Six Times This Christian Was WRONG About This Bible Scholar (feat Dr Bart Ehrman) 

Thank you so much Paul, you and the good Dr make a formidable pairing. I almost feel sorry for Frank, well, I would if he wasn't blatantly dishonest and if he didn't go to colleges and mislead/indoctrinate kids. You guys are awesome. 😊 Greetings from New Zealand

*Why is this never brought up* Matthew 17 17 Six days later, Jesus took Peter, James, and John, the brother of James, up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 While they watched, Jesus’ appearance was changed; his face became bright like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 Then Moses and Elijah[a] appeared to them, talking with Jesus. *Wouldn't an all knowing all powerful god know Moses is a myth* Moses has been proven to be a myth by mountains of evidence that shows the Israelites were just another Canaanite tribe that rose to the top after the bronze age collapse. That was the 10th century *BCE* Not a shred of evidence has ever been found support Exodus or Moses or Joshua.

@@fordprefect5304 It is all most likely to be made up myth man. For all we know even the writers of the original scrolls and scriptures knew it was made up and over centuries people just started believing it. Maybe they did think it was real and sincerely thought it was true. Either way we know humans are capable of being convinced of things that aren't true, and have been known to die for those beliefs, especially when they make grand promises and threats.

​@@fordprefect5304ya, somehow Jesus didn't get that redaction scholarship from the 21st century that you think is credible! LOL 😂😂😂

​@@TheTruthKiwiyou're as blind as Paul is with or without his glasses!

Worse is that even when the audience does here the truth they just say Erhman is lying.

That sums up religion in a nutshell. That’s also why they want to control education. Must be in a vacuum to believe temper nonsense.

In a perfect world (such as one created by some sort of all-powerful god, perhaps), Turek could be sued for slander or taken into custody for being clearly mentally disturbed, because those are the two options here; either Frank is absolutely out of his freaking mind and legitimately thinks his completely back-asswards take on reality makes sense to him, which would make him padded-walls crazy, or he knows he's full of shit and belongs in jail for defrauding all those victims of his of their time and money. God? You seeing this shit? Hello? Anyone there? Guess that settles that question, huh?

Turek's mendacity rises to the pathological.

“ and where does evil come from , Christopher”? Religion! I’ll never forget the Hitchslap Turek got that day.

Of the apologists out there, J Warner Wallace is my most disliked, but Frank is up there.

Turek cant be in the same room as honesty

Grifting 101

An honest apologist? I don’t think so. 😂

Turek has no choice but to be an apologist. He lacks the integrity needed to sell used cars.

Until Paulogia has the guts to take on Metatron’s undisputed proof Christ lived (he won’t he doesn’t have the guts) he’s a coward

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv What's Metatron's "proof"?

​@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv huh? Who is saying Christ didn't live?

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv Why is Metatron not giving this undisputed proof Jesus existed? He would be headline news around the world if he did. There is no evidence Jesus existed outside the bible, actual proof would be be world changing.

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv I thought Paulogia assumed that some preacher called Jesus lived, not that there is proof that he was resurrected after being crucified.

That's one of my favorite things about Paul. He's done it several times, not just with Bart. It's crazy Cuz 90%of the time, the scholars haven't even heard of the apologist misquoting him

Until Paulogia has the guts to take on Metatron’s undisputed proof Christ lived (he won’t he doesn’t have the guts) he’s a coward

@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv "unless this RU-vidr looks at this one specific claim he's a coward" dude RU-vid is a big place.

@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv you sound like a bot, you've commented the same thing 3 times across 2 videos

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv Until Metatron has the guts to take on my undisputed proof that Christ was secretly Mary in drag, he's a coward!

Maybe he is just sleeping.

But just think of all the money you could make if you could convince people your parrot rose from the dead and wanted them to give you 10% of their income

@@grepora Pining?

Bet he had lovely plumage 🤣🤣🤣 Cheers 🍺

@@christasimon9716 pining in the fjords

That's every video!

Until Paulogia has the guts to take on Metatron’s undisputed proof Christ lived (he won’t he doesn’t have the guts) he’s a coward

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv The fundamental question is not whether Christ lived, it's whether he rose from the dead and ascended. And I'm sorry if Paulogia hurt your feelings.

@@caseyspaos448 think of all the things we haven’t seen him laugh at yet!!

@@ron88303 guys please can we keep this a happy thread about the ray of sunshine that is dr Bart Ehrman 🙏

Yeah. It's kinda his shtick.

He's a liar. He makes money lying to people, because they need to feel special.

@@pavld335they literally can’t handle the truth

The only thing atheists want, regardless of how we get here, is the truth. That's it. For me, it started with TV commercials. As a kid I kept asking why the fifth dentist _didn't_ recommend the toothpaste, and why every toothpaste was recommended by four out of five dentists. It put me on a life-long track to see through bullshit no matter where I see it, even if I generally agree with the source on other topics. It's not even about religion, at the core of it; I hear garbage like Frank Turek or Ben Stein lie right in front of me, I _don't_ side with the obvious liars. It's really as simple as that, I think. Atheists wind up atheists because theists **_always lie._** About everything. Including their cults. Maybe especially about their cults.

Turek practices that dogmatic tribalism.

​@@EdwardHowton FYI: it was Trident Gum not toothpaste. I think the answer was because the gum company calculated that they only needed to pay off (aka bribe) 4 dentists and have one as a contrarian so they wouldn't get sued for false representation by some dentist. Consumers would think if a majority of dentists approve it then it must be good enough. Basically, it is a straw poll that has no real meaning or significance. As for Christians, I think most of them are victims of cult mind control by various self-righteous blood thirsty (and money grubbing) cannibals (who annually eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood and convince the innocent to do it too) who have tortured (physically and emotionally) and killed billions of people over two millennia. Once someone is convinced they are hopeless sinners with original sin and Jesus is their only savior they will do anything they are told to do just to get in Jesus' good graces because they don't want to burn in Hell for ever. Then the Christian dogma tells them they need to isolate them selves from non-believers because the non-believers are really servants of Satan (ignoring the fact that the Satan actually serves God and does His dirty work). They end up in an endless echo chamber of deception, lies. and abuse. True Hell is being a Christian (or one of their victims) thinking that they are doing "good" in Jesus name.

Well said.

@@greporaThat's the thing, toothpaste (or whatever the product in question is because it's ALWAYS four out of five whatever recommend whatever) companies don't have to bribe anyone. They just *_say_* four out of five. Get a quote from one guy willing to shill out and make up a number that lets them avoid being sued. "Fifth" dentist goes "hey wait I didn't agree to this" and their lawyers can say "oh well you're the fifth one the other four are fine also whatever you do don't ask anyone else that's a total waste of time". Buy off one guy, say it's most guys, dismiss anyone who objects as the "rest". Should sound familiar, too. Back in leaded gasoline days, Robert Kehoe went around saying lead was perfectly safe to anyone who would listen, and would gesture at "most scientists agree" and dismiss anyone who said lead was dangerous as "fringe". Creationists? "Science proves god actually! Teach the controversy!" Flat Earthers and all other conspiracy nutjobs? "Do your own research!" It all boils down to "four out of five facts supports our position". Any contrary evidence can be summarily dismissed and be said to be outnumbered. Fraud in a legally-protected loophole. Critical thinking skills matter, and I got mine from freaking TV commercials' bullshit.

Just have Erhman in disguise and then wait until after all the lies Turek makes especially about misquoting him.

I've seen it happen, but Turek ignores the question and goes into some weird non sequitur.

Even if this happened, he could just deny the person calling him out. Even if it was Ehrman himself there, like in the first clip, Frank could just accuse him of "changing his tune"

In a conversation with paulogia, paul literally called him on that and frank's response was 'well maybe ehrman changed his answer later'. The guy *cannot* even admit he could have got it wrong.

​@@GameTimeWhyThat'd be hilarious. He'd have on the thick rimmed fake glasses with the fake nose & mustache attached. Maybe even an obvious fake accent. 😄

😮

Seem like you survived the trauma unharmed, well done 😀 Cheers 🍺

Oh no way! I'm at TST now (St Mike's).

The late-dating of the Gospels is WRONG. That Matthew the tax-collector became the most unlikeliest of the 12 Apostles partly because he was the most literate and was present to take notes on what Jesus said and did, is a thesis that makes eminent sense.

@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh since I originallly post this comment I've had a stroke and have aphasia so my words are confusing. But I know that what is wrong to believe that first, no one was making notes while Jesus and the his followers were traveling and preaching and teaching. How do I know? Because that not how information was dissimentated - it was over the well, the fire, in the community baths.... And for your thesis - where is the information that you used to "date" Matthew?

One such example is when William Lane Craig literally argued cosmological science with Sir Roger Penrose. Theologians and apologists seem to believe they’re experts on everything, including the work of actual scientists and historians when those same scientists or historians attempt to correct them.

Yep

Same here. Mother-in-law says exactly the same thing and also claims she can still smell her husband in the house. I have suggested she remove all his old coats, boots, hats from the hallway but that's a step too far, apparently!

It's way easier to believe early Christians misinterpreted these events as divine. No science, no motivation to use critical thinking, highly superstitious, no tested & peer-reviewed hypotheses, no easy fact-checking, little time to stop and ponder anything when the next meal was the highest priority ...shall we go on?

Oh, and I forgot the bit where Turek will delay things by constantly trying to revise trivial stuff like what the 'debate' is about and the precise wording on his personal engraved invitation. Like I said, Trumpian delay tactics.

Yeah make it a written debate.

I was about to leave a comment about this, when Bart said he and Frank should have a debate, I got excited about the prospect of it actually happening! I would pay good money to see an Ehrman vs. Turek debate. I don't think Bart has done a public debate in a while, I miss them. It was watching Ehrman's debates on RU-vid years ago, that helped me out a lot in my own journey, of deconversion from religion.

Live debates are basically useless. Frank could still spew more nonsense in 10 minutes than Bart could correct in an hour.

that's true. It is something that bothers me about live debates. But the spectacle, the feeling of it happening in person, in front of a live audience, is exciting. I feel that something is lost when it's only done online. Not the same vibe.@@jursamaj

The problem is there is no objective evidence that Jesus existed (I am agnostic about this question) and none that he was resurrected. The evidence that does exists would not be admitted into a court of law because it is all hearsay -- third of fourth hand or in Paul's case imagined. It is like believing in a religion based on Homeric epics, or Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter. You are better served by pursuing pragmatic spiritual practices like positivity (not toxic positivity), mindfulness, meditation, yoga, etc. that facilitate a healthy body and mind. Identify and evaluate your values to realistically and objectively define how you act toward yourself and others (somewhere between selfishness to altruism with situational ethics and respect for the rights of others and how you handle people who do not respect your rights). Define your boundaries (what is unacceptable to you), your standards (what is acceptable to you), and what your goals in life will be. Learn to practice self discipline. All of this is much better than pursuing an imaginary God and being told what is appropriate behavior by ancient fiction writers or by those who assume authority over your beliefs.

Frank's Self-awareness: 🕳️

Until Paulogia has the guts to take on Metatron’s undisputed proof Christ lived (he won’t he doesn’t have the guts) he’s a coward

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv Metatron? Who TF is that? Why does Paulogia need to in your opinion? Do you know what undisputed means? Hypothesis "proofs" are not evidence. Does your Metatron claim weak proof or solid evidence?

@@JasperOFlanigan-fb5lv Whether or not Christ lived is irrelevant, so no reason to discuss.

It wouldn't change any doctrine, right. Fundamentalists are not convincable. But I would like to know :-) So far we have this analogy to Homer, as there's this saying "we do not know whether Homer was a real person, but we do know that he was blind." And we can say "we do not know whether Jesus was a real person, but we do know that he never claimed to be God."

That was the great thing about Hitch. Say what you want about the guy, but he had lived a hell of a life and learned a thing or two, and he had a strategic supply of wit to go with his arsenal of lived experience that could scare off the army of several small countries. Some soft, sheltered, limp noodle like Turek never stood a chance in the face of Christopher Hitchens. Guy was a former communist who went to Cuba to work for Castro's cause, for crying out loud. Turek struggles with papercuts.

I know, right?!!!

@@ABARANOWSKISKI I message Frank on his facebook page. I asked when he was going to do this debate. that was two three weeks ago. No response to report to date.

@@andrewschafer8986 lol! You know, its funny, I was talking to my parents today about some of the absurd things we used to believe when we were Christians, a long time ago. We just laugh about it nowdays. I continue to be interested in religion debates, now as an atheist who just finds it interesting. Bart Ehrman is one of my favourite people to listen to! I love Bart.

So he decided to pass on information using scripture, written in a language few people understand, and expected it to be translated perfectly, and copied perfectly, and distributed throughout the entire world before everyone in it died. Sounds reasonable to me!

Interestingly he’s Eastern Orthodox now, and couldn’t remain an evangelical.

Something like that happened to me also, but I think it was a hallucination. It has only happened to me when I was extremely sleep deprived.

That property must have a high property value... and great weather! 😁

@@rembrandt972ifySeveral billions of dollars!

The obvious apologetics is that the people who didn't see had hardened hearts or were simply lying or too skeptical.

The Fatima incident should be instructive on how uncritical and unthinking many people can be. This is a an event where 10s of thousands of grown adults put their lives on pause and, sometimes at great expense of time and money, traveled to Fatima. And they did so based on NOTHING more than the words of 3 young children, who said their invisible, enchanted friend told them something magical would happen.

@@GameTimeWhy What about the billions of Roman Catholics in the rest of the world who would have welcomed a religious cosmic event - but didn’t because the were not subject to the same group hysteria.

@@venenareligioest410 catholics aren't really seen as Christian by evangelicals and some other groups. The in fighting between denominations is actually crazy.

@@GameTimeWhy THE original church was the Roman Catholic Church, all others, as I recall, were offshoots of Protestantism. All are equally flawed and false.

Actually, there are no contemporaneous, first-person, eyewitness accounts for any seminal event that spawned an established religion.

That's what christians do.

Not all.

Like most people, Christians project a lot and never do shadow work

Turek is not paid to respond, only to evangelize. Any honest facts are way lower on his list of priorities as a signee of a 'statement of faith.' His 'job' depends on opposing anything that doesn't promote belief (telling the truth is diametrically opposed to his job description if it goes against this edict). A list of all apologists who have signed a 'statement of faith' would be useful - a list of questionable truthfulness especially if their lips are moving.

Or perhaps a simple misrepresentation. Ehrman's comments seem like they would be hard to accidently misunderstand by a rational observer.

@@ron88303 I’m tryna be charitable and not assume malice. I have a bad habit of being rather uncharitable toward apologists so I’m tryna change that.

Welcome!

That changes everything

14ish percent was paulogia's response.

oops