Should You Palm Heel or Punch in a Real Fight? 

Soft to Hard, Hard to Soft. Punch to the body, palm to the head.

Just attack with what ever you have knuckles, plam, hammer fist, kicks, knief, brass knuckles, guns, computer anything to destroy your opponent

I was taught in Okinawa way back in 1974 that fists are for soft targets and open hands are for hard targets. Very informative lesson!

Question: which is better palm or punch? Sensei ando: grow up kids!! Train both and even more!!😉😆

I train everyday to block espresso machines! Next belt defense are Keurig Coffee Makers

Your oppinion is so wise. Its really nice to hear 😊

If you are untrained at punching, you mostly likely lack the hand speed and mechanics to generate impact power -- so you won't break your hand when striking the target's skull, but at worst displace/stove/bruise one or two of your knuckles. If you are trained at punching, you do run the risk of breaking your hand on the target's skull if you get too careless and throw full power punches that the target blocks with their skull (often intentionally). Even when your hand doesn't break, you can easily stove your wrist on any target that has zero give. But the most common hand injuries when punching are: -- The second knuckle (the one at the base of your middle finger) slips upward toward your first knuckle. This makes it instantly very sore and it becomes hard to punch with that hand because your reflex upon contact is to withdraw your hand. The hand becomes stiff and harder to use very quickly, and you lose grip strength as well. Overall it is a minor injury, healing in about a week. -- The third knuckle bruises and stoves easily relative to the other knuckles. This is usually a secondary injury that comes with the displaced second knuckle -- you make contact on the wrong side of the second knuckle (the bottom instead of the top; hand angle is critical when punching), the second knuckle slips out of place under the stress, and your third knuckle is what actually connects hard with your target. When you hit bone, this badly bruises the third knuckle right away. The bruising tends to heal in about a week, as your hand slowly becomes less stiff and sore. If you are untrained at palm striking, you can STILL get really badly injured. A dislocated finger is not the main concern, although it is possible. A palm strike MUST strike with the base of your palm, as your hand is ratcheted back. If you instead (by accident) make contact with the target more toward your fingers, you can easily stove or even break your wrist. You will be in a metric ton of pain, as this is a nerve catch. Your hand will be 100% useless, and you can't fight with such a fragile forward target hanging out there in front of you. With half your guard and striking arsenal missing, with NO ability left to grapple or wrestle, you will be dead meat in the fight once this happens. You are also open to someone grabbing and snapping your fingers when you fight with open hands. This might be broken bones, dislocated bones, or snapped ligaments. Keep your hands closed until you need them open, when fighting. Even if you intend to fight using palm strikes, make fists until just before contact with the target so that your fingers cannot be grabbed. ... My point is that if you don't know exactly what you are doing, punch rather than use palm strikes. The injuries are far more minor, and you can continue to fight with a sore hand that has a good wrist and working fingers. If you do know what you are doing, punching is still safer than palm striking due to the severity of risk. ... Some aside points: Punches have greater reach than palm strikes, but not a greater range. Punches have both a longer maximum effective range and a longer MINIMUM effective range. When you are standing closer to a target, there is a range where you are too close to straight punch effectively but can still execute a straight-line palm strike. Combining palm strikes with hooked punches when at close range gives you a pretty wide striking arsenal, relative to someone only throwing punches. Never strike the body with a palm strike. It's much easier when striking a large flat surface to break your wrist, and the body is too large and soft for the blunt palm strike to do damage. It will generally not even stun the target. They will almost fully ignore it. The best alternative to a punch to the body, especially when you will lack power or proper range in the strike, is two curved fingers. Think of it as making a hook -- you don't want any joint in those two fingers to be straight, as you might stove or break your fingers if you don't have all joints there bent. This hook is used to stab the body. You can uppercut to the solar plexus, and done properly this can drop a grown man without the need to hit him hard there. You can strike just under the lose ribs and "hook" them. You strike at the neck, which can distract the target because of your fingernails (because they will instantly worry they have been stabbed by something sharp -- they will need to check. Their hand will generally snap up to their neck to check for blood, and their eyes will go to their own fingers for a split second.) This hooked hand is a safe way to gouge the eyes, if it's a life or death struggle and you need that in the toolbox. It's worth practicing the hand shape so that you don't harm your own fingers... it's not something you just break out and use.

Sensei Ando, enjoyed watching your recent video: Should Punch or Palm Heal In A Fight. Another good video and you gave us things to think about IF one is engaged in a fight. But the MOST important advice you gave is AVOID A FIGHT. Too many people easily "fly off the handle" and use their fists instead of their brains. For example, at a bar drinking and fighting with sometimes deadly consequences ! Thanks again for your latest video. Please keep producing more of your videos.

i'd say: punch the body, palm the head. though i prefer tiger claws over palms, part of why i wanna learn animal kung fu

Thanks for the great information and analysis. Much appreciated.

Well said Ando. Awesome video with wisdom thanks for sharing your experience. 👍

Good points as always. Great videos Sir.

You body is like a Swiss Army knife "multi-purpose" great tips Ando you do what you must to defend yourself and adapt your body according to the situation

Finally a good video about this subject Thank you very much

He did the funny salute and instantly changed it to a fist

Palm for defense, fist for offense.

This vid was teh awesome! I would tend to use the palm heel as it reduces injury to myself and my attacker, but as you clearly state, it's all situational. And your best advice is, of course, do the best one can to avoid the confrontation. I'll be watching more of your videos sensei.

Bas Rutten says open hand strikes are better. Great video

Great video! Thanks Sensei

Another helpful video thanks senses ando :D

It is always a pleasure to watch these great videos of you, sensei Ando! As always nice, deep analyse. I just want to mention that the range of the different forms of the hand differs for the different strikes- it is longer for the hooks with the palm. If you want to connect with such a swinging motion with your knuckles it is good to try the casting punch... Never mind, just thinking about the theme. Nice video one more time!

Thank you Sensei! You are really helpful and I'm not saying this to get your attention (but I do want you to see this) I like you videos and they helped me a lot, especially with bullies! Keep up the good work! +1 subscriber.

Whoopee another great video

Thank you. Posting to my dojo page with your permission.

Awesome advice as always!

Palm and fist have the same reach except when used in a directly ahead straight line as in a pushup (press-up for the Brits)

I really enjoyed the video my brother. Thank you. Bpth have their places.

Great points:)

Cool video! I would use both! My knuckles are used to hard impact but I will use it to strike soft tissue and use my palm heals to defend and stun. As as for my fingers Im gonna use those to use the Expresso machine!

Excelente recomendación

As always, you have not only given me new perspective. But also done so in a fun and entertaining manner. I do wish that you were in North Carolina. The commute to train with you is just a bit too much for me. Thanks again

Nice video Sir.... Very informative and practical. I have often seen people having a general perception that palm heeling is an injury proof way of fighting. It is not, if the fingers are not tucked close enough and the posture of the hand is not firm enough, there is a healthy chance, one can break his fingers trying to palm heel in a fight.

I love your videos

Thanks Ando. In Liin Waan we always trained palm for the shock power. At the right degree and keeping the elbow in n compact the palm fits the jawline perfectly. Tricep pushups and correct alignment was important. I was always concerned about exposure of wrist though on the way in, from say a flurry collision given a lot of ppl just throw crazy shots out of adrenaline. However hearing its okay to punch also makes a lot of sense, its always hard when you're trained a certain way to relinquish

Interestly, when I trained, I figured out an interesting way to bypass the protection provided by the chest gear. It'd extend with my hand not fully closed, and when I made contact, I did not immediately close my hand, but used the opponent to push my hand closed, it removed the benefit of the armor from displacing force across its surface in a broader spread.

Okay I like that and I will look into that

Good video. I give my support to both of them. The palm is used to push all the rocks from the way, while the punch is used to break all the walls in the front...

It’s also easy to bruise your veins on your wrist when palm striking. And that’s the worst bruis. Better than broken finger though

Good video

You can use a palm heal if you want to hit someone in the nose it would be pretty effective in my opinion sometimes

hello sensei, I really appreciate that you reply to almost every comment here so thanks a lot for your dedication! I have a question that I couldn't find the answer to on Google. In case I am training to increase bone density by striking hard surfaces as boards, bricks, etc. I heard that punching has a heavy toll on your joints once you get older causing stiffness, pain and decrease in mobility of your knuckles. How true is that? And are palm strikes any different? What about elbows? I want my strikes to be harder but I also need my hand joints for as long as i live, especially that I am a medical student planning to study surgery. Thanks for your time :)

I think this is really helpful but I like training my knuckles to have strong skin because my knuckles are rock solid and it will help if you are in a real fight

I’d say to use palms to the head and especially the face area to maybe stun/shock the opponent and use punches for the body or if you have a clear shot, to the head

If you have arthritis (like me) a punch may not be a viable option except in a dire circumstance.

I think the open hand has advantage in the possibility of grabbing/catching for a take down, or of blocking or pushing. You can start as a strike but switch to a block or grab. This was not considered as the comparison was strictly about strikes. I agree with the conclusion as far as striking is concerned, but like the earlier point about open hand blocks being more likely to succeed. Grabbing was not considered, and a grappler would prefer to grab for control.

it's kind of funny that you bring this up and it reminds of a visit I had to an old club I used to train at. First let me say that your conclusion is spot on. There is a time for each the hard part is knowing when.. oh and you for got the back of the wrist,, Remy Presas preference. But back to my old stomping ground. The club was sold to one of the senior students and the head instructor retired and moved to a larger city ( he had had a logging accident and had to change vocations and thus had to move) The new instructor had a guest come and do a seminar ( I missed it because I too had had to move for work) and had taught the ladies that growing out their fingernails would allow them to use them as additional weapons. This said I didn't know of this till during kata I noticed that the one lady was using a partially closed fist with the knuckles turned upward a position that if she were to make contact with something would surely break her wrist. When I tried to correct her she told me she couldn't close her fist because of her nails and of the guest instructors comments. I wish at that time I had been more experienced as I would have told her to change the type of fist she used in training as muscle memory out weighs kata tradition. I would have told her to change to a fore knuckle strike ( hiraken) instead of misshapen fist she was using specially since telling her to just cut her nails would have been futile . as you said the right tool for the job .

The Isshinryu fist, vertical fist with the thumb on top, is supposedly very good for protecting your hand. I can't say for sure, as I've never been in an actual fight with it. It does work well on the bag, though.

I have a taekwondo tournament on Saturday, I'm doing a purple belt form and I'm a orange belt, last tournament I was a white belt and the other 3 people were orange and higher and I got 1st in forms and 2nd in one steps! I hope to do just as good as last time. thank you for all your help. I'll let you know how I do. Do you have any point sparring tips?

Palms all day! Except for bodyshots

Nice.

I love your content! Makes my channel look like a beginner. But better! 🇮🇹#mexicanmartialarts

Another factor is the amount and quality of hand conditioning that you have. I’ve been conditioning my fists for twenty years now, and I would have no problem using them. I agree that there is a place and time for both palm heels and knuckles. Pretty much the only way you can learn when to use each is to get your rear end beat a lot of times. That’s how I learned.

If your knuckles are conditioned then which is better🤔🤔🤔

They all have a place in self defense

Could you please make a video about defense positions? For me as a Taekwondoin, I personally stand in the classic philly shell from boxing, which works pretty well for me. But maybe you know something better 😉

Love this video. Train EVRYTHING!!! [true old school] True martial artist! And to the naysayers. Check out sensei’s hands. He trains them correctly yet, deadly

so i tried the palm strike in a cement pillar for practice(not in full force, more like tapping with my palm) and i noticed that i cant make my palm stick out more than my fingers and if i forced my palm to stick out more then my wrist and my tendons in my fingers are getting painful... but using punches in hitting the pillar( again not with full force, more like tapping with my fist) im more comfortable doing it... so i guess in my case, open palm is for defense and punch is for striking...

To me, I think punches are worse for injuries because of how weak hand and wrist muscles can be. If you're not conditioned enough you'll just break your wrist on the first hit to bone and that's it for you. With a palm on the other hand, sure your fingers can get snagged but you can keep fighting with that, and there are ways to avoid it more so than there are with punches. Lastly, punches are like hitting a porccupine, you might mess that porccupine up but you won't be feeling too great either, however that's not really a problem with the palm because they can land anywhere without causing much pain

Just use your legs... ...to run away from the fight.

I train both! Why restrict myself to one type of strike when I could just do both?

I AVOID the fight whenever possible, but if "no other option", I think that punch-hand-wrist fractures are much more likely to prevent further use of that hand if the fight MUST continue. So "for me", I stopped punching years ago. We have other effective self-defense tactics that seem to be better choices, including no apparent risk of breakage to my aluminum toed walking shoes (with the tensile strength of steel) during a fight, LOL! I pity an aggressor on the receiving end of those kicks!

Finally, common sense words. Use everything at your disposal.

I agreed with fingers getting caught by clothings. I practiced with kubotan, liquid flaire pen, aaa maglite with rubber bands tying around barrel on towels. The longer the 'kubotan', the easier it caught. The faster the 'kubotan' moved, the more difficult you withdraw. So I use double decker palms (one on top of another) to hit someone standing right in front of me. Then, do the rest. Single palm is reserved for face and neck. Also finger nails and etc. Sorry, I only meant to share what I knew. And not teaching.

I've palmheeled a face and while the hand just passes the head- open of course- you claw to pull back and grab the head as you withdraw your hand and pull that head on down to your rising knee-- attacker OUT.. :)

I would also say that palm heels are more for tactical fighters on the defense spectrum. Ideally I'd say to use them when you see openings to move yourself, your opponent, or both off of the center line of fire. Example, if you're working your defense as someone us coming in and you have your foot on the outside to be able you weave and escape whiles palming their shoulder or hip to make them throw their shoulder or over step their estimated blow. Because it in more of a jabbing push you can thrust into certain attack made with this technique and move them. Second example is for creating quick clinch opportunities by maybe coming form a squatting position and up palming their chin into a neck clinch, and get a quick knee in. Or you can again give them the blunt force from the palm and clinch that body part and redirect their center balance with a quick grab and release. People that throw kicks can be easy maneuvered with palm strikes too. Kind you I DO NOT advise creating your entire arsenal around palming because fist do hurt worst even though palming can save you some pain and still raddle the brain. If you know weak points too using rather more chopping palms can have weaken an opponents strength for a moment, certain tendons and "presser point areas give this effect. But it's up to you to create your own martial ("ART")

OOuch. Knuckles in the temple definitely hurt more. Oh. You said don't try. Too late

Open palm strike to the face, punch to the torso.

I used to think the same thing but than I saw these bare knuckle fighting boxing and they seem to do fine ? What do u think is going on .. pls , thx

What were we talking about?

A high school teacher taught my class that a hard closed fist punch to the solar plexus does the job 90% of the time

Good day ando sensei I hope you can read this! I want to practice martial arts long before but here in our province i cant find a training center (i dont know what is called). Can you teach me some excercises or training I can do at home? Im a girl, just for your information and we also have punching bag in my house. sorry if my english is bad

Sensei ando, I can't break a headlock in real life scenario 😣 and I have practiced many times to break the head lock ,but it's not working

penetration wont end fight, opponent will only notice his blood from the cut after the fight, blunt force to the head and brain ends the fight knocks him out.

Great video! So, do you have any tips for conditioning? I’ve seen people have differing opinions on makiwaras and I’ve seen videos where they suggest punching trees (granted, it was more of a push punch, not a fast jab, but still). I would just like to know how to toughen up my fists since we are only allowed to strike closed fists on the bag with gloves. Without them, we are only allowed palm strikes. Thank you, sensei!

I see an open hand coming at me I am bending back a finger if you can snap a finger it is a good thing. If you miss when when you throw a fist and hit something behind the person it is bad for the hand.

Palm, punch, spear, push etc is the same energy it's the difference between where you want the energy to release at and your intent, which is why all mastery arts wether it's taekwondo, karate, all arts except BJJ looks like taichi at it's mastery .

"The best fist is the one that fits." "Now, let's talk about penetration..." 😏

😇 I'm 🙏 For 🕯️ our ✨ Soul's 🙌

Sorry

The problem with either the fist or the palm heel is if you get it wrong you can injury your fingers. I took some KFM lessons and they advised using elbows and hammerfists instead.

How can someone dislike this video😕

Where is your dojo located we could meet up and train together I show you some stuff

Hello Ando, I had the same question some month ago. Your hands and feet aren't designed to fight. In the videos and movies they show you, that a punch always hits the point where it is targeted. Your opponent is constantly moving in a fight, so it is very dangerous for the finger bones when the fighter thinks to use his boxing style. Palm attacks are also dangerous because the opponent can grasp your fingers or your palm and this situation is very painful, watch Aikido clips. A better way is to use your knees and elbows, but in a fight you have no good ways. You will defend yourself as you will defend yourself. It's your true fighting style. Train what you want to train and always expect the unexpected.

You can punch and also a palm heel it all depends on the situation that you are in. You just have to use your common sense and no which one to deliver has your self-defense

Is self defense something that you can study ? And how ?

Do not concern yourself with hitting with the bigger two knuckles. It is about surface-area in punching. If you hit with the smaller three, so be it. Also, just hit. If you are punching with lots of force, you will break knuckles no matter which ones are used. Traditional Asian arts say the method they teach is best but the bare-knuckle fighters say, with much experience, they are teaching inaccuracies.

Wow.

Palms to the head, punches to the body... in general...

Gonna default to palms to the head and punches to the body

Ando I throw my hooks palm down at all ranges and my hand is fine

Palm

Excellent video as always... A "micro-rant": where did the ten self defense lessons go? :)

🙏

In a real fight just cover distance and smakem in the nose to close thier eyes. If you dont follow up they will have 2 black eyes for at least 2 months.

Some days palm heel, some days a hammer- some days MY CANE-- and every day- an awareness showing your way OUT just in case.

أحلى كبتن🙆‍♂️

Not talking about the elbow or even the shoulder

🤦‍♂️

From observation & experience I've come to the conclusion that some folk can punch well with a fist & some can't. Few who can punch well can keep their hand from breaking when striking a hard target very forcefully (without the aid of wraps/gloves, that is); for this reason, good punchers ought to use discretion with hard targets (avoid them, or use much less than full force on them) - unless gifted*. There are ways to use one's palm very forcefully & still protect one's fingers & thumb fairly well - even from clothing; & there are steps one can take to protect one's fingers when striking with the fingertips. Grabbing clothes always puts fingers at risk (most folk that are good at grabbing have strong fingers; grabbing clothes with weak fingers is begging for finger injuries) - & grabbing clothes with a twist will tie up both foe & one's own self, so this is also a consideration. But the main topic here is Fist vs Palm. If one wants to strike very hard on hard - or soft - targets & have the best odds for saving one's hands from injury, then IMO palms are best (usually only risking a bruise rather than a break). For most folk, knuckles are often fine for delivering 'Love Taps' onto some hard targets - plus good for grinding & raking. * = Some folk are gifted with great punching abilities. Some can knock out cattle by knuckle-punching them hard on their foreheads - between their horns even (with the respective punching fist remaining healthy). Of course, there are no absolute guarantees against hand injury no matter what hand position & strike is used.

Another self-defense teacher on RU-vid advises not to use punches at all in self-defense. He recommends three primary hand blows: sword/knife hand, palm heel, and hammer fist. Low kicks are good. He feels these few basic tools are sufficient for essential self-defense. After all, you're not in a tournament. In self-defense, your goal is survival, defend against the attack and get the heck out of there.