are just using vocals as a way to hate on groups, like I remember when aespa just debuted ppl were so mad at them for not singing live and called them bad singers when they did which is just laughable in hindsight. That being said, I do think there is something to be said about artists not being able to sing live? I also don't go to concerts and just follow kpop online, but it still bothers me a bit when I check out some of their actual live performances on radio shows or whatever and it's just not good. Also because I feel like a lot of these artists just aren't taught well by the companies who don't prioritize vocals, and I worry that could lead to them damaging their voices too.
the thing is, being able to sing is part of being an idol. if you can't sing, of course the fans are going to critisize you. however, people use that as an excuse to send death threats to the idols.
Hey, loving your content that I discovered yesterday :) I wanted to add some points to what you said: I have a friend that really like vocals, and goes to kpop concerts for that aspect. I prefer dance and I pretty much enjoy watching the choreography. We indeed stan different idols, and although we compare how good are idols at different things in our conversations, we never dragg down idols to put our favs on top, or worse go to post this opinions on the idol's post we thought was worse at something. Other thing is that encore stages used to be for fun, people has ruined it with their extreme criticism of everything. It used to be a goofy celebration, and now for some reason it has some importance... And the last thing, even SM forces AESPA to lipsync a lot. The singers hate it, cause they want to showcase to everyone how they can hit the notes on stage, but the company prefers to reserve that for special ocasaions like concerts. Cause guess what, singing to the limit can damage your vocal chords. Sorry for the long comment :)
thanks for the comment! Me and you are the same in that i care more about choreography and the overall stage set. I really hate how serious encore stages have gotten also it never used to be taken seriously but it's gotten so bad with 5th gen
this reminds me of the wendy situation like one mistake and boom ppl said she sucks at singing like in almost 10 years of being an idol, her FIRST fail and ppl deemed her as a bad vocalist like...
i was talking to my friends about this and we basically have the same thoughts so slay!! it reminded me of twices early days into their careers tho all kpop fandoms were ganging up on twice for a good 3 years all bcs their vocals were weak and they blew up and became the nations gg like being a fan at that time was so draining from the amount of hate they received😭
@@NatashaLkim i agree kpop has a bad horde mentality type thing where they just follow the crowd and hate whatever is hot at the moment and thats why i hate interacting with other kpop fans on twt cuz they can be toxic ://
I agree with pretty much everything you said here.. it always baffels me how people do not get this team aspect and how not every idol in the group has to be the best singer in the world or that a vocal mistake isn't the end of the world kpop could be so much more fun if a large of portion of the fanbase wouldn't be such hateful dipshits
encores are ESPECIALLY hard bc they dont have their in-ears. have you ever tried singing along to a song and not having any problems, then singing the karaoke version and screwing it all up? well its the same for the idols. im not sure how the audio is on stage, but sometimes it could also be that they dont even hear the base track well (correct me if im wrong). this plays a BIG part in their performance, along with the emotions of just having won an award for a comeback youve work so hard on, sometimes even the DEBUT like in illits case. also, during promotion season idols dont often get the best rest, so their vocals WILL get impacted by that. ive never been too fond of encores for these reasons. if you want to hear the song perfectly live, go to a concert. but its also in part the companys fault for not providing the best training for the idols. sm idols have no problem singing because the company has been known as a vocal powerhouse for a very long time. other companies might not give as much training and vocal preparation. i cant know for sure, but hybe seem to focus more on dancing, which is ALSO a big part of being a kpop idol. its all the companys decision, and it may or may not be the best but its them who have to be kept accountable for the most part.
I think they should sing well tho bc *I think having strong and good vocals is the most impressive and 9/10 idols can be strong dancers but 2-3/10 can be strong vocalists.* Also, with kpop raps, u don't even have to rlly be a rapper or be rlly good at it anyways so no comment, and most of the time it's just a short rap verse. It's rlly nothing compared to what rappers from the west does anyways. But what I'm trying to say is, I think idols who can't sing live do not deserve to rlly debut and have the popularity and streams as much as those who can actually SING SING, but not just sing a basic note and struggle with their lows and highs. Honestly imo if they are just good at dancing, they should just be a dance crew? or a model? But I think the most important thing is to be at least GOOD at singing, u don't have to be as great as Beyonce, but just be GOOD at it, and have all the techniques figured out and can belt properly and have a good vocal range and breath control. Cause the song is the main focus meaning that the vocals are also a crucial part of it. And dancing imo is just a side decoration. Imagine a dance crew getting praise over REAL singers who can dance too.
To be fair i like a lot of lesserafims songs and their dance abilities. But it is kind of ridiculous to not be upset when the product they (the company) are literally selling you is basically smoke and mirrors of autotune. I do fully blame the companies. It is directly their fault for debuting bad singers (whether that is just lack of talent or training). But also I think it is important for the consumers to be able to say hey that’s not what we paid for. Stating the obvious that a person isn’t a good singer isn’t bullying (but obviously all the toxic kpop stans take it too far) if they are simply just a bad singer. No one is forcing anyone to be an idol. This is also fully biased from a musician’s perspective. I think if people are less musically inclined and don’t mind lesserafim’s vocals then all the power to you. But I listen to music for the music…
the company focuses on choreography too much its crazy, ur like a multi billionaire company and chooses to not give them proper vocal training??? But hearing that some idols ask for less lines pisses me off too but the main thing that makes me angry is companies (ahem Hybe) r not investing their money into vocal training
I remember a few years ago (before my school banned me) I used to sing and dance for a few people in my year. I would sing and dance and that is hard. Even though it was just jumping, it is hard. Also, Kazuah and Eunchae weren't originally singers - both were trained in dancers. Kazuah did ballet and Eunchae trained in dance. The only members who originally were singers are Chaewon and Yunjin, the rest learnt.
Encore stages have became such a big deal seemingly out of nowhere 😭 and yeah I used to be a dancer too and there’s no way in HELL I would’ve been able to sing too. It’s truly impressive to me regardless. As I said, groups are a TEAM there’s always gonna be one or two members that are worse at singing but better at dancing but some people can’t really comprehend that for some reason
I notice when bgs have terrible encores the kpop community does. not. care. Zb1, tws, nct, etc. The tweets don't even get 10k likes. It boils down to gg stans being misogynists and looking for a popular girl group they don't like to mess up. It's so disgusting. The only exception is BTS members bc they're the kpop community's agreed on punching bag and has been since 2015. Ngl KOL recent encore wasn't sung well but no one cared bc they're an up n coming group who isn't that popular YET. If kol was super popular and made a messed up encore I'm sure they would have got some hate from other gg stans
Idols are public figures, they have the responsibility to be role models. They are TRAINED to be one. It is called KPOP - all about music and songs. Your logic is flawed just because you're looking at only one side. When fans PAY to see their idols, buy their merch, or vote for them to win and do an encore, it is their idols' responsibility to be at their best. Fans only know what they see on stage or tv. Singing badly, means they are bad singers, dancing badly, bad dancers, at least during that specific performance. Fans can't see what's happening behind the scenes, so whatever their idols show them is what they believe. It is up to the idols to show their best, not up to the fans to guess if their idols sang badly just because they had a bad day. Idols who won't or don't want to sing live at least some of the time, are de-frauding their fans and just doing a money grab. Any company can pay ghost singers, singing live is a way to prove that the idols you stan are the real thing, not pretty faces pretending they can sing.
Vocal mistakes is different from off tunes. There are a lot of K-POP idols that are really off tunes. That is what happens to Le Serrafim and ILLIT. They sing out of tune. It is not a vocal a mistake but a vocal incapability. Have you ever watch BABY MONSTER? From YG. They eat Live Vocal Performance. That what should idols should be. Have you ever heard of P-POP? It means Philippines Pop. They have a girl group called BINI. Consist of 8 members. BINI has 8 main vocalists 8 main rappers 8 main dancers 8 visuals That’s how you develop an idol. K-POP relies on music productions. Like high budget production but disregarding the real talent. That is why K-POP artists do not sing live.
I’m honestly not happy with Hype’s training or really the company that manages these groups since Hype is not really a standalone company? Is that the word, idk They have talented idols but they don’t train them to their full potential especially in the vocal department I really want to defend Lsf and Illit but it’s really hard when I know their vocals are…..let’s just say not the best( excluding Minju, Chaewon) I’m sure if they trained them they would be so much better and would improve so much
Imo i think that instead of HYBE focusing on the groups choreos they should also focus on the vocals so they can create a good balance. Bc JYP mostly focuses on dances but they also have a good balance with vocals and a group under JYP that can serve as an example is Nmixx.
Naaa, for many is too much , error after error, again and again, they suposed to sing live , saying you only listen for concept , if they can´t sing how they debuted? They are humans beings , yes, but also, they are suposed to be singers and dancers, come on, being mediocre is feding this the industry to continue in highlight just looks and younger and kids to come to stage and do playback, feding the mediocrity
Like now Lesserafim as an example…i just loved and enjoyed their coachella performance and then i see so many criticism and i just think for myself “is it me or what is going on“
I also really liked their coachella performance but I still keep seeing hate for it? Even tho I think they did amazingly…. I don’t think Lesserafim can do anything right these days
TRY TO REVIEW TO ''UNIS'' IN THEIR LIVE PERFORMANCE OR THEIR MINI ALBUM.. I PROMISE THEY WILL NOT DISAPPOINT YOU WHEN IT COMES TO VOCAL AND LIVE PERFORMANCE.. THEY ARE JUST A NEW KPOP GROUP THAT DEBUTED ON MARCH 27 AND THEYR AVERAGE AGE IS ONLY 16 YEARS OLD.. THEY JUST TRAINED FOR ALMOST TWO MONTHS BEFORE THEY DEBUT BUT THEY PERFORMED LIKE OTHER SENIOR GROUP.. HOPE YOU NOTICE!!!!
Natasha, I think that most of the hate on Le Sserafim is because of their recent controversy on the choreography of smart which is "inappropriate" for eunchae since she's a minor and their mv of smart they dance inside of a church and replace the cross sign into their group logo which to Christians is "disrespectful" and to add onto that yunjin was seen drinking a Starbucks drink in an iu concert and people did not like since half of the world is boycotting Starbucks for the genocide happening against isreal and Palestine and there are multiple articles talking about how yunjin Is supporting the genocide,supporting the Jews and all that and how she should be apologising like jake from enhypen when he drank a Starbucks drink on live and after he saw the comments to not drink Starbucks he immediately apologised since he genuinely didn't know so I think you should look into the Le Sserafim controversy while they were promoting their new release easy and their b-side,Smart!🙂
This is a stupid statement because singing is not the only thing a company looks for. Rapping comes in to play. Dancing comes in to play. Did you not watch the video?
